Question(s) about communes, some theoretical, some practical:

[coalition_unwilling]

I read in one of the social histories of the American 60's that somewhere between 2-3 million Americans experimented\participated in the commune movement.

I figure there's bound to be some overlap between figures of that magnitude and membership on DU. With that in mind, I have a few questions:

Did you (do you) take part in the movement and, if so, for how long?

Was it (is it) a wothwhile endeavor and why or why not?

How did you (do you) get the ball rolling? By that, I mean, where did the land\"seed corn" come from on which the commune was established? Would some altruist (a la Robert Owen) have to buy a plot of land?

What was (is) done for healthcare? Thinking specifically of medical\dental emergencies, but also chronic conditions, nutrition and childbirth.

Finally, based on your expierience(s), reflections or both, would you recommend it as an alternative to the disaster of post-modern capitalism and why or why not?

[The_Commonist]

1. I lived in 2 communes for 4 years each.

And not in the 1960's!
The 2 communes I lived in were urban communes.

I lived in the Kerista commune in San Francisco from 1988-1992.
It was started in the mid-1950's, and began as a group of swingers.
It morphed over time, and in the early 1970's started practicing "orthodox religious polyfidelity."
That means that we started our own religion, and had lots of sex!
When I got there in 1988, it had started a successful computer company, and had become a "vision with a business."
Unfortunately, the business took its toll on the idealistic mission of the commune, and it imploded.
I joined this commune in my mid 20's, and it was my "college education.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerista

Post-Kerista, I went to live in the Ganas Community in New York from 1992-1996.
This community is still around and thriving.

http://www.ganas.org/

My 4 years there were my "graduate school."
I left Ganas because by that time, in my early 30's, I had never lived alone, and it was time to do that.
At this point, in my mid-40's I am a member of a couple of overlapping social communities, and have no need or desire to live in a commune again, although I am certainly a fan of the idea for those who it would be appropriate for.
In fact, I'm in the real estate business now, and one of the things I'm trying to figure out is a formula to make small-scale communal living viable within capitalism.

To answer your questions:

Yes... it was a worthwhile endeavor.
For me.
It's not for everyone.
Some people who pass through these types of communities never quite "get it" and never quite fit in and are made bitter by their experiences.
You have to give up a little of your old self to gain the benefits of a new self, and some people are just not able to do this.

How do you get the ball rolling?
You just do.
Don't wait for an angel to buy you land.
Start with like-minded people, and you'll figure out what is appropriate for you.
It starts with one, grows to two, becomes three, etc.

Healthcare?
Well, health insurance, naturally!
At least in those two, financially successful urban communes.

As far as your last question... certainly.
I think there will and should be a wave of this in the near future.
In fact, there is a healthy communal movement in this country now.
You don't have to start from scratch.
There are plenty of places where interested people can go to check out communal living first-hand, and learn from people who have been doing it for a long time.

Start by checking out the Intentional Communities website:

http://www.ic.org/

There are plenty of resources there.
You might want to go and visit one of the larger, more established communities, such as Ganas in New York or Twin Oaks in Virginia.
If you look through the Directory of communities on that website, you will see that there are hundreds of active communities, as well as many that are in the process of forming.
You may find that there's one in your area that you can visit, or that there are people in your area that are looking for you to help start something!

I have to go to work now, but if you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask...

Cheers!
The Commonist

[coalition_unwilling]

4. Thanks for the wonderful detail. I have been

thinking about it a lot lately, more from a sociological\anthropological point of view than from any personal desire to partake.

The "healthcare co-op" meme triggered the whole thouit process.

I also appreciate the urban iteration you quite rightly introduce; I was thinking more of the rural varietals when I posted.

[cali]

2. I originally came to Vermont because of associations with a commune

I lived there on and off for several years and am still involved with it. Madbrook Farm celebrates its 40th this year.

[coalition_unwilling]

6. Do you foresee the

commune movement growing in the coming years?

[cali]

11. nope. it's pretty insular

even though there's a lot of land, no one wants to see more houses built. There's the main house which is used for meetings and such and was the original farmhouse and then there's the houses of the people who live there or are members running up the main road which is about 2 miles.

[eShirl]

3. here's one founded in '71 that is still going

http://www.thefarmcommunity.com/

[handmade34]

5. check this link out

http://www.ic.org/

my answers to the questions:
Yes, in Michigan and Vermont on and off for 20 years. Yes it was worthwhile
Often, a more financially stable person would front the money for land (or share their land) Land can be bought cooperatively (more confusing legally)
I found people living communially are healthier, eat better, share and help each other. I had a wonderful midwife that accepted what the mother could afford...
Highly recommend it, if the individuals are mature and accepting

[coalition_unwilling]

8. It seems to me a logical push-back

to the suffering and exploitation of naked capitalism.

What would you say are the principal negatives, if any?

[handmade34]

9. ego satisfying the id

hmmmm. ...our inability to step outside of our personal comfort zone and be altruistic. I would like to think in an ideal world we could find a balance... out to work- more later.

[HamdenRice]

7. The most effective communes I've seen have been in rural China

I know, a lot of people think China is some sort of capitalist dictatorship that only pretends to be socialist. But one of the many weird jobs I've had was to work for an international organization that was advising China and Sichuan Province on environmental conservation issues.

Anyway, part of the job involved traveling around and getting introductions to local issues at the "county level" from county leaders and looking at their various development projects.

The degree to which China remains a socialist economy is pretty amazing -- and I'm not talking about "state capitalism." Almost all the land in China outside the cities was transferred to village communes back during the Mao era and they still own it and allocate it. Almost all the food is grown on commune land which allocates it to individual farm families according to the "family responsibility system." The communes also decide together to open small factories or to allocate land (rent it) to entrepreneurs. In the same way that an MBA grad in the US might start a small company, a patriotic young MBA in China from a village might go back and run in local elections for leadership of the commune, and then organize some new enterprise.

Without state sponsorship such as exists in China, it is difficult for a commune based economy to work, but once it's set up, it's very efficient and flexible.

Another country that successfully organized a significant amount of economic activity in communes was Botswana, but almost entirely in its biggest "village" and "tribe," Serowe. Although a mostly capitalist economy, Serowe's communes were still thriving into the 80s when I was there. The story is recounted in a great book by Bessie Head, "Serowe: Village of the Rain Wind."

[coalition_unwilling]

13. Since you bring up China, I'll note Mao's

aphorism (loosely translated) that "all oppression breeds resistance."

I expected (and still expect) to see a resurgence in communalism in the U.S. in response to the fraying of the safety net, coupled with the disaster the Masters of the Universe have wrought.

Do you foresee the same, or do you think the impetus for communal living in the U.S. lies mostly outside the economic spectrum?

Thanks for introducing the non-Western iterations, btw. I'm not much of an Africanist (except for the brutal and deeply saddening legacy of European colonialism there), but there are no doubt lessons to be learned from indigenous peoples' forms of social organization.

[Mari333]

10. I lived in 2

we were young, and sort of stupid. We argued a lot. One person demanded that we dont have anything in the kitchen except for macrobiotic foodstuffs. Another person chastised everyone else for not adhering to his political beliefs. Everyone seemed to have an agenda to promote. It was a cheap way to live, I admit. But we all butted heads a bit much.
I will admit I dont miss sleeping on a mattress on the floor with an India throw tossed onto it.
Im sure there were communes that worked well, my experience is that we were just a bunch of kids who didnt know what we were doing, in retrospect.

[coalition_unwilling]

14. How long did you experiment with the

lifestyle? And was there anything specific that led to your disillusionment or just general fatigue?

[Blue_In_AK]

12. I lived in a communal setting in the spring and summer of 1971

in Takilma, Oregon, and later in a canyon down by Death Valley in a teepee that I sewed myself on a treadle sewing machine. I really could write a book about that whole adventure. After that I lived "normally" in Seal Beach for a few months, then moved back up to Bolinas north of SF where I lived with four other roommates and my new baby in a large house. We didn't call ourselves a commune, but that's basically how it worked.

I wouldn't trade those times for anything. I am proud of my hippie heritage. :hippie: :smoke: :)



ed. As for where that land in Takilma came from, I believe the technical term is we were all "squatting." I believe it may have been national forest land. Where we were in the Panamint Mountains was an old abandoned mine site. Health care was nonexistent.

My child was born at home in Bolinas in the summer of 1972. She was delivered by a midwife who worked out of the Pt. Reyes doctor's office.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. I think it is just an amazing statistic that as

many as 2-3 million Americans participated to some extent. And a stat that gives me hope for the future of the American experiment, even when times seem darkest.

You should definitely be proud of your "hippie heritage"! To those who tell me the 60s went "too far," I reply that they didn't go far enough! And even still the amount of freedom and equality and human possibility they unleashed is simply awe-inspiring beyond mere words' ability to convey.

[mudplanet]

16. Go visit any Catholic Worker house

[Le Taz Hot]

17. Interesting that you should mention 60's communes.

I just finished watching Ken Burns' documentary on the Shakers and, apart from the religious aspect, they actually had a pretty damned good thing going. They basically made everything themselves, from furniture to canned goods to bee products, just really quite a diversity of products for their own use and for sale. Each member of the community rotated every month or so so everyone would be able to do all jobs if needed. Of course, industrialization and modern conveniences sewed the seeds of their downfall, but I think the overall concept is still pretty solid. You might want to do some research on them if you're looking for ideas.

[izzybeans]

18. Benjamin Zablocki is a sociologist who has studied them in detail far more than most

He's works may be a good reference.http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~zablocki/

The link for the Urban Communes study on the left links to publications from the study. It began in the early 70s and is ongoing.