George Orwell on Child Raping Artists

[paulsby]

"If Shakespeare returned to the earth to-morrow, and if it were found that his favourite recreation was raping little girls in railway carriages, we should not tell him to go ahead with it on the ground that he might write another King Lear. " - George Orwell


i happened on this quote while at the following : http://volokh.com/2009/09/28/roman-polanski-george-orwell-and-salvador-dali/#respond

it's certainly apt to all the polanski wanking been going on here.

[depakid]

1. Aside from the fact that he hasn't been a serial rapist

your quote would have some merit- but as the facts actually are- it doesn't apply.

Of course, facts seem to be a dying "art" these days when they get in the way of agendas.

[pnwmom]

2. Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

We have no idea if he raped other young girls. But the one conviction is sufficient.

But I agree with you that he can't be compared to Shakespeare. Shakespeare is one of the greats in the history of English literature and drama, whose gifts have been recognized for hundreds of years.

Polanski is a talented film director of such memorable movies as Rosemary's Baby.

[depakid]

3. See- now that shows a major point I've been addressing-

One that goes to America's behavior that led up to the war and Guantanamo and Abu hraib, et al. It has its roots in the sort of lust for vengeance that's been on display here on these threads (and many, many similar ones re: other cases).

Many aren't concerned with facts or any other consideration that gets in the way of satisfying the primitive impulse.

There's a case in Australia where a guy from Alabama probably murdered his wife while diving on the barrier reef. The prosecution believed that it didn't have the evidence to convict the guy- so they accepted a lesser plea which landed him a six months sentence.

Alabama authorities were appalled (based partially on the guy's behavior) -and so they're out to prosecute him after he's deported even though they have no case under the law, because he committed no crime in their jurisdiction.

They just have to have that pound of flesh. Facts and law are as unimportant there as consideration for the victim's family or other matters are in this case.

[pnwmom]

4. I have no idea what part of my post you're referring to.

I said that his conviction of the ONE crime is sufficient. And, not that it particularly matters, but I disagreed with you that it is possible to know for a FACT that he never raped other young women. (And you just said how important it is to rely only on facts.)

Finally, I agreed with you that he can't be compared to William Shakespeare.

And now you're talking about Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and a case in Australia. Kind of a stretch.

[depakid]

6. The OP's quote discusses serial rapists

you imply that he might be one- hence the connection to absent facts, etc.

[pnwmom]

9. He might be one. It is a FACT that we can't prove a negative, isn't it?

It is logically impossible to know for a fact that he never raped another young woman -- we can't even say, in his case, that he was never involved with another young woman. (Kinski was only 15 when she was involved with him.)

But it also doesn't matter, because he admitted to raping the 13 year old in the current case.

[JackRiddler]

31. So how do we know you're not a serial rapist too?

Just strictly applying your logic.

[Hannah Bell]

5. chinatown is closer to shakespeare.

[pnwmom]

13. Chinatown doesn't come close to Shakespeare. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

14. in your opinion.

[pnwmom]

20. You think they're going to be reading Chinatown several hundred years from now?

Sure they will.

:sarcasm:

[Threedifferentones]

23. You think how long people have been reading something proves its worth?

If you feel you can prove Shakespeare's works are better than Polanski's, perhaps the literature isn't helping you as much as you think...

[pnwmom]

25. Shakespeare's works have withstood the test of time.

Polanski's have withstood the test of Hollywood.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. You are both far off base, as Shakespeare was a writer

and Polanski did NOT write Chinatown. Robert Towne wrote it. So if they are reading Chinatown in the future, they will be reading the works of Robert Towne, not Roman Polanski.

[mitchum]

27. It's much closer to Raymond Chandler than Shakespeare

[Zomby Woof]

33. Exactly

[proteus_lives]

7. he fucked Nastassja Kinski when she was 15 and he was an old man.

13 year-old, 15-year old. That's a starting to look like a pattern. I wonder how many other young girls he promised, "I'll make you a star."

He's a kiddie raper. Accept it and get over yourself.

[nosmokes]

10. Kinski was past age of consent so there was nothing illegal there,FWIW.

[proteus_lives]

11. Ok, because there's nothing wrong with a old man fucking a 15 year-old.

He's a swell guy. :eyes:

[pnwmom]

12. Not that that mattered to him, obviously. But he had sex with a 13 year old

and a 15 year old, so I don't think it would be a stretch to think he could have been involved with other underage women. (And 15 is underage in most states of the US.)

[Hannah Bell]

16. most of the world = pervs. age of consent.

[seabeyond]

29. he had sex with a 13 year old.... raped. she said no. carry on

lol

hate seeing had sex when it is rape

[paulsby]

36. pretend that polanski was the CEO of a major corporation

who plied a 13 yr old girl with quaaludes and alcohol and then raped her (and note she repeatedly said no, etc. it wasn't MERELY a statutory rape), pled guilty, and then fled to a non-extradition country to avoid imprisonment.

and while in that country, he was celebrated by the business community, and continued to do business deals and make a fortune while he did so.

he was feted at business conferences.

that's polanski. the only difference is he is a director, not a CEO/Businessman.

i suggest that if he was not POLANSKI and was involved in the "evil corporate world" all the sympathizers and apologists for polanski would be singing a different tune.

fuck roman polanski. he did a nasty evil crime and justice demands he serve some time

[Odin2005]

26. He had sex with a 15yo actress.

Yes, it was technically "legal", but was it right? Fuck no! It shows a pattern of targeting teen girls. How many more girls has he raped and paid off to keep silent? How many times did he run off to Cambodia to screw teen prostitutes?

Child rapists are like serial killers, you have to lock them up for life.

[proteus_lives]

8. His defenders won't listen.

You and Orwell nail the point but rape's not much of crime to them.

[Hannah Bell]

15. his detractors could play the villagers in Frankstein. a bigger bunch of knee-jerk, mindless crap

i've not read recently. it's impossible even to state or question the bare facts without being called a nambla apologist, or without having the respondents' words & ideas put in one's mouth.

mob mentality.

[madmusic]

18. Ironic that Orwell also wrote 1984 nt

[proteus_lives]

32. You're defending rape. There's no way around it.

He commited rape and you don't want to to go jail for it.

I'm ok with being part of the mob on this one. Why? Because it's a black and white issue.

[madmusic]

17. If anyone wants to read the quote in context

http://www.george-orwell.org/Benefit_of_Clergy:_Some_Notes_on_Salvador_Dali/0.html

But it doesn't apply. No one says Polanski should "go ahead with it" again.

[Hannah Bell]

19. how so? the only people i see making the case that "polanski is an

artist, so he should be allowed to rape" - are his detractors. They repeatedly *claim* other people believe this, but in fact, they're the only ones saying it.

Nor is anyone telling Polanski to keep on raping so he can create further films.

[pnwmom]

21. No one's saying he should be allowed to rape, true. But plenty here are

saying that he shouldn't be punished for the rape he did commit, apparently because he made some good films in the interim.

[Hannah Bell]

22. link me to one post claiming polanski shouldn't be extradited

"because he made some good films in the interim".

[pnwmom]

24. Then why shouldn't he be extradited? n/t

[mitchum]

28. Since Polanski is a middlebrow artist, perhaps he can go to a medium security prison?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. William Shakespeare? The child pornographer?

I can't believe people still watch that trash.

[Echo In Light]

35. POLANSKI!!!