Do you think it ok to get a Lap dance at a strip club?

[TheCoxwain]

prompted by this thread on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6653963


I would like to know where does DU stand on this

[Kalyke]

1. I'm guessing only men are voting for the totally OK (regardless

of marital/relationship status.)

If my husband had it done, I'd divorce him. Period.

[uncle ray]

4. you are wrong. n/t.

[seabeyond]

8. good of you to tell her how she is suppose to feel. nt

[Kalyke]

9. You're male.

???

[inna]

153. how do you know "she's wrong"??

?

[TheCoxwain]

6. My wife's favorite line .. "All men are bastards" except her dad.

:rofl:

I think it is cheating too..

[seabeyond]

11. i am a tit for tat kinda gal. tell me what the rules are. free for all marriage, works both ways

that is all.

[Kalyke]

14. Me, too.

If it doesn't bother the spouse in someone else's marraige, I don't give a flip.

But, for mine (and for most of the women in my friendship circle), lap dances are automatic "outta here's."

[seabeyond]

16. my point is, if he is gonna play, so will i. he wont want that play, cause

i will probably have more fun

but i agree

doesnt sound like a marriage to me.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

37. I agree...but only because you said "tit"

hee...hee...hee

I'm sorry. Isn't this the Lounge?

[seabeyond]

40. is lounge material and taking it as such. BUT do i get my private lapdancer, guys?

cause i am home along. i do know some men that would say yes to coming over her and doing a lapdance for me. and i bet i wont have to spend any money

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

43. Recalling an Elaine Boozler bit...

Talking about guys cruising past a girl and calling out, "Hey Baby, get on in" as though she might actually do it.

The reason why women don't do that? Because they know full well that the guy would get in.

[seabeyond]

47. so, does your girlfriend/wife get her lapdances too? nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

49. You know, she's never made a request for one...

One those Mars/Venus issues, perhaps?

[Seldona]

61. Is it ok to give one?

Why not address the issue at it's core? Is it okay for these woman to work in strip clubs because it is 'easier' to make money than a 9-5 job? Interesting angle you chose to look at.

[liberalhistorian]

142. It's okay for women to do that IF that's what they've freely

and voluntarily chosen. Not all women who do that are exploited, or doing it involuntarily, despite what militant 80's-style feminists might demand that we think. Some actually want to do it. But if they're doing it under financial and/or personal duress, then that's a different story entirely.

[EOTE]

221. Financial duress isn't ok?

So it's not OK if a woman takes a job at a strip club because she can't find work elsewhere? Would you prefer she be impoverished or die of hunger? Right now, I'm working my current job because of financial duress as if I didn't have it, I wouldn't have any money. Is it not OK for me to be working at where I work because it's due to financial duress? I'd argue that the bulk of jobs that we take are due to financial duress.

[Kalyke]

314. I was fairly impoverished and I didn't opt for stripping.

Although, I was asked by a lot of men why I didn't.

I had a dear friend in college who was a stripper. She became drug-addled, depressed and let the men in her life run all over her because that was the way she was treated.

I chose to go a bit hungry and keep some dignity. :shrug:

[EOTE]

340. That still doesn't answer my question.

And that you don't think that one can be a stripper and still have dignity seems rather judgmental to me. If I had the body to become a stripper, I'd do it in a flash. I would never look down on a stripper or sex worker because of the line of work they chose.

The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people who have a rather specific skills set. If I wasn't allowed to work in IT, I don't know if I'd be able to find employment elsewhere. I don't particularly like my job, but I'd be damned upset if people told me that I couldn't work IT because I was under financial duress. If my job were to become illegal, I wouldn't be under financial duress, I'd be homeless and probably dead within a short time. That argument that someone shouldn't do something because it's the only choice they have is probably one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. So I guess you'd prefer the people to simply live in abject poverty or not live at all? Seems ridiculously foolish to me.

[TexasObserver]

344. Some wisely choose to strip.

It's certainly not for everyone, but some women love to strip. They enjoy taking their clothes off. They get off to doing it. They enjoy the money they make, the conditions under which they make them, and the life they live. Yes, there are always customers they hate, but there are usually customers they love, too.

I know a former stripper who went to college, got her degree, got a teaching certificate, learned to sign, and has worked for many years teaching deaf children, as well as getting married and having two kids of her own.

It seems that your stripper friend and mine are not very similar.

I conclude that strippers are likely to be good members of society.

[lildreamer316]

357. Excuse me. I chose stripping as my profession; and I was not impoverished at the time.

I still CHOOSE it.
I have all the dignity that I started with; thank you very much.

[TorchTheWitch]

373. I have more

The one thing I'm really grateful about doing this job is that it's taught me not to be a doormat. I'm one of those that has been greatly empowered by doing it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

398. So if they're under financial duress...

... they should wait tables instead?

[MineralMan]

68. I agree. It's cheating. If you wouldn't do it with your wife

sitting next to you, then it's wrong.

[HughBeaumont]

89. A lap dance, where you're forbidden to touch the stripper, is "cheating"?

:wtf:

Wow, that's . . . an astounding leap.

And yeah, I'd have my wife next to me and she wouldn't care. In fact, she'd probably want one. It's just not really that big a deal.

[MineralMan]

119. OK. I stated my opinion. You stated yours.

Am I keeping you from having a lap dance? No? OK, then.

I consider it cheating. Same as making out with someone who is not my wife. I wouldn't do it. Same as online sex chat. I wouldn't do it.

As far as I know, you can do whatever the hell you want.

[seabeyond]

123. i was gonna say, and online sex talk or telephone sex talk, clothed

but you know

i would be mighty pissed

but then hubby owuld be pissed too if i did it

gotta marry a mate that sees eye to eye on this.

he doesnt want it any more than i do.
nor do either of us want it. to play in it or other play in it

so works

edit... spelling but more.... i need to walk away from computer. too many days on.

[MineralMan]

145. Yup. Such things depend on the people in the relationship.

I'm old-fashioned, I guess. For me, marriage is a bond, both physical and emotional. I can't imagine myself getting a lap dance from some stranger. Seems silly to me. Apparently, though, others feel differently. Vive la difference, I suppose.

[HughBeaumont]

133. Except that it's not the same as making out with someone who isn't your wife.

You aren't DOING anything except SITTING THERE.

Oh my GOD.

[MineralMan]

151. You do as you think best, OK. All I ask as that you let me

do the same. For me, it's cheating. You do what you wish. I can see no point in arguing about it. What you do is approximately as much of interest to me as what my neighbor is having for lunch.

[Missy Vixen]

147. You're having a sexual experience with someone else

Without getting the thread locked -- isn't it primarily a sexual experience?

[MineralMan]

155. Of course it is. What would be the point, otherwise.

I'm surprised at the results of this thread, frankly.

[redqueen]

166. LOL

I'm surprised that you're surprised. :P

[seabeyond]

170. i am a fuckin prude cause i dont go in strip clubs and get lapdances. i already have boobs

i dont want to play with someone elses.

bah hahahahaa

i gotta get to work

off computer. off

[redqueen]

179. Just more of that conditioning / peer pressure if you ask me.

But nobody did, so... :P

:hi:

[seabeyond]

182. wink

outta here. lol

[Missy Vixen]

185. So, again

If you're married, you're having a sexual experience with someone else. Isn't the definition of marriage (for those who aren't polyamorous or have an open marriage,) NOT having sex with other people?

Doesn't matter if you're fully dressed or not. It's sex. Does his wife have the same freedom? He'd better accept it with the same equanimity, or he's a hypocrite AND a cheater.

[MineralMan]

207. That's about it, as I see it.

I wonder if some folks here aren't doing more posturing than anything else...

[redqueen]

163. Some say it's just 'entertainment'... so... maybe for some it's not?

I dunno... makes no sense at all to me to think of it as anything but a sexual experience.

[MineralMan]

175. To me, either. Pretending that strip clubs are not places that

revolve merrily around sex seems specious. Of course they are. Having some young woman make sexual posturings on and around you also is sexual. I don't do sexual stuff with women who aren't my wife. I thought that was the agreement I said at our wedding.

Saying, "It's not sex" seems to me to be a rationalization.

I had a long argument with someone once who thought that going to The Bunny Ranch in Nevada wasn't cheating, because prostitution was legal in that county in Nevada. Never did make the guy understand. I did ask if he had told his wife about his visit. He hadn't. No way!

Funny.

[redqueen]

214. LOL... speciousness and rationalization indeed.

Least that's how I see it.

[HughBeaumont]

167. Eh. Not especially.

I get aroused by one woman. That woman has seen lapdances, has received male lapdances (from all nude dancers) and doesn't think it's a big deal, just as I don't. We view it as fun. I mean, nothing's getting unzipped or taken off on your part, so no real sexual contact is being made.

[seabeyond]

171. then have your fun. and good for you all. i think it is nifty. but why put people down that

dont wanna?

why am i being told i am a prude and sexually repressed cause i dont want one

[HughBeaumont]

189. I'm putting people down who think it's "cheating".

I realize there are people who aren't interested in porno or anything that involves taking clothes off. You know, that's great and all. I never used the word "prude" either. I am I, he is he, you are you and all that and all that.

But . . . to call it cheating when there's not really anything of any significance going on, isn't that insulting the profession? Some dancers do this to feed their families or put themselves through school. A few DUers are involved in the business. If there's one thing I DON'T respect and I'm sure some workers in the business wouldn't, it's equating getting a lapdance with prostitution.

It's just a leap.

I dunno, maybe having two relatives in the business makes me a little sensitive to this issue . . .

[seabeyond]

200. but why arent they allowed to think it is, .... in their view, in therir marriage

and say, cool you dont. why must they think like you, not a deal.

i bet having two relatives makes a difference

but computer sex.... no clothes come off. some will think not cheating. many will. many will be hurt. feel betrayed. a feeling the same as if the person cheated.

another person may not feel that

how can you tell the person they arent allowed to feel the pain or betrayal.

you cant

[HughBeaumont]

226. People are allowed to think the wealthy are overtaxed.

Doesn't make it correct.

Lapdancers, BY definition, are not prostitutes. Equating it with cheating, as in the act of getting a prostitute with the intention of having intercourse, is an opinion, which they ARE entitled to. They're not entitled to their own facts.

And cybersex . . .. depends on borderlines. It sometimes involves eventually hooking up with whoever you're cybering with. You cross THAT line, THEN it's cheating. For me personally, there's really no point in doing that, speaking from a safety and security standpoint. I think people who do that may need counseling, because it's easy to get caught up in that sort of thing.

[redqueen]

231. But HB... some of them ARE prostitutes... and some of them DO

touch, and grind, on the customers.

So please don't pretend all stripping is exactly like the high-class stuff that your friends or relatives engage in. Cause that simply is not the case.

[HughBeaumont]

243. They asked about "clubs", which I took to be "legal clubs".

See, the kind of "clubs" in THAT paradigm where you're getting oral or handjobs are the ones that get raided by vice squads. Cleveland had a problem with that sort of thing a few years back. Stay away from those unless you want to end up being chased by the local news' "I Team".

[redqueen]

247. Please.

I'm not sure what percentage of clubs have prostitutes working there... or what percentage allows the dancers to actually grind on the customers... but I doubt it's some miniscule amount.

And I don't go to any of them, so I have nothing to worry about.

[HughBeaumont]

260. It's not, and that's a problem.

Certainly any industry, especially the sex industry needs some sort of respectability. But that's not what we're talking about here.

There's mere grinding, which I don't see any big deal in, and there's prostitution, where unclothed naughty bits are being bumped, touched, groped and/or inserted. A lapdance isn't sex. It's a dance, one where the subject legally cannot reciprocate. And in that definition, I say "What's the problem"?

[redqueen]

261. Well for me, grinding is a problem. It's pretty much dry humping, IMO.

Obviously YMMV.

[seabeyond]

262. you say "What's the problem"? there is none for you. others have a problem. THAT

should not become your problem either

[seabeyond]

see, you are deciding the boundaries, equally. what is healthy, what is not

but they are yours and ok there even to the point of saying need counseling. easy to get caught up.....

well

some people think it is easy for a mate to get caught up in the strippin to do to the point of unhealthy.

also could depend on how one defines cheating. a betrayal. you wont see one thing as betrayal as another would see it.

you and your wife KNOW it is not cheating for YOU.

[Caliman73]

282. Cheating does not need to be Sexual infidelity

Cheating is what the couple defines it to be. Cheating is a garbage word that implies breaking a marital vow, mostly the vow of exclusivity and fidelity. Some couples define cheating as having any type of contact with the opposite sex. That is their rule. I don't agree with it, but that is how they define it. Other people who are in open or poly relationships can also have a definition of what "cheating" is despite the fact that they routinely have other sexual relationships. There is no one definition although having sexual contact with another person and hiding that contact from your committed partner is generally accepted as a definition of cheating and being titillated sexually by a stripper is most definitely "sexual activity". If you and your partner participate in that activity together and have an understanding that it is acceptable in your relationship, then you are not cheating.

Cheating is not necessarily about the specific activity involved more than the intention and the deceit. Your relatives in the business are doing their jobs. Unless they are specifically targeting men in committed relationships for the purpose of causing them to be unfaithful, then they aren't doing anything wrong. The person who is cheating is the person who is making the conscious decision to seek gratification outside their relationship knowing that the activity is not acceptable to their partner. That person is the cheater, not the professional and not another party who might have been deceived as well.

[Kalyke]

302. I'll agree with this.

It's inter-marital.

And, you're not a prude or sexually repressed if you and your partner define it in a way that (apparently a lot of men on this board) think is "silly."

[spiritual_gunfighter]

418. You aren't a prude or sexually repressed for not wanting one

I am a guy in a committed relationship and I dont want one either. I am far from being a prude but I think being sexually aroused by someone that isn't my girlfriend is cheating. My girlfriend satisfies me sexually I dont feel the need to look elsewhere.

[seabeyond]

419. my hubby and i love

our sex life. we both are doing exactly what we want, enjoy each other, satisfy each other. i dont know why people make that a bad thing cause we arent doing what they do.

people feel "sorry" for the guy like he is deprived. no deprived. hubby thrilled 15 yrs later not only still doing it, doing it with gusto. lol

he ... does not feeling sorry, for himself.

thanks for confirmation

one size truly does not fit all and glad reading thru this thread getting that message.

good to know.

[lumberjack_jeff]

399. Isn't a romance novel? n/t

[seabeyond]

401. no. nt

[Missy Vixen]

420. Have you ever read a romance novel?

I write them. I don't believe I've ever read a plot in which the hero decides to allow another woman to grind on him, etcetera, then tries to pass it off as "entertainment".

[girl gone mad]

412. Different people have different opinions on the matter.

There is no right or wrong, but it's best to let your SO know where you stand on these issues before you get too serious.

I used to work in strip clubs and several of the dancers told me they would kill a boyfriend/husband if they ever caught him getting a lap dance. This came up a lot because the guy I was dating used to come in and I would buy him lap dances while he waited for me to get finished. He was a guy I always felt very secure with, I never worried that he would cheat on me.

On the other side of the coin, there was a married man who would come in all the time and he just couldn't handle himself with the women. He took it so seriously and really thought the strippers wanted him. I used to wish his wife would put her foot down, but chances are she was just glad to have him out of the house. If I was married to a man like that, no way would I want him getting lap dances.

[seabeyond]

415. would kill a boyfriend/husband if they ever caught him getting a lap dance

isnt that funny and interesting.

i love all these posts. very insightful.

[DutchLiberal]

379. Your wife is reading DU, right?

[wicket]

75. I'm female and I voted totally ok

:shrug:

on edit - I'm engaged

[HughBeaumont]

94. THANK you.

Absolutely ridiculous that people are equating this with cheating. You're fully clothed, for Christ's sake.

[Myrina]

241. me too ...

.... who gives a rip, as long as i'm the one he comes home to at the end of the night? :shrug:

[wicket]

280. It's like my dad always said...

"It don't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home!" ;)

[blueamy66]

296. Me too

I'm engaged and don't have an issue with it.

It is not cheating.

I wouldn't like it if my guy went regularly, but once in a while...not a problem.

[seabeyond]

334. so that is your boundary and boundary you have. too often is too much

a little.... ok.

[Luciferous]

433. Me too

and I've been married for 6 years.

[rd_kent]

76. Make sure he know that's how you feel about it.

[Kalyke]

93. He does.

[Toasterlad]

121. Your Poor Husband.

I can't imagine being around someone as sexually repressed - and repressive - as you all the time. Have you ever even made love with the lights on?

[seabeyond]

127. eeeew. i couldnt imagine being around anyone as ugly as you either.

personality. obviously, dont know how ugly you are physically

[Toasterlad]

128. Pretty Ugly.

But WAY more fun than you and your prissy friend.

[seabeyond]

129. snort..... nt

[Kalyke]

206. I don't find being disrespected all that much fun.

Maybe your spouse/partner does, but I prefer to give all my best to my guy and want him to do the same.

[Toasterlad]

229. Who Said It Was Fun Being Disrespected?

If your idea of being disrespected is being reminded that your husband is a sexual being who is biologically attracted to other women besides you, you have an extremely low threshold of disrespect. I can only imagine what it's like for that poor man. "You looked at that billboard with the girl in the bikini for two whole seconds! You don't respect me!"

Poor guy.

[Kalyke]

238. See... more shit you don't know.

In this thread, I said that I'm not so stupid to believe that people (women, too, dearie) don't see other people they're attracted to. In fact, lad, I even used an advertisement as an example.

However, the disrespect comes from PURPOSEFULLY seeking out to go to a club where the ONLY THING you're there FOR is to look for women to be attracted to.

Two totally different things.

[Toasterlad]

249. Yes, They Are Different

But not TOTALLY different. Your underlying insecurity is still the issue.

You are free to set boundaries for your husband, and if he accepts them, he should not cross them. If he is okay with not going to strip clubs because you say he can't - even if he wants to - that's fine. Sad, but fine. But saying you'd divorce a man for a lap dance seems pretty sexually repressive to me.

My professional opinion? You have issues.

P.S. I'm curious...are you one of those women who gets upset with her husband for even looking twice at another woman, but who goes out with the girls every now and then to a male strip club just to have some girly fun? Or are you more the "No other sexual interests for either one of us!" types?

[Kalyke]

267. Not sure why it's considered "insecure" for a woman to not like

another woman grinding on her husband. I dare say the vast majority of women wouldn't like it.

Oh - and what's your profession? If it's in the psychiatric field, I'd say you need to give up Freud. He was a sexist bastard. Accusing me of insecurities seems more akin to trying to convince me that I'm wrong because men are just men and they're supposed to act this way. Not true. Men maybe need to do a little growing up on their end, as a whole (not all men, of course. Some are grown and act like it).

And, I have never, ever been to a strip club of any variety. In fact, I've only seen one male stripper at a bachelorette party, but I wasn't married at the time (nor dating anyone). Hell, I've never even been to a Hooters because I find it demeaning to women.

[Kalyke]

199. Poor you for your conditioning.

I'm no prude in our bedroom, not that it's any of your business.

Poor you for thinking you can't have a full, healthy, fulfilling and fun sex life with your partner without ever stepping foot in a strip club.

:P

[seabeyond]

202. an often used jab at your sexuality to degrade. nt

[Toasterlad]

225. That's A Pretty Giant Leap In Logic.

However, I'll overlook it, since you're obviously distracted by pent-up sexual frustration.

[Kalyke]

244. You, my dear, had the giant leap in logic, not I.

You think that because I don't want my husband to get dry humped by a half-naked woman in a strange bar that I'm a prude in the bedroom (or the pool or the lake or the back deck or the kitchen - where, incidentally, our daughter was conceived - or the living room floor or the car).

You, however, would be fundamentally, completely and totally incorrect.

[Toasterlad]

251. TMI! TMI!

[Kalyke]

268. Not in the least.

Unless, you know, you're sexually repressed.

:eyes:

[Toasterlad]

281. Touche.

[Name removed]

431. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalhistorian]

136. I agree that it's wrong if you're married or attached,

and hubby would have a HUGE problem dealing with me if he were to do it (which he wouldn't, I know), but what if you're not married or in a committed relationship? Whose freaking business is it then? NO ONE'S. Period.

[Missy Vixen]

138. If you're married, it's cheating

You're having what amounts to a sexual encounter with someone else.

Let's put it this way: What would the reaction of husbands on DU be if their wives received the same from a male? If he's okay with it, as seabeyond says below, it's okay for everyone.

[seabeyond]

146. except that poster couldnt commit. nah.... just wouldnt happen. difference between

the sexes. lol bah hahhahaha

my hubby just knows.... i could

tit for tat bubba

[TexasObserver]

255. And Mrs. Vitter wasn't going to put up with adultery. Until she did.

Maybe you'd divorce him, or maybe you'd wouldn't.

[Ignis]

257. "If my husband had it done, I'd divorce him." -- Odd passive voice.

It's not like a stripper is going to come along and force your husband to accept a lap dance. That's not really the business model for lap dances. Your husband will have to actively seen out a lap dance, and then pay for it.

Also, I hope you warn your husband beforehand: Do X, Y, or Z and I'll divorce you. As long as couples are 100% above-board about their sexual/sensual preferences, it shouldn't be an issue.

[Kalyke]

286. He knows.

[lefthandedlefty]

305. My wife and I have gone to strip clubs together

She loves getting lap dances as much as I do and no the women are not being exploited they make good money and seem to enjoy what they are doing.People working in fast food are the ones being exploited.

[Kalyke]

312. I don't find women remotely attractive.

Why would I want them rubbing up against me? I think I'd probably vomit, to be quite honest. Most of the women who strip here are drug-addled skanks.

If your wife likes it, fine. I don't.

But, I do agree about fast food workers.

[Taverner]

331. I'm glad I'm not married to you - that's all I gotta say

There's a reason I usually ended the date right then and there if my date said she was a Fundie Christian, Fundie Muslim, or Fundie Anything...

[TorchTheWitch]

371. You're really wrong

There are quite a large number of women here who give/get lapdances enjoy going to strip clubs and see no problem with it at all... many of whom are in relationships.

[sendero]

372. What a lucky guy he..

.. isn't.

If I were married to a woman like you, I'd WANT a divorce, and BTW I've never had a lap dance.

[DutchLiberal]

378. Somehow, I don't think he would regret that.

[rd_kent]

411. I feel sorry for your husband. Its obvious by yours posts that you have cuckolded him.

What a shame.........to use sex as a weapon in your relationship....just a shame.....

[rucky]

2. My wife gave me a $20 to get one at a bachelor party.

I spent it on tequila shots, but it was the thought that counted.

[seabeyond]

7. that's cute. nt

[BlooInBloo]

3. I support all adult women's right to freely choose what they do with their own bodies.

[Kalyke]

13. That wasn't the question... but OK.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Lap dances require two. If it's ok for one of the pair, it's ok for the other.

[Kalyke]

17. It's may not be OK with one of the pair's wife, though.

That was the question - mostly.

My husband's free to go get one, but, if he does, then he loses his family.

:shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

21. Sure. That applies to either of the pair.

[Kalyke]

32. True.

[TommyO]

51. It's so nice that you have him on such a short leash

yes dear, OK dear, what ever you say dear.

[seabeyond]

65. or could be... she asks no more from him than what he asks of her. level playing field

altruistic. healthy/balanced marriage. respectful of one anothers needs wants desire.

or the stupid male comment to goad.... on a leash buddy, as you gulp some beer

[Kalyke]

70. Funny, he doesn't consider it a leash.

He considers it respectful.

Glad I'm not married to you. Of course, I never would be.

[TommyO]

90. I'm glad I'm not married to you either, my husband wouldn't appreciate it.

bigamy and all of that.

[seabeyond]

92. ahhhhh, then that was one of those women/women jabs.... i see. lol. nt

[Kalyke]

96. Why does your profile say you're male?

[seabeyond]

100. male that likes BIG wesco BOOTS. lol. whatever those are. lol. nt

[TommyO]

102. Think about it

I'm male, I have a husband. I'm sure you can figure it out.

[seabeyond]

104. gotcha. my bad. go back to the beer. nt

[TommyO]

105. No beer here, but thanks for being a judgmental little poster

[seabeyond]

what? me? no way. i am half teasing. you are the obnoxious one talking about leashes. nt

[TommyO]

Just responding to an obnoxious poster myself

[seabeyond]

113. no way. she is talking her expectation in HER marriage. that isnt obnoxious. your leash

comment is.

talking about HER marriage.... not yours.

[HughBeaumont]

108. It's like, some people need to leave the cave. Holy shit.

First we're making a canyon leap in equating lapdances with infidelity and now this.

Amazing and astounding.

[Kalyke]

*I* equate it with cheating because it would hurt just the same.

Sorry, you can't seem to grasp emotional distress.

[HughBeaumont]

130. A LAPDANCE ISN'T CHEATING!!!!

You cannot touch the dancer. They cannot touch you. You can only sit there or you get tossed instantly. They can only grind. There is no attraction, physical or emotional connection (unless you're one of these delusional dudes who think there is one). It's just business.

I'm just not getting how it's cheating. That's just a leap and fanatically silly to call it that. I mean, is looking at porno cheating too?

[Kalyke]

159. It is to me.

You're not married to me; therefore, it shouldn't matter to you.

However, as to why I think it is cheating: it *is* a physical connection - even if you aren't touching - because you're using another woman to satisfy your sexual desires.

If you can't have your desires satisfied by your spouse, then you need to talk.

I'm certainly no prude, but I do find it disrespectful of my vows to have your winkie whacked off through slight rubbing contact by another woman.

[HughBeaumont]

345. I'm . . . just having fun, not having sex. At ALL.

My "winkie" .. . huh? . . . isn't getting touched or really even stimulated much. At all.

And the wife satisfies me just fine, thanks. :shrug:

[seabeyond]

347. listening to you hugh

and i really do find this so interesting and glad people are talking

but with you

there isnt a big deal in it. you say you arent getting much out of it, and just fun. wife satisfies you and i am sure you convey that feeling to her, hence why she feels as she does. secure. because of how you experience it

can you see, from soem of the posts here alone, how other approach it differently and maybe why some people dont see it as you do

actually, i have come to really appreciate where you are coming from

that is ALWAYS good to me

[HughBeaumont]

353. Check this out -

When the wife and her girls went to Windsor for a Bachelorette party, they took PICTURES of inside the male club they went in. I'm like "who DOES that"? And then I look at the photos and there's all these mulleted tanned steroiders with banana hammocks - TOTALLY not her type at all - and we just laughed it up.

It's what it's meant to be - fun. It isn't like there's anything happening beyond what's legally allowed or going HOME with them or anything.

Maybe if one experienced cheating in a previous relationship, they'd take a hard-line stance out of fear it would become habitual - which does happen. There is such a thing as over the top though.

I dunno, I just couldn't have a boot on my head like that.

Then again, I guess it depends on what kind of boot we're talking about. :evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

356. cute....

a story. my 11 yr old having me fix his football pants. i see him reading you post. lol. you arent suppose to read that, i say. as i fix the pants. he smiles....

some more on du calling you a man hater? he asks. (we just had a conversation this morning)

no.... i say

he is talking to me. i am talking to him.... and enjoying conversation, differing views.

he walks away with a smile

so ya

i like what you say. will listen to you more as you talk, and not just kick you to curb, lol

thanks

[BlooInBloo]

IMO, cheating is whatever partners decide for themselves it to be...

I see no reason for a one-size-fits-all definition.

Naturally there can be problems if the partners haven't made clear to each other what their expectations are.

[JVS]

177. What if the different halves of a couple disagree?

Saying it's whatever the couple decides is nice, but it's of limited value.

[Kalyke]

191. What? They didn't talk about their basic values before they married?

Seriously.

If you don't, then you're asking for trouble.

[BlooInBloo]

195. (shrug) I had intended to mention that possibility. Possibly I'm forgetful.

[Harry Monroe]

352. Maybe it isn't cheating if you don't get a boner?

I really don't know what the fuss is about. If a guy wants to get a lapdance and then get a severe case of blue balls, all I can say is have at it. But is it cheating if he jizzes in his Jockeys? We could be here all night debating this!! As for me, I wouldn't do it. I've got a wife at home who would do it if I asked her to!! And that's just foreplay, fellas!! Why give yourself a case of the blue balls if you know you can't have the sex? :headbang:

[Kalyke]

Oh - I'm in Tennessee.

Gay marriage isn't even on anyone's radar around here, so it simply didn't occur to me.

That said, however, it's really none of your business, but my husband is quite happy.

[redqueen]

112. Obviously if you are uncomfortable with the idea of a half naked woman

grinding on your husband, then you are treating him like a dog.

That's flawless logic. :sarcasm:

[Kalyke]

LOL

:rofl:

If I grind on him half-naked, is he still being treated like a dog. ;)

[SidDithers]

193. OK, I had to look it up...

Wesco makes some damn big boots :)

Sid

[seabeyond]

204. ooooooh, lmao. lol are they cool though. nt

[TommyO]

230. And they're remarkably comfortable too!

That's the big reason that I wear them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

337. LOL

Some people a little slow on the uptake. :D

[HughBeaumont]

103. Uh . . . WHAT?

A guy now can't have a husband?

Are you KIDDING me?

[seabeyond]

106. oh right. like you arent trying to start something. nt

[Kalyke]

117. Not in my state or any state near me, no.

Sorry, but that's a fact.

I apologized for that not occurring to me, in fact, but it simply didn't.

I actually support gay marriage, but I don't see it happening in my neck of the woods anytime in the next few decades.

[HughBeaumont]

156. Here's the thing.

It's not in my state either or any around mine. But my sister in law has a wife. As does my female co-worker.

Legality doesn't matter. Love and commitment does. It's the state's problem that commitment and love apparently isn't viable unless it fits some 2000 year old novel's confined and misinterpreted definition of it. I recognize it for what it is - marriage and human rights.

Two people love each other and commit in a ceremony, they're married, end of sentence, that's IT. The state needs to catch up, not me or my sister in law.

[Kalyke]

161. He used a legal term, "Bigomy" in his comment.

Even if he considers himself married, in my state, he would NOT be legally married and therefore, could not commit bigomy.

[TommyO]

235. Actually, I used the word "bigamy", correctly spelled

and your backwards' states laws are none of my concern.

[Kalyke]

254. OK, asshole.

[TommyO]

264. Thank you for proving the kind of person you are.

[Kalyke]

288. You're the person who kept nit-picking, so I called you on it.

You're acting like an asshole because I don't agree with you.

I did, however, say that I simply didn't think about same-sex marriages (because it's not gonna happen in my state for a while - and won't in a lot of states that aren't "backward"). I pointed out my bad.

But, you have to use spell check to be a snot.

[TommyO]

291. First of all, I'm not the one who keeps my husband on the short leash

secondly, it didn't take spell check to see "bigomy" as a misspelling

I'm not the asshole lady, I'm not the one who threatened my husband with divorce if he dared to get a lapdance, I'm not the uptight prude.

Edited to add, I'm also not the one who got so frustrated that I called another poster an asshole.

[Kalyke]

307. Again, with the "I must be a prude because I don't like other women

dry humping my husband" bullshit. He doesn't feel he's on a leash and he's happy with our sex life - more than happy.

And, I don't "threaten" divorce. I told him that I would not tolerate that in our marriage BEFORE we married. He had some ground rules, too. Fair enough.

Frustration that men cannot seem to get this is not uncommon.

[TommyO]

309. If I'm an asshole, you can be a prude.

[Kalyke]

316. But I'm not.

And you may not be an asshole - but you acted like one.

:)

[winyanstaz]

74. so its ok if your woman or man works as a lap dancer...

or has one lap dance for them? If so, I can already tell you will end up alone and single and wondering wtf happened to your relationship.

[TheCoxwain]

80. Hey ..watch it ...why are you getting all personal here??

[Kalyke]

85. It's OK.

My husband likes the "leash" I put him on - if you know what I mean.

He has no NEED to go somewhere else for a lap dance. ;)

[TexasObserver]

270. No, he loses YOU, not his family. He keeps his family.

The kids are his as much as they're yours, and he'll get them half the time. You'll have them the other half of the time, and you and your ex husband will both work to pay for your kids.

He'll retain his family. And who knows? Maybe he'll marry that stripper.

[Kalyke]

289. Nope.

I divorced my first husband for cheating. Got the house and full custody and child support.

I know you're (allegedly) an attorney in Texas, but in Tennessee, when you file for grounds and can prove it, you get the lot.

Sorry. It ain't the same in all states.

And, if he marries the stripper, then he'll get supervised visitation.

P.S. I think I tried to tell you this once before. I got everything because I filed on grounds and could prove it. Not sure why you can't seem to understand or accept that.

[TexasObserver]

297. So you like to pretend.

One divorce against one loser does not make you an expert on the topic.

If he gets a decent lawyer, I'm sure he'll do quite well.

[Kalyke]

318. Pretend?

Huh?

I actually lived through it, dude. I didn't pretend anything. I'm not an expert, but I know how to gather proof and evidence. I did most of my attorney's work to keep costs down.

Leastwise, it won't happen again. I learned my lesson the first time and chose a mate more wisely (and openly) this time.

Oh - and my ex-husband was given supervised visitation. It continues to this day because, guess what, I proved his new wife is of "loose moral character." :hi: She wasn't even a stripper. I could easily prove a stripper was of loose moral character in this town. Geesch.

[TexasObserver]

332. Yes, pretend.

You've had one divorce from one loser. That makes you an expert on finding and marrying that guy, not divorce.

[rd_kent]

410. I love how the threat of losing one's family always dangles out there.

My husband's free to go get one, but, if he does, then he loses his family.

Uh, if thats true, then he is NOT free to go and get one. I wonder what YOU could do for him to hold that over your head?

[GirlAfire]

20. I Voted...

...it's totally okay.

I'm trying to imagine: if I had a boyfriend/husband, I think I'd WANT him to have a good time at the strip club. But I'm undecided on what "a good time" entails. I think I'd be okay with him having a lap dance, but I wouldn't want him to go any further than that. Then again, what does it say about his desire for me if he wants that kind of thing from another woman? I don't know! I'm so confuzzled.

[redqueen]

22. What's 'going further' than a lap dance? Hiring her for sex? (nt)

[seabeyond]

23. lol lol. you ok with hubb fuckin someone else..... sure. lol. as long as he is having fun

:)

[GirlAfire]

26. Since When does Lapdance = Sex?

You might want to read my entire post.

[seabeyond]

27. you said IF HE GOES FURTHER.... what is further in a lap dance, bj. ? nt

[GirlAfire]

29. Yeah...

...when I said "have fun," I went on to try to define that as "nothing beyond a lap dance," which would entail bj, sex, etc.

[winyanstaz]

79. just so you know...often a lap dance does include a lot of rubbing ......

and touching...sometimes even on the genitals. Of course it is not supposed to but it often does and it continues until the guy runs out of money or reaches a climax...whatever happens first.

[seabeyond]

83. eeeew, then what, wife gets to wash the undies..... get it outta my head.

teasing.

[HughBeaumont]

99. Exactly. Lapdances != sex. That's the point people seem to be missing here.

[seabeyond]

101. down thread being told rubbing goes on til guy comes in undies. lol.

maybe not sex, but....

[HughBeaumont]

236. It's never happened to me personally.

Maybe that's due to clubs having other people around? :P

[seabeyond]

240. having never been or having one.... just gotta go off what i hear. nt

[HughBeaumont]

252. Yeah, there's a lot of other guys in clubs getting dances too.

Kind of hard to get even halfway aroused when that's in play.

[seabeyond]

269. post 258, if you dont get a hard on must be a eunuch. would ask for money back, lol. nt

[GirlAfire]

25. I Edited...

...because I was talking my way through that. It's been so long since I've had a boyfriend, that I don't even think I know how it's done anymore. LOL.

Ummmm, I think "any further" would be, yes, something like sex or a blowjob. That would definitely not be cool.

[seabeyond]

28. lol lol girl, so funny. but cool. hear what you are saying. nt

[GirlAfire]

30. LOL

Okay. I'm not a TOTAL heathen, y'know; just slightly :D

[yodoobo]

5. Sometimes its ok

Other times its great.

[TheCoxwain]

10. ROLF

:ROFL:

[JVS]

143. It depends on price and local customs.

Montreal, awesome. Philadelphia, not worth it.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. I prefer them at supermarkets, but I guess strip clubs are ok

:)

[DutchLiberal]

18. It's okay to get a lap dance ANYWHERE!

[unpossibles]

19. to me strippers fall into other categories of sex industry workers

call boys/girls, prostitutes, escorts, strippers, phone sex operators, club dancers, Republican Congressmen... even though I do not choose to personally support them financially, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult - and that includes the SOs/spouses of the patrons - then I see no harm in it, nor do I want them to be outlawed.

So, yes lap dances are fine if that's what you're into and if your potential mate is ok with it, then who am I to judge? Personally, I don't care for strip clubs; they're such a waste of money, and I'd rather talk to a regular person in a regular bar instead of pretending someone likes me for more than my tips. But that said, I have friends who have done it and it's good money, so who am I to judge?

[cali]

24. It's slimy, it's disgusting. Some guy wants to be a fucking pig, it's up to him.

[Kalyke]

34. Correct.

And I wish more women would dump these disgusting pigs.

I mean, why isn't Jenny Sanford filing for divorce? Elisabeth Edwards?

I realize, of course, that their marriages are none of my damn business, but, as a woman, I'd like to see that more women stand up against being treated like objects, even in their marriages, and get rid of these jerks. Men need to see that it's simply not acceptable.

[seabeyond]

35. for the most part today, women are being told not only accept it is what a man is, BUT

we are suppose to like and be turned on by womans boobies too and enjoy this play

a lot of women buy into that.

[Kalyke]

82. Yeah - I'm just not turned on by women's bodies.

I am plentiful in the chest department (the only thing big about me, truth be told); therefore, if I ever had a desire to see them, I have mirrors. :rofl:

Seriously, I just don't find female boobs all that. I like male pecs and gluts, myself - particularly my sweet husband's. :loveya:

[seabeyond]

86. ya know. this si another condition, women body beautiful, mens not. wtf

no desire to look at female, but ya.... think male body is way beyond a womans. who told me they weren't gorgeous.

[Kalyke]

98. I'm glad Michaelangelo didn't think the male body wasn't beautiful.

:)

[lumberjack_jeff]

321. My wife and I had an interesting discussion about this yesterday.

My feeling is that men who are pigs have it easier, because that's what women expect anyway.

For men who dislike being (or looking like) pigs, life is harder, because women raise the bar of what constitutes "pig" until the expectation lines up with the actual behavior.

This was in the context of family friends. Hubby (grandpa); hard worker, sober, nonviolent, healthy, active, contributes to household chores. His mortal offense; he doesn't spend enough quality time with his granddaughter who lives at their house every other weekend and with her dad the other weekends.

Mom apparently doesn't want her daughter on the weekends, but grandma doesn't really consider this a flaw.

[seabeyond]

336. maybe. a thought. but i sure do enjoy those men myself, and value and appreciate

i ahev a lot around me.

my hubby likes his down time, and that might me not going to a kids footie footie football game. he is a kick ass father. we are "bad" parents cause doesnt mean a lot to us, cause it doesnt mean a lot to the kids

it works for us

grandpa sounds just fine

[BoneDaddy]

425. Funny most of the men I hang with are no where near pigs

but you are right, it is very convenient for women to continue to buy into this because it will always give them something to look at other than the results of their choices.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

364. There you go projecting now

You don't like looking at women's boobies, so clearly no (hetero) woman would.....

You don't like porn, so clearly no woman would.....

This is where your prudishness becomes a projection.

[seabeyond]

375. only if YOU want to make it so. i said a lot of women, not women....

and i left something open in title, not stating all or nothing. but culturely, yes.... it is true, we are being told it is something we need to accept adn even enjoy and our man must have and all men do.

yes there are women that like it. cool, fine

and there is conditioning going on too

but thank you for the name calling, or trying to demean me sexually, right on par.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

382. You use the word "conditioning"

As if women simply must be being manipulated to be interested in such a thing.

What you choose to do in your personal life is your business and your right. But it becomes prudish when it's clear you can't comprehend other women having a different sexual perspective without you chalking it up to some form of brainwashing.

[seabeyond]

386. yes i use the word conditioning. i use it often, with a lot of stuff. again.... you imply all women

by your choice of wording. that is not what i said. so you are doing what you accuse me of, that i did not do. i said a lot of women.

when you repeat my words you say women, ... implying all women. that isnt what i say, and that is the dishonesty of your post.

you create an illusion, or lie that i cannot comprehend other women having a different sexual perspective.... and again, that is dishonest, because i have not said nor implied or think that

i still stand with we are conditioned to believe we should accept it as part of our mens life and we too should enjoy it and A LOT of women buy into it.

you are doing the very thing that people are bitching at the "prudes" for. pure hypocrisy

[MajorChode]

209. Yep on DU, man bashing = OK, women bashing /= OK

I think you guys are conveniently forgetting that it takes at least two parties to complete the lap dance transaction. I haven't been to a nudie bar in at least 20 years, but if a guy wants to go to one and there are women who aren't being forced to perform, I don't really see the down side, but then I really don't care much what consenting adults do and no I don't buy into any bullshit arguments about how that affects the marriage or relationship of someone else. If they had minded their own business in the first place, there would be no effect whatsoever. As far as what people will or won't tolerate in their own relationships, that is for them and them alone to decide. Infidelity is not exclusive to men. There's plenty of women who do it also and some studies have suggested that the score is pretty equal.

[seabeyond]

213. 50/50 bubba. we have come a long way,.... lol. nt

[redqueen]

233. I wonder if those who think the men who go to strip clubs

are all disgusting or pigs or whatever... do they consider the women who work there to be disgusting pigs as well?

[MajorChode]

275. Donno

What I do know is that if someone were to use such vile language in regards to women they would get put on notice by the thought police in short order, and perhaps rightly so.

[redqueen]

287. Yep. But people encourage this double standard, don't you think?

By telling boys from childhood to 'buck up' and 'walk it off'? Pretending that there's no slight or insult they can't just brush off? The implication is that nothing is a big deal. Not a punch, not an insult... nothing. Conversely, girls are encouraged to feel helpless, and in need of defense.

Seems to me we're positively set up for these sorts of issues.

[lumberjack_jeff]

323. I don't hold either in very high regard.

But the men leave poorer and the women richer.

So I guess the main difference is intelligence.

[redqueen]

335. Hah... good point! (nt)

[Taverner]

329. You do know some wives enjoy going to strip clubs with their 'pigs'

Just sayin'

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

361. But as "seabeyond" says....

...THAT'S because they are told to enjoy it. Clearly no woman would enjoy something that she herself doesn't.

[seabeyond]

376. so you change my words then spam it out. ooooh, dishonest. nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. If you're involved in a monogamous relationship, I would consider it cheating but I

won't tell anyone else to do with their body when consenting adults are involved.

In other words, I don't personally think it's ok but who am I to judge?

[aikoaiko]

33. Well, there's a difference between a lap dance and dry humping.

but the difference is nuanced at some clubs.

[Whisp]

36. I'm not sure...

on the one hand if the strippers make fairly good money at this when there isn't anything else available, or for whatever reason really, then why not. One of the crappiest jobs in the world imho but....

but on the other hand, those skeevy jerks with the hard ons - where do they go and who do they go after to complete their needs? hopefully to the bathroom with The Hand, but....

[seabeyond]

39. oh, then they go home and the wife services them. from what i hear from SOME guys on du

isnt that a compliment to the wife

but then we are suppose to appreciate that he came home to be serviced.

[Whisp]

44. sounds so romantic...

:puke:

[seabeyond]

48. bah hahahahah. ya. lol. nt

[The Midway Rebel]

38. I wonder if it would change the results of the poll if you call a lap dance...

what it really is: a dry hump, bump and grind against your privates, set to music.

Nah..."lap dance" makes sound artistic.

[redqueen]

41. Probably not.

Sad, but there you go.

BTW thanks for your honesty about it. I wonder how many men 'finish' during those things.

[The Midway Rebel]

56. I dunno...

perhaps you can conduct a DU poll.




:D

[TorchTheWitch]

385. extraordinarily few

Of all the lapdances I've given over the years it's only happened to me twice. Both times it happened practically as soon as the guy sat down and both were extremely embarrassed. I've found that most of the customers don't get a boner at all as most of them seem to be not comfortable enough in such a public environment and/or the type of contact just doesn't do the trick for them. Not really the point though as from my experience getting a boner and/or "finishing" isn't why they're buying the dances anyway. Certainly there are those that that is exactly why they're buying the dances, but I find there are not all that many of them... they also seem to be the ones that are rude, cheap and think you're a hooker.

[seabeyond]

387. hey

gotta say it again. damn, i like the way you talk. so straight, to the point and no playing around

just awesome, and wealth of info. and.... i know it isnt the expected answers you will give. it is your experience.

thanks

and not this particular post.

i feel that way in most all your posts thru out different threads.

[TorchTheWitch]

396. thank you

Believe it or not it's often a struggle for me to get my thoughts put into the right words. I make a LOT of posts that never end up on the board because I just can't seem to put what I mean into words, so I end up getting frustrated, stuck and just give up trying to finish. It always makes sense in my head but sooo many times I just can't seem to get what's in my head written out. I'm always surprised to find my keyboard on the desk and not in a million pieces on the pavement outside the window. LOL!

:hi:

[seabeyond]

400. oh really. that is a surprise

what i read, and how it feels, feels the total opposite of what you are saying

have confidence. you are one of the best posters.

[redqueen]

403. +1

[redqueen]

404. Glad to hear that.

I've been around some men who... well let's just say they seemed to have a whole different outlook about stripping than most here. There's a post or two here where men disparage the dancers they pay to ogle... but not many. That's reassuring.

And yeah, rude is a good word for 'em. One of many I could think of. :P

[get the red out]

42. None of my business - other

:shrug: If something isn't illegal, I can't dictate what another person does; whether they recieve a lap dance or give one.

If it is my husband, then the consequences are between me and him; your husband, your business.

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. It depends on what you and your partner's attitude is toward this

I dated a woman who didn't want me even to go to a strip club for a bachelor party, and I have dated other woman who don't care as long as I don't frack one of the strippers.

[Orsino]

59. +1 n/t

[yodoobo]

46. It never occured to me as cheating

I'm a bit suprised on this thread that some would take a mans family away for such a thing.

Unless of course it was spelled out ahead of time that such of thing is off limits.


I've had a few lap dances over the years since being married when out with the guys and I've always told my wife about it the next day. Not out of guilt, but because I was just telling her how the night went.

Oh I get a bit of the rolling of eyes thing but that's about it.

I guess it never occurred to either of us that such a thing would be cheating.

[seabeyond]

52. and if she dry humped a nice young hard man???? no problem. right? nt

[yodoobo]

60. My response would be similar to hers

A bit annoyed.

But I wouldn't call that cheating and the idea of ending the marriage over it would be ridiculous and petty (to me).

Now understand that the trust between us is pretty solid.

If that's all that happened and it was in a club atmosphere on a "girls night out" analogous to what I described, some minor annoyance would be the extent and I would be over it by lunchtime.

[seabeyond]

67. wink. gotcha. nt

[Kalyke]

72. Petty?

Ridiculous?

You find it petty and ridiculous to be disrespected in your marriage?

I don't. I find it divorce-worthy because I find it both disrespectful to me and to women, in general.

I call it cheating.

I'm not so idiotic that I think that no one ever finds someone else attractive, period, after they marry. But seeing a pretty or handsome face across the room at the lunch counter or in an ad on television isn't quite the same thing as purposely going out to lust after some woman and her booty - thus purposely disrespecting your wife and women, in general.

[cbdo2007]

95. Are you married? It sounds like you're determined to get divorced...

for some reason at some point.

[Kalyke]

107. I am married and very in love with my husband.

However, I also find cheating and being disrespectful to one's spouse by purposely ogling members of the opposite sex deal breakers.

Cheating is far more than one act - it's a deliberate act of hurting your spouse emotionally.

I am, however, not determined to get divorced. I don't see why men think other men cannot go the rest of their lives without going to a strip club. It's not that difficult a task and not too much for a spouse to ask for.

[MineralMan]

134. Just some men think that. Not me. If I want to look at a naked

woman, my wife will be more than happy to oblige. Why would I go to a strip club, much less have some stranger hump my leg? Different strokes, I guess.

[seabeyond]

137. some stranger hump my leg? ... had to laugh. fast visual of a poodle

that wouldnt get off.... at a friends house. you know trying to get it off

just a funny

[MineralMan]

169. That's about how I see it. I have nothing invested in a lap dancer,

so she'd just some some random stranger to me. I don't have sex with random strangers. So why would I participate in a lap dance with one?

Being married doesn't mean not finding other people attractive. That happens all the time. Because it never goes beyond that, my wife finds it mildly amusing. But then, she thinks some men are attractive, too.

It stops there. I've had opportunities, and I suppose most married people have. It's not hard to pass on them, though. It's just nature's way of telling you you are still attractive and can be attracted. Acting on that, on the other hand, is not cool, IMO.

According to some, I suppose, that's not a manly thing. Screw 'em.

[Kalyke]

148. Thank you.

You've (mostly) restored my faith in DU men.

FWIW, I'm happy to oblige my husband, too, which probably is why he's A-OK with the fact that I don't want him to go to a strip club and/or get a lap dance.

:hi:

[MineralMan]

190. Well, I'm an old fart, and my wife is over 10 years younger,

so sometimes she obliges me that way without even being asked. Can't say I mind, though. :bounce:

[yodoobo]

122. Yes petty to me and my wife

Divorce is a serious, traumatic, life changing event.

To me, throwing away a committed loving, successful marriage over a lap dance is akin to divorcing because she put a dent in the new car.

I understand your line is different though.

To me the line would be having sex with someone else. If my wife screwed another guy that would be divorce time. Same for her.

The line is different in different cultures. In some cultures multiple wives are ok. Other cultures exposing more than the eyes warrants death.

Your line is a lap dance. As long your husband knew that when he signed up, then I see no problem.

[Kalyke]

184. Correct.

However, my first husband *did* cheat on me; therefore, the "line in my sand" has gotten deeper.

I didn't blame myself, mind you. I'm liberated enough to know he had the problem, not me; however, it is my belief and opinion that refraining from placing yourself in a tempting situation on the front end results in a lot less grief on the back end. My first husband was tempted by his lifestyle (more than I care to go into, but take it at that).

So I got out, on grounds, and don't regret it a day, despite having to raise our son alone (in addition to being a cheat, he's also a child support skipper) on what started as some pretty measly wages.

But, my husband now knows how I feel and why I feel that way. FWIW, I'm certainly no prude in our bedroom, so he's more than cool with it. :hi:

[cbdo2007]

239. Ok, this answers my previous divorce question better.

I understand your position now much better as you've gone through the worst and would understandably have lowered your tolerance level.

For my wife and I, I think either of us going to a strip club would just be something the other would laugh off. I mean, don't tell her this, but she could probably even get away with quite a bit in my book as long as there was no intercourse cause I'm sure I'd forgive her for it if I really thought she was sorry and wanted to change. I don't take divorce lightly so even with infidelity I would be looking to make the marriage last and strengthen it and move forward stronger, so that's why the strip club thing doesn't seem as much of a big deal.

[seabeyond]

246. did a poll, which was interesting. would you want to know if mate cheated

i had a friend tell me she wouldnt want to know. i would absolutely, if a friend knew and didnt tell, i would feel betrayed by friend. but puts friend in an odd place

my friend told me she would nto want to know

that so surprised me. i couldnt imagine.

so i did a poll

i asked hubby adn he said he wouldnt want to know

15 yrs married and i was clueless. lol. i would have never imagined that answer

[cbdo2007]

259. I would want to know if it was multiple times or was ongoing...

Like if my wife was having a 3 month affair I would want to know about it.

Or if she had given oral to 3 guys at her work on separate occasions...

or there are probably a few other scenarios then yeah I would want to know about it cause that's pretty major.

If it just happened once and she feels like sh*t about it and was just a singular mistake and she isn't going to do it again, then I don't want to know.

This might make a good DU poll though....

[seabeyond]

266. i did on du, maybe a year ago. was really interesting hearing people discuss their opinions

so varied. but the shit i like to listen to.

[Kalyke]

279. What's ironic is that I was more mad than upset.

I was PISSED that he'd do his son that way. Cheating on the parent is a surefire way to break up a home.

If I'd stayed with him, I'd have felt disrespected and distrustful and resentful. Not a good combination for raising a healthy kid.

[ecstatic]

325. Me neither. Now I'm wondering

if maybe my standards for conduct are too low? :shrug:

[cbdo2007]

50. I had three at my bachelor party, two of which were bought by my wife's brothers.

They weren't erotic really though, like the girl was dancing around but there was no contact. She was hardly even within a few feet of me.

The kind of lap dances with contact where there is actual grinding into a guy's crotch and he's getting off on it - sure that's bad.

If she's just dancing there in front of him with minimal contact, which is hardly enough to even give most guys an erection - there's nothing wrong with this.

[EOTE]

258. Ummm, I think they were doing it wrong.

And if I got that after paying for a lap dance, I'd have asked for my money back. If you manage to avoid an erection after receiving a proper (and yes, I just used 'proper' when pertaining to a lapdance), you're most likely a eunuch. Perhaps these were table dances?

[cbdo2007]

274. I think it's the law here in Missouri - they have to stay 3 feet away from you

at all times. They can brush against you but can't actually "grind"? I admit, I'm no expert. Maybe they just gave me the PG version cause they could tell I wasn't going to pony up more money and wouldn't know if it was a bad lap dance. Then again this wasn't a very classy place so maybe they were to blame for being bad at it. I was definitely sitting on a couch object, one-on-one with the girl though so it wasn't a table dance. I don't know. :|

[EOTE]

341. Sounds to me that lap dances are illegal in Missouri.

Because as far as I know, lap dances have to involve, you know, a lap. Also, I don't understand how a dancer can have to stay 3 feet away and still be capable of brushing against you. Maybe they were rather talented dancers :P

[cbdo2007]

417. Damn...I've got to go to a better state and get a REAL lap dance. For "research" purposes only

of course.

I don't understand what I was doing wrong either but I'll readily admit I'm pretty stupid, expecially when there's half naked girls around. Damn, I feel duped! :)

[EOTE]

428. It happens to the best of us : )

If there's a half naked girl around me, I just do my best not to drool.

[DefenseLawyer]

53. None of my business.

Next.

[Twinguard]

54. Wifey and I have a strict "look but don't touch" policy.

We agree that it doesn't matter how the water heats up, as long as it boils at home.

That said, on our last trip to Vegas, she asked me to buy her a lapdance. It was hot, so I was all for it. I didn't get a dance of my own, but whatever. We look at strip clubs and lap dances as what they are... entertainment. As long as there isn't any touching (I haven't ever asked, but I assume over the clothes touching is also forbidden) lap dances and strippers are no biggie.

Just my $.02.

[asdjrocky]

55. I worked in this industry for years.

Some of my best friends, and best wives, have been strippers.

The thing that men don't understand, most of them anyway, is the ridicule and contempt the women feel for the men in the club. They laugh at the guys they dance for, make fun of how they smell, or the dumb things they say.

So all in all, it's just like any business where people have to deal with the public; the public always becomes the ire of the workers.

Have I had a lap dance? Hell yeah, hundreds and not one paid for. I've also given a few, and I'm pretty good on a stripper pole.

Regular people, just like you and me, do these jobs everyday.

[The Midway Rebel]

58. "They laugh at the guys they dance for, make fun of how they smell, or the dumb things they say."

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[asdjrocky]

64. Ok, even though I have no idea what that means.

Who's being a hypocrite here?

[seabeyond]

66. both ways. that is the thing. and when i say it.... both sides, no we respect

bullshit

bah hahahah

but so right on

[TexasObserver]

Guys with money go to a place where they can give it to scantily clad women half their age.

That's pretty much the business.

I have no problem with topless dancing, nude dancing, lap dancing, whatever. Adults should be free to do whatever they want with their bodies, including rub them lasciviously on other adults for money.

Some of the coolest, smartest women I've ever known were strippers. Some strippers are on top of that world, and for others that world is on top of them. But that's true of secretaries in downtown firms, too.

[cbdo2007]

290. I hope the girls there aren't half my age - that really is some sick sh*t!

[TexasObserver]

303. Then get back to work.

You haven't been working long enough to be fucking off at a club in the middle of the day.

If you aren't old enough to be president of the US, you're not old enough to be hanging out in a club before 6 pm.

[cbdo2007]

319. That's true. Reminds me of what all Chris Rock has to say about strip clubs.

"We all got those friends that's addicted to strip clubs. If you at a strip club and the sun is out, you got some problems. You know those guys that eat at the strip club? Eat at the buffet. How the f*ck could you eat at a nasty-ass strip club? What? Are you that hungry? Motherf*cker go to Mickey D's or some sh*t. Rwandan refugees won't eat that sh*t. At a damn strip club. Titties and Tater Tots don't mix!"

[TexasObserver]

320. Oh, God. It's true.

Anyone going to any club for the buffet is crazy!

[redqueen]

326. You misread the joke.

It's not that they're going there *for* the food... it's that they eat it at all.

[TexasObserver]

327. I think you misread my comment.

I've seen Chris Rock deliver that line many times on late night TV replays of his stand up routine. Yeah, it means don't eat at strip clubs.

[redqueen]

333. Allllllrighty then.

:yoiks:

[cbdo2007]

339. Here it is from Youtube - Chris Rock on Strippers

Starts at about the 3 minute mark but it's definitely worth it to watch the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5IqUzUICN0

[Greyskye]

363. "Great food - sexy dancers!"

Swear to Jeebus, that's the sign on the strip club visible from the freeway near me.

I always wondered why they gave the food top billing there. :evilgrin:

[Warpy]

57. Other

It's just none of my business.

I wouldn't even care if a spouse had one. After all, it's not exposing me to anything and chances are he got goaded into it by his bar buddies. Big deal.

I'd just take the equivalent cash and go on a spree, myself.

[Jennicut]

62. My husband plays in a band in clubs and really, women throw themselves at him all the time.

I am kind of used to it so lap dances are nothing to me.
Now, if only I could get one. :)

[The Midway Rebel]

69. How does your musician husband feel about the fact that on a typical night

most strippers will make five times the amount of money that he does playing music and actually having talent and skills?

[Jennicut]

71. Oh, he does pretty well. They pay good for certain cover bands.

Corporate events can be good. The top cover bands, like The Nerds (from the Jersey shore) can make up to $10,000 for one of those. He does it for fun really. And the glory of playing Bon Jovi. Or Michael Jackson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZJtDSxfXDo

[The Midway Rebel]

81. $10,000!? For playing Bon Jovi covers!? My gawd, just think how much they could get if they

would give those corporate corporations lap dances?





:D

[Jennicut]

87. LOL. Yup. Wanted Nerds for my birthday but they are SO expensive.

So we went to see them at Toad's Place instead.

[AlienGirl]

63. I misread that as "get a tap dance." nt

[rd_kent]

73. Isnt that the POINT?

[Taverner]

77. Only if you tip well

Otherwise, you're just a cheapskate

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

78. Never had one, never want one.

And I don't care if anyone else does for that matter. I don't see the appeal.

I also don't see how that constitutes "cheating" however. Even if it's the "mutually agreed upon rules of engagement," that still seems a bit extreme to me. You can mutually agree to a lot of things, but that doesn't make it healthy.

[Stevenmarc]

84. Whatever consenting adults want to do with their time and money is none of my business

[JVS]

88. I'd rather save the money for the massage parlor!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

91. For whom? it would not be ok for me, because my partner would mind

however, what arrangements other people have with their SO's, i dont know and i dont care.

[AngryAmish]

97. As with everything, there can be some nuance here

Over the years I have had some lap dances that were clearly foreplay for both of us. I have had some that did not involve any touching whatsoever.

I am married now and have not seen the inside of a strip club for four years or more. While I would not get one now I would flip out if my wife made a strict policy of no strip clubs, etc.

Many partners like to dominate/isolate their partners. It is a form of abuse and I won't stand for it.

[redqueen]

109. Isolating from friends and family is abusive. But isolating from lapdances?

Really?

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

111. lol lol lol. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

124. according to your logic, all monogamous relationships are abusive. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

110. Yes.... I'm getting one right now. nt

[SidDithers]

114. It would be OK for some people...

and not OK for others. There are plenty of couples with healthy relationships where this type of activity wouldn't be a problem, and there are couples where one or the other partner would feel cheated upon.

Personally, I try not to judge others on their relationships or sexual proclivities. The world would be kind of boring if we all had the exactly the same tastes and values.

Sid

[seabeyond]

116. agreed. cheers. now to work. fun thread. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

126. well said!

[Toasterlad]

115. Of Course. Why Wouldn't It Be?

[juno jones]

118. I'd never do it,

but I've been with both male and female friends at strip clubs who did and it was no big deal.

PS, most of them were there with their spouse.

[Taverner]

120. In all honesty, I think seeing CSW's is OK

CSW= Commercial Sex Workers

I wouldn't want to do it - or get a lap dance. Not because I'm morally against it (I'm not) but I find it boring and lacking in imagination.

I prefer porn. It's cheaper and lets you flex your imagination a bit.

[redqueen]

125. It's odd how people who express disapproval are getting such defensive,

emotional responses from others.

Not necessarily attacked... but... well yeah, actually. They're being attacked as repressive, dominating, etc.

Strange.

[Toasterlad]

132. The Sexual Repressiveness of America Is a Pet Peeve Of Mine.

I'll admit to having little patience for people with sexual hangups.

[redqueen]

139. What you call a hangup is just normal sexuality for other people.

You can't project your thoughts and feelings about sexuality onto everyone, and consider anyone who differs from what you see as normal as having some 'hangup'.

[Toasterlad]

165. Actually, Yes I Can

Everyone sets their own boundaries of sexuality, and judges others accordingly. EVERYONE, whether they voice their opinions or not. I'm as free to believe that any woman who'd divorce her husband over a lap dance is a frigid prude as that woman is to consider any man who'd get a lap dance a cheating sex maniac.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toasterlad]

176. You Lost Me With The Cali Reference

Cali hasn't checked in on this thread. Not sure what you're referring to.

[redqueen]

180. This:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6654070&mesg_id=6654175

[Toasterlad]

187. Ah! I Missed That, Sorry.

Obviously, I disagree with that viewpoint, and I lose respect for anyone who holds it. But, as I said, that's just ME. That doesn't make the viewpoint any more or less valid.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to air your viewpoints on a message board, especially your sexual viewpoints, be prepared for judgment.

[seabeyond]

178. no everyone doesnt. just like ALL men wants porn and if they tell you otherwise they lie

no

that is what that person says to validate.

not everyone judges the other. i dont give a flyin fuck what you are doing. nor have i asked or labeled or called you names on what you are doing. dont give a shit

obviously you like strip clubs, big fuckin deal. dont care
'
NOT everyone judges anothers experience

[redqueen]

183. Thanks, exactly.

It's so idiotic how some people just flatly assert such obviously untrue things. I dunno why it happens, but it's just stupid.

[Toasterlad]

196. What a Judgment!

[redqueen]

198. Well it is. Not all men are the same. Neither are all women.

Same goes for any group you can name.

Asserting any different is most definitely, IMO, dumb as hell. :)

[Toasterlad]

201. Stating That All People Make Judgments Isn't Opinion. It's Part of Being a Thinking Being.

EVERYONE makes judgments. EVERYONE.

[redqueen]

205. Oh that... yeah sure. I thought we were talking about all men liking porn.

I meant that kind of assertion.

I agree with you on the judgments. Totally. It bugs me when people say they don't judge... or why should they judge... uh, cause you have a brain? ;)

[Toasterlad]

216. No, I Certainly Agree That Not All Men Like Porn...Or That Not All Women Hate It, For That Matter

As I said, everyone sets up their own sexual boundaries. We all make judgements on other peoples boundaries, but that doesn't make them any more or less valid. As far as I'm concerned, any adult is free to do anything they want with a sane, consensual adult. It's the people that don't agree with that who annoy me.

[seabeyond]

223. no... you have names to call people if they dont like strip clubs

as do people going down the thread

that is what is declared.

[redqueen]

228. Agreed on all points!

:toast:

[seabeyond]

208. EVERYONE I TELL YA.... EVERYONE. waaaaaa. sorry

jsut reminded me of my two yr old, a decade ago

[Toasterlad]

217. That Poor Child.

[seabeyond]

224. oh oh oh.... now you are going ot insult me on paretning, say poor child, i should

not be raising a kid.

this is your next step.

and you lecture other people.... as you continually personally attack

what an asss

[Whisp]

242. Then you judge for yourself, and not for me.

I think lap dancing makes a man look like a fool and apparently some dancers think that too while these guys think they are Adonises that can't be sexually resisted when it's really their money that is attractive and not their pot bellies and smelly arses wriggling around in their soaked underpants.

feh. thats my judgement, for myself. you go have your fun however you like, I don't give a shit.

[seabeyond]

248. ya know. lol. nt

[Toasterlad]

256. See, You Made a Judgment! Was That So Hard?

More to your point...do you honestly believe that any man who goes to a strip club for a lap dance actually cares one way or the other what the woman THINKS OF HIM?

[Whisp]

271. well thats a whole other point isn't it?

she's not a person to him then, is she. just a vehicle for him to jerk off by. which just compounds the wretched idea that women are only conveniences for mens penises and should stay in that place.

minus even more points for you on that point.

and yes we all make judgements, I judge when to cross the street, how much butter to put in my pound cake. and a lot of etc.

[seabeyond]

272. dupe

[seabeyond]

273. this is so funny. the couple strippers on board made the point of saying, .... and

the guys that use the strippers tell me how much they respect the women.

hm

bah hahaha

see the hypocrisy and inconsistency

not that all of it is not obvious and know. jsut people like pretending and all

[Toasterlad]

194. Um...Yeah, They Do.

Just because someone doesn't voice their opinion, doesn't mean they don't have one. "It doesn't bother me" is as much of a judgment as "That's gross!"

You judge everything you see and hear, every day, all day. It's basic to being a sentient organism.

[DutchLiberal]

380. Wait, wait.... NOT every man wants porn?

[seabeyond]

388. not from what i hear. though i have been told by men and often. nt

[redqueen]

405. LOL

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

141. you dont fuckin know shit about what is happening in my bedroom.

you say repressed. you dont know shit

not shit

you assume a whole hell of a lot. and that just makes you stupid.

then you get angry, a pet peeve, of an illusion you create.

[Toasterlad]

154. Um...If You Share It On a Message Board, Then Yeah, I DO Know.

If you don't want people judging your prudish attitudes, you shouldn't express them in public.

[seabeyond]

168. so.... cause i dont get turned on by womens boobs, i am a prude. fuck......

we have all kinds of ways to create our prudish nation

and what if i like sexual experiences youa re disgusted with. does that make you a prude

and is strippin the only sexually expressive experience or are there zillions

are you fuckin for real

i have to think like you, enjoy what you tell me to.... so you dont decide i am a prude

fuck that shit

lmao

[Toasterlad]

173. Reading Your Posts Is Like Trying to Balance a Ping Pong Ball on a Bowling Ball

It's so hard to figure out what your point is.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, then yes, you are correct to disregard my opinion of whether or not you're a prude. Why on earth should someone care what someone on a message board thinks of their sexual habits?

[seabeyond]

181. well duh. so how stupid does it make you to go around pointing finger yelling PRUDE....

just grow up

[Toasterlad]

197. Well, At Least That One Was Easier To Understand, If Equally Useless.

[seabeyond]

211. i have yet to see insightful from you. offensive, insulting, but no insightful.nt

[Toasterlad]

219. Oh, Darling, I Don't Think You'll EVER See "Insightful".

I think it's beyond your grasp.

[seabeyond]

135. isnt it? what does that say, these prudes jumping into my bedroom. shame. nt

[redqueen]

144. I dunno...

It's damned strange though.

I mean one poster up thread is going all ALL CAPS about it, even. GOD! :rofl:

[seabeyond]

186. rofl.... i know. topsy turvy world. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

140. there are plenty who have stated they are against it, but are not being judgmental pricks

being judgmental about other peoples bodies and relationships makes people react negatively. show me where someone was attacked when all they said was, "hey, its not for me, but other adults are free to do what they want to with their own bodies & relationships"

[redqueen]

152. So that's your very wordy way of saying that it's all due to the tone of the first response?

Is that it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

158. 2 sentences is wordy now? yes, the judgment is what matters. call it tone or whatever you want to.

[redqueen]

212. It's not the length... it's whether it could be said more efficiently.

IMO :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

215. how sad. nt

[redqueen]

227. LOL... how is that sad?

Don't be all butt hurt... sorry, I shouldn't have said that your post was wordy.

There, do you feel better now?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

237. you are in no position to hurt me. your attempts at criticizing me are sad and amusing at the same

time.

[redqueen]

245. Oooh how enlightened you are acting.

I didn't criticize you, Pri. I criticized your post. You shouldn't take things so personally, you know.

As for your confusion about the question not being about cheating... it was in the original post. It's an option in the poll. "It is cheating"

The first post wasn't even that judgmental. But some people do look for reasons to feel victimized, I know.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

250. funny that you post about looking for reasons to feel victimized. that is all you do. nt

[redqueen]

253. See, I'd call that projection.

But I'm guessing you'd say the same thing to me.

It's a funny old world. :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

421. yet, i am oddly never the one always whining how the dear monogamous people of the world are under

attack. despite, actually practicing monogamy.

[redqueen]

429. Always?

:rofl:

Yep! See what I mean? A few posts in 6 years... but to the ever-victimized, it's "always."

[SidDithers]

162. Agreed...

It's the judgemental attitude that's stirring up the emotion, not the actual difference of opinion.

I think we're pretty like-minded on this issue :hi:

Sid

[redqueen]

188. As I said in post 174, IMO there seems to be a difference

in saying judgmental stuff in response to the OP and in addressing such strong opinions directly to other posters.

Maybe that's a mistake, but like I said... that's just how it seems to me.

[Lisa0825]

383. I agree too. nt

[Kalyke]

324. Exactly.

I said I'd divorce MY husband.

Hell... I didn't tell these other women to divorce their husbands.

:)

[Cheap_Trick]

160. Maybe because the "others" are being called cheating, disgusting, dirty, filthy pigs

who should be divorced immediately. Hmmm...I don't know why they'd take offense.

Not so strange.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

164. oink, oink.

yes, exactly my point

[redqueen]

174. In direct responses?

It's one thing to respond about prudes or disgustingness to the OP... another to address it directly to another DUer.

Didn't see anyone directly attacking those who say it's no big deal... must have missed those.

[seabeyond]

192. may be a point. BUT... poster specifically asked is it cheating. and if a person thinks it is

cheating, how are they suppose to say, i think it is cheating, ..... without saying i think it is cheating.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

220. did the OP edit the question? here is one way to say, its cheating, without being a judgmental ass

Between my partner and I, it is cheating. Other couples define their own parameters/boundaries.

[seabeyond]

232. i dotn think i talked about anyones relationship but my own. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

234. i wasnt talking about you necessarily. the question was about everyone

the OP as it stands now, doesnt ask about cheating only. it may have, which is why i asked if it was edited

i was referring to people who call other people slimy or pigs or whatnot and wonder why people are mean to them

[HughBeaumont]

203. And there it is.

+1.

I'm no cheater and neither is my wife. Unbelievable.

[lumberjack_jeff]

317. It's odd to see people reduce it to such binary terms.

Absolutism.

From the dancer's side, If I looked good enough that people wanted to give me money, who am I to turn it down?

That said, it wouldn't be long before I began to wonder if I had anything more to offer.

From the customer's side, eww.

Seriously, I was in a strip club once. It made me feel totally... icky. I'm clearly not the right demographic.

I hope no one misconstrues my reaction as disparaging of their profession, but I'd rather work at a slaughterhouse.

[redqueen]

328. LOL

I've been in a couple. One high class one, and one seedy. Once I went with a friend who wanted to go to meet up with someone who worked there or something, I don't remember... and once I just wanted to see what it was like (the high class joint). Both times I left thinking, "eh". :P

[JVS]

131. I think there are a lot of people talking out of their ass on this thread.

[SIMPLYB1980]

149. Looks like the prudes are takeing a beating on this one.

:spank:

[Kansas Wyatt]

150. Strippers gave free lap dances, is that okay?

Seriously, I tried to pay them, but they wouldn't take my money. They told me I was too adorable and they got too much pleasure out of it, to make me pay.

I never understood the concept of a strip club anyway, since I could go to a bar and get the same thing.

[Blue_In_AK]

157. My ex liked this sort of thing.

I wasn't thrilled by it, but he was going to do whatever he was going to do anyway. Thankfully my husband now only has eyes for me.

[BabbaTam]

210. comments on sexuality

People who are so sure of their ideas that they can say for sure that others are totally wrong and then call them names instead of discussing the pros and cons of each other's ideas are the reason we have wars! I think that in the old days, square dancing was as exciting as lap dancing is today. Wow, think about it, you actually got to touch someone else besides your wife. woo wee! hot dam! You know they actually proved geese aren't totally monogamous. It was just a myth. Kinda like the myth that puritanical living is healthy.(IMHO)

[seabeyond]

218. so... if you dont od strip bars you live a puritanical life. what if hubby doesnt like it

i wanna make him go.... gosh darn it, not wanting to be puritanical, but man, he thinks it is demeaning..... and not to me, or the women, but HIM. he doesnt see why he should pay for tits.

is he puritanical?

[billh58]

222. I don't

believe that I could dance on a near-naked woman's lap. I would most likely lose my balance, and hurt myself.

[TexasObserver]

263. Can we get a Plymouth Rock Forum for all the Puritans here?!

Jesus, but the Pilgrims come out strong every time anyone in America gets a boner.

[MineralMan]

265. Hmm...

And isn't getting a "boner" the whole idea behind strip clubs? Being faithful to my marriage vows makes me a Puritan? Really?

[HughBeaumont]

284. Er, not really.

I don't think it ever gets to that level for me or a lot of guys getting lapdances. Really, would you want to be seen with a cucumber in your trousers, pitching a tent and all that? I wouldn't.

[TexasObserver]

295. Being faithful to your wife makes you a husband. Being judgmental about others makes you

... puritanical.

If you only applied your personal standard to youself, you'd be fine. But you have to proselytize.

Did I suggest you should go to clubs? Has anyone suggested you should go there? No, of course not. No one has suggested you be forced to bend your noble standards. So why are you still here talking? Why do you care what others do about this?

[MineralMan]

298. Did I suggest you should do as I do? I said that I considered it

cheating. I have no authority over anyone. So, you're welcome to do as you wish. I have said that in at least three posts now. My concern about what you choose to do is nonexistent.

As for why I am here talking, I'm a DU member. This is a public thread. I'll post as I see fit, thanks. If you have a problem with my posting, take it up with the moderators.

[TexasObserver]

301. At ease, Private.

You would never get a lap dance because you consider it cheating on your wife.

And you would never consider judging others merely because you have a standard that is based upon your life, and therefore not applicable to anyone but you.

If that's true, we're good.

[MineralMan]

306. Had you read my posts in this thread, it would have been clear

to you. You jumped to a conclusion. This thread is about whether it's OK to get a lap dance. For me, it's not. Why on earth would I care what anyone who is not me does? If it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg, I don't give a crap what anyone does, unless it harms someone.

Your suggestion that I shouldn't post in this thread is offensive. I would never say anything like that to another DUer.

You don't know me from Adam. And I'm not a fucking Private, nor are you in any position to give me orders.

[TexasObserver]

311. Now give me 20.

[TorchTheWitch]

390. Not at all

Customers get dances for all sorts of reasons, and the ones who do it to get a boner and/or "finish" is the much lesser of them. Most guys who do unintentionally get a hard-on are embarrassed by it. Quite a number of times when that's happened the guy asked if we could linger in the lapdance room for a minute or so so he wouldn't have to walk out with it visable (and most of the time it isn't visable anyway... they just feel like it is).

[HughBeaumont]

349. I've actually seen posts on DU from people who think merely LOOKING at porn is "cheating".

:wtf: I mean, thinking a mere lapdance = fucking is out there, but that's just over the damned top by ANY stretch. Not getting how one assumes they can correct thousands of years of ingrained human behavior.

Bizarre, money . .. biiiiizarrrrre.

[seabeyond]

351. i dont think anyone thinks lap dance = screwing. i think people see cheating as

more oh, what.... on a slide scale... or flexible

cheating doesn't mean.... fucking someone else, to everyone.

hubby go to a strip club, i will be mad, but not divorce. hubby fuck around, i am gone but then works the other way too.

hubby have sex talk on phone, gonna matter, emotionally connect? or stupid drunk, not thinking having fun

i think it is all a form of betrayal, but each circumstance weighs differently.

and by the way.... ALL of this is vice versa. he feels the same way towards me.

[TexasObserver]

359. Yes, I know the "porn is cheating" meme.

I can imagine that in some cases, it is tantamount to cheating. If it takes over the guy, if he's not having sex with his wife, if he is off on some fetish she can't relate to, that's a problem.

But most of the time, porn is just porn.

[Lisa0825]

384. DUzy! LOL

:spray: :rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

432. *

:spray:

:thumbsup:

Yeah, no shit.

[skipos]

276. I know several women who like strip clubs, but not many men who like them

Men are seen as a wallet with legs. Women often get in for free and are mostly left alone by lap dance seeking strippers.

[seabeyond]

278. that is funny,. i am hearing more and more men explain it this way

i didnt have a clue, hubby told me that is how he feels. no interest in going and paying.... for that reason. then heard other. c ouple today. i can see that reasoning.

nothing to do with being degrading to females. men feel demeaning to them. thought it an intersting perspective.

[skipos]

285. The South Park "Raisins" episode sums it up pretty well

if you have seen it.

[seabeyond]

338. nope havent seen

can you condense to easy for you.... curious.

[Hepburn]

277. Sex acts between consenting adults....

...are not my business. IMO, prostitution should be legalized. Attitudes in the US towards sex are just so freaking puritanical.

Now...as to working conditions and the sexual exploitation of women...that is a different issue.

JMHO

[Cobalt-60]

283. It's slightly naughty fun

But don't enter the "VIP" room.
You won't get what they insinuate you will.
And you'll spend more than you might have with
a working girl!
(OFC I learned it the hard way as a lad in he Navy.)

[Romulox]

292. I don't know what 'OK' means, but I wouldn't do it. (find it gross). nt

[omega minimo]

293. So now we can OP in GD about another (non-political) thread, link to live thread and call out OP

"I would like to know where does DU stand on this"

[debbierlus]

294. My husband does that kind of shit, he wouldn't be my husband for long

I think it is beyond disrespectful to one's partner to engage in that sort of thing. Fortunately, that is not my husband's type of thing, so it has never been an issue. He thinks strip clubs are sad places for all parties involved.

If a guy I was with choose to go to a strip club or get a lap dance while he had a committment to me, I would leave him.

[DevonRex]

414. Hey debbie. We don't agree on quite a few things, but on social

kinds of issues we do seem to agree. So, in the future I'll try to remember this before I get too snarky with you.

:hi:

[last_texas_dem]

299. It's not for me

I have no interest in it. Closest I've come is being dragged into a Hooter's (and obviously there's a pretty big difference there...) by a friend once. I felt like a creep the whole time I was in there.

I'd rather be with someone who actually *wants* to be with me, or, if I'm going to ogle women, do it in the privacy of my own home.

But, as for others, it's up to them. If you're in a relationship and one of you is interested in this kind of thing, I definitely think this is something that should be worked out within the relationship. If one of you doesn't feel right about it, his/her reservations win out. If you're single, more power to ya, I guess...

[seabeyond]

342. be with someone who actually *wants* to be with me,

what a concept. lol.

appreciate your post. i love to hear it is not one size fits all. hubby keeps telling me, then i read du, lol

[grantcart]

300. Is this related to the "Pubic Option"

[redqueen]

310. Hahahahaha

[seabeyond]

343. your funny. are you feeling like you are being teeeeaaaased. lol nt

[Toucano]

304. It does not excite me. But I don't judge others in this matter. Stripping can be an art.

That is all.

[MissMarple]

308. Yuck...but, whatever.

I'd add to be sure to leave a big tip, but someone would probably make a very lame joke.

[morillon]

313. To each his own, vaya con dios, and all that.

Men and women are free to pay for them, and I'm likewise free to choose not to have sex with men and women who are into that kind of thing. I have very, very few deal-breakers from a sexual standpoint, but a previous history or current habit of going to strip clubs is one of them.

[Kalyke]

330. Thank you.

*I* consider it cheating.
*I* would divorce my husband.
And, *I* think a lot of women find it revolting and agree, but have been conditioned to let a man do anything he wants because "boys will be boys."
*I* don't share that viewpoint and
*I* am not a prude (ask my very satisfied husband).

:)

[and-justice-for-all]

315. That is a question you have to ask yourself...nt

[TexasObserver]

322. The Unrecommenders are keeping this thread from being seen!!

I just had to say that once.

Yeah, they're really keeping this sucker out of play, aren't they?

[BlooInBloo]

346. Keeping what from being seen?

:P

[seabeyond]

348. i never thought of rec/unrec in great page, popular post... what is it, never saw it in

those terms.

to me was saying

yea to a thread

or bloo to a thread

bah hahaha

i never go on that great page. what is it.

[BlooInBloo]

392. I went there some after the admin said how much better it was...

But I didn't really have a basis for comparison, since I never went there previously.

It's ok, but not really my thing. I just take the random waves that the forum itself chooses to give.

[TexasObserver]

358. Exactly!

So much for the fiction "unrecommend is censorship!"

[LeftyMom]

350. I'm not going to judge anybody else for what their relationship's ground rules are,

though I might think less of them if they hurt their partner by violating them.

As for my own relationship, I'm not big on setting up rules and telling my partner what not to do.

[flvegan]

360. WOO HOO!

I'll be back in a few hours everyone!!!

Where did I put my wallet?

[LeftyMom]

370. It's in your car.

[TorchTheWitch]

423. in my bank account via my legally approved coverage thong

Thank-you-very-much-see-ya-bye-bye.

NEXT!

:evilgrin:

[madokie]

354. call me david, call me madokie

or call me naive but what the hell is a lap dance?

[TorchTheWitch]

424. give me $30 and I'll give you a demonstration

:evilgrin:

[Mz Pip]

355. Seems like a big waste of money

but if some guy wants to throw his money away and there is a woman willing to take it - well they are consenting adults. the whole thing just seems silly to me.

[flvegan]

362. I think it's up to the parties involved.

I'm not one to really judge what other folks do with their time and money as far as consenting adults go.

[SoCalDem]

365. Those women are earning a living, providing a service

I guess as long as there are pathetic, lonely guys, or young guys out for a lark, who want lap dances, there will be women willing to provide the service.

A girl my son was madly in love with all through high school, became a stripper.. She was a very gifted dancer, and had a dance scholarship, but during the summer before she went to college, she met someone who talked her into working at his club..and you know the rest of the story..

The really sad thing is how everyone found out.

My son was working with her brother (they had broken up the year before), and a guy they worked with was getting married. they guys went to the strip club and Chad was more than a bit surprised when his little sister came out and proceeded to strip..he went onto the stage, dragged her off by her hair, and personally delivered her to their parents' house, wearing only his jacket, which he had thrown over her.. She was 18, but still...

It caused a huge rift in their family, and of course the news spread like wildfire. She moved away and no one knows much about her life anymore..

She did it because, with tips, she was making over $1k a week..

[TexasObserver]

368. Thank God she got away from that horrible family.

Hopefully, she'll find greater acceptance among her new friends.

Did she file criminal charges against her brother?

Does he think his family honor licenses him to physically abuse her?

And why didn't the club's bouncers throw his ass out? That part of the story seems a little lacking. He'd likely get his ass beat for that, and quickly.

[TheCoxwain]

426. That is so heartbreaking ..

This side of the story that is often ignored ....

The side involving the girl and their families.

[L. Coyote]

366. Everyone has an opinion on this, noone cares if the women in Hondusras work in sweat shops

under a right-wing coup.

DU'ers have really fucked up priorities!

Plus, the question should be, "Is it okay to support strip clubs in any shape or form?" Of course NOT!

[redqueen]

408. Oh please start that thread, with that question.

As for sweat shops, we actually do care. It's just that the issues there aren't so divisive. There is unanimous agreement about it, so there's little to discuss. (Well, nearly unanimous... I forgot about the free-traders for a moment.)

[MrSlayer]

367. Absolutely. If that 's where you want to invest your money, go right ahead.

It's just a big tease. If want to throw 20 bucks out the window for a minute of grinding with a hottie who has no real interest in you, that's up to you. I don't think it's morally wrong if that's what you're asking.

[TorchTheWitch]

369. Since I give them I'll chime in

What is "ok" for one person may not be "ok" for another. It's entirely subjective. For someone who is in a relationship where they know their SO would be hurt if they were to get a lapdance, then they should consider the feelings of their SO and examine their reasons for wanting to buy one. It can also depend on what sort of lapdance it is and the intensions of the person buying it. Some lapdances are practically "air dances" where nothing in particular occurs while others may be very hands on by both the giver and receiver and everything in between. Intensions matter as well... is the intent of the buyer a reason to grope at the naughty bits of someone they're attracted to or want to humiliate or to have that dancer fondle their naughty bits for the same reason and are they single or in a relationship where there SO doesn't have a problem with it? Is the intension of the buyer for the entertainment of their friends? Is the intension of the buyer to financially help out the dancer because they think she is nice and deserves to make the money?

Lots of things come into play here. What may be perfectly harmless entertainment for one person may be a relationship killer for another. Personally, I'd much prefer I was just tipped the money I would have made doing the dance without having to do it... easier money I don't have to work as hard for. But I'll certainly give a lapdance to anyone who will spend the money and plays by the rules, and I don't care what their intensions are or whether or not it may affect them personally.

[TheCoxwain]

395. Thank you for that perspective.

[TorchTheWitch]

397. You're very welcome n/t

[Missy Vixen]

422. Thank you so much for sharing your experience

Okay, dumb question: You mention that at some places, it's more like an "air dance", and others may get a little more explicit. Does the club involved set the rules, or does each dancer set his or her rules?

Again, thank you.

[bigwillq]

374. I am ok with it.

I have never gotten one, nor do I ever want to at a strip club, but I am ok with it. And I would be ok if a partner got one. That's just how I am. It's a freaking lap dance. If my partner enjoys it, why would I want to stop him? I am not the jealous type, esp. over a dance at a club that's meant to be a good time.

[MurrayDelph]

377. Where else? Church?

I cannot think of a more-appropriate place to get a lap dance.

I, personally, have not been in a strip club in over 15 years (and have been married for ten), but if a guy is going to get a lap dance
(i.e. consensual frottage from a willing temporary employee), then a strip club IS the correct place for this service.

[Lisa0825]

381. Female, divorced, and I say "depends." I have been to a strip club w/a date in another circumstance.

I was married to a guy who had the "Madonna-whore complex." He liked porn and strippers, but couldn't imagine his wife being naughty. He also was a selfish SOB in all ways. I worked 2 (sometimes 3) jobs to help him start his own business, but then he could spend $300 at a strip club with the guys, and be shocked when I was pissed after I found the receipt. This after he lost his libido to Prozac. THAT was when I felt cheated upon... when I started feeling left out.

So yeah, I can see where strippers and porn can be issues in a relationship. But because I have also been with guys without the "issues" he had, I can also see where it could be something crazy to do to spice thing up.

IMO, it is only wrong when it is not in the "agreement" of the relationship. And if both parties were smart, they figured that out before they signed any paperwork.

[seabeyond]

389. i dont see either strip club or porn inherently good or bad.

i agree with you post

and i like your sig. glad you have it on there for us as a reminder

[Gwendolyn]

391. Whatever.

As long as the dancer is not a coerced sex slave and the customer doesn't have the bubonic plague, who cares what people do or enjoy. And apparently, people do seem to enjoy them.

[Iggo]

393. Not married. Never have been. Never gonna be.

If you wanna, go ahead. If not, don't.

Interestingly, I had the opportunity and it didn't appeal to me.

But whatever floats your boat.

[cliffordu]

394. I think it's pathetic.

[seabeyond]

402. lol lol

you are another

that surprise me

often. lol lol

i have expectations (my fault) and then boom, you knock me on butt giving me the complete opposite

but

it does make it fun.

a couple posters are like that for me. always keeps me on my toes

[cliffordu]

406. I like the tear-your-clothes-off and bite your lip hour long sessions that

involve real sex and orgasms for everybody.


Lap dances are like everything else this country seems to embrace: A simulation of sex that's really just jerkin' the gerkin'.....

[seabeyond]

409. wink. nt

[cliffordu]

416. Right back atcha, kiddo....

:hi:

[BolivarianHero]

407. Other...

Laws regulating prostitution and strip clubs as they exist should be abolished and replaced by a new syndicalist regulatory regime that will legalize all such activities, but force participants to either form a labour union and or join an existing one, get tested regularly for STI, and report any abuse they suffer at the hands of clients or managements to a new law enforcement body.

:D:D:D:D:D

Then it would be okay.

[DevonRex]

413. It's legal. It's not my business if a person chooses to spend his time

in an icky manner with strangers. I hope the girls have good self esteem and don't feel degraded by their line of work. If they do feel degraded I hope they can find some other way to make a living or get some counseling on how to deal with it.

Edited to say that it's not my business as long as the person is not my husband. In that case, it damn well IS my business and I would consider it to be cheating.

[melm00se]

427. at some point in your life

you stop going to strip clubs

[Name removed]

430. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.