Obama has screwed the pooch by leaving HCR almost entirely to the Senate....

[FLAprogressive]

....instead of taking a more hands-on role and actually fighting for the public option. I have to wonder if he really supports it at all, or, as with his "fierce advocate" stance on gay rights, it's just something he says to appease the left.

"Well, we tried" no longer cuts it anymore....It's amazing how Bu$h could railroad his tax cuts through a senate where his party held a thinner majority and we can't even get decent HCR passed with 60 fucking votes!

[joeycola]

1. well said.

[timeforpeace]

25. Thought it was odd that he ran on this issue but came in without any plan of his own.

[rudy23]

2. I think he did exactly what he wanted to do. He's a corporatist.

He's clearly defined himself as not being one of us. I hear a lot of disdain for common people in Obama's speech.

[FLAprogressive]

3. I have a feeling that you're correct.

[earth mom]

58. I hated it when Obama referred to "personal responsibility" in his speech to school kids.

"Personal Responsibility" is a god damned rethuglican meme and if * had made that speech people would have been furious around here.

The O fans need to stop the drinking kool aid and wake up from their stupor!

[rubberducky]

4. I, personally, do not know what is in his heart.

It seems that he has repeatedly said he supports the public option to keep the ins. co. honest.

[FLAprogressive]

6. he also *said* he'd close gitmo by Jan. he also *said* he was a "fierce advocate" for gay rights.

Looks like GITMO won't be closing and I see nothing but lateral movement on gay rights.

[rubberducky]

14. We all want things done yesterday, but that is not reality in DC.

The man has only been in office for 9 months, the damage that was done in the last administration took 8 years. He is not a king that can govern by decree, we are a nation of great diversity and every single one of us has in our mind what WE would do in his position.

[flyarm]

18. oh come onnnnnnnnn..he made a deal with the devil.;.and the facts are hidden in the deal!

and they do not include the little folks..wake the fuck up!

[rubberducky]

21. And you KNOW this, how????

[FLAprogressive]

22. I think it's an easy conclusion. The people in charge of "reform" are bought & paid for by big

insurance and big pharma.

[rubberducky]

23. I think I will reserve my final judgement until we have a final bill.

[jgraz]

33. It will be too late then.

If you're not making noise now, you're not going to be heard.

[flyarm]

43. 50 years of watching the same bullshit over and over and over and over again..

thats how!

and one thing I know for certain..we the people don't count in the equation when these fuckers do deals!

And a deal was made with this White House and i have been warning about it from the get go..there will be no public option ..and do fucking remember..the public option was already a sell out to the corporate boys!..We have now been doubly sold out!

Enjoy your royal fucking..because it is because of naive people..and propagandists on the take..that we are now in this boat!

Get this straight..there are no longer two parties..there is one party, with one giant money pot in the middle..and you, nor I, nor the little people are invited to partake in the martini party !

[rubberducky]

52. Until we get corporate money out of campaigns, we will always have corporate input

in our government. Truely I understand your frustration. I have a huge personal stake in the public option. I have e-mailed,called, and personally written. I do not KNOW where Obama stands except by what he has said, that public option is the only way to keep insurance cos honest. All I know is this is closest we have come to healthcare for all of us. I`m doing all that I know how to do, but this is only ONE bill. We have other bills and mark-ups to get through. Before I write off Obama I want to see what is finally voted on and what he will sign and why.

[flyarm]

55. just try..you waste your life fighting it..I have already wasted too much of my time and big money

trying to get the fucking corrupt bastards out of my party and government..i fucking give up..not another dime of my money..not another minute of my time..fuck them all and those who go along with this shit!

[earth mom]

60. The only way to stop those bastards is to go all French on their asses but everyone is too afraid

or too overwhelmed trying to hang onto their jobs or homes to do it.

Not only that but those bastards use big weapons and nazi style tactics like they used at the G20 protests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJxEmUl8Qh4

or here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x380109

[undeterred]

5. He said he was willing to stake his presidency on health care reform

even if it means being a one term president.

[FLAprogressive]

8. well that looks like it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy if there's no public option.

[undeterred]

9. Yeah, if you're going to stake your job on something,

make sure its worth it.

[jeffbr]

7. Sadly my suspicion has been confirmed - AGAIN

Obama is for Obama.

[bigwillq]

12. Politicians are for politicians.

I never understood why so many people thought Obama would be different.

[paulk]

57. people thought he would be different

because he said he would be different...

[bigwillq]

65. Politicians say wanted they want

to get elected. People must be really gullible. There were some things Obama said that I liked, but I never for once thought they he can "make good" on the things he said. You take what they say with a grain of salt.

[paulk]

67. I agree

people are gullible and easily led

[flyarm]

56. +1!!!!!!!!!!!!! eom

[earth mom]

61. "Rock Stars" usually are. nt

[jgraz]

10. You're assuming he actually wants real reform

Obama is the smartest guy we've elected in recent memory, and Rahm isn't far behind. I can't believe they didn't see this coming.

[DrDan]

26. "smartest guy in recent memory" . . . hmmmm - at least back to the election of 2000

Not sure that applies to earlier elections.

[BlooInBloo]

11. And the anti-Obama people dance their jig.

[FLAprogressive]

16. the only people dancing are the insurance companies and the senators they've bought and paid for.

[BlooInBloo]

20. It alright - I know you people have been patiently praying for something like this....

Enjoy - it's your day!

[jgraz]

27. And "you people" have been consistently denying that this day was coming

Congratulations on all the hard work you didn't do.

[scheming daemons]

32. "this day" isn't even here. 4/5 of the committee bills have a P.O.

It doesn't matter what comes from this one committee.

The final bill that sits on Obama's desk *WILL* have a P.O.

[jgraz]

38. Do any of them have a *real* public option?

Or do they just have the fake 5% solution that's being used to con people?

[scheming daemons]

40. Well.. read the senate HELP bill... it has what you want

Whether that's the form it takes in the final bill... we'll see.

[jgraz]

42. The HELP bill is a perfect example of what I'm talking about

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2009/09/cbo-help-bills-public-plan-not-much-help-on-costs.html

Unless Ron Wyden gets his amendment passed, none of the Senate bills will have a universal public option.

[Greyhound]

13. "Ignore what they say, watch what they do." n/t

[bullwinkle428]

15. Let's do the math. Obama approval rating : 60-something %. Congress approval rating : around 10%.

Why was it so fucking difficult to figure out that the general public would be MUCH MORE OPEN to the idea of health care reform if President Obama was actually out front and leading the parade?

"Chill the fuck out everyone...Congress has got this" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

I know, I know...all of the "conventional wisdom" people will all jump in with the "ZOMG...look what they did to Hillary in 1993!!1!"

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TIME. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BAT-CHANNEL.

[Autumn]

44. "Chill the fuck out everyone...Congress has got this"

scares the fuck out of me. I wouldn't trust those bastards as far as I could pick up their collective asses and throw them.

[flyarm]

17. why would he fight for Public Option when he sold us out with deals with the big boys?

ARE SOME HERE STILL THAT NAIVE??? or is it fake anger ..what is it ..why are so many still so stupid????????

[Neecy]

19. Yep

After being promised transparency, we instead got closed door deals with Pharma. I knew then what we, the people, want was going to be totally ignored. But hey, we get to pay the bill!

[flyarm]

46. wait to see how angry people finally get that have decent insurance when they get the fucking that

is coming their way..

we have been sold out and the big boys are drinking their martini's on their private jets on there way to their yachts for a glorious week in the tropics!

count on it!

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. History is not yet written.

We know that doing it your way resulted in failure. We don't yet know that doing it Obama's way will.

[truedelphi]

28. It's worse than that. He ran around all summer

To these RW controlled Town Hall Meetings. In order to be so compliant with their agenda, he even approved of them bringing weaponry to their Town Hall meetings.

A friend of mine attended one of Lynn Woolsey's Town Hall meetings. She was embarassed for Lynn that the RW nut jobs were in control of the meeting.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that Town Hall meetings not be governed by civility. As an activist who has attended many a meeting in my life, civility was always REQUIRED. You signed in to whatever venue you attended - if you were planning on speaking. You did not speak out of turn. You were ushered out of said venue if you were unruly.

But Obama has allowed Civility to be seen as an unecessary trapping. It makes no sense to me.

[flyarm]

48. oh it makes all the sense..this is exactly what his agenda was from the get go..the only thing was

the Chess game was being played against dems..it was all planned this way..for a reason..to protect the deals he and Rahmn made to get re-elected..

problem is ..many of us..me included will sit out the next election and the elections of all the suckers who voted to fuck us!

[truedelphi]

49. I've got your back on every word of yr post. n/t

[flyarm]

51. and i have yours !! I am sick of this shit..another "TABLE " THAT WON'T GET SET!!

and i guess we will keep hearing from the appeasers that it is another fucking great chess game ..eh?????

Fed up and not taking this shit any longer!!!!!!!!

They can all go fuck themselves!

[earth mom]

62. I've got your back too and am so glad that both you & truedelphi and a few others are still here

speaking the truth amid all the denial and insanity.

:grouphug:

[flyarm]

64. back at'cha earth mom!! I came here because of truth..sorry to say i see little of it here today!

[truedelphi]

68. Hi Earth mom. Yes big group hug for us-um's

And we can include Michael Moore and Alan Grayson in all this hugging!

[earth mom]

63. TD-I've got your back & am so glad that both you, flyarm & a few others are still speaking truth

to power! :grouphug:

[WeekendWarrior]

29. I'm Predicting

That, in the end, there will be a public option.

I have nothing to back this up, just a gut feeling. Just as I had a gut feeling when everyone said Obama was shooting himself in the foot so many times during the election that he would pull it through in the end. I'm keeping the faith until the final bill appears.

[t0dd]

35. Well, Carper and Nelson did switch. It's progress. nt

[TomCADem]

30. How Does President Obama Constitutionally Get Around Approval By The Senate?

Doesn't the Senate need to pass a health care bill or was I mistaken?

[scheming daemons]

31. The OP wishes to blame Obama for not usurping the Constitution (like Bush did/would)

:shrug:

[jgraz]

34. There's this concept called "leadership" that I believe is permitted under our Constitution

Of course, you wouldn't know it from watching our president.

[scheming daemons]

36. When the final bill on Obama's desk *HAS* a P.O. in it, please resurrect this thread

... and see how silly you're being.

[jgraz]

37. It may have something they call a Public Option, but it will be neither Public nor an Option

At best, we'll get something that bans 95% of Americans from participation while including a universal mandate for private insurance.

If we somehow DO get a real public option that you and I can buy into, I'll be the first to celebrate how wrong I was. But I guarantee you this: we won't get a real public option unless a helluva lot of people start making a helluva lot of noise very soon.

[scheming daemons]

39. Whether that is true or not has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with today's committee vote

Using this procedural vote as a reason to start another bash-Obama thread is disingenuous bullshit.


We're not any closer OR further away from a Public Option than we were 3 hours ago.

[jgraz]

45. Here's how we're further away

If people continue to make excuses for Obama's weak leadership instead of turning up the heat. If Obama says nothing about Baucus' defeat of the public option, it will be a strong signal that he's willing to settle for less.

[rubberducky]

47. Thank you. We have a long way to go to a final bill.

[Autumn]

41. Very well said. Thank you

:kick: That is what I have been feeling.

[Terry in Austin]

50. Yeah, we should have elected the other guy instead

Not.

And Hillary's a known quantity when it comes to getting health care done, isn't she?

Face it, there's only so much that's realistic to expect from a US president. Even the best of them.

Personally, I think Obama does what's doable, and has a keen sense of exactly how much is doable, and when. He's got the right values and goals, but above all, he's a consummate political pragmatist. That's what will make him effective in the long run, and keep him from being just another ideological burn-out.

So -- stress not, make the popcorn, and watch the chess-game as played by a master!

[ShortnFiery]

53. That argument doesn't cut it anymore. Neither does "the ninja" or "chess master."

Obama could do great things if he'd get off this pragmatist bent. Michelle used to help him keep in touch with "the people" and their feelings.

I'm disappointed that he has NOT come out for a strong public option, chess master or not.

Why? We're going to get SHIT - a watered down shell of a Public Option that will only serve the best interests of the Insurance Corporations and the Upper 1%.

Business as usual. :(

[Ruby the Liberal]

54. What do you mean 'left it to the senate'?

There are 4 bills already out of committee -- each with a public option.

If anyone, blame Reid for not riding these DINOs harder and putting a blue dog at the chair seat of Finance.

[t0dd]

59. Cmon

Even today, after this defeat in the Senate Finance Committee, the WH responds still saying Obama is open to alternatives. Doesn't that get just a little old? Don't you finally get to a point where you say, I need to lead, this is what a majority of Americans want. I mean, come on.. really?

[GCP]

66. Heartily agree

But watch all the un-recs start as the true believers come out.
He could have been like LBJ and bully-pulpit the legislation through - LBJ spoke to everybody, kicked ass and took names to get Medicare and Medicaid.