How do you feel about vaccines?

[Chemisse]

We seem to have a wide spectrum of opinions on this topic at DU, that rear up with great enthusiasm quite frequently. This highly scientific poll should settle where we stand - as a united group - once and for all. :sarcasm:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. How do you feel about the holocaust?

Do you feel like it actually happened?

Is it all a conspiracy?

Did it sort of happen, but been wildly exaggerated by Hollywood?

[Chemisse]

3. Hahaha!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. They've got a lot in common. Holocaust deniers and anti-vaccers.

They're both liars.

They're both patently, absurdly wrong.

And they both kill people.

(Technically, I don't know if holocaust deniers have actually killed people. Theoretically their rhetoric could spread anti-semitism. And that could lead to hate crimes. Their danger is implicit. So anti-vaccers have them beat there).

[Chemisse]

5. Let me guess - you picked the first option in the poll didn't you?

[CoffeeCat]

8. But there is a common-sense middle ground here...

I'm not anti-vaccine.

My kids are all up-to-date on their vaccines. We've got a couple of doctors in our family
and I was a science writer before I became a stay-at-home mom. So, there is a lot of interest
and conversation surrounding the H1N1 vaccine--because it's interesting and smart to ask questions.

I'm not anti-vaccine--and I'm certainly not a cheerleader for H1N1. Somewhere in the middle--is
the voice of reason, don't you think?

To take either approach (anti vaccine or suggesting that H1N1 vac is 100 percent safe--seems wildly absurd.

We know that flu vaccines are generally safe, with some side effects. We also know that the last Swine Flu
vaccination resulted in 4,000 cases of Guillian Barre Syndrome.

It's not bad to ask questions, or to be concerned because no one knows the long-term effects of this year's
Swine Flu vaccines. The clinical trials just began a couple of months ago, so no long-term effects can possibly
be known.

There might not be any long-term effects. However, any good scientist will tell you that the possibility of
deleterious effects is within the realm of reality.

It's good to keep the conversation going because no doubt, there will be new information added in the coming days.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. In the same way there's common sense middle ground in holocaust denial, sure.

[CoffeeCat]

15. LOL...

You're funny.

Comparing Holocaust deniers to those who are pro-vaccine but question a very new H1N1 vaccine--is a
little extreme, don't you think?

I have a science background and I'm well versed in research and the scientific method. Anyone
who understands anything about science will tell you that many in the scientific community
are discussing this H1N1 vaccine.

It's also fact that the long-term effects of the H1N1 vaccine are not known--and cannot be known--because clinical
trials just began a few months ago.

I hope we can have an enlightening conversation about this without all kinds (as Obama would say) "silliness".
There's a lot of interesting science here, and it would be fascinating to learn more...

Does anyone know of what the H1N1 vaccine is comprised? Is it swine, bird and human virus combined? Is this
a virus combination that has been studied before?

Thanks for any information. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. It'd be a lot easy to take you seriously as "pro-vaccine"

...if you didn't post nonsense about vaccines being connected to autism.

and conspiracy theories about H1N1 being genetically engineered by the pharma companies to sell vaccines.

And shit about gardasil.

Oh, and yeah. I'm comparing anti-vaccers to holocaust deniers. And creationists.

[CoffeeCat]

31. You are a total reactionary.

You must have me confused with someone else.

Furthermore, you criticize one end of the scale--those who are against vaccines--yet you
are perched right on the other end of the scale--as you attack anyone who dares to ask
a question about anything.

I think it's clear to everyone that you're an extremist--who attacks anyone who asks
questions or is sceptical.

I don't agree with the anti-vaccine people, but I sure don't agree with someone who falls
in line lock, stock and barrel with every new product marketed by the pharmaceutical
companies. I think the vast majority of people fall in the middle, and most scientists
and researchers do not take the attitude that you have.

You are an extremest, and you don't know what you're talking about because you have completely
misrepresented my views.

But carry on with your arm flailing, name calling and classy language. :eyes:

Anyone here want to have an intelligent discussion about this?

[sendero]

26. It is idiocy...

... to take a vaccine for something that has a small likelihood of making you really sick.

Smallpox, polio, hell yeah. Swine flu, hell no.

[SIMPLYB1980]

2. Nazi.

[CoffeeCat]

6. It's not the vaccines per se...

I have two young girls. Both of them got their vaccines at 3 months, 6 months and five years. I bawled like
a baby each time, because they bawled like babies each time. However, I knew the vaccines were for their own
good and I feel we are lucky--as a society--to have these vaccines.

These vaccines have withstood the test of time. Clearly, they prevent and eradicate disease and they are
safe short-term and long-term.

I do have questions about the Swine Flu vaccine, mainly because the clinical trials only recently began. In my
area, in Iowa City, clinical trials began in late July. There are absolutely no long-term studies and no way
of knowing if there are deleterious long-term effects.

Do I think there will be long-term effects? Probably not. However, we just don't know yet.

Furthermore, the last Swine-Flu shot was rushed through in the same way, and 4,000 people got Guillain Barre Syndrome--a
very serious nerve disorder that causes muscle weakness and paralysis.

There's no reason to lose our heads over this. However, it is just prudent and smart to ask questions.

Vaccines are good. However, given the power corporations are given--namely the pharmaceutical companies--it is only
natural to question what we're injecting into our bodies and to dig further for information.

[Odin2005]

7. Count me in with choice number one!

:evilgrin:

*runs from mob of angry anti-vaxers*

[stray cat]

10. I like getting sick and hope to die of an infectious disease after I play the role of typhoid Mary

and infect those around me and kill the immune compromised. Bacteria, fungi and viruses should eliminate the human race and vaccines get in the way!

[laughingliberal]

11. Count me with other

I'll take the ones I feel I really need like recently I had a dog bite and did take a tetanus shot. Tetanus vaccines have been around for ages and have stood the test of time. I am leary of ones that get dumped out in record time and use the general public as their clinical trials. Not that I don't see a need for the H1N1 vaccine but I am someone quite susceptible to alterations in my immune system and choose to take my chances. That said, I am not in any of the groups most at risk for death from this flu. It's a calculated risk but isn't everything in life?

[conflictgirl]

12. I support the concept of vaccination

But I do not trust Big Pharma, sorry. The stuff they vaccinated for when I was a kid (late 70s/early 80s) all seems to be sound and has proven to be more or less safe by now. What I don't trust are the new vaccines that have been introduced within the past 5 years or so, hastily rushed onto the market, many of which didn't get adequate testing before receiving approval and have been associated with high rates of serious adverse effects and even deaths.

My distrust of the vaccine industry and things like Gardasil does not mean I don't support vaccination in general. I'm just not lining up to be a guinea pig for Merck just because vaccination in general is a good idea.

[ellenfl]

16. ditto! i chose 'other'. i won't take any otc pain med

except aspirin because it's been around forever and the risks are well known. nowadays, big pharma is all about money and cares not a whit about the consumer. it's that 'acceptable risk' thing. i don't believe anyone is expendable to the corporations' profits.

if my docs want to prescribe for me, i tell them i want tried and true.

as for gardisil . . . a 14 year old in britain just died after taking another maker's version of gardisil. that is unacceptable. i haven't forgotten thalidomide or des but apparently big pharma has. i will not be their guinea pig.

ellen fl

[LeftishBrit]

25. One person out of millions vaccinated..

you have to weigh the competing risks. Cervical cancer kills a lot more people.

All drugs and treatments (including 'natural' ones) have risks, and I think one needs to be aware of side effects and make one's choices accordingly. But *not* having treatments and vaccines has side effects too; and I am worried that there is so much focus on the 'big pharma may be pushing something unsafe' side of the equation that it may lead to ignoring the other side of the equation: 'big pharma and big insurance are denying poorer people their basic human right to medical treatment'. The conspiracy sites create scenarios of governments enforcing vaccines and other medical treatments at gunpoint - and while they create these imaginary fears, the insurance companies are bribing Democratic senators to vote against measures that would make *necessary* medical treatments available; and millions of children in poorer countries continue to die because big pharma makes necessary vaccines and medicines unaffordable to many of the world's poor. 'Fiddling while Rome burns', at best. This is the aspect of the anti-vaccine movement that worries me most; and no, I am not saying that everyone who refuses a vaccine subscribes to such conspiracy theories; not at all; but these theories do keep coming up.

[ellenfl]

27. i am not anti-vaccine. i am anti-big pharma pushing untested

medicines on us . . . especially on kids. gardisil was not properly tested. it remains to be seen what the fallout will be, especially considering the spate of recent recalls of medicines sold before their time. how many deaths are acceptable during the pharmaceutical company's involuntary human testing period? what if that was your child? i would go with the risk i know, not a brand new vaccine that MIGHT work to diminish that risk.

ellen fl

[LeftishBrit]

33. I agree with being cautious...

but it works both ways. What if it was your child, or you, who died of a preventable disease because a vaccine was not made available until too late? I've made decisions that could have had either type of risk - it's never easy. There is always a dilemma about what risks one (or one's government for that matter) should take and when - and not only about vaccines or even about health.

I wasn't accusing you of being anti-vaccine, or really arguing with your post at all. I am still reeling from finding yesterday that a few DU-ers think that far-right sources might sometimes be the most valid sources of info on such things, and that it is prejudiced to reject a right-wing CT site as a source of info.

[ellenfl]

34. i just think big pharma should give us all the facts so we

can make INFORMED decisions. as it stands now, they do their testing on us.

ellen fl

[Posteritatis]

30. People are shifting goalposts like crazy on the risk issue

Lately I've been seeing people seriously saying that one person, anywhere, having a side effect is too risky.

Of course, people who say that are idiots, fools and hypocrites, but if they're that deep into all three states they're unreachable anyway. Ugh.

[ellenfl]

35. we know there will be side effects for someone or two but we

should still not be used as test subjects. i will remind everyone again of thalidomide and des.

ellen fl

[DireStrike]

38. Beat me to it

I posted almost the exact same thing below.

[emilyg]

13. I believe in vaccines but NOT the

swine flu one.

[Zorra]

14. I haven't trusted vaccinations for adults since Reagan took office.

Figured RW corporations would start working on some weird ass plan to use biotechnology to make vaccines that turn people into sheep.

Far as I can tell, I was correct.

I've never gotten a flu shot and never gotten a flu.

[ellenfl]

18. i haven't gotten a flu shot since i was 17 and also

have never had the flu. i'm afraid i'll get deathly ill if i get one now!

ellen fl

[Posteritatis]

28. *foreheadsmacks* (nt)

[The Straight Story]

17. Your body, your choice (nt)

[depakid]

20. Actually- you and yours endanger others with libertarian or conspiracy theory angles

If it was only you and yours- that would be one thing. But it's not. Your body can harbors and spread pathogens that can (and will) kill innocent people- even if they're vaccinated.

Why?

Because vaccines don't always confer immunity- or do so at varying protective levels.

So the straight story is- that you put many others at risk through buying in to conspiracy theories- some of whom are already fighting for their lives through medications that causes their bodies to be uncompromised.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

21. Except that not everybody is able to be vaccinated.

The very young, the elderly and those with compromised immune systems do not always have the option of being vaccinated. These people rely on herd immunity to protect them.

[LeftishBrit]

24. In most situations, I agree

However, if someone is spending a lot of time around vulnerable people, e.g. a doctor, nurse, or careworker for elderly people, then I think they should get the vaccine.

Also, 'your choice' means that the vaccines need to be free; otherwise poor people will not have the choice.

[lostnfound]

22. People who ignore individual reactions to vaccines are anti-science.nt

[Posteritatis]

29. People who generalize from individual reactions are too. (nt)

[LeftishBrit]

23. I'll get the essentials, but usually not the seasonal flu jab

However, I will get the swine flu one this year when it's available.

If most people took the seasonal flu jab, or if I were likely to be spending a lot of time around very vulnerable people, I would get that too.

[Jennicut]

32. I get my flu shot. I am a diabetic and trust me, I don't want to get sick

When I get a cold it can take forever to get rid of it. My immune system is shot.

[omega minimo]

36. Why didn't you include a reasonable option? Is this just a joke to you?

[DireStrike]

37. Tried-and-true vaccines are a good thing

The hastily slung out crap today, notably gardasil, seems to have tons of adverse effects.


Why do I not trust newer vaccines? The FDA has been gutted, the scientific/medical establishment has been co-opted, infiltrated, bought off and otherwise silenced.... And these are not even necessity level vaccines.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. I had all my kids vaccinated

with what was available at the time, but I myself don't bother with flu shots or any of that. Since I had most of the childhood diseases when I was young, I have great natural immunity.