13---I say 13---- say it with me---13..... 13 years old....

[trumad]

2 years from 11---3 from 10---5 from 8.....13 years old.

I ask----what kind of sick fuck gives a 13 year old with drugs and alcohol and then fucks her in the ass?

This sick Motherfucker should have gotten 20 to life what he did----and those who defend him are just as fucking sick as he is...


<snip>
According to Geimer, Polanski asked Geimer's mother if he could photograph the girl for the French edition of Vogue, which Polanski had been invited to guest-edit. Her mother allowed a private photo shoot. According to Geimer in a 2003 interview, "Everything was going fine; then he asked me to change, well, in front of him." She added, "It didn't feel right, and I didn't want to go back to the second shoot.

Geimer later agreed to a second session, which took place on March 10, 1977 at the Mulholland area home of actor Jack Nicholson in Los Angeles. "We did photos with me drinking champagne," Geimer says. "Toward the end it got a little scary, and I realized he had other intentions and I knew I was not where I should be. I just didn't quite know how to get myself out of there." She recalled in a 2003 interview that she began to feel uncomfortable after he asked her to lie down on a bed, and how she attempted to resist. "I said, 'No, no. I don't want to go in there. No, I don't want to do this. No!', and then I didn't know what else to do," she stated, adding: "We were alone and I didn’t know what else would happen if I made a scene. So I was just scared, and after giving some resistance, I figured well, I guess I’ll get to come home after this".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski

Geimer testified that Polanski gave her a combination of champagne and quaaludes,<36> a sedative drug, and "despite her protests, he performed oral sex, intercourse and sodomy on her",<37><38><39> each time after being told 'no' and being asked to stop.

[cali]

1. Because no one has said this before here.

at least no one aside from a few hundred people.

[ShortnFiery]

2. But ... but the legal issues addressed are just fascinating!

:crazy:

[atreides1]

4. No one cares about the legal issues

It's all about vengeance for something that as far as I can tell no one here was personally involved in.

[27inCali]

34. for me its about being a father

and not wanting to live in a society that finds child rape acceptable or excusable in anyway shape or form because of the obvious danger that would pose to my daughters safety and mental well-being.

If you think it's just about vengeance, than you are either aren't a parent or just fucking stupid.

anyone who would try to make any argument why this man should not receive the appropriate punishment under the law is just disgusting, DISGUSTING and has no business referring to themselves as a Liberal or Progressive.

There are few crimes on the face of this Earth that come close to raping a child and truth be told, our current laws aren't punitive enough for the kind of sick fucks that do this shit. And every time some idiot like you tries to make an excuse of why it's a bad idea to see that this man is punished you do one of two things:

1) fulfill the absolute worst stereotypes of out of touch, out of control Liberalism that the RW Media is always trying to push -and in the process you undermine every progressive cause.

2) you help build a climate in our society where child rape is seen as somehow a complicated or nuanced situation when it's a simple black and white issue: it's fucking wrong, it's monstrous and evil and people who do these things deserve nothing but the worst we can give them regardless of their station in life. To do any less would be to betray the most vulnerable among us.

[ensho]

3. may the people in Hollywood that back him all fall down and

never get up.

[redqueen]

8. Hear hear. (nt)

[Maru Kitteh]

10. +1

[closeupready]

5. You want lame? Lech Walensa calling Polanski's crime a 'youthful indiscretion'.

or an objectionable action of his "youth". And remember, Polanski was 44 at the time. Now, THAT is lame and unreal. :mad:

[woodsprite]

6. And the mother was where during these photo shoots?

Was anything ever said about her being charged too?

[TorchTheWitch]

12. charged for what?

Being naive? She should have known that a famous director that wanted to photograph her daughter for business purposes was a filthy pig of a child rapist so it's her fault?

Enough of this blame everyone but the filthy pig of a child rapist bullshit.

[pipi_k]

28. Naive?

IMO, the ONLY innocent one in all of this was the girl herself.

Polanski committed a crime.

The mom...I don't care how naive people want to think she was...is also to blame.

My mom wasn't the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree...still isn't...but years ago when I was about this girl's age, a boyfriend of our next door neighbor was into photography and had asked my mom if he could take me to a park (out of state) to shoot some pictures of me on the swings, in the flower gardens, etc.

She said "no".

At that age, it never occurred to me why she would not let me go with him...as I got older I realized that her first job was to protect me, which she did.

She had also been approached a few times when we were younger by men the family did business with who asked if they could take me and my two sisters out for ice cream, etc.


As her mom, this girl should, at the very least, have INSISTED upon being there for photo shoots or whatever.

So yeah...part of the blame falls on her as well.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Because it's got to be everyone else's fault besides the rapist's.

Look, I'm not about to give her a Mother of the Year award and maybe she should have been charged with negligence and endangerment, but she didn't commit the rape. Polanski did. Focusing on the behavior of the girl and her mother only serves to distract and excuse Polanski.

[subcomhd]

7. Polanski? is he in trouble or something?

[NashVegas]

9. A Scared 13 Year Old, Trumad

that needs to be added again, and again. Roman Polanski raped a scared 13 year old kid.

[Raschel]

11. And he was forty - something years old. What a pig.

[mnhtnbb]

13. If you're going to convict Polanski, then the mother should have been charged, too

with child endangerment.

I mean, c'mon. The film industry is notorious for casting couch behavior. What mother in her right
mind allows an unaccompanied 13 year old to go on a photo shoot?

[NashVegas]

14. Did She Rape a Scared 13 Year Old Kid?

[mnhtnbb]

15. She set her child up to be raped.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/71943/child_endangerment_in_criminal_law.html?cat=17

[NashVegas]

16. Was She Standing There Holding a Gun to a Powerful Movie Director's Head

Insisting he rape her scared, 13 year old kid?

[mnhtnbb]

17. The movie director would never have had the chance to rape her

if the mother had protected her from the situation by insisting that she be present for any photo shoots.


The child endangerment law allows prosecutors to hold parents and caregivers criminally accountable for reckless and negligent behavior that places a child in jeopardy. Specifically, the bill adds criminal negligence, a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, to the state's child cruelty statute.

[NashVegas]

20. You Believe He Is Not Responsible For His Actions?

[mnhtnbb]

21. The girl didn't want to go to the second photo shoot alone. Where was the mother?

Why didn't the mother know her daughter was uncomfortable? For my money, the mother
should be held accountable for allowing the situation to occur. If the photo shoot had been supervised
by the mother--or the mother's adult representative--the rape never would have occurred.

I have never said that Polanski shouldn't be held accountable for his actions. But he's not the only
adult who mistreated the girl; her mother endangered her, too.

[NashVegas]

22. So She's a Crappy Mom ...

Different issue.

Human beings are able to function at their best, most confident, when we are able to trust and not have that trust abused.

This is why we don't go around blaming victims for crimes against them. Roman Polanski is the sole person responsible for raping a 13 year old kid.

[wolfgangmo]

23. Where do you get that from the post you are replying to?

S/He is talking about the culpability of the parental units.

The facts are that he was charged and pled guilty. So ... he's guilty. I don't know anyone who is disputing that.

Do you think that the mother was culpable in any contributory or negligent way? I do.

[NashVegas]

24. Because Everything Else Is Deflecting Responsibility

"Yeah, but ..."

If I carelessly drop a $100 bill at your feet, and you pick it up and run away with it, you're a thief. It doesn't matter that I wasn't looking at what I was doing, you chose to pick it up and run. You're a thief.

[mnhtnbb]

25. No. The mom did not behave responsibly.

http://www.educatingyoungstars.com/Info%20For%20Parents%20Main.htm

Information about working hours, conditions, permits, schooling, parental roles/responsibilities,
guardianship issues for minors in the TV/movie business.



Note below the admonition to "Don't ever leave your child unattended on the set."

And particularly the very last line: "A parent or guardian must be present at all times when a minor is working and has the right to be WITHIN SIGHT AND SOUND of the minor at all times."

The mother endangered her child by not acting responsibly and according to well accepted guidelines
for working minors in show business.


PARENTS' ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES



Parents' DO's and DON'T's on the Job:



DO's


DON'T's

KNOW the rules and regulations which govern the employment of your child, as well as your responsibilities. Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your child's safety and welfare.


DON'T assume anything. When in doubt, ask. Call the Union

BRING social security number, work permit and I-9 identification.


DON'T forget. Your child will not be allowed to work without these documents.

PLAN to arrive on the set 15-30 minutes early.


DON'T be late. DON'T bring other children, relatives or friends to the set.

CHECK-IN with the designated person on the set, usually the A.D. (Assistant Director) or the Stage Manager. Also, check in with the teacher if there is one.


DON'T ever leave your child unattended on the set.

SIGN a completed copy of your child's contract for the job before your child begins work. (Be sure all blanks are filled in.) Call your agent if there are any problems or questions.


DON'T allow your child to begin work if you have not received a contract, and don't sign the contract if it differs in any way from your understanding of the terms of employment. This is Union Rule!

STAY within sight and sound of your child on the set. It is always your right to do so, but be unobtrusive about it.STAY within sight and sound of your child on the set. It is always your right to do so, but be unobtrusive about it.


DON'T bother other actors, the director or crew members. Keep out of the way while watching your child on the set.

BRING at least three hours of schoolwork if your child is being tutored on the set. Be prepared to supervise your child during meal periods and non-school times.


DON'T interrupt the classroom or "hang out" with the teacher and your child during school time.

SPEAK UP if you feel your child is working too long without a rest break or being asked to do something you feel he/she should not be doing.


DON'T be intimidated into yielding to unreasonable requests or making exceptions to provisions in the contract.

TELL your agent ahead of time if your child has special food or medication requirements, or if your child has unusual educational course work, so proper arrangements can be made, or bring the necessary items yourself, where possible.


DON'T wait until the last minute to arrange for your child's special needs (e.g. food, medication or specific educational requirements.

SIGN OUT at the end of the work day.


DON'T let anyone else sign out for your child.

[EmilyAnne]

30. Holy Shit! What is with you people? Its OK to rape 13 year old girls with irresponsible parents?

And what's this about "child endangerment.?
At least you admit the girl was a child.
I suppose some progress has been made.

[mnhtnbb]

32. "you people"? I would like parents to be held responsible for

endangering their children in ALL situations where children are put in jeopardy. That's what's up with
this 'people.'

Read my post #25

If the mother had behaved responsibly by sticking to well accepted guidelines for treatment
of minors in show business, the rape never would have happened--at least during the photo shoot.

The mother's irresponsible behavior set up the situation for her child to be raped. That doesn't
excuse Polanski's behavior; it asserts that the mother had a legal obligation to protect her
child from a potentially harmful situation according to generally accepted industry guidelines.

[geek tragedy]

37. For every rapist, there are ten apologists who want to blame a woman. nt

[mnhtnbb]

39. I'm not apologizing for Polanski; I want parents held legally accountable

for violating--in this case, California Penal Codes--child endangerment statutes.

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/11164-11174.3.html

[geek tragedy]

42. Leaving a child in the company of a famous

director with no criminal record is endangerment?

[mnhtnbb]

44. It is commonly accepted--and recommended practice-- that no minor

is to be on set--whether film or photo shoot-without the parent or guardian present at all times.

[hfojvt]

18. is that the average age of a soldier in Vietnam? n/t

[cliffordu]

19. You are exactly right. How much was the mother paid in the settlement, anyway??

[TorchTheWitch]

26. She wasn't

The victim brought the civil suit when she was in her 20's. Had the victim been a minor at the time of the suit her mother could have brought the suit on her behalf, but the money goes to the victim and is held in trust for them until they reach they age of majority.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

27. What are the real facts of this case?

Personally, I am sitting on the fence here and have decided not to join the thundering herd, either to condemn or defend Polanski. Basically, I'd like to know the facts. Grand Jury testimony is not the distillation of facts in a full legal process. The Grand Jury does not allow due process, it doesn't allow the accused's attorney to be present, it doesn't allow cross examination, it doesn't allow rebuttal witnesses to be called, it doesn't allow contradictory evidence to be introduced. While I have no reason to doubt the girl's statements of facts, I have nothing else to go on and Grand Jury testimony is highly prejudicial and unreliable because a Grand Jury is the prosecutor's show. The prosecutor shows only one side of the evidence and coaches the witness to testify in the manner they want, mentioning only the things they want.

Polanski entered a plea bargain, it's true. But many completely innocent people enter plea bargains on the advice of counsel. It depends what they have to plead to and what the agreed-upon sentence is. It depends on the risks of going to trial and what kind of sentence they otherwise might serve if found guilty. In a 'he said', 'she said' situation, where particularly inflammatory evidence will be introduced and the accusing witness is particulary sympathetic, an attorney will often counsel his client to plead to a certain crime in order to avoid a much higher sentence in case the matter goes to trial.

In the case of the mother being involved and a civil suit for money damages being on the horizon, there may be even the greater possibility of manufactured or unreliable testimony.

As mentioned, I'm not coming down on either side of this. But I don't have a herd mentality here and I suspect there might be other agendas on the table in this discussion, whether a law and order agenda, a feminist agenda, a religious one, or something else. The fact is, we haven't had the benefit of a trial where the full story would come out. We've had Polanski agreeing to a lesser crime in exchange for a light sentence, which occurs on a daily basis in our criminal system, often regarding people who are completely innocent. Polanski may very well be scum and so far the side of the story we hear suggests it. But I would prefer to have the whole story on the table. If Polanski comes back for sentencing and his attorneys move for a new trial based upon the fact that the terms of his plea bargain were violated, then we may get the opportunity to have the entire matter and all sides presented. Until then, I'm not going to sling mud.

[graywarrior]

31. Don't ever read Kinski's auto biography

Your head will explode.

[NashVegas]

36. Father or Daughter?

[graywarrior]

38. Dad.

Sick bastard.

[JerseygirlCT]

33. Totally with you, Trumad. nt

[dogday]

35. I look at my daughter who is 14 and think what would

I do if it was her...


I cannot post what I would do, use your imaginations....

[trumad]

45. I too have a 14 year old daughter....

Is the Mom an idiot for not supervising her daughter better---perhaps.

Is Polanski a sick son of a bitch for fucking a drugged 13 year old in the ass.... ? Oh but there are a few here and in Hollywood that seem to think not.

Amazing?

Trust me---if the dude wasn't famous, every apologist would be calling for castration. Oh but he directed Rosemary's Baby so he's special.

[liberalhistorian]

40. I so totally agree, and I've never been able to stomach

Polanski because of it, I don't care how good his "work" supposedly is. It's sick, it's wrong, and he needs the book thrown at him asap. I don't care if it's been forty years, I wouldn't even care if it were fifty or sixty or seventy years. He makes me sick and the fact that he's playing the "victim" makes me even sicker. Sick fuck.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. I wonder if this thread was unreced because it is another Polanski thread or if it is out of support

for Polanski.

[SIMPLYB1980]

43. I don't know but I gave it a

K&R.