"There's nothing civil or right about using the 'n' word"...

[OneGrassRoot]

There's an 11-year-old boy on CNN who evidently is petitioning to ban use of the "normal" word.

His name is Jonathan McCoy.

Great kid. He's against rappers using it, saying it disrespects the movement, and MLK, Rosa Parks, etc.

He then said the above quote.

Bravo!

:)

I'll come back with a website if there is one.

[Yuugal]

1. just what we need, more censorship

If the majority should someday decide Democrat is a bad word is that gone too? Authoritarian libs make me puke, young or old.

[noiretextatique]

3. he's an 11 yo african american boy

i doubt that he is a liberal authoritarian. he has a speech about his views on youtube.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. Seriously?

:eyes:

[OneGrassRoot]

2. LOL!

They didn't mention a website or anything, but at the end the interviewer (I think Don Lemon?) asked, "Are you sure you're 11?"

The kid was so well-spoken.

He said he was and followed up with, "Do you need to see a birth certificate?"

It just felt like a beautiful slam against the birthers!

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

4. bwahaahahaa!!!

[Soylent Brice]

21. zing!

[emilyg]

5. K/R

[sui generis]

7. Here's where the idea in language bothers me

Gay and Queer were once the normal word. We have learned that any word, improperly used, can be either or both a pejorative or a term of endearment, but somehow this word is supposed to have so much more shit hanging on it that it requires BANNING.

Let everyone make up their own mind. The haters will still sound like haters. The stupid and ignorant will still sound like they haven't gotten very far from the street, and the rest will find better ways to say what they mean.

I'm queer and banning the word bans a part of me. Is banning a part of me any less rude than vociferously pointing it out?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. Speaking as a Polish-American....

...if I never hear the word "polock" again, or any inane joke using the word, I'd be quite happy.

I'm sorry, but I see no use for racial/ethnic/what-have-you slurs in society today.

[sui generis]

15. it's always risky

being the contrarian on a topic like this. It sounds like I'm in favor of something when I'm not. I am in favor of choice - and to clarify, of educating people to make the better choice.

"Ban" is making a choice for someone, and in language, banning a word is like banning thinking. I get that we can't own every word we don't like to desensitize ourselves to it, and especially that we shouldn't need to.

But even within the gay community there are people that hate the word "queer" and others that take no notice of it because it is so meaningless as a pejorative. Life is complicated and language is complicated by context. A simple blanket rule is inappropriate even if it seems like the right thing - especially if it takes away choice.

I guess for the record, I hate all potty mouth rules for the same reason - let the haters use it in hate and you'll know who they are. Let the ignorant use it in ignorance and you'll know who they are. Let the rest choose not to use it and you'll know they know better.

[Kajsa]

19. +1.

:thumbsup:

[Javaman]

10. Please explain to me how the "N" word was ever a normal word?

I love to hear your explanation on that one. Because I bet you will be talking completely out of your ass if you try.

Here are the follow definitions for Gay, Queer and "N".
What was that you were saying?

gay  /geɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, adverb
Use gay in a Sentence
See web results for gay
See images of gay
–adjective 1. having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2. bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.
3. given to or abounding in social or other pleasures: a gay social season.
4. licentious; dissipated; wanton: The baron is a gay old rogue with an eye for the ladies.
5. homosexual.
6. of, indicating, or supporting homosexual interests or issues: a gay organization.

QUEER
queer  /kwɪər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, verb, noun
–adjective 1. strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular: a queer notion of justice.
2. of a questionable nature or character; suspicious; shady: Something queer about the language of the prospectus kept investors away.
3. not feeling physically right or well; giddy, faint, or qualmish: to feel queer.
4. mentally unbalanced or deranged.
5. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a. homosexual.
b. effeminate; unmanly.

6. Slang. bad, worthless, or counterfeit.

–verb (used with object) 7. to spoil; ruin.
8. to put (a person) in a hopeless or disadvantageous situation as to success, favor, etc.
9. to jeopardize.

–noun 10. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a homosexual, esp. a male homosexual.
11. Slang. counterfeit money.

And here is the "N" word...

"N"
nig⋅ger  /ˈnɪgər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA
Usage note:
The term nigger is now probably the most offensive word in English. Its degree of offensiveness has increased markedly in recent years, although it has been used in a derogatory manner since at least the Revolutionary War. Definitions 1a, 1b, and 2 represent meanings that are deeply disparaging and are used when the speaker deliberately wishes to cause great offense. Definition 1a, however, is sometimes used among African-Americans in a neutral or familiar way. Definition 3 is not normally considered disparaging—as in “The Irish are the niggers of Europe” from Roddy Doyle's The Commitments—but the other uses are considered contemptuous and hostile.

–noun 1. Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. a. a black person.
b. a member of any dark-skinned people.

2. Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.
3. a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks; a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised.

[sui generis]

14. Let me be REALLY CLEAR HERE

Queer is every bit as sick as nigger. You don't have the edge on prejudice, and worse, you want to claim it because of skin color, not because of something you have to admit to or be accused of.

Do NOT speak to me of semantics.

I stand by what I said: we should choose for ourselves. You do not get to choose for me. Ever.

Oh and another thing - I accept your challenge for a rude-off, if that's what it was. Fasten your seatbelt brother, this ain't my first time to the rodeo.

[Javaman]

17. You said...

"Gay and Queer were once the normal word. We have learned that any word, improperly used, can be either or both a pejorative or a term of endearment, somehow this word is supposed to have so much more shit hanging on it that it requires BANNING."

somehow? It has always been used as a derogatory term.

I think you got lost in your OWN semantics.

This isn't a matter of being rude. I'm just pointing out the history.

If you choose to be rude, that is your choice, not mine. I'm just pointing out the root of the words and as such, and not to making the mistake that the "N" word was ever used for any other purpose other than to be racist, discriminatory and to castigate.

As far as Gay and Queer, I pointed out that yes, they were once used and still used in some circles as part of the common vernacular, but given it's most recent history (20th and 21st century), they are now associated with the Gay community. Determining how they are used, is what is being called into question. I know very well that they are used among the Gay community much as the "N" word is used among the African American Community.

But given the roots of these words, I don't see how you can equate the meanings on the same footings.

You said it yourself, "these words gay and queer were once "normal" words". I certainly don't think, without a doubt, that the "N" word can be even considered the same as those two other words under your term of understanding.

[sui generis]

18. Well that was a more civil answer than your first reply

I'll be frank. I don't care about the history of either word. I view them as equally hateful when used hatefully.

We are not responsible for carrying the burdens of those words into our private lives, as gay, queer or black as any of us are.

When I'm being told I need to be outraged by the use of a word, even by a saintly idealistic eleven year old, I've got a lot more livin' under my belt.

Don't need to quote history to me - we're living in the present, we are the history of our children. I have no obligation to assume the crash position every time I hear someone yell queer as an invective or use it casually in conversation, and the same applies for any other word, including the childishly renamed "N" word.

We're not responsible for "how" a word used, just how we choose to react to it. Having said that, casual conversation and "formal" conversation do not mix at all. As an example we don't say we don't discriminate on the basis of skin color, queerness, etc. as part of my company's mission statement, and it is inherently understood, without "banning" the word queer, that it would be inappropriate, yet is it perfectly appropriate for us to say amongst ourselves and friends.

That's as far as I would go to saying there are guidelines to the use of these "normal" words (BTW a play on the "N" word, as "normal", not at all the original meaning of "normal"), the main guideline being you decide for yourself and nobody else. Formal language decides for groups, so it's not appropriate there, and I personally of course find the "N" word hateful and ugly and can't ever see it as anything else for my own choice of language.

I also don't like scripture and "the word" and "the bible" - I just can't ascribe holy or unholy powers to the written or spoken symbol - it's atavistic, and I'm a modern human.

[Javaman]

20. "We're not responsible for "how" a word used,"

fine, go with that, see how long it works for you.

Tootles.

This discourse has run...its course.

[sui generis]

25. It works toots

Just as you are able to unanimously shut down a conversation by not participating, THAT's how it works in real life.

How old are you, like 13 or 14? You sound like it.

Clearly you had no interest in discussion, just posturing. Looks good on you - I've seen your shit posts before, but took the trouble to explain MY point of view. I'm not asking you to agree, but clearly you require lock step unanimity or you don't want to talk. That's just adolescent - so please feel free to use your ignore button so your feeling won't get hurt by MY use of language.

[Javaman]

27. If you think by just pushing this forward by responding with more

odd responses, well, knock yourself out.

It seems this tactic works for you.

Have fun.

As far as the discourse, it ended the first time you tried justifying your position.

I'll just kept feeding you the rope. I wanted to see how long you felt you needed to continue this ridiculous subthread.

Apparently, you feel you don't have enough rope yet.

Tootles. :)

Have a good one.

[sui generis]

29. I suspected

that you weren't reading everything, or comprehending, now I'm sure.

Do you have a point? Did you even read anything I said? Apparently not - so before you think I'm in favor of using the word Nigger, which you apparently do, read it all again.

I'm not even going to ask if you have any "skin" in this game, because I'm almost 1000 percent certain you are slightly whiter than my teeth, don't have the same arrangement of pink parts, don't really like or understand teh gay, and probably not very well socialized in the real world.

Tootles to you too toots, not moving this forward since you aren't required to reply.

:hi:

[Javaman]

30. Should I keep playing it out or do you want the whole run of it?

step away from the computer, it's a machine, not your friend.

It seems you enjoy keeping the conversation going even when I have stopped.

So that only means one thing, you enjoy listening to yourself.

Much as I have suspected all along.

And your flagrant use of the "N" word is pretty apparent as to where you stand in life.

[sui generis]

31. I've been waiting for the posse to ride in . . .

crickets. That's cause the posse can read. Look out there's a bunch of rope and some ridiculous child all tangled up in it flapping her arms and making faces at everyone.

Shouldn't you be in school? are you texting this from remedial english class?

Yer on your own javawench. There is no posse.

[Javaman]

32. Huh, interesting...

in your previous post you alluded to some sort of racist overtone, I find that really interesting. Since I don't use the "n" word, you claim that I'm white.

Now you go off an a bizarre tangent about, god knows what, regarding Posse's?

I don't even know where to start on that one. It doesn't even make sense.

The accusation you use, now trying to defend yourself in regards to this discourse, by saying that I'm white, only underscored your bigotry by saying in essence, that because you believe me to be white, my opinion no longer counts.

Fine, have fun with that.

You are an exhausting person who seems hell bent on being right. I knew you would respond, most obsessive compulsives do. So knock yourself out. Reply to me, accuse me with unfounded beliefs, call me what ever you want, but you like to predict without any sort of reality based information; who I am, what my life is like or what my life experiences are.

Ammunition of the ignorant is fictitious accusations.

Tootles, you are now blocked. And since you know this, I know you will still respond; knowing that I can't read it, only to show you got in the last word. :) That would be typical of you.

[sui generis]

33. apparently still can't read

or did read and not comprehend. Now she makes yet another face, pouts, and flounces off in a huff of a righteous and lonely hissy fit.

Yay, do us all a favor and please keep me on "block" now that you've embarrassed yourself so thoroughly. It will ease your pain at being caught out and you won't have to admit you're secretly reading this by responding with yet another loony post. Take something for the PMDD and lay down - things will look different tomorrow, and hopefully I'll still be on "block". :P :evilgrin: :bounce:

There is nobody here who has read anything I've said with the same bizarre negativity and malice that you have, or if they had would have allied themselves with you. That's saying something.

Javaperson, here's to more thoughtful posting from you some other day.

[Javaman]

28. If you think by just pushing this forward by responding with more

odd responses changes your odd point of view well, knock yourself out.

It seems this tactic works for you.

Have fun.

As far as the discourse, it ended the first time you tried justifying your position.

I'll just kept feeding you the rope. I wanted to see how long you felt you needed to continue this ridiculous subthread.

Apparently, you feel you don't have enough rope yet.

Tootles. :)

Have a good one.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Oh lord. Not again.

[subcomhd]

11. ban a word? ban?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[timeforpeace]

12. I abhor it more than any other word, absolutely, but we don't ban words in this country, I hope.

[OneGrassRoot]

13. Oy......okay, how about this...

The kid's primary intent was to EDUCATE others -- especially other African-Americans -- who were using the word without thought.

They used the word "petition" in the intro, but I'm not sure the child is truly starting a petition, as they didn't reference a link or mention it again that I heard.

He did a great job explaining the dictionary definition of the word, the common use of the word, and why he believes it does a great disservice to everyone when ANYONE uses it.

Can we give the kid props for wanting words to be used properly, and hateful words not used, rather than being obsessed with the word "ban"?

Words won't be banned. Bringing attention to hateful language is always a positive thing, IMHO. Nothing legal going on here.

I thought it was a great quote.

Silly me. This IS DU. The most innocuous posts turn into full-on brouhahas.

:eyes:


ON EDIT: This thread is a perfect example of how people miss the forest for the trees so often on DU and other large sites. And why negative threads get so much more interaction than anything positive. Shit....even the positive stuff is quickly twisted. What a shame.

[Orsino]

16. We don't need any one master plan.

For everyone with the great new idea of simply banning certain speech, there's someone else who wants to "take it back," or otherwise reeducate.

The important thing is to evolve past the hate speech. We can do that without either wallowing in it or burning any copies of Huckleberry Finn.

[seabeyond]

22. sittin in convenience store, kid blasting radio, rap song talking n*gger, this and n*gger that. fuck

your mama ect... i am going to fuck you mama good.

actually a rap song where words were clear. my kids older, and hear the shit, but still....

but there were two little girls, 5, 6, black, sittin in car with mother and grandma, looking up at the truck, listening to it

i gotta wonder?

people that say

everyone worried about the kids, stop. our world too. just turn it off.

people say kids should not be exposed to a lot of this adult shit, yet we continually expose them to crap

how are we suppose to feel, as not to be a prude, when i listen to a song repeating the N word, fuckin moms, with a black family and a couple little kids?

i am curious. was thinking about that. i am often being labeled. is it prudish of me i would rather that not happen?

[BolivarianHero]

23. He'll understand soon enough...

The concepts of reclamation, context, and connotation are difficult for one so young to grasp. Still, his heart is in the right place and I can understand why it would bother him.

[Toasterlad]

24. Just Throw Those Copies of Huck Finn Right on the Fire, There.

[tuckessee]

26. Something else will take its place.

The idea that banning a word will change society is certifiably naive.