My brother's laptop and iphone were just seized at customs

[MelissaB]

in Detroit. I thought they couldn't do this anymore. WTF? Does anyone know if this is legal (as if it ever were)?

He was flying from Japan (but originally from Thailand) to Detroit and now has no laptop. Customs told him it could take 4-6 weeks to get it back. He asked it this was legal and they said, "Yes."

[virgogal]

1. Scary stuff. eom

[crim son]

2. It shouldn't be legal! but it probably is.

Relinquishing your laptop is often more than just an inconvenience. If nothing is found, they should have to pay for every day they keep it. I'd be so pissed off if I was your brother!

[endless october]

3. maybe get the media involved.

sometimes they love stories like that, and it could put some heat on customs to relinquish the hardware.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. You brother was profiled as a sex tourist, happens all the time

Under the auspices of customs inspection they can confiscate virtually anything and detain anybody.

The firm I work for had to start World War Three to get a confiscated laptop back.

We are now supposed to nuke our hard drive with a special CD and reload windows off a USB drive before going through US customs. The consequences to us if we had a privacy breach of EU citizen data are too severe to even contemplate.

[MelissaB]

11. A flight attendant pretty much told him that several years ago after another incident

in Detroit. She also told him that he didn't have to give them any information, etc. I really think it's because he travels to Thailand so much and that photo of my daughter I posted about upthread (I think).

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. Thailand? They are probably looking for child porn.

[MelissaB]

7. Well, they won't find it. He went through a search like this in Detroit several years ago and they

asked him questions for hours (literally) about every photo on his computer. I think what triggered it is a photo of my daughter he had painted for me in Thailand. Nothing was showing. She was wrapped in a blanket made by our mother. I think this may have put him on some watch list. That's my theory anyway. I don't know what else it could be.

[timeforpeace]

15. He's been through this before? I'd say your theory is correct.

[MelissaB]

17. They searched his computer and detained him for hours then. This time they kept the computer

and iphone. He'll have to buy another computer at this point because he has to have one. He hasn't had trouble coming back into the US the last few times, but Detroit is where they hassle him.
FYI: he travels a lot.

[HipChick]

25. Trouble before? He's flagged somewhere..in a database..you should find out why?

[TransitJohn]

51. What does Thailand have to do with child porn?

:shrug:

[grasswire]

6. the lesson here is to put critical documents on a jump drive

....so you will retain them if something happens to the laptop. Oh, and I wonder about storing passwords on the laptop, too? I wouldn't do that if there were any chance of it being lost or confiscated.

[MelissaB]

9. He has personal and business information on that computer

as well as passwords to bank accounts, etc. They have access to EVERYTHING. Could cops come into your house and demand to see your bank statements, have all information to your business and personal email accounts? Nope, but custom's can look at it and copy it. The more articles I read as I'm searching for information, the worse it gets. It looks like they can keep his computer and copy the information.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. Coming into the country is different that a search of the residence

You have no privacy, consent, or other rights when coming across the border.

I use encrypted Linux and stash a memory card key else where. It won't even boot without it. Last few international trips they have not even asked to turn it on. I also minimize what I carry. Carrying everything you own on a computer internationally is just dumb.

[DireStrike]

12. That's ONE Of the lessons

The other being that the 4th amendment is down and being kicked. Hard.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. Actually its not a 4th amendment issue

Being required to turn over password or keys is not a 5th amendment issue either.

[DireStrike]

29. How is it not?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Are you disputing that it's unreasonable? Are you saying there is probable cause? Are you alleging that data does not count as a paper/effect? If so, what about the laptop itself?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. I am saying that at the border, its not applicable

Which is the historic interpretation. Until you clear customs at a port of entry you are not "in the country". Border entry searches and requirements are not limited by the Constitution.

Not saying I agree or like it, its law, and not just in the US.

[DireStrike]

41. Ahhh, I see.

Makes sense. It's still abusive to use it this way, of course, but I see.

Welp, guess Americans can no longer travel with any expensive electronics. Carry your data on cheap little sticks, make backups and leave it at home. Post it somewhere you can download it later. Don't have a computer where you're going? Tough shit. :mad:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. The push for this was sex tourism to SE Aisa.

If you are coming back from there and have electronics, stand by...

[RC]

20. No. They can confacate the flash drive also.

Put the critical files on a server somewhere and download them when needed. Upload the files and delete them off the laptop when coming back.

[cbdo2007]

32. Not if it's in his anus.

Makes you give another thought to those 16GB jump drives, right?

[pstokely]

44. Clone your HD before you leave the country

and wipe it before you return

[pstokely]

43. Can't they confiscate those also?

Same with a portable HD

[HipChick]

8. yes they can...my hard drive is encrypted to prevent anykind of data theft

[MelissaB]

10. and his should have been...

[RC]

21. Doesn't matter. The will ask for the passwords.

And keep you and the computer till they get in.

[slampoet]

24. I just keep a file of NASTY viruses encrypted in a folder entitled "PORN"

This usually deters the curious.

[pstokely]

45. there's the such thing as total encyrption

[RoccoR5955]

13. Hopefully he isn't running Windows or OS X.

If he's running some off the wall distro of Linux, and has his hard drive encrypted, he should be okay. Or, remove the hard drive before leaving Thailand, and shipping it to the US, encrypted, of course. It needs to be in a well protected padded, ESD-proof container.

[pstokely]

46. HD's are hard to remove in some laptops

nt

[Speck Tater]

14. Clearly America is one of those countries you visit at your own risk. nt

[timeforpeace]

26. The scenario presented suggests just the opposite. Try Thailand instead.

[mainer]

16. Same thing almost happened to my son -- also in Detroit.

He was returning from Thailand and Burma, and they pulled him into an interrogation room and made him sit there for hours while they went through all the photos in his digital camera. They searched his pockets, demanded any camera cards, etc., etc. He was sick at the time and miserable, and when they finally let him go, they grudgingly gave him back his camera. It was all about child porn. Any man traveling alone to southeast Asia is profiled as a child molester until proven otherwise.

[MelissaB]

18. What a shame.

I'm so sorry your son had that experience. We plan on going to Thailand as a family and I'm betting we won't have any trouble getting back into the USA simply because we are a family.

[safeinOhio]

19. Coming into Detroit Metro

Bringing in JPGs
Don't touch my Dell if you please
Mr. TSA man.

Chickens flying all over the plain........

[question everything]

22. Call the office of your congressman and Senators

and ask them to look into it.

[mudplanet]

23. I like the idea of removing your hard drive and fedexing it to yourself

before you leave for home.

Or, find a close up of a rectum and reproduce it about four hundred times with different names so they have to look at it four hundred times. They might just get the message.

[ddeclue]

30. Never take any personal PC outside the country - encrypt everything on your business laptop

and keep a backup of everything and send anything created overseas back via email.

Look up truecrypt and programs like CCleaner and drive kill programs.

If everybody did this then they'd have to give up because it would take them forever.

Oh and get the ACLU to sue their ass over this and get your Congressman involved too.

[jeffbr]

31. The real perverts store their crap on the net

Many traveling businesspeople use the net for storage also - just to avoid hassles like this.

[cbdo2007]

33. Right, seriously who even has a "porn stash" anymore? It's all on the net.

There's no reason to keep any porn anywhere in your possession anymore except in the annals of your computer in the internet history. Any naked pictures or videos are available with a few mouse clicks.

It's true too that there is so much online storage available that even the child porn people would have to be even bigger idiots to be walking around with their computer full of it.

I'm guessing this guy's computer getting confiscated is NOT about child porn but he must be on some terror watch list instead. They're looking for videos of him walking around the capital building and stuff or with a bunch of Al queda shit on them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. 3 people in the UK were convicted of child abuse on Thursday because 1 kept pics on his PC

Blanchard and his wife, Anne, 44, lived in apparent luxury in Littleborough, near Rochdale. Their home was filled with plasma televisions, ornate fireplaces and leather sofas, and the driveway hosted a succession of high-specification cars, including an Aston Martin DB9, that Blanchard hired to impress his neighbours.

Having struck up an online relationship with George and Angela Allen, he sent them images of him abusing a child and encouraged them to do the same.

Police moved in on June 6 after his business partner, Noman Ahmed, logged into Blanchard’s office computer while he was in Abu Dhabi. He was so shocked by what he saw that he immediately called police.

It later emerged that the laptop, iPhone and pen drive he was carrying when arrested at Manchester airport bore further images of child abuse that might have cost him his life in the United Arab Emirates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6252704/Vanessa-George-nursery-abuse-case-Colin-Blanchard-portrayed-himself-as-a-successful-businessman.html

Main story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/oct/01/nursery-child-abuse-trio-guilty

[daedalus_dude]

34. This law should be changed. And those who voluntarily enforced it should lose their jobs.

[L. Coyote]

35. If he did not get a receipt, forget about it already!

[Javaman]

36. sounds like one of the officials kids needed a new laptop and iphone. nt

[dembotoz]

37. back in around 63 with i was in 6th grade i had a teacher who used ease of travel as an example

of how we were different than the commie pinko states like Russia and the other cold war bad guys.

isn't it pogo who said "we have seen the enemy and it is us"

by the by
this teacher just might have been the best teacher i ever had.

[brendan120678]

38. Customs has a right to examine it if he is...

coming from a foreign country. If they find any technical data in their quick review, they then have a right to examine it further to ensure no violations of ITAR were committed.

[tammywammy]

39. ITAR some serious business too

I've sat in export control training and meetings discussing it. It's a big deal and you can take on huge fines if you're not properly exporting information. Makes me glad that in my capacity I take the training but I never actually export anything.

[CBGLuthier]

47. Legal, yes.

Constitutional, I highly doubt. Someone needs to take to the SC.

Unless I missed that part of the 4th and 5th amendments about losing rights when leaving the country.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

48. Someone posted a few months ago about this happening and that it's legal. Going to search now.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

49. 3 threads on this policy... Obama formalizes Bush policy on digital searches and seizures

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6404732
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6444260
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6435653

[berni_mccoy]

50. Unfortunately, it's still legal, and yes they can do this. I have friends this has happened to

The best thing to do when travelling is back-up before you leave and don't keep anything urgent on your main hard drive. Use an iDisk like .Mac to keep your data on when travelling. That's what I do now.