Talking to someone who grew up dirt poor during the Depression is illuminating..

[Fumesucker]

I talk with my son in law's grandmother on a pretty regular basis, she grew up in the same shack she was born in here in the deep South during the Depression. Her family grew most of their own food, they even grew sugar cane they took to the mill in order to have sweetener when the juice was boiled down.

She tells me that they didn't know they were poor because everyone else around them lived just like they did.

To an extent poverty is relative, it's one thing to be poor when everyone else is poor also, you have little or nothing to compare your life with. It's entirely another thing to be poor when you are surrounded by apparent wealth.

My parents also lived through the Depression but they passed away before I was old enough to learn many of the lessons they had to teach. Now I'm older and have a different perspective on life and talking to someone who really was poor is teaching me a lot that I really needed to learn.

[phantom power]

1. I remember my grandparents, who lived through it.

My grandmother on my mom's side was a food-hoarder. Not uncommon among Depression survivors. On my dad's side they were misers. They let their basement wall cave in instead of running a dehumidifier and paying the extra electricity. Also not so uncommon.

[roguevalley]

80. I remember too. I also grew up dirt poor too. It is a something that

informs you forever.

[knowbody0]

2. perspective is everything

my grandmother made dandelion salads to ensure her kids had their "greens". love the stories.

[undeterred]

3. My parents were born in the twenties

and were deeply affected by the Great Depression and World War II, when people had to deal with rationing and making lots of sacrifices.

[annabanana]

77. Stories from my Dad... putting cardboard in the shoes to get a little

more wear out of them...

. . . having a better off classmate over for dinner, and seeing him assume that the plate that was to be shared by the whole family was meant just for him.

[undeterred]

85. Grandma catching a pigeon on the window ledge

of the apartment building in the city... and cooking it for dinner.

[vadawg]

4. i think the relative poverty thing is overplayed sometimes, if all you do is look at what others

have and want the same then you will forever be playing keeping up with the jonses, as long as you can cover the basics then there are more important things than having the same shit as the people around you.

[Fumesucker]

6. A great many people are having a very hard time covering the basics right now..

Seeing stuff like "Lifestyles of the rich and famous" on the only entertainment they can afford doesn't help things any.

It's tough to keep a good morale when you are struggling to put food on your family and you see others waste incredible amounts of money on frivolous and ephemeral trivia.

[vadawg]

10. yeah and the point im making is that if you try to compare yourself to the rich and famous then

you will never get ahead, you got to aim where you can actually make a hit. As to morale the best thing i was ever taught growing up was that there is always someone worse of than you, i think this is a better way to live than to focus on those doing better...

[Fumesucker]

12. We are all different, all have different perspectives..

And the way our society is organized now we try very hard to hide those who are worse off while at the same time flaunting those who are better off. That makes it hard to ignore those who are better off.

[vadawg]

20. you might not be able to ignore, but why let it bother you or influence you

there will always be people who are better off materially then you , some healthier than you etc etc etc, ifgf you live your life chasing them then you will miss life..

[Fumesucker]

24. Because society rubs our noses in it constantly..

Virtually the first thing a stranger asks you in the US is "what do you do?", which is a thinly veiled way of asking how much you make.

In America, what you have is who you are to a big extent.

Some of us manage to get away from that mindset but it is omnipresent and insidious.

[vadawg]

25. so what to you do about it, personally i get attacked every day for who and what i am

do i care, not a jot, i go home and the important stuff is there, do you really care how a total stranger feels about you and how much you have.

[Fumesucker]

30. I've been attacked today..

And not everyone on DU do I consider a total stranger.

I have better conversations here than I do with quite a bit of my family, most of whom are so wrapped up in stuff I don't care to even know about that we don't talk much.

Of course they feel the same way about me I suspect.

[vadawg]

34. no i mean in real life not DU, though DU does hate itself some popo

i learned when i was a kid that the important thing is to be content in who you are and not to judge yourself on other peoples standards. It sure as hell makes life a lot happier...

[Fumesucker]

41. I don't hate police..

I've been treated very badly and very well indeed by police, you are all individuals and should be judged as such.

And you chose what you do, no one forced you to be a police officer, if you don't like being attacked then change what you do.

You should have tried being a far lefty in the deep south in 2002, it was no fun at all.

To have been proven right in the long run is pretty thin reward for what I put up with for the bushie years.

[vadawg]

44. as i said i expect to be attacked and it dosent bother me, thats the point im trying to make

dont live your life by others standards, dont try to be all things to all men, live your life according to your own plan and you will do better than by continually measuring yourself against others..

[Fumesucker]

46. Don't tell me..

Tell those with their noses pressed up against the glass teat... aka TV..

[vadawg]

54. thats a big part of the problem, people believe that living is having tonnes of shit

and their weekly TV shows etc etc, im not sure that the vast majority of americans would ever want it any other way though....

[Fumesucker]

59. It took me quite a while to realize that the wanting was ususually far better than the having..

We want something and then when we get it we immediately start wanting something else..

[vadawg]

62. bingo you got it, i learned to appreciate simple stuff

to take pleasure in simple stuff, like a cup of hot tea or having a good dump, if you learn that possessions are exactly that and they dont define you, then its real easy to streamline and be content with the important things in life..

[Javaman]

82. What an incredible insightful piece of wisdom.

Thanks. :)

I bow to you.

[Fumesucker]

88. Thanks..

You don't see no hearses with luggage racks.

[Gman2]

48. Deprivation is NOT, a state of mind. Ever been hungry?

[vadawg]

51. lol more times than you can imagine....and not just hungry but beyond that

[Gman2]

55. Likely why you are not a far right wing cop.

[vadawg]

61. you know for all the talk about cops being fascists etc etc,

i gotta say most of the guys i work with are totally apolitical, they are all about hooters, family, bbq. beer, football etc etc etc... the guys who are political stand out because they are the minority..

[Gman2]

67. That job is political thru and thru. And getting thru it without racism, poorism, ageism, against

the youngish, is rare and for the most part understandable. And as for the choirboy aspect of cops, they are such pariah, in general, that they seem to circle their social wagons. They are nice to have live on the block, having them ring your bell, not as much.

[Javaman]

84. here's something you can probably relate to...

when you are so hungry, that the taste of the spit in your mouth becomes annoying because it's all you have day after day after day.

That's my most basic memory about being poor and hungry.

[vadawg]

90. never thought the taste of my own spit was bad, i think the worst thing is

when you get to eat but theres not enough, it just makes the hunger worse...

[Obamanaut]

64. Much of what you typed I can relate to. We are having a combination

birthday party (93 for MIL) and wedding (nephew on his way to Afgan next month - second time, plus one Iraq).

I've been getting updates this week on what I cannot say to whom, in order to keep a peaceful day.

[vadawg]

68. well remember the days not about you, but about them so i would hold my tongue

and make it the best birthday and wedding for them that you can.. sometimes there is more important stuff out there than us.

[Obamanaut]

74. Yeah, I know. For the last several gatherings, it was easier to walk

away when the trash talk started. Most of them are fundie types (one says she is a bapti-costal, but I think that's made up stuff) and I'm a non believer and they know it, so from time to time one will want to engage in that sort of talk.

I'm preparing a crock pot of beef stew, and will take the motorcycle with me so I don't have to stay as long as Miz O does.

edited to add I always prepare the covered dish that everyone is requested to bring.

[Gman2]

53. Sounds very much like, I've got mine, piss off!

[vadawg]

58. seems to me you are missing the point, what i have shouldnt make a blind bit of difference to you

and to your life, you should be able to find what you need without worrying about what i have...

[Gman2]

60. And with a living wage type system, you wouldnt see near the class war!

[hfojvt]

75. it's pretty hard to ignore them

when you are walking in the rain and they are driving by. To some degree it has nothing to do with the media.

Another thing is the comparison to our own past and expectations, if not promises. People with middle class parents are perhaps unaware of how their parents struggled in their early years. As the 2nd child, for example, I can remember our house before tile was put in the basement and walls and rooms were built by dad, how carpet was added room by room. How a screen porch was added as well as a second garage, and also the junky old car we took on vacations.

My younger siblings though, perhaps just remember always having these things from the time they were 8 and expect to have them all their lives. Not realizing that our parents did not always have those things and that there was some working and scrimping involved in getting them.

[KakistocracyHater]

89. all the food in the commercials & the cars/trucks can really get one down

especially if you need a car to work or need to eat.

[Gman2]

22. That is a RIDIculous seNTIMENT! Most of the ME TOO's are the hoping to be rich

There are few poor that play that game. The exception is a sorta racist one, that has taught black males, that status is everything. Thus Wheel rental places. The poor hope to have the same things their parents had. Like enough free time after paying for their housing etc, to be able to do family things. I hear even on this board that those comploaining shouldnt have cableinternet. Or a car, or many other things that have become almost de rigor for employment, or being taken seriously. No email, most headhunters will not call or show interest. No car, no job. Bad credit rating, no job, no reasonable auto insurance. To burden those already on the edge, with pomtifications is evil.

[Gman2]

43. AND, it is the same sentiment that places all mortgage blame on the poor.

[vadawg]

49. not evil, just a different way of looking at stuff, americans seem to judge everything by possession

many people the world over are much poorer materially than americans but they judge their worth by more spiritual and other worths. The problem here is that it seems everyone judges not only others but themselves by their material worth...

[Gman2]

73. That's part of that changing society, to suit our new reality.

More feeling that our brother is our brother.

[JVS]

83. I can rent wheels! AWESOME!

[Greyhound]

81. Ah yes, just lower your expectations to a level that is permitted by your owners.

That's the American Spirit!

[nini]

5. This is exactly why I will NEVER vote for a republican

My grandma made sure we knew how much they struggled and suffered while the republicans didn't give a shit and did nothing to help. My mom wore shirts made of flour sacks, shoes were repaired over and over, they too grew their own food etc..

[MorningGlow]

7. My family grew up during the Depression

Most of my family was around well into my adulthood, so I got to hear all the stories about the Depression (some hundreds of times over). It was all fascinating, what everyone did to get by. But you're right--my mom has always said that everyone was pretty much in the same boat, so you just did what you had to do. For my grandparents, that meant my grandfather worked two jobs, and my grandmother kept the books for the Italian Mafia's lottery. She also did dream interpretation for her comadres in the neighborhood.

Even though they technically lived within the city limits, they had a large garden and raised chickens, as well as a lamb for Easter dinner (my mom won't eat lamb to this day because she made friends with it before her father slaughtered it and served it up). They also got eggs from another relative's farm on occasion.

When push came to shove, they took in boarders; my mom's family of six moved into the first floor and gave the boarders the second floor.

When the four children grew up, they all got jobs, but all remained in the house, even after they married, because nobody could afford their own houses as newlyweds. ("How we did that with one bathroom, I'll never know," my mom always says.)

I'm grateful that the lessons they learned back then were conferred onto me. I am deeply in debt at the moment, unfortunately, but for most of my life I abided by what they learned--never buy what you can't afford to pay in cash, do with less, sometimes do without. Fix it, save it, find another use for it instead of throwing it away. Don't expect life to hand you a bag of cash that you didn't earn. Good lessons.

[Fumesucker]

9. "Fix it, save it, find another use for it instead of throwing it away."

Exactly, we don't do that any more and I think we will eventually rue the day when we forgot how.

[MorningGlow]

14. Funny story

A couple of months ago my turkey baster's bulb cracked and split. Wouldn't draw broth anymore. And for two solid minutes I stood there, staring at it, trying to figure out how I could fix it. Honestly. Two solid minutes is a long time before you realize it's a $2.99 piece of plastic and it's OKAY to throw it away and buy a new one! My mom taught me well--TOO well! :crazy:

[Fumesucker]

17. My front tire on my bicycle went flat yesterday..

Patch kit was $2.00 and some change, new tube was $4.99..

I bought the patch kit, now I need a tube anyway since the leak was somewhere that couldn't be successfully patched. :(

I pinch every penny until ol' Abe shrieks in pain.

[TxRider]

38. I wish I did

While I have no debt, if I really squeezed every dime and saved every penny my whole life I would likely be in the top 1% by now.

[present and past]

23. Do People Realize The Great Depression Never Happened ...

... in Washington, DC? The Roosevelt administration created many new government jobs. The Works Progress Administration had its headquarters in DC, and thousands of people flocked there from all over the East Coast so they could appeal directly to the home office for jobs. Doing that worked. The Social Security Administration was new in 1936, and it was begging for employees.

I've learned all this by talking to relatives who lived in DC during the 1930s.

Also, did you know that the rise of organized crime in the 1920s and 1930s affected all major American cities except Washington, DC? Sam Giancana, Meyer Lansky and other family - oriented criminals kept their business far away from J. Edgar Hoover and his headquarters.

Dare I say that these Depression stories are relevant in today's recession? Many neighborhoods in the DC area, such as the one near George Washington's Mount Vernon home in Fairfax County, Virginia, are doing just fine. The Works Progress Administration is not necessary today. Today you can survive by selling computers to the U.S. government.

[Fumesucker]

26. I suspect you are treading on thin ice here..

I have over 7,000 posts on DU and I've already been called a freeper today..

Not every waste of skin in America can sell computers to the US government, only those with connections need apply for that position.

[TxRider]

40. Not really true

But you do have to know how to get the business with the government, it can be a tedious process.

As for the organized crime thing, that also rose up in metro areas due to prohibition, and the vast amount of money to be made in the more populated cities if you controlled the "speak easy" bars and casinos.

Not unlike the rise of gangs in inner cites in the last 40 years due to our drug prohibition.

[Fumesucker]

50. Right, that's why people with connections are always the last in line..

I have family that milks their connections, I know how well it works.

[TxRider]

57. And I have worked for and recieved government contracts

No connections required.

In fact I'm working to land a $400k one right now.

[Fumesucker]

65. I din't say you *can't* do it without connections..

Just that those with connections often go the front of the line.

I've seen it happen too many times for it to be mere happenstance..

[Gman2]

8. A resus monkey deprived of a mother, clings to a wireframe mom just as

tightly as the real thing. It doesnt mean it is ergonomic. Nor humane. Some might say that girl kept in a box, was cared for.

[Fumesucker]

11. A wireframe mom is better than no mom at all..

A tarpaper shack is better than being without shelter at all.

Everything is relative.

[Gman2]

15. They dont allow you a tarpaper shack. They dont allow a tent.

They outlaw feeding the poor. The republicans and the religious, call it all your fault. And want to pile on more for good measure.

[TxRider]

18. I think you'll find religious folks feeding a whole lot of poor.

In fact they dominate volunteering and charity big time.

[Gman2]

27. You're right, I mean the religious that seek television.

[Fumesucker]

31. Given that America is still about 80% Christian it would hardly make sense that non Christians..

Would dominate..

And a great deal of religious "charity" is stuff that goes to make their particular church bigger or more impressive..

Forgive me if I'm cynical, I live in an area of the country dominated by fundies and megachurches.

[TxRider]

52. I understand your cynicism completely

But we're talking about sums as large as 100+ billion in religious charity in the U.S., and studies that show religious people do volunteer work well over twice as much as secular people do.

I've watched a megachurch move into my small home town and do the same, even getting people to sign their houses over to the church.. It was pretty disgusting. Kinda like Walmart did, only a greedy fundie church.

But we also had over a dozen smaller churches, all doing a lot of charity giving and volunteer work.

[Fumesucker]

19. We lived in a tent with a three year old for about four months..

1983, Biloxi MS, lived in a campground all summer saving enough to get a cheap apartment.

At least we had a van to keep our stuff in.

[Gman2]

29. Yeah, I lived in a subcompact for a year when young. Now, I have heart failure from Bush, and would

die very quickly.

[Gman2]

13. Also, most of us have nowhere to grow food, start our own shop or business.

gather enough family to populate a house economically. Depend on neighbors for anything but envy/hate. And our public servants with guns have NO COMPASSION for those thrown on the street. You cant get away with any shortcuts, like not getting registration etc. Hithhiking doesnt work anymore. And finally, after that stimulus, there is no more political courage for anything else.

Also, it didnt take two good breadwinners to afford whatever housing you presently occupy.

[TxRider]

16. My granparents lived through it, as did my parents.

I learned a lot from them.

My grandmother once told me straight up she wanted to die before depending on someone else, even her children. She was serious as a heart attack, she died the next year.

I really do not fear another great depression personally.

The lessons I learned are why today I have no credit cards, no car payment, and even kick myself for having a mortgage.

I leaned the difference between what I want, and what I need.

I learned if I -want- something, it's always better to eek and save and buy it cash. If I'm not prepared to do that to get it, I must not want it that bad after all.

But a depression today would likely be much more deadly to urban areas than it was in the 30's.

[Fumesucker]

21. My brother pays a lot more attention to economics than I do..

He is convinced another depression is coming, I can't say I disagree with him, he knows a lot more than I in that regard.

[Gman2]

33. Of that there can be no doubt. We should be transforming our society in anticipation, or

a whole hell of a lotta humans will suffer and die. Thats why I am ready to exile those fucking rethugs.

[TxRider]

35. I don't see it myself

But I don't really fear it either.

We are heading into dangerous waters though.

Running our debt up will have significant impact on us. But we are still, even with all the new debt, at a far better debt to GDP ratio than other nations.

And we have already likely survived the worst of the bubble popping effects.

I believe we will have a bad 2010, and then start to slowly see jobs coming back and things improving.

[Fumesucker]

45. But so much of our debt has been spent on stuff like wars..

And bailing out the banksters..

Those are not investments, they are ratholes.

Other nations may have more debt but they have been investing in their populations, things like education and health care.

[TxRider]

79. We're still in good shape though

We're looking at maybe 40% debt vs GDP, where Britain is looking at 90%+ debt vs GDP.

That is primarily why the dollar is the worlds currency.

That is why wealth flows into the U.S. for safe keeping.

The national credit card isn't maxed out, we're a good credit risk.

Take a country with 90% debt vs GDP, and one big problem sends them into default. Total currency collapse.

[Kingofalldems]

28. The worst part of being poor is being singled out

and isolated if you live around middle class people.

[Fumesucker]

32. Exactly..

And the fall from middle class to poor is a long and hard one..

[Gman2]

37. The neuvopoor, get sympathy, the old poor are assumed to choose

that life. And all the programs are targetted to the neuvopoor. Derision is sent towards those that dont boost our society towards that shiny city on the dump.

[Lars39]

36. My parents lived thru the Depression.

Hard times doesn't even begin to describe what they went thru.

[eppur_se_muova]

39. Book rec -- "Little Heathens"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/01/books/review/Gilbert-t.html

[madokie]

42. I was raised by depression era parents

both were parents during the whole of the depression and poor as dirt. I lived in the same house I was born it until I was 14. I throw nothing away unless it is absolutely non usable ever ever again. Since I'm a tinkerer I see all this stuff as parts and supplies and you'd be surprised at the useful things I've built back through the years using parts of somethings that has already lived it's life as it was designed to do.

[Fumesucker]

56. No, I wouldn't be surprised..

I'm a tinkerer and JOAT (jack of all trades) also..

Right now I'm building a trailer for my bicycle from an old 10' stepladder and a cast off bicycle and putting a new (used) engine in a 1984 F150 I got for nothing..

[Gman2]

63. The sad thing is, those handy engineering type individuals, were the ones

spat on since Reagan. And are becoming few and far between, thru attrition.

[Fumesucker]

66. There hasn't been much money in it for a while..

My brother is telling me my skills will be in demand again though, I'm not sure if that's good or bad for society as a whole..

[Gman2]

70. As a moldmaker, process eng, if my skills dont get demand, run.

[TxRider]

76. I am one, I don't need to find one.

[redqueen]

47. My dad was born the year before it started.

I grew up hearing about the tough times, and the wisdom of "use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without" along with never, ever wasting food... and counting every penny.

[slackmaster]

69. My stepfather lied about his age and joined the Navy in 1934 - He was 15

His parents moved to California from Georgia in the 1920s and homesteaded in eastern San Diego County. They had basically nothing, and lived by ranching and subsistence hunting.

My dad was working on trails for the California Conservation Corps in 1934 when he fell ill with rheumatic fever. Because he was working on a government job, he was treated at the Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego.

He decided to join the Navy at that time because the Naval hospital meals were the best food he had ever had. He re-enlisted in 1938, planning to get out in 1942. That didn't work out. He served the duration of World War II and ended up retiring from the Navy in 1956. He got a job for a defense contractor, and worked for the same company until he retired in the '80s.

My mom's family was poor but not that badly off. They lived in Iowa. My grandmother worked as a teacher, grandfather was a pharmacist. He got drafted into the Navy early in World War II. The monthly Navy allotment checks were more money than they had ever seen.

[madrchsod]

71. both my parents and grandparents were living while i was growing up

i learned a lot from them and i tried to pass the lessons to my children. right now they are experiencing just a small fraction of what the 30`s were like.

[ellie]

72. My mom lived through it

and said the same thing, that they didn't know they were poor because everyone was in the same boat, so to speak.

[annabanana]

78. "Buy it new, wear it out, make it "do", do without."

(For when they were lucky enough to be able to "buy it new". . )

[onethatcares]

86. it wasn't until fairly recently we just had to have

two cars, two jobs, three wiis, a boat, two jetskies, a harley or victory motorcycle, 4 bedrooms 3 baths, a pool, a lanai, a mercedes for the kid, braces for our teeth, permanent makeup, botox, twinkies, and a 45.00 haircut.

It's hard to keep up with the Ownzis.

Peace

[Spike89]

87. The flip side is freedom in America often costs

We tend to look to the outliers too much and ignore the middle. Sure, there are people who can "drop out" and maintain their freedom and choice of lifestyle. People with tons of money can buy all those extravagant toys and still have plenty left to buy freedom. For those in the middle, maintaining freedom and keeping options open for our children is extremely difficult.

Freedom isn't just about being able to vote. It is also things like being able to chose where you want to live, how you spend your day, and who you spend your time with. If you're poor enough, you might not even have the freedom to move somewhere that has a few more jobs. To get food, lots of spend virtually all our productive hours basically doing things we either hate or are numb to.

Without a certain level of prosperity, it is extremely difficult to ensure a good education for yourself and/or your children. Without an education, your options are extremely limited.

We like to ridicule (admittedly it is often justified) people who strive to maintain their place on the socio-economic treadmill, but the reality is that America has become a reverse monkey tree economy--you can slide down incredibly easy, but climbing back up is almost impossible. Sadly, being poor not only curtails your options, but severely affects your children's options too.