4th teen from same Palo Alto high school commits suicide

[question everything]

Source: LA Times

For the fourth time in less than six months, a student from one Palo Alto high school has committed suicide, authorities say. The boy stepped in front of a train at the same location where three other students have killed themselves since May.

CalTrain spokeswoman Tasha Bartholomew said the latest suicide of a student from high-performing Gunn High School occurred at 10:50 p.m. Monday. Another Gunn student, a boy, 17, killed himself the same way at the same spot at 8:20 a.m on May 5. His death was followed by the suicide of a girl, 17, on the tracks at 9:59 p.m. on June 2. The third suicide occurred at the same location on Aug. 21 at 10:45 p.m.

Palo Alto police told the San Jose Mercury News that police are limiting publicity about the suicides for fear of a growing cluster.. Suicide clusters are relatively rare, although they have existed since ancient times.

One study found that between 1% and 5% of all teen suicides in the U.S. occur in clusters, taking the lives of 100 to 200 teenagers a year. Suicide contagion has involved prison inmates, marines, religious sects and Native Americans, but in the U.S. teens and young adults make up most of the clusters, according to Suicide and Mental Health Assn. International.





Read more: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/4th-teen-from-a-palo-alto-high-school-commits-suicide.html

[Cirque du So-What]

1. Damned tragic

Doesn't appear that efforts to limit publicity are working out as planned, however. If there's such a thing as a suicide task force, it's definitely called for in Palo Alto.

[gratuitous]

12. The authorities can limit publicity

But in the school culture, you can bet that EVERYONE knows the who, what, when and how of each of the deaths. I don't know that I had more or less drama in my high school days, but I remember many of the details of the three kids who died in car accidents, the kid who died in the bicycle accident, and the kid who shot himself (unsuccessful suicide attempt), even decades later.

[jmm]

41. My high school didn't address these types of issue well but we all knew the details.

My junior year the body of a fellow student was found behind our school. No official announcement was made but hours after she was found people were sharing details that wouldn't be released to the press for awhile in classes and during lunch. I wish they had dealt with these types of issues more directly. The most they ever said was we can't stop you from talking to the press, but don't. My senior year three high people committed suicide and one died in a car accident. Maybe talking about it wouldn't have saved them but it could've helped everybody cope.

[Siwsan]

2. This has also happened in Wales

A small village called Brigand had 19 teen suicides in 18 an month period. Incredibly tragic.

[GreenPartyVoter]

57. Oh my heavens!

:cry:

[thunder rising]

3. Schools administrations are a failure. Too top heavy and simply incapable of doing more than

keeping the grass mowed.

NEXT: You'd think that as soon as a suicide occurred the U.S. Department of Education would make sure the admins knew that crisis intervention needed to find follow ons.

Just given the fact that the study exists, you'd think that one high school suicide would be a trigger for action.

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. It should be.

One suicide may trigger more.

[Fla Dem]

6. What about the parents?

Yes, most definitely the school administrators should be actively pursuing intervention. But as always intervention should start at home. Parents should be the first ones to recognize abnormal behavior in their children. I think we place to much responsibility on teachers. Just saying. :shrug:

In any case, incredibly sad.

[question everything]

7. Parnets are stressed with no jobs, or several

and can barely stay above water.

Even the Columbine kid, recently one of the mothers said she had no idea he was suicidal. Though I don't think that this mother was stressed..

It used to be that we, kids, would share a bedroom, sometimes even with an older relative. But now we respect kids' privacy, each has his own room, his own computer, his own TV and parents have no idea what on their kids' mind.

[Shell Beau]

32. Well teachers often have several students to look after.

I don't want to place the blame on anyone. Things at this school should certainly be re-examined though. A parent should know their children better than a teacher should, IMO. Of course situations can vary. And some may be very good at hiding their emotions. It may be hard to notice a decline in a teen if they are hiding it well. Whatever the circumstances are, this is truly a very very sad thing.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. At Gunn? Please.

The people whose kids go to Gunn are gainfully employed and their household income is probably about 300k per year. They live in one of the richest towns in America. Fuck, you can't even afford to *live* in Palo Alto working two shit jobs.

[question everything]

61. Sorry. It was a general comment

not specific to this case. Rich or poor, parents do not spend as much time with their kids as they used to, as they should.

[thunder rising]

9. I've seen some FKN moody teenagers that were normal. Goth is a phase. No, the schools need to act

like they actually STUDIED in those fucking classes they took to earn the degrees that are posted on the walls.

[Shell Beau]

33. Maybe the classes are overloaded. Maybe the teachers are trying their best.

Who knows? I do know that teachers have a tremendously tough job. As do parents. We have to all work together. Did someone fail these teens? I don't know. Something is wrong. And it is sad.

[jbnow]

63. Abnormal behavior in a teenager? Not being light about it but that is tough

to read, especially for parents.
What I mean is...it isn't all that abnormal for a teenager to go off in their room and stay there for all sorts of reasons or not be as talkative as at other times. Teen years cab be a tough time to read. I'm sure these parents will be more alert for changes in behavior but they might not see that much of the change

The burden doesn't go n teachers or friends either...in some ways everyone who notices or has some cause for concern is part of it...
but it would be through the school or some community agency that education and support needs to be offered because parents, teachers, friends need to know how to deal with their concern, how to interpret the changes...

[question everything]

67. And you have to wonder whether teen suicides were at the same rates

in previous generations when teens did not have the luxury of going to their own rooms and be alone, or with computers or video games.

When family members shared a bedroom, when the family room was that - a room where all family members were gathered together, where family activities could lift a teen's mood, could show the teen that there is more to life than the sense of hopelessness that he was feeling at the time.

[havocmom]

40. While true in too many districts, hardly the root cause

Society needs to take some hard looks at itself and stop looking for scape goats.

[donco6]

72. The article didn't mention what they'd already been doing.

Do you know something more?

[lapfog_1]

5. The train engineers are never the same people after

a train suicide. The suffer from guilt and PTSD. Many cannot return to their profession.

[question everything]

8. I hope that the authorities can offer assistance to these

train operators.

[Oldtimeralso]

10. Been There Done That Got The Scars

1 Definite suicide
1 Suspected suicide
11 Grade Crossing accidents (personally think just stupid drivers)

[elehhhhna]

18. Sorry...and welcome...I grew up w/ a Metra (Chicago) train engineer --

One day we almost wiped out a pedestrian (long story, very complicated crossing) and THAT shook the HELL out of him. Can't imagine what it's like to be in such a situation.

[Brickbat]

71. You've been through the fire there.

Mr. Brickbat is a new engineer and he knows the day is coming when he'll hit a car or person. I dread that day.

[proteus_lives]

14. Those types of suicides are so selfish.

Train, suicide by cop and others.

It's so selfish to involve others if you want to punch your own ticket.

[alittlelark]

17. These are teens we're talking about.

I don't think they are selfish - Caltrain is a constant out here - many ppl see it almost every day. I guess it sounds quick to them.

Perhaps the Golden Gate Bridge is a less selfish option (a classmate of my husbands used it a few months ago) - but I don't think we should advertise that to the kids at Gunn.

Their HS district is right next to mine.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

47. Yes. I agree with you that we should not be advertising the GG bridge as different suicide option..

...for students at Gunn.

[Shell Beau]

36. We don't know what is in their minds.

I agree it is awful to include someone in on your suicide, but there is no pretty suicide. I think these people are so desperate to be out of pain, and feel like everyone would be better off without them here many of the times, that they don't obviously think rationally. Because look at what it does to a family. I don't really think most people who commit suicide think so much of the pain they leave behind, but they are trying so hard to get out of the pain they are in that is all they can see. At least that is how I see it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

38. Pray tell, what kind of suicide *isn't* selfish?

Unless you've got no family, then you're hurting people a lot.

[alittlelark]

43. I feel sorry for your aquaintances.

If that is the way you look at people in pain you would be a very negative influence.

[MH1]

50. Oh, bullshit.

what he said is true. Recognizing that any suicide is selfish, doesn't mean that one doesn't have compassion for those in pain. But thinking of the pain one leaves behind for others, might stop one or two suicides.

Then again I don't claim to be a psychologist or whatever, so I don't know. :shrug: I just don't think you should hammer a poster for stating the obvious.

[Forkboy]

52. It's also pretty selfish to expect someone to live a miserable life so your feelings don't get hurt.

[MnFats]

15. delete

[TroglodyteScholar]

23. I heard a fellow interviewed on public radio talking about just that

His voice trembled pretty noticeably when he discussed it. Very sad indeed.

[Brickbat]

70. Yup. It makes me so angry when I hear that someone has stepped in front of a train to commit

suicide. I know they're acting selfishly anyway, but to wreck other people's lives like that is a terrible thing.

[sakabatou]

11. Damn

:(

[alittlelark]

13. Gunn is a great HS. A few of my daughters friends go there.

This area is filled w/ High Tech workers and their families. The economic downturn is also hitting this area hard. Those in the upper middle class never expected it to happen to them. I know of at least 3-4 of my daughters friends who have had to move out of the area or rent apts. The stress is hitting these kids hard.

I know 1 of my daughters friends won't talk about having to move to an apt. - Her friends act like nothing happened.

[Pubslayer]

19. It is one of the top rated schools in the country.

This area is one of the wealthiest in the country. Gunn High is extremely demanding; it is from academic pressure to succeed, not ecomomic downturn (from what I've seen/heard). Nearby Palo Alto High and Monte Vista also have absurd suicide rates. Many people stop taking Caltrain after 6 months because nearly once a month somebody commits suicide on the tracks. So tragic...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

37. I've been on Caltrain three or four times when someone's thrown themselves onto the tracks.

Back when I was riding this usually happened in Redwood City.

[question everything]

68. What a horrible experience

and how hard it is on the train engineers.

[Tunkamerica]

16. reminds me of : "teenage suicide-don't do it"

heathers

[girl gone mad]

20. My town had a cluster of teen suicides..

in the 80s and 90s. It was pretty messed up. I lost 4 friends to suicide, and 2 of them showed absolutely no outward signs of depression.

From what I remember of that time, there was a lot of social drama in the schools. Everything got blown out of proportion. Boomer parents were uninvolved because most of them were too busy making money so they could have the nicest car on the block. Drugs were everywhere because this was a wealthy suburb that the drug gangs intentionally targeted. There was nothing for teenagers to do besides have sex, take drugs and start fights. If you weren't in the popular crowd, you could get picked on, and the popular crowd happened to be composed of a lot of narcissistic sociopaths. The super conservative Reagan loving Republican parents wanted to remain as oblivious as possible to much of these problems because bad stuff only happened to poor inner city people, so they chose instead to blame things like a town curse or demonic music.

[comrade snarky]

28. Sounds a lot like my high school in the mid 80s

Six suicides in one year and a couple of "accidental" deaths that no one but the parents believed were accidents.

A mostly rich school in a very right wing part of Houston. The same kind of toxic environment you describe, students driving porches daddy gave them and stealing mommies coke. A former coach for a principal who would walk by and smile as an unpopular kid got beaten in the halls. Regan was god and country music was king. Conform or face retribution.

Looking back, the surprising thing is how few died. Some schools are lethal.

[Arugula Latte]

21. A friend of mine has a child who goes to this school. She emailed me about this the other day.

Horrible.

[Nikki Stone1]

22. What kind of school is it?

That might explain some of what is going on.

[alittlelark]

24. One of the top ranked schools in the country

in an area being hit hard by the recession.

[Nikki Stone1]

25. A lot of desperation there.

Poor kids.

[bobbolink]

26. Why does it never occur to anybody to actually LISTEN to kids?

Or homeless people, or poor people, or women, or gays or.... any group?

Why is that?

Cause it's more profitable to call in some commission, some "Intervention"?????

[old mark]

27. I have been hearing people ask that question for over 50 years -

never heard a real answer.
Adults seem to think they know everything and never hesitate to give their opinions/commands.
Listening is very rare.

mark

[mackerel]

29. Did anyone see the piece in O-magizine (Oprah's) written

by Dylan Klebold's mother? (Colombine)

[bobbolink]

30. Thank you for understanding the #1 barrier to peace.

There are a few good resources for learning this skill, but its very rare to find someone willing to partake:

Parent Effectiveness Training, Chapter on Active Listening.

The Good Listener, by James E. Sullivan

Thanks, Mark!

[old mark]

49. I worked for several years with adolescent drug addicts and in many cases

there was (is) zero real communication between them and their parents, at times because the parents are way too authoritarian to even try to understand what their kids are going through, and because at times the parents don't care at all.

Adolesence is a very hard time for many of us, and we forget how hard it actually was. I'd certainly never want to go through it again.

mark

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. In Palo Alto? Probably because their parents are at work. n/t

[alittlelark]

39. Likely not - I know of MANY unemployed VERY well educated executives

out here. These are the men and women that created the systems you are using now to post.

I see so many men walking their kids to school in the morning.... It's great that they are - but they weren't able to do it last year because they were EMPLOYED.

Quite a few female executives I know of are also unemployed.... to say nothing of the techies that have been fighting HB1 visas for jobs and salary.

[bobbolink]

56. They can't listen to their kids because they're at work 24/7.

I've heard pathetic excuses, but that one takes the cake.

[MH1]

51. Maybe because it can be painfully frustrating

maybe because you reach out to people to help and just end up getting burned?

It's happened to me, recently. I'm not saying people should stop trying. I'm just saying now I understand why some people give up. How do you figure out who isn't going to burn you, before you get burned?

The particular type of situation I was recently involved in, I will now leave exclusively to the professionals. There is a reason for all that specialized education that I don't have. It isn't just because it's more "profitable'. It's because most of us aren't born with the skills to deal with these situations in a helpful way.

[bobbolink]

55. Willl have to disagree. We are ALL "born with the skills".... they are just socialized out of us,

and we accept it.

As for getting burned.... I'm sorry for your experience... as an abused wife, who went through having her son kidnapped and beaten, and further violence, AND a victim of a corporate society that burns EVERYONE, I know what you mean.

It doesn't mean we can give up.

[FourScore]

31. OMG. That's just too sad.

[alittlelark]

42. My daughter says it's the 6th - 4th w/ trains.

The Bay Area teen scene knows all about it.

[REP]

44. Local gossip says at least one may not have been suicide

[Kievan Rus]

45. Probably a very cliquish environment

From personal experience, I can tell you that high school enviroments like that utter hell. My high school was in a somewhat well-to-do Pittsburgh suburb, filled with any number of very shallow, intolerant, selfish Paris Hilton-wannabes that got a lot of handouts from Daddy and Mommy. They were typical "in crowd" intolerant types that hated anybody different from them.

Fortunately, not all the people in the "in crowd" were like that, as my lifelong best friend was one of them. She always tried to befriend those that were different from the norm, and I truly commend her for it, both then and now. Given the propensity for teen suicide, she probably saved a life from suicide by befriending those that were different.

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. tragic!

[voc]

48. We don't value each other

in our society. What message do we send the young ones?

[Canuckistanian]

53. Cluster suicides don't happen in healthy communities

And teenaged victims are an especially bad sign. They feel they have no guidance, no future, no meaning to life.

It's not just financial. They see a society where the most dishonest have the most power. There is little if any neighborhood interaction. There is no sense of group identity outside of their peers.

There have no heroes outside of manufactured media stars - and even those stars are screwed up in their personal lives.

I wouldn't want to be a teenager these days.

[Forkboy]

54. In the mid 80's Leominster, Ma. High School was called Suicide High.

Something like 7 or 8 over a two year span. That was some tough days around here.

[ReverendDeuce]

58. After living in Palo Alto for a year now... I am LEAVING...

This whole state can fall off a cliff as far as I am concerned.

Bay area is one of two things, depending on where you are:

a. Obscenely wealthy.
b. Borderline third-world impoverished.

[DesertRat]

59. In 1983, 7 teens in Plano, TX committed suicide

"Is suicide contagious? Recent clusters of adolescent suicides suggest that the answer is yes. In a twelve- month period beginning in February 1983, seven teenagers in Plano, Texas, committed suicide, four by carbon-monoxide poisoning, three by guns. Five boys in New York's Westchester and Putnam counties died by their own hand in February 1984, four of them by hanging.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,960709,00.html

From 2008:
The year-round residents of Nantucket, the Massachusetts island best-known as an exclusive summer enclave for the wealthy, have been shocked out of a quiet existence by the deaths of three of the local high school's 400 students in less than a year.

Also known as "suicide contagion," a cluster is defined as multiple suicides in a specific area during a certain time period, and experts say teens and their follow-the-leader tendencies are particularly susceptible.

Determining the root causes of such an outbreak is tricky even for those who have studied the trends, and planning prevention is perhaps even more difficult.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=4476181&page=1&page=1

[keep_it_real]

60. Stepping in front of a train is no easy way to go

Something real serious had to be going on in those young people's minds to make them do that. That is some unimaginable despair.

[jbnow]

65. “The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” Who knew that would

be teenagers too?

When my son was in high school (a very good one in a college town) and they were studying Thoreau he spoke up about that quote, couldn't believe it was famous, didn't believe it was true or would be true for adults...
Which led to a discussion. And every other kid raised their hand when asked how many often felt they were living lives of quiet desperation? How many had at least considered suicide? The hands went up.

My son was just shocked by that, changed his view of life somewhat. He was a kid filled with energy and joy and was very accepting of others...but he thought it gave all of us a responsibility...to be more kind and thoughtful and attentive and meet peoples eyes and smile, say hello...do those acts of random kindness...
That kids with good lives could even know despair made him think we are all responsible

I know the teen years can be a time of hormone heightened angst and little disappointments or imagines slights can cut like a knife ar vulnerable times, let alone big disappointments and cruel slights.

My heart goes out to every kid and parents and family, friends affected by this. The pain of the child making the choice for sure, but the pain and grief and guilt and hurt of those left behind must be crushing.

[WonderGrunion]

62. I blame "Twilight". Damned angsty vampires stepping in front of vehicles.

And for the record.... :sarcasm:

[proteus_lives]

64. Twilight is evil!

And by evil I mean poorly written and an insult the vampire genre.

They don't even have fangs for fuck's sake!

[Horse with no Name]

66. When I was growing up, Plano, Texas had this dubious honor

Very sad.

[AngryAmish]

69. It would be in terrible taste to mention "Healthers" at a time like this

I'm certain I won't do it.

[backtoblue]

73. Teens are at the age of self-discovery and expression.

By institutionalizing them and taking away a sense of "self-worth" by giving them strict school-college-career-family instructions, some will search for other options. When they realize that they will one day become the uptight, narrow-minded adults that influence them, then comes the depression. It's just like Hitler did with his people...make the government and people in charge seem so big and unreachable that hope is lost.