Computer geeks: What happens when Windows updates?

[Subdivisions]

I can't express in words how annoyed I am at the constant, nearly daily, updates sent to my computer from Microsoft. I'm running Vista and I do not exaggerate the nearly daily comment. Yes, I have automatic updates on because I want my computer to be as updated as possible. But, is it absolutely necessary for Microsoft to update my software nearly every day? What are they doing to my computer? Are they snooping? Is it safe to turn off auto-updates? Anyone else getting these oft-intrusive and exasperating update notifications?

[sendero]

1. Yes....

... Microsoft crap is just that bad. They find a new security hole more often than I find belly button lint.

Many times they have pushed out big changes to corporate IT that essentially brings everything down. IT managers fear having to install the patches, even their fixes have errors. At least most companies didn't bother installing Vista.

It's the free market at work don't ya know.

[Statistical]

58. What enterprise IT shop is stupid enough to push patches without testing?

Worked in IT many years before getting into development. Never, not once in a dozen companies have I see the company use windows update.

Companies are notified or patches by Microsoft. Test them and then push them (usually monthly unless critical) via SMS or SCCM.

[hobbit709]

2. I turn automatic updates off.

Haven't had a problem yet. 99% of the updates are security fixes to patch the gaping holes in IE and Outlook. If you don't use those, you've already eliminated 99% of the problems. Occasionally some software I want to install wants a specific update so I only download that one.

[sudopod]

11. I cannot exaggerate what a terrible idea this is. nt

[hobbit709]

17. What makes you say that?

[sudopod]

24. In general, if Microsoft has finally gotten around to patching

any given security vulnerability and have released an update to Windows, then there are lots of shady people scanning PCs and looking for that exact vulnerability. The longer installing a patch is postponed, the more likely that the vulnerability it was meant to repair will be exploited.

If you don't want to be bothered with updating Office or other MS products, you can specify that, I think, but you'll want to keep the OS updated as much as possible.

[hobbit709]

26. Over 90% of the computers I have to disinfect

Have ALL the updates and still get hit. If the updates really fixed the problem, why are there repeated updates to fix the same allegedly already fixed problem?

I personally have no problems but I refuse to use Internet ExploDer and Outhouse or any other M$ application.

None of the people whose computers I have cleaned had another problem after I convinced them to use a different browser and in some cases a different email client.

I get 2 to 5 computers a week that are crapped with viruses/malware and like I said above 90% have all the updates. Most of them also have that POS Norton which AFAIC is about as effective as a screen door on a submarine.

[sudopod]

27. Patches sure don't help

against PEBCAK, do they? :D

[hobbit709]

28. What I call Human 1.0 interface

[Ms. Toad]

31. Ditto on the browser and mail app.

The worst infestation I had to clean up, though, was when my daughter was using an alternate browser and was old enough to know she wasn't supposed to click to install anything without my specific permission - but she got caught in a (deliberately designed) infinite loop where she responded "no" and the "click to install" screen kept popping up. She closed the window, and it opened back up. She shrunk the window and it kept unshrinking. I wasn't home at the time (and we still had dial-up so she couldn't just call me) and she couldn't figure out how to get out of the loop - so she finally said "yes."

That was about 3 hours before I got home - by the time I got home the computer had come to a grinding halt, but was still able to download viruses from a ring of websites set up to deliberately infect computers faster than I could wipe them out. It took two days of alternating between disinfecting, hooking back up to the internet to see who "phoned home," disconnecting from the internet to prevent additional infestations while I was analyzing what I was about to find, running a registry analysis tool, spyware, and adaware tools, hooking back up to look up unidentifiable registry entries and removal instructions to remove identified viruses that couldn't be automatically removed, unhooking to make the needed registry changes and perform other manual removal tasks, hooking back up as needed to complete removal of programs that required removal, ad nauseum.

We've been clean since then - but what a nightmare! Moral of the story - make sure any kid old enough (and responsible enough) to use a computer with minimal supervision also knows how to physically disconnect it from the internet or deliberately crash it.

Turns out the owner of the evil website was a high school student who lives right down the street from us - we know some teachers at his school (who wondered where he got the money for all the fancy cars he drove). He also posted on a few websites bragging about how much money he was making from all the infestation websites he had managed to hook together in an infinite virus collection loop.

Edited after reading the intervening posts to add: definitely PEBCAK on this one!

[BolivarianHero]

48. It doesn't mean that the updates are a bad idea or a waste of time...

It simply means that the updates are not enough.

I keep Vista up-to-date, I use AVG Free 8.5 for anti-virus, I use FireFox Adblock, Spybot, and Spyware Blaster to keep everything else out.

Going from no updates to updates is like going from Sarah Palin to Mitt Romney; while nowhere near it enough, it does make things less atrocious.

[hobbit709]

54. I don't use Vista-biggest abortion since ME.

I run XP on one, XP X64 on one, and 7 on another. The other three computers run Linux Mint 7, Ubuntu 9.10 and Mandriva 2009.

And as I said, I haven't noticed anything not working on the XP machines without the updates. If it ain't broke-i.e. working just fine, don't fix it.

[Cassandra]

3. I now have 7, having crisped my old and loved XP machine...

and I'm not noticing much from MS. My XP was set up to update once a week. I'm not even sure when this one is supposed to be updating but it hasn't been bothering me. I get one or two updates from Avast every day and once or twice a week, HP chimes in.

[librechik]

18. me too, it's ok, however now I am plagued with frequent McAfee interruptions

that one can't turn off, I guess.


CURSE YOU BILL GATES!!!

[Statistical]

59. Bill Gates never worked for McAfee.

1) Start > Control Panel > Program & Features >> Uninstall McAffee.
2) Download a real (and free) AV like Avast!

[librechik]

67. I can't get Avast to shut up either!

I DO have a registry key, damn it! I've told you a thousand times!

Thanks for the tip!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. It takes all your private data, sends it to Bill Gates' secret

data base, and it analyzes your every move on your computer.
And with every new update, Windows begins to impact your moves and your thoughts, corrupting your rational part of the brain, and replacing it with a Pro Microsoft subroutine. Much like the Mice in Sir Adams seminal HItchhiker's trilogy, the impact is subtle, but always present.

[DainBramaged]

5. Switch to tin cans and string, then you won't have to worry about updates

Are you sure they are Microsoft updates and not anti-virus or anti-spyware program updates?

[Subdivisions]

6. Yes, they are Windows updates. n/t

[DainBramaged]

8. Well, one of the three computers on this desk is Vista basic

I just turned it on (kvm awitch-first time since Thanksgiving). And I checked for updates.


none.


:shrug:

[Ms. Toad]

9. The auto-update has had at least two since Thanksgiving...

I know because everytime it auto-updates it shuts down and restarts my computer without warning (there is a warning screen, but it appears below every other open window and my first warning is usually that open windows start to shut down as part of the shut down process - and by then it's too late). Fortunately, after it happens on my home computer I have warning to watch for the subtle blinking icon in the tray on my work computer so I don't lose everything I am in the middle of working on on two computers.

[MyNameGoesHere]

10. You have something else wrong then

http://www.microsoft.com/security/updates/bulletins/200911.aspx

Updates are generally released the second Tuesday of the month unless the severity level is such that it requires immediate release. Also if you would read on how to setup your computer to receive and install updates it would not interfere with your normal PC use time. Auto updates work well if one takes the time to RTFM.

[Ms. Toad]

19. Hmm...Did I pop your favorite balloon or something?

As for something else being wrong, then the same thing is also wrong with all of the computers I have contact with, since they all update on the same schedule. When my computer shuts off on me at home to restart after an update, the same thing happens on my work computer when I arrive at work, and on the two computers used by the folks who sit closest to me. My work computer shows 7 Vista updates for November - the majority of which did not occur on the 17th (the second Tuesday) of November.

As for the snark about scheduling updates - it was nice of you to assume laziness or ignorance is the reason that updates are not scheduled during times that do not interfere with normal PC use. Because of office policy and energy conservation none of the computers I use are left on and connected to the internet except when in normal use. If I scheduled updates for the middle of the night, they would not start until I booted up and connected to the internet the next day - with the same consequences that currently exist.

[MyNameGoesHere]

21. As you can see what the problem

is, then i am sure you can handle it. But sorry you are wrong. You do not seem to know a Windows update from a Office update. Updates work when the system is turned on. If it is turned off then no it can't work. And actually I use power off on over 300 systems, i send a WOL command prior to the update schedule. works peachy. So you can be green, up to date, and productive if you understand the process.

As part of Microsoft's routine, monthly security update cycle, we released 6 new security updates on November 10, 2009.
Latest Security Updates

* MS09-063 - addresses a vulnerability in Windows (KB 973565)
* MS09-064 - addresses a vulnerability in Windows (KB 974783)
* MS09-065 - addresses a vulnerability in Windows (KB 969947)
* MS09-066 - addresses a vulnerability in Windows (KB 973309)
* MS09-067 - addresses a vulnerability in Microsoft Office (KB 972652)
* MS09-068 - addresses a vulnerability in Microsoft Office (KB 976307)

[Ms. Toad]

29. Right. I don't know the difference. That is why I carefully excluded

the 20 Office updates that were automatically installed in November from my count of the 7 Windows updates that were automatically installed in November.

Your list does not include 5 of the 7 Windows (not Office) updates that auto-installed on my work computer during November (KB973687, KB976098, KB976470, KB905866, and KB976749).

WOL commands may work well for scheduled updates, but 4 of the 7 updates in November did not occur on the scheduled day, and WOL commands are (1) out of my control at work and (2) prohibited at work. For some of the computers I use, the issue is not just green, but office policy.

[MyNameGoesHere]

56. Seriously

Bill Gates is not sitting in a dungeon stirring a cauldron and chanting. At work your IT people sound like idiots. I do once a month updates, with occasional emergency patches AFTER HOURS. At you site they probably use WSUS at a minimum or SCCM to manage patches. If you are getting daily updates during business hours someone should be fired.

At home your BIOS probably has a schedule feature to wake your system up. Perhaps that could work to schedule your upgrades.

[Ms. Toad]

57. Whether my IT people are idiots

has nothing to do with the number of updates to Windows MS pushed out in November - or whether Bill Gates is sitting in a dungeon stirring a cauldron and chanting (which, just for the record, never even crossed my mind). As to your observation about my IT people - the policies come from the bosses, not the IT folks :shrug:. As to MS, they send updates as scheduled, or otherwise when they deem it necessary. Unfortunately the unscheduled updates happen more frequently than you are apparently aware of, and are more disruptive for those of us who are not permitted to control when our computers install them than you might imagine. November happened to be a relatively busy month for updates.

My only point in posting was to support the OP's observation that the updates are pushed out pretty frequently (specifically that there were three after Thanksgiving - which required two separate restarts on the systems I use.)

Nothing as sophisticated as WSUS or SCCM at work - all individual manual settings. The policy is one directing what employees are permitted to do, not an electronically imposed one. I'll explore my home BIOS and see if there is a schedule feature. If I can schedule a wakeup, then I'll have to decide if I actually want to. When I get the morning restart before I head to work it acts sort of like the canary in the coal mine - the recent reminder lessens the chance that the restart will surprise me at work, where losing work in progress would be more of a disaster. Since I'm stuck with the barely announced restarts at work . . . would I rather have the advance warning at home or not :dilemma:.

[sabrina 1]

30. Well, I'm not a computer expert which apparently you are.

I have the same problem as the OP. I have lost lots of work as a result of the constant updates and shutting down of the computer. I have it set now for once a week. I have Vista fwiw.

People who buy computers are not required to have a degree in computer technology and the vast majority do not. You are being defensive about something that you could maybe just have explained to the OP and everyone else who has the same problem. I am not the only one I know who has had this problem. Almost everyone who bought a computer a year or two ago has had the same complaint.

It's nice that you have enough expertise to be able to deal with Microsoft's problems. But as a customer, I feel no obligation to go get a degree just so that when I buy a product I will be able to use as it without the constant problems I've had with this one.

[Occulus]

36. Here's how you do it in 7, which is very similar to Vista

Control Panel -> View by Large Icons (in the upper right) -> Windows Update (bottom of the list on the right) -> Change Settings -> use the "Important Updates" pulldown menu and select "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them". Then check the box next to "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates".

Just remember to actually look at the list of updates before you download them. In some cases, it's completely inappropriate to grab them- say, if you're using a proprietary video driver, for example, and Microsoft is offering you theirs instead, or language pack updates for languages you have no need for.

Remember, it's usually perfectly safe to look around in the system menus without changing anything. If you're ever unsure that you might have changed anything, hit 'cancel'. But that's how you find things like this; it isn't always immediately apparent where certain settings reside.

[sabrina 1]

46. Thank you very much for the information

I will do that ... :-)

[MyNameGoesHere]

55. Well i have worked in the industry

for almost 20 years, and the vast majority of my knowledge was gleaned from those pesky manuals and help files. You know truth be told IT people are just charlatans. I probably would have sold snake oil in a past life. I mean we just do what everyone else is capable of, it's not rocket science.

[sabrina 1]

62. I see buying a computer the same way I see

buying a car. I never had to learn how an engine functioned in order to drive it nor did I expect that a new car would require me to read a manual and find out how to keep it running because it was not put together properly. I have zero interest in technology, like the vast majority of people and do not want to have to learn how to repair an engine or a computer which was not part of the deal when they were purchased.

I have learned, way more than I wanted to out of necessity, but it has wasted a lot of time I'd rather spend on something else.

Microsoft does have a bad reputation and I did not know why, but I'm beginning to understand especially since I bought this lap-top. I probably should have bought a MAC and probably will next time.

[MyNameGoesHere]

68. Exactly what i tell people

if you want "push gas car go, push brake car stop" buy a MAC.

[Occulus]

34. You need to check your update settings

It sounds to me like they're all set to the same default. Trust, there is a way to set it up so Windows notifies you, doesn't download anything, and asks nicely if you want to restart, without doing it automagically.

My own PCs are all set up like that.

[Ms. Toad]

40. Unfortunately, I don't have that option at work

that decision is dictated by office procedure.

As annoying as it is to have the shut-down at home, it is nice to have them set the same way so I have an early warning about what will happen once I get to work. I rarely lose anything important at home by the abrupt shut-down. I get 10 minutes warning and can delay it - IF I notice the shut-down window immediately. More often than not it unobtrusively blinks in the tray and I don't notice it until I get the "Are you really sure you want to shut down now without saving anything?" window - which also pops up if I have klutzy fingers and accidentally hit the keystroke combination that closes the active window. I respond as if I've accidentally hit the close the active window keystroke combination to tell it to continue working (which it can't do if it is in the process of shutting down), so it shuts down and doesn't save anything.

What I haven't figured out is how to convert the the shut-down window into a pop-up window instead of a pop-under window. I'd be fine (and would notice the window) if it opened on top of the active window. I haven't spent a lot of time looking for it - this thread may prompt me to do that. My participation here was mostly moral support for someone who (within the last day - based on my last update) is experiencing similar frustrations - particularly when the OP was told there couldn't possibly be that many updates. The only reason I've participated beyond that is that condescending comments made (out of the blue) in response to my post.

(That last comment is not addressed to you - your suggestions were polite and well intended - and I may eventually get motivated enough with my home computer to see if I can convert the pop-under window into a pop-over one. That way I'll still have the early warning system for work but will be less likely to lose something (at home) I'm in the middle of writing).

[Orsino]

12. I've had only one atuo-update to Vista, right before Thanksgiving.

I don't know why anyone should be receiving them every day.

[Subdivisions]

14. I've been looking at this since I posted the OP. I looked at the update

history and I've had 12 updates this month, not including the one waiting in my system tray.

[Ms. Toad]

20. Three here since Thanksgiving

(Which required two computer restarts).

7 Vista updates total in November for me. (Lots of other updates - the 7 are Vista only).

[lapfog_1]

7. Vista was a error ridden mistake.

I don't know about "7" yet.

turn the updates off and do them manually, but only if you think you can remember.

What are they doing? Well, mostly they install "patches", that is, code that resides as part of the operating system is replaced by "better" code. Sometimes these changes are security related, as in some mistake or other was made with the older OS code that allowed a "hacker" to exploit the mistake and gain unauthorized access to your computer. So the updates are needed, but more than once a week is not all that big a deal. Usually its days or weeks (or even years) between the time that the exploit (mistake) is found by the hackers before M$ releases an update that closes it... so a few extra days isn't really that important. If you machine is a target of hackers or has super secret stuff on it, you've likely taken care of this in other ways (like the really super secret computers are never attached to the internet to begin with).

Often, when they install a update (or patch), they have to adjust many dozens to hundreds of files that make up the Windows OS, so you will see a lot of disk activity and your computer can run a bit more slowly while it's happening.

I'm still running XP SP 2 on my windoze machines, but my important stuff is on my Linux and FreeBSD machines. I use windows for some apps that don't have equivalents in Linux land and do web surfing. Someday, probably a year from now, I might migrate to "7". But probably not until I do a major hardware upgrade.

[madokie]

13. not from micro$haft anymore

I made the switch over to linux and found I can run the only windows program I need or use, AutoCad, just fine using wine.

[Deja Q]

23. WINE emulates Win32. A native Linux API would run faster.

Better yet, go Mac. Best of both worlds - solid quality software, with Unix reliability.

[anonymous171]

38. Don't forget expensive, shitty hardware that you cannot repair or upgrade by yourself

[TroglodyteScholar]

50. +1,000,000 n/t

[madokie]

41. maybe true but I have AutoCad already and it cost 4 big ones

way too much money for me to fork over for what I do with it. I know the program inside and out write my own commands the whole nine yards so It would be foolish to go to something else plus there's no equivalent program for AutoCad anywhere close to its price range for any of the platform.


I've been playing around with the different linux distros for a couple years now and finally decided after using window 7 beta and then rc1 that since I'm going to have a pretty big learning curve anyway that I may as well put the effort into linux and be done with it so here I am a happy camper. At first I kept a two boot system with XP for autocad but then I got serious about getting AutoCad to run under wine and found that to be rather easy so now I'm linux all the way. No gates any where on this machine now.

[Greyhound]

42. The (any) emulator does slow things down, but the superior OS better utilizes your

hardware, so it's probably close to a wash. As long as it works fast enough for you there is no problem.

Our problem (and the only reason I'm writing this from XP) is Intuit. They've locked Quickbooks Pro so into windoze that I haven't found an emulator that will run it.
:(

[madokie]

45. I had to make a couple registry changes to make autocad work

and locate and copy a couple files and relocate them. but other than that it was pretty easy

[Occulus]

60. There seem to be alternatives available for linux

Take a look at this link:

http://www.linuxhomenetworking.com/forums/showthread.php/12287-open-source-alternative-to-quickbooks

[HopeHoops]

15. Turn it off. If you want an update, run a full backup first and THEN get the update.

Automatic update is not only annoying, it can be dangerous. But assuming you're one of the lucky ones who never has your system go funky after an update, the REALLY disturbing behavior is when it just decided to reboot to finish installing an update and gives you that "Do not turn off the computer" message - RIGHT WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING ON A TIGHT DEADLINE!!!!

[Bitwit1234]

16. In one of the updates they put in some to

Adobe and it took over part of my screen and I had to restore the computer to get rid of it. And it was automatic. I didn't do anything. My son blamed me for downloading something when I called him from his computer to fix it. But I wasn't even at the computer at the time. When I came back the screen showed Adobe crap.

[Deja Q]

22. Not 'nerdy' in a good way.

Buy a Mac, go Linux, or don't use the things. Be proactive. Ditch shitsoft.

[TicketyBoo]

25. What happens when Windows updates?

I yawn and continue using Mac OS X.

[Xenotime]

32. Get a mac. It's the progressive option.

[anonymous171]

35. That's a joke right? Apple is just as bad as microsoft.

They just have better PR.

[Occulus]

37. The truly progressive option is linux, actually.

Community supported, very polished, capable of running many Windows apps, and COMPLETELY OPEN and totally free.

If game developers ever started fully supporting OpenGL, gamers could switch to linux and Windows would wither and possibly eventually die. I think that's about the only thing hold linux back in popularity at this point.

The fact that OSX is (known oversimplification follows) BSD repackaged makes me giggle, though....

[TroglodyteScholar]

51. Apple is just a different, less successful corporation.

Community-supported, open-source operating systems are the progressive options.

[Posteritatis]

53. LOL at bringing left-right politics into the OS war (nt)

[Feron]

33. Turn off Windows Defender.

That is what is updating daily. However if you do that, make sure that you have an anti-spyware app to take its place. Many security suites already have this integrated.

Regular updates are the second Tuesday of every month. Occasionally there will be two updates a month.

Whatever you do, DO NOT turn off Windows updates. Patches help keep your computer malware free.

[NNN0LHI]

39. Are you sure it isn't trying to download and install the same update over and over like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=242x27463

[icnorth]

43. What happens when Windows updates? This maybe?

Microsoft investigates Windows 7 'screen of death'

Microsoft has confirmed that it is investigating a problem described as the "black screen of death", which affects its latest operating system.
The error means that users of Windows 7 see a totally black screen after logging on to the system.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8388253.stm

[Occulus]

61. The article goes on to say that the firm that tested the updates was incorrect

and they've in fact issued a retraction. They have pinned down malware as the cause, and have issued a fix. Note that the fix doesn't work for all users, and that the problem extends to both Vi$ta and XP as well.

[icnorth]

66. Thanks Occulus, I didn't catch the follow up. n/t

[Blue-Jay]

44. What are you afraid of?

Nothing is going to happen to you. It's a fucking computer update.

[PeaceNikki]

47. Um... software updates are a good thing.

And if you're getting DAILY updates, you're not installing them timely. What OS are you on? I'm on XP and I get at most 2/month. I think you're doing it wrong. Also... why would they be "snooping"? That's silly and kinda tin-foily.

[TroglodyteScholar]

49. It is simply *stupid* to turn off Windows updates

The vast, vast majority of them are released to make your computer safer and more secure.

If you're paranoid about WHAT Windows is doing when it updates, then why would you trust Microsoft to power your computer at all? Switch to Linux (Ubuntu is easy) or get a Mac (please don't).

[NEDem]

52. leave auto-updates on.

I doubt you are seeing 'nearly daily updates'. They release updates on one Tuesday of each month. The other updates are probably coming from other programs. I can't think of the last time they had an emergency update and broke with the update schedule. If you aren't allowing time for all the updates to download, that might be part of the problem. Ignoring the simple fact that Vista is shit software, turning off automatic updates is probably the worst possible thing you could do to your computer.

[dusmcj]

63. Bill Gates' operating system sucks dick. Turn off auto upd and pull them at your convenience

XP allows you to choose being notified but not get auto-downloads or installs. Yes, I also would not allow any company to dump junk on my computer at their convenience rather than mine.

The only reason I run Microsoft's absolutely shitless operating system is that I expect my home computer to be a toaster with an on switch which I can use to access the internet and occasionally run simple apps. (It's actually a very nice computer, but the operating system sucks dick and reduces it to a toy.) The cost-benefit differential of using Winblows to accomplish that mission is shrinking daily though.

[TrogL]

64. Attempting yet again to fix their abomination of a GUI bolted on the DOS kernel

Windows is designed broken from the bottom up. Its security model is a complete joke. Its memory management was out of date 20 years ago. Because the code is in-house, few eyes scrutinize it for obvious blunders. Lots of code hasn't changed since DOS 3.4.1.

Hence, just like duct-taping a 30-year-old clunker in a desperate attempt to get just a few more miles out of it before it falls apart completely, Microsoft keeps putting out band-aid solutions. It'd be far kinder to just take it out and shoot it and start over.

[dusmcj]

65. someone with a knowledge of history, how refreshing

amusing how America's corporate visionaries (tm) latched onto it with all their might, and then complained about unfair competition from quarters (e.g. academia/govlabs) not subject to the benefits of "market competition". Cut that tax funding of R&D you bastards, you want to make us look bad ?

Bwahahahaha.