Police Kill SUSPECTED Cop Killer

[gopiscrap]

In south Seattle early this morning a lone officer gunned down Maurice Celmmons the suspect in the fatal shooting of four Lakewood, Washington cops on Sunday morning. Maybe he did it, or maybe he didn't. Now we might never know. The tv reports reported it saying he was running away. I just knew that this would end in his death. I don't even think the Seattle cop tried to apprehend him with out harm!

[xultar]

1. I predicted this outcome. I know right? I'm a psychic.

[NYC_SKP]

29. Yah, amazing. What are the Odds of a Cop Killer being found and killed by... a Cop?!

:hi:

Nice work, Columbo!

:P

[11 Bravo]

95. Which outcome? The knee-jerk cop bashing that is intrinsic to DU ...

or a killer catching one in the 10 ring while trying to escape?

[xultar]

113. That the cops were going to kill his ass.

[gopiscrap]

184. No kidding I predicted that as soon as it happened

[niceypoo]

170. Note no word about a cop missing a gun

...til it is 'found' on the suspect.

[Teaser]

2. "I don't even think the Seattle cop tried to apprehend him with out harm!"

your eyewitness testimony will be very valuable in this case.

[Vinnie From Indy]

24. lol

I think that if I were on scene with a fugitive suspected of executing FOUR police officers as they sat in a coffee shop and the dirtbag did anything other than show his hands immediately, I would shoot him. Sure, there are unjustifiable police shootings, but not ALL are unjustified.

[Renew Deal]

3. Let me guess. You think the Somali pirates are fishermen?

[LisaL]

17. They are nature enthusiasts, don't you know?

[Buzz Clik]

39. SUSPECTED fishermen.

[NYC_SKP]

4. Lesson: Do Not EVER Be a Suspected Cop Killer!!!

I hope the shoot was legit, hope they had the right guy.

Sucks if they didn't.

:patriot:

[seabeyond]

28. lesson. when you kill cops, dont turn and run when caught. nt

[Spirochete]

116. That's what I don't get

This guy liked to kill cops, and he was armed. The cop was alone. You'd think he'd welcome the opportunity to shoot at another cop on his way out of town.

[seabeyond]

122. not really fair if gun already pointed and not surprising cop is it. not an easy kill

much easier to kill a cop walking past them, pulling gun, turning and shooting. lot more chance at killing and not being killed.

his option start reaching for gun, and get shot. turn and run and maybe be shot. or do what cop said.

[Spirochete]

168. Yeah, I suppose you're right

Just seems it would be more dicey to open up on 4 cops than drawing on just one of them. Then again, I'm not as much of a wack job as this guy was.

[cliffordu]

51. IF they'd thought it was me,

I'd strip naked and walk into the nearest police station. I'd strip so NO ONE would think I had a weapon.

Or a very big one.

[NYC_SKP]

56. OMG, just puhleeze don't walk in backwards...

I have no idea what that means, it just sounds scarier!

:P

[951-Riverside]

162. and if its black don't reach down and grab it.

[Bumblebee]

5. He had one of the slain officers' guns

how do you think he obtained it if he did not do it?

[Sukie]

8. Seven up. :) n/t

[Bumblebee]

22. ya, kinda wish people armed themselves with the info easily available out there

before posting... unrealistic, I know :-)

[gopiscrap]

32. Could have bought it illegally fromthe who did do it

In our country Maurice Clemmons is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law

[Bumblebee]

41. admirable sentiments; delusional reasoning

[TroglodyteScholar]

160. Supporting ACTUAL American justice is delusional thinking?

Wow.

[jberryhill]

139. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a procedural presumption in a trial

...it is not some command to perform Jedi mind tricks.

The presumption causes the prosecution to have a burden of going forward and proving guilt to an impartial jury.

In other words, I am not somehow required to think of the guy who robbed me as an "alleged" criminal.

[marlakay]

83. My husband doesn't think he had time to take a gun

with shooting them then fighting with the last guy and getting shot. He left his gun at the coffee shop and they didn't want to shoot him without a gun, DH thinks they planted gun on him after listening to all witnesses to know exactly what they saw.

[onenote]

111. ridiculous

he was in a struggle with the last cop he killed. How much time would it take to grab the gun from that cop when he went down at the shooter's feet?

And how many cops in seattle had the gun of one of the dead cops from Lakewood? Just the ones that happened to find the guy? And yes, it was the guy. No ifs ands or buts about it. Read up on the entire story.

[niceypoo]

172. Not a word about any missing guns

til it is 'found' on the suspect

[Sukie]

6. He was found with a gun from one of the slain cops.

Hmm. Wonder how he got it?

[Robb]

7. Silly post.

The guy's probably got a slug in his belly from one of the murdered officers' guns. OMGCONSPIRACEEE!!!111!

[NYC_SKP]

27. Prolly shot HISSELF with the Gun they PLANTED on Him!!11!!

Or sumpin...

[Xenotime]

49. I had that exact thought.

[Neecy]

9. This was entirely predictable

If a guy is running and not a threat to the officer, don't they try to shoot to bring him down, not fill him with lead?

Cop execution, pure and simple. I knew this would be the outcome.

[Robb]

12. Maybe in a movie.

The beat cop should've shot a convenient rope holding a crate dangling over the guy's head so he would be trapped harmlessly, perhaps. :shrug:

Nice to see the cop haters waited 24 hours before starting their ranting. Mighty nice of you.

[Neecy]

19. I'm not a cop hater

I think that this guy, if he indeed is the killer (and it appears that he is) could have been brought down to stand trial. We don't allow anyone in this country to be judge, jury and executioner.

[Missy Vixen]

65. He executed the four cops that sat in a coffee shop Sunday morning

That's okay, though. He preserved their civil rights. :sarcasm:

[Confusious]

107. If he has a gun in his hand

Running, lying down, dancing the lambada ( The Forbidden Dance!) he's going to get his ass shot. Only the stupid don't realize this.

[Shell Beau]

20. Cop execution?

Really?

I wonder when the last time you were in this type of a situation. What did you do? How did you handle it? :eyes: So easy to say when you have NO CLUE.

[seabeyond]

30. he has a gun. one cop. guy is running away. murderer. kills cops. and you are on cops ass

cause he didnt go for the kill?

just wound the dude, so more chance once guy is down he can kill the lone cop.

wtf

[Renew Deal]

33. You're right.

Your post was completely predictable.

[brendan120678]

36. When an officer is in a situation where...

the use of lethal force is necessary, usually the rule of thumb is to aim at center body mass (i.e., chest) not at a knee or leg.
That way, the risk of collateral damage is reduced.

[cliffordu]

53. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

[Cid_B]

71. To answer your question...

No they don't...

It is NEVER acceptable to shoot to wound. Center mass.. always...

[proteus_lives]

137. Yep. Shoot to wound is for the movies.

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. Suspected?

Uh, there were eyewitnesses in the coffee shop, and he had the gun that he stole from one of the cops that he killed. And he was about to use that gun on another cop, so there was no time to call for backup.

Sometimes cops DO kill suspects out of revenge, but this sounds like a "clean" kill to me, with the only other possible outcome being another dead cop, and whomever else got in this piece of shit's way.

Don't mourn Maurice Clemmons. He definitely wouldn't extend you the same courtesy if you were in his shoes.

[gateley]

11. He was the guy - he had the wounds he received when he shot the 4 cops. There

was one Seattle cop at 2 in the morning alone in a car, noticed movement behind him, got out and recognized Clemmens. Told Clemmens to show his hands and he refused. I don't know if Clemmens went to draw a weapon or not.

I am usually of the same mind you are -- the suspect always gets killed, but in this instance I think it's legit. It's the guy - there's proof he was the shooter. If I were that cop and saw the person who shot 4 fellow cops in cold blood and knew he was carrying (which those who had helped him escape told cops he was), I'd be scared to death. I don't know if apprehending him without harm would have been top on my list of priorities. I'd have been very conscious of the fact that I could become cop #5.

[TwilightGardener]

13. Even if this guy, by some crazy mistake, WASN'T the cop killer, I'm not gonna shed a tear

for this violent asshole.

[Xenotime]

14. Why didn't he just tazer him and bring him under control?

No. It seems they just act as judge, jury and executioner anymore. Prepare for more copycat retaliation attacks. This is not the way to stop violence.

[Vinnie From Indy]

35. Well,

imagine yourself a LONE cop at 2:30 in the morning on a dark lonely street and you look in the rearview mirror of your squad car as a man approaches from behind. As he gets closer you recognize him as the suspect in the unprovoked, execution-style slayings of four police officers as they sat in a coffee shop. Would you jump out of your car with your taser in your hand or your firearm? If you answer yes you would attempt to taser him first, you would undoubtedly be dead cop #5.

[John N Morgan]

37. judge, jury and executioner. Even soldiers can bring in prisoners.

[Vinnie From Indy]

60. What a perfectly incomprehensible reply!

Cheers!

[Marr]

82. You have GOT to be kidding me.

Why didn't this lone cop use a fucking TAZER on an armed man suspected of killing cops? I'm sorry, but that's just absurd.

[Caliman73]

104. Easy to say

If you suspect that a fugitive who is implicated in the murders of 4 police officers, who is highly likely to be carrying a firearm which he has used to kill other officers, is in front of you, and he is not complying with your requests to submit to apprehension; you are saying that you, the lone responding officer, would use a taser to bring down this suspect?

[cali]

109. spoken like someone who doesn't know what went down.

this was ONE cop who had to make a split second decision.

[Merchant Marine]

121. Because you don't bring a tazer to a gunfight

Tazers are only useful for administering punishment to anyone who annoys the cop.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

126. Not wise to use a taser on a man with a gun.

[Supply Side Jesus]

130. Have you ever been face to face with a killer before?

especially one that was the most wanted man in America?

when you do, let me know how you react. Then tell me if less than lethal force comes to mind first.

[Pavulon]

134. Right after they gave him a BJ? Really wake up

the guy killed for police officers. The officer shot him when he failed to follow instructions and reached. I feel worse about a corn filled turd getting flushed than this guy getting stamped.

Yeah, that guys violence is stopped.

[proteus_lives]

138. He had a gun!

What's wrong with you? Can't damp down your LEO-hate even in this situation?

[LisaL]

15. Yes, trying to apprehend this guy without harm should have

been on the mind of every police officer. Give me a frigging break.

[Crabby Appleton]

16. Good

[blogslut]

18. From the NYT

In an interview, the city’s interim police chief, John Diaz, said a Seattle officer had been patrolling a working-class neighborhood in south Seattle around 2:45 a.m. when he came across an empty car on the street, its engine idling and its hood raised. The officer called in a report on the vehicle, which turned out to be stolen. He was sitting in his patrol cruiser, writing up paperwork, when he saw Mr. Clemmons approaching from behind.

The officer, a seven-year veteran, recognized Mr. Clemmons “immediately,” Mr. Diaz said, and noticed that the suspect was trying to pull something from one of his pockets. He ordered Mr. Clemmons to put his hands up, but he refused and began to move away from the officer. The officer shot at least twice, Mr. Diaz said. Mr. Clemmons was pronounced dead at the scene.

“It’s not the way we wanted it to end,” Mr. Diaz said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/us/02tacoma.html

[slackmaster]

23. I always knew the NYT was in bed with racists who want to kill all black people

:sarcasm:

[LeFleur1]

31. You Mean Send Him to A Mental Institution?

..so he can be declared cured and let go to kill again, like one of the "mentally ill" did last year in our area? They have this man on security camera, baristas and others identified him. This ambush/murder of four police officers wasn't this guy's first offense. He had regularly committed violent felonies any time he was out of prison, of which he was convicted.
When an officer is in danger from a man with a gun he shoots to kill.
You don't like it? I hope one of these violent robbers, rapists, assaulters that is let out of prison doesn't kill you or one of yours.
Go ahead, cry for him. I live in the area of the murders and I won't shed a tear for this criminal/murderer. He's off the street. Everyone is a little safer.

[blogslut]

34. Who are you addressing?

I posted a quote from a news article. I gave no opinion.

[Matariki]

101. My boyfriend's car was stolen from my quiet Seattle neighborhood a few days ago

and totaled in a high speed chase, but the person got away. Maybe it was that guy? :scared:

[SoxFan]

21. BAAAAA! BAAAA! COP BAAAD! COP BAAAAD!

Some of you are a bunch of damn sheep. Guess what, kids, there are bad people in this world, and not every person who dies in a police shootout is a poor, oppressed victim.

[DainBramaged]

25. They would never understand that from their isolated lives......

or from their basement headquarters......

[cliffordu]

58. That is exactly fucking right.

Infantile purity patrols, keyboard anarchists, creature comfort seeking pajama people, one and all.

[dorkulon]

154. Yes. Everyone you disagree with lives in their mom's basement.

Most tired insult on the internet.

[SeattleGirl]

57. +10

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

141. If you've ever read the OP's posts about cops......

....I doubt they give a shit about the four officers.

[seabeyond]

26. murder and rapist does not stop. turns and run. lone cop. he gets shot.

put the blame on the murderer, not the cop.

cop did his job

[John N Morgan]

38. judge, jury and executioner...all three jobs

[seabeyond]

43. no. apprehend criminal. that is his job. nt

[cali]

110. insane. idiotic and loathsome- all three combined into your posts

in this thread.

congrats on that and

unwelcome to DU.

[msanthrope]

131. Welcome to DU!!!! Not. n/t

[Xenotime]

40. His job is to kill innocent people?

He is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Not just guilty because it's the way he feels. That's a Bush way of thinking.

[slackmaster]

42. His job was to stop a fleeing felony suspect

Which is a justifiable use of deadly force.

[seabeyond]

44. was he suppose to let the killer run away? are you really suggesting the cop says stop.

the guy says no. and the cop says, ok.

[Xithras]

45. Only innocent in the eyes of the law.

There's a difference between actual guilt and legal guilt. Legal guilt must be established for the state to impose an official punishment on your. Actual guilt is yours from the moment a crime is committed, whether a jury agrees or not.

In this case, there's little doubt of his actual guilt. I'm not going to mourn the fact that a jury didn't get a chance to concur.

[Xenotime]

46. And he was a law ENFORCEMENT officer.

This is not the wild west where they hang "Wanted Dead or Alive" posters all over town. At least we can agree this was a bad situation no matter how you look at it.

[seabeyond]

52. not really. better than the killer pulling out his gun ans shootin another cop

trying to bring him in. or him getting away and fortifying and killing more during confrontation. or killer getting away and a lifetime of murder not ever caught. i can see many ways this could have been worse than what it is.

[Xithras]

59. Ever notice that the root of "Enforcement" is "Force"?

Force - Power or strength
En-force - To use power or strength
En-force-ment - The act of using power or strength.

They use force to carry out the law. And the law says that fleeing felony murder suspects can be shot if their escape poses an imminent danger to the public.

Like it or not, he was doing what he's paid to do. American cops aren't paid to be Officer Friendly, but to use whatever force they need to in order to carry out the will of the state. When I was a kid, the police in my hometown were "Officers of the Peace"...it was on their badges and painted on the sides of their cars. At some point in the late 80's or early 90's they became "Law Enforcement Officers". Most people didn't think much of it, but the change enveloped far more than a title on a badge.

[Caliman73]

105. No, we can't agree.

Would you be happy if the police officer had continued to try to verbally engage the suspect until he drew a weapon and shot the officer dead? Would you be happy if the police officer had given chase to the fleeing suspect, tackled him, then had to wrestle him down putting his life in grave danger, just to preserve the life of the suspected murderer?

[cali]

112. he was a police officer sitting in his patrol car writing up a report

when he was approached by a felon he recognized as having murdered four people in cold blood. His duty to the public was to stop the guy. He did. Thankfully.

[Pavulon]

135. Wise up. If you pulled this in germany or uk with armed police

you would be just as fucking dead. Dont know which country on "is better than the us" list you want to pick but any law officer there would stamp you for drawing on him. END FUCKING STORY.

Reality eludes you.

[jberryhill]

142. Then NOBODY should be arrested - since they are all presumed innocent, right?

No, you do not understand the principle of the presumption of innocence.

It is a rule of criminal procedure in court. It is not a moral command.

If somebody hits you over the head with a rock, you do not have to think of that person as innocent.

A man near a stolen vehicle matching the description of a violent murderer approached a cop at 2:45 AM, and refused to comply with instructions.

[cliffordu]

61. Excellent answer.

[Obamanaut]

88. No, he is not innocent until PROVEN guilty. I think you'll find that the

presumption of innocence is what is implied in the constitution, but as soon as someone performs a misdeed, any misdeed, that person is in fact guilty.

Check this out

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#innocent

Innocent Until Proven Guilty
First, it should be pointed out that if you did it, you're guilty, no matter what. So you're not innocent unless you're truly innocent. However, our system presumes innocence, which means that legally speaking, even the obviously guilty are treated as though they are innocent, until they are proven otherwise.

The concept of the presumption of innocence is one of the most basic in our system of justice. However, in so many words, it is not codified in the text of the Constitution. This basic right comes to us, like many things, from English jurisprudence, and has been a part of that system for so long, that it is considered common law. The concept is embodied in several provisions of the Constitution, however, such as the right to remain silent and the right to a jury.

[malaise]

102. Unless his name is

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzo et al.

[Confusious]

114. Your living in a fantasyland

He has committed multiple felonies across the United States, he's a suspect in 4 shootings, he ignores warnings, he goes for something in his pants.

What about this scene do you not get? If it was me, I would have shot him too.

What about the cops life? Does he not get anything just because he is a cop?

Only a hardened criminal or a person so lacking in intelligence as to not even have brain would ignore a warning from a cop. I've had cuffs on me for minor things. When a cop says do something, sit, stand, be quiet, stop, I do it.

[midnight]

47. I thought in situations like this, a taser is suppose to be used. Now we

will not hear the facts in a trial with a jury.

[Xenotime]

50. Yup.

[seabeyond]

54. wrong. this is absolutely NOT where the taser is used in armed and dangerous. geez. nt

[cliffordu]

Not if the suspect is armed or the cop is alone.

This fucking guy PROBABLY killed 4 cops - I'm glad the officer that shot him isn't dead along with them.

Bringing in a guy who is the only suspect in the killing four people - armed, trained people - with a handgun at point blank range leaves NO room for tazering or tickling or bad talk to get him to come in.


The idea that you can actually think that is beyond me.

[Marr]

74. Against an armed man, suspected of killing cops? You're kidding, right?

I used to marvel at right-wingers' ability to reflexively defend the actions of cops without ever knowing the details, but I've slowly come to realize we've got an element that's just as unconcerned with reality, and just as comfortable making kneejerk accusations based on no more than gut instinct.

[cliffordu]

79. Yep. Precisely

[cali]

115. bzzzt. that's just flat out as wrong as it could be.

Using a taser in this situation is absolutely not what is supposed to happen. that's literally insane. And majorly fucking brain dead stupid.

[Confusious]

119. An armed, dangerous felon and you want the cop to use a taser

???????????

Maybe if we all collect enough flowers and throw them at the criminals, we can stop crime!

[seabeyond]

123. collect enough flowers and throw them ... it has become that extreme,

hasnt it

made me laugh in a frustrated moment.

wtf do we expect of our cops. on the other hand, i am the first on their ass for abuse of power. but not this one.

[spin]

132. I think you've been watching too many Star Trek reruns. (n/t)

[jberryhill]

144. Not true

If a police officer fires a weapon, there is an investigation.

[ORDagnabbit]

48. now if we could only do this with all the other violent offenders we would have less full jails and

more money for intervention and treatment at an early age instead of spending millions on defending wastes of carbon like this one.

[gratuitous]

55. Oh come on!

You expect that when people are scared, hyped up on media overload, and inculcated with the holy gospel of the High Church of Redemptive Violence that some ancient document like the United States Constitution is going to rule our lives? Psshhh! We're a nation of men of action who don't have time for all your silly laws and your due process and such-like. If the cause is just enough and right enough, the Constitution can go into the shredder with the rest of the garbage, whether it's gunning down a man in the street early in the morning on one man's say-so or launching a couple of elective and speculative invasions. Fear and violent action trump all those dull, dreary, boring laws and stuff.

We celebrate the subversion of the law when it makes us feel good.

[seabeyond]

62. were is the killers responsibility in stopping when cop has gun trained on and tells

you to stop

you all are so full of it totally ignoring a killer running away to have you sanctimonious moment

[gratuitous]

67. How fast was he running? What direction?

You seem to have an awful lot of information for a situation where it appears only two people were present, and one of them is dead.

I'll stand by my original statement: This nation follows the law only when it's convenient to do so, and we celebrate law-breaking if it makes us feel good. Some people think that's the most dangerous time to break the law, even when the cheerleaders have to interrupt their celebration to holler "sanctimony."

[seabeyond]

70. sure you will stand by your position. fuck the cops safety. nt

[gratuitous]

87. Where did I say that?

But put whatever gloss you want on it, as long as the subversion of the law makes you feel good, it's all right. Does it matter which law is broken, or how good it makes you feel? Like, if it's a really important law (to you), then maybe it shouldn't be broken? Or if you feel pretty good but not really good about the breaking of the law, the law-breaker should be sort of punished, but not really? Are emotions part of the equation? If you're really scared, it's okay, but if you're just mad, it's not? Or vice versa? It'd be good if we could draw a bright line beforehand so that nobody need worry his or her pretty little head about the fungibility of the law.

[seabeyond]

90. simple. the man killed cops. the cop knew his life was in danger.

yes, that matters.

[Supply Side Jesus]

129. Plus the cop saw him approaching from behind!

can you imagine the adrenaline laced fear that cop went through when he saw him approaching with hand in coat pocket!

I would have cleared leather that would make Billy the Kid blush.

I defintly want to hear how it all went down besides these very sketchy reports 'journalists' are blathering about.

[jberryhill]

146. Why do cops carry guns?

Seriously, why do you think we give them guns?

[cliffordu]

66. You're right about everything, of course, and the suspect was actually

trying to get the gummy bears out of his pocket to share with the officer when the cop went all rogue on him and shot him.

[gratuitous]

69. Another full information post!

Which pocket was the guy reaching into? Front or back? Was he standing under a streetlight, or kind of in the shadows? Five feet away, 25 feet away, or right next to the cop?

My goodness, I would have thought the streets were pretty deserted at 2:30 in the morning, but there was quite a crowd there, all cheering and waving pom-poms for the officer.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ismnotwasm]

157. There were witnesses

Who overheard the cop shout a warning, and who also heard the shots themselves.

[seabeyond]

72. lol lol. oooooh. my world has become topsy turvy. nt

[SoCalDem]

63. He was carrying a service revolver from one of the cops he killed

and a cop-bullet was in his belly.. The state of WA was spared a lot of angst and expense..who knows? he might have taken another cop's life before being subdued..

[Missy Vixen]

64. You know what? GOOD.

The local news is reporting that he may have had as many as seven accomplices in his crime.

There are nine kids this morning without a parent because of this waste of human skin. We've also lost five cops in six weeks.

I don't hate the police. I think they have a very difficult and stressful job. I also think that those who would defend this POS haven't read any of the news reports about what happened, what he was convicted of before he was paroled by Huckabee, and generally don't know what they're talking about.

>I don't even think the Seattle cop tried to apprehend him with out harm!<

He was ordered to stop multiple times and had a weapon. What should the cop have done? Let Clemmons shoot him to death, too?

Get over yourself.

[Catherine Vincent]

68. The outcome was predictable. nt

[seabeyond]

73. of course it was predictable. violent criminal willing to kill cops not following a cops direction

was about a given

[cliffordu]

78. That's exactly right.

[Raineyb]

77. Unfortunately so is the rah rah cheering of the those who think the cops should be judge jury and

executioner.

I'm sure they'll find the shoot to be legit. (Don't they always) but the idea of people cheering such a shooting is disgusting.

[seabeyond]

80. you tell me what the cop was suppose to do? nt

[Renew Deal]

81. And so is the derision of the police by the cop haters, lunatics, and malcontents

That spend way too much time here.

[Caliman73]

106. I think you are right regarding the cheering, but there is the other side of the coin

There are definitely those who are cheering the idea of this man dying, which is wrong. The shooting will have an effect on whoever cared about the suspect (strange as it may seem)and on the officer and his family. It should not be a cause for celebration. On the other hand you have a group of people who immediately want to crucify the police officer for shooting the suspect and that is equally disgusting. This jump to condemn the officer for protecting his own life is absurd. Police officers are civilians, with slightly more training in the law and techniques with which to enforce it. They are not these precise robots who can calculate and consider all angles at all times. They are people with emotions such as fear and anger who are charged with an incredibly difficult task. There are some who abuse the authority granted, but the assumption of some people here is that they do so all the time and that they are just a bunch of psychopathic killers. The truth is at least somewhere in the middle and both extremes are wrong.

Let's say you are the cop and this guy is walking up on you. If this person wh you recognize as a wanted felon, that you have reason to believe is capable of killing you, is standing right in front of you, not complying with your commands for him to submit, you are going to expose yourself to danger and possible death so that you can spare the person's life? It is easy to say, "He should have done..." or "I would have done..." It is easy to judge when you aren't in that situation at that moment, pissing your pants, fearing for your life and wanting to stop a guy who is going around killing your fellow officers.

[seabeyond]

124. they cannot even come up with a "should have done"..... there is no

"should have done". no "should have done" could be reasoned.

it is simply, bad cop.

[Caliman73]

151. I agree...

I have had my share of experiences with police. My opinion is mixed, but I recognize that they are human and have a difficult job. This is a terrible situation, that had a difficult ending, although it is not quite the end. Like I said, I don't agree with those who are happy that anyone was killed, but I also think that those who are so quick to jump on this police officer are plain wrong as well.

[seabeyond]

153. i havent cheered or rallied or condoned the death of the man. he is irrelevent.

i am merely talking about the cops choices and action.

a man kills four cops. if it is lack of sympathy people = to cheer, well, they are wrong.

[Caliman73]

159. I was not inferring that you cheered.

I read many of your posts and I understand what you were arguing regarding the officer's options.

I am not sympathetic to the alleged killer regarding his situation either. I recognize the situation as having no other positive outcome than that the officer was not another victim killed or injured by this person, although I am sure killing another person will affect him some way. There were other posters who were saying things like, "Good, saves us money for a trial...." or "Another scumbag off the streets..." and the like. That kind of cavalier attitude towards death is disturbing.

I understand the impulse to want revenge and to see perceived "bad guys" pay for their crimes, but I think that expressing pleasure at someone else having to kill another person is not a good thing.

[seabeyond]

163. i know you werent saying to me. something i wanted to say, lol, in title

but i agree with your post too. the worst of the worst and i have no need to cheer the death..... ever.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

127. Do you have a link to someone here cheering and saying that is the way it should be?

[ismnotwasm]

165. That's not what I think, or feel

This is an area that lost a police officer and had one injured by a similar shooting less than a month ago. The suspect in that first shooting was shot and injured, but not killed. This latest shooting on top of the first one is extremely difficult for a community to bear and for a police force to handle. The police were under an intense, almost breathless scrutiny by the media (the media always loving death in whatever form). A lone police officer, approached by a suspect --whose description was everywhere, even in the hospital I work in, when they thought he might show up there-- acted in the only way left to him.

If anything, I suspect it was suicide by cop. The guy was gut shot, and must have suffered horrible for the two days he was on the run.

[TicketyBoo]

76. This much I'll say…

no governor will ever have a chance to commute his sentence the way Mike Huckabee did.

I can't see anything bad about that.

[Obamanaut]

84. So the conversation when facing apprehension should gone something

like this, according to some here:

"Excuse me sir. I hate to inconvenience you at this time, but knowing that you were convicted of killing police officers several years ago, and now being suspected of doing it again, do you think you might like to come to headquarters so that we can get to the bottom of this."

No. The way it turned out saves money on trials, incarceration expense, appeals expense, and even eliminates the possibility of yet another clemency gone awry.

[seabeyond]

85. actually i am curious what those mad at the cop suggest the cop would do. instead

of just yelling out bad cop, i would like to hear what their expectation is of the cop. have asked. get no reply

[11 Bravo]

89. Obviously the cop should have lassoed the varmint, pinning his arms to his side ...

and then taken him safely to jail.

[seabeyond]

91. ya know. nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

143. Nah.....

....the OP probably thinks the cop should take a few chest shots first before groaning "Stop in the name of the law!"

[montanto]

86. I hope the fact that he "may" have killed the four cops

doesn't make it okay that the cops killed him. I mean, if he had the gun drawn, or went for it, that's one thing. But if they found it in his pocket after he was dead, I think that makes the cop's acion not much better than Clemons' own.

[seabeyond]

92. so... the cop was to let him get away. escalate situation to where criminal may have upper hand

and kill the cop. other people life at risk.

all that doesnt matter

and they knew he killed 4 cops. not "may"

[montanto]

93. I had no idea they "knew" he killed the four cops.

I had heard that he was a suspect. "Let him get away." No. The cop should have arrested him. But, if it is as you say, and to extend your argument, then: If the cops "know" that someone killed someone else (especially if by "someone else" you mean cops), then they should simply kill that person on sight so as not to escalate a situation elsewhere. Got it. Sounds good to me. Do you know if the guy had the slain cop's gun out, or did the cop shoot him as a preemptive strike?

[seabeyond]

94. why do you all conveniently leave out the guy was running away

you pretend that is not even a part of the story. pretty relevent piece to leave out in your argument

sure, he tried to arrest him. yes, the answer is arrest him. had gun pointed, told him to stop. simple, arrest

no fuckin way.... the killer RAN.

[montanto]

99. I'm not pretending anything.

I don't understand how this thing went down. The reason I'm asking about it here is that I haven't seen a source say that the guy pulled a gun, and people here seem to have some source that I haven't seen yet. Last I read the guy was a "suspect" and I read that he was shot while running away. I am simply curious if the guy was a "suspect" and was shot while running away, or if he had pulled a gun on the cop, or what. So, if you are saying that the guy was a "suspect," pulled a gun on the cop in the process of being arrested, then that answers my question. Thanks. The fact that he "pulled a gun" is not part of any official news that I have seen.

[seabeyond]

103. i didnt say he pulled a gun. the man was known to have killed the cops, they have to say suspect

cause they say suspect does not mena they dont KNOW. they have to assume he had a gun, since he had a gun walking into donut shop. now he is fugitive running from law. pretty good deduction he is gonna have a gun. since they KNOW he killed cops, pretty safe bet to assume a cop taking him down is at risk. the cop told him to stop. he did not. he turned and ran. the cop shot him.

[montanto]

108. K thanks.

[cali]

117. if that's what you think, you're sick, sick, sick.

seriously, only the deranged or terminally stupid could think that what the cop did was "not much better....".

fucked up.

[TheWebHead]

96. defending this guy isn't a winning issue for anyone...

being on the run in a stolen car isn't the behavior one exhibits when innocent of charges.

[Bertha Venation]

97. The mind boggles at this:

"I don't even think the Seattle cop tried to apprehend him with out harm!"

You were there?

[Fla_Democrat]

98. It's not a good day to be a bad guy.

Gentlemen, by all means, I think we ought to have an introspective moment of silence for poor ol' Tin Tin. :nopity:


http://www.atlyrics.com/quotes/c/crowthe.html

[WorseBeforeBetter]

100. You're quite the little shit-stirrer, aren't you?

"I don't even think the Seattle cop tried to apprehend him with out harm!"

Do you think anyone takes you seriously?

[walldude]

118. LMFAO...

Troll.

[Generic Other]

120. Are you serious?

They would shoot your grandma if she was the suspect in a cop killing and failed to respond to police orders to surrender. When you are a wanted fugitive that has been on the run for days, and a cop tells you to stop, you ought to stop. Reaching for a gun in your waistband is not the best response.

That cop will be praised for his quick response in this case. From the moment this crime happened, the outcome was easy to predict. Only an idiot like the shooter would think it would end differently.

If I had done what he did, I would expect to be killed.

I will save my sympathies for the 9 children of the dead officers, their spouses, their families, their friends, and their grieving community.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

125. Any evidence that he was shot in the back?

[Supply Side Jesus]

128. well if TV reports said he was running away

then it must be true! :crazy:

Dude killed four cops, do you think he was going to go gently into the night?

[spin]

133. The bad guy is dead. One cop is alive...

Had the cop not reacted or hesitated, he might be dead.

If we had a functioning legal system, this would not have happened.

[BlooInBloo]

136. Always good to check in and see bloodthirsty DUers not caring about due process....

I'm guessing that the hypocritical whines about Obama not respecting due process for gitmo folks will start in about 10 minutes.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

140. They should have lured him into a coffee shop....

....and let him take a few shots at them first. That would be the "fair" thing to do in the name of "justice".

:sarcasm:

[Taverner]

145. Expected. Cops don't like cop killers.

That does not make it right, but that is to be suspected.

Are the cops bad for doing this? No idea - this is one of those things where "nuance" - that dreaded of adjectives here - is involved.

What, exactly, were the circumstances?

[cali]

147. Lone cop sitting in his patrol car at 3 in the morning writing up a report

saw Clemmons approaching, recognized him, shouted at him to put his hands up. Clemmons didn't. The cop shot.

[Taverner]

149. Ouch. Did Clemmons make any quick moves, and about how many seconds were in between points?

Sounds like he fucked up big time

[cali]

150. Don't know the answers to those questions.

I doubt the cop gave him a lot of time to follow his orders.

[Taverner]

155. There should be charges then - a jury should decide

[Pavulon]

164. Jesus return and will walk the earth first(nt)

[Taverner]

167. Of course. But doing what the cop killer was doing was the same as taking out a "made" man

Not a smart career move

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

166. On what possible basis would you even think a grand jury would indict him?

[bettyellen]

173. no, officer just had to have reasonable belief that this guy commited felonies and would do it again

every cop in that would be able to identify that man because they know how to study faces and verify id. this guy was not showing his hand reaching into his waistband and circling the car. all damning behaviour. funny thing is he stole a car with engine trouble, and the cops were there because the fella heard the car get stolen. unbelievable, huh?

[Shell Beau]

174. Charges against the cop? Are you serious?

I would love to see how each and everyone here would react if in the same situation. Man armed and extremely dangerous. Known killer. Or known executioner. Dark alley. Told to freeze. Can't be let back out into public because God knows what he will do. God knows what he has already done (not even mentioning what he did before he murdered 4 people). BUT there should be charges? Yeah, there should be an investigation, like anytime an officer uses his gun, BUT CHARGES???? ARe you fucking kidding me?

[Taverner]

178. If he's innocent he'll be exonerated

[Shell Beau]

179. So he kills an armed and dangerous man on the run, and should be charged?

Makes no damn sense. Put this man through that because he took out the man that killed 4 people? Um, okay. There is always an investigation. But he should only be charged if something comes of the investigation.

[Taverner]

190. From what was explained in an earlier post, the cop's life wasn't in danger

But maybe I misread that - what's your take on the events that proceeded the shooting?

[proteus_lives]

148. Good!

I haven't seen any reports him running away.

Maybe you can send your complaints the nine kids who have lost a parent.

[Skip Intro]

152. Are you fucking kidding me with this thread?! nt

[Blue-Jay]

156. I won't cry any tears for Maurice.

I come from a family of good cops. Democratic-voting cops (mostly). Family members that I worry about about every day.

I have no love for cop-killers.

[Shell Beau]

161. There is no such thing as good cops.

:eyes:

Of course I kid. My brother is a state trooper, former cop. But it is disgusting to see that mentality here tooooooo much.

[gopiscrap]

171. Maybe that mentalitiy is around

because too many on DU have seen, heard or been personally exposed to Nazi like tactics from arrogant power hungry cops who get glorified way too much and who most of the sheep in the US excuxe their bad behaviour just because they're cops

[Shell Beau]

175. Sorry that you must have had a bad experience. Call someone else

when someone has a gun at your head or is breaking in your house or you are mangled up in a car accident. Wouldn't want a Nazi to show up.

[seabeyond]

176. bullshit. i am often calling cops out. just not stupid about it. nt

[Liberation Angel]

158. My Tin foil hat moment: (Manchurian candidate) brainwashed to kill to derail Huckabee in 2012

just sayin;

Taking him out meant no way to get the "lone gunman" to spill the fact that he was brainwashed

[MrSlayer]

169. And there was much rejoicing......

Just taking out the trash.

[varelse]

177. Great

If someone else actually killed the four officers, they're still out there. Also, the accomplice will never be caught :(

[gopiscrap]

180. I love the way everybody proclaims guilt

with out a trial

[Dr. Strange]

186. You mean saying things like...

Police Kill SUSPECTED Cop Killer
or
a lone officer gunned down Maurice Celmmons
or
I don't even think the Seattle cop tried to apprehend him with out harm!

even though the cop hasn't had a trial. Yeah, people are shitty sometimes, huh?

[gopiscrap]

181. Part of this issue is also the decimation of

our mental; health services

[gopiscrap]

182. I forgot to add

also I think his release on the part of Arkansas had to do with the costs of holding him

[gopiscrap]

183. so what if he isn't the one who did it?

[gopiscrap]

185. Also where did this guy get 19,000.00

to bail out?

[gopiscrap]

187. watch there be a huge cover up by the cops..we'll never know the whole story

[seabeyond]

188. and watch the few post solely unsupported posts to stir controversy. nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

189. WOW!

Your idiocy is only eclipsed in it's awesomeness by your willingness to publicly share it.

Oh! I get it now! You are a troll that keeps kicking your own post for some bizarre and pathetic attempt to get attention.

Congrats! You are the very first DU'er that I have selected for the ignore function. Now I need to figure out how to do that.

Cheers!