Until today, I never saw anyone here at DU so strongly support war..really

[xiamiam]

this was my safe haven..the place where I could come to find like minds..critical thinkers..wtf has happened...where are the DU folks?..I want to go where they are

[SammyWinstonJack]

1. K&R

:hug:

[polichick]

2. imo they're supporting a fantasy hero, not necessarily war. nt

[debbierlus]

73. I have not seen ONE of them make the case for the policy, only for the President

When they try, they are reduced to platitudes...

Can't walk away, will all have been a waste...

Obama probably knows things we don't.

I trust the President.

It is a sad day on DU. As far as I am concerned, they are acting no better then the Bush supporters during the invasion of Iraq.

[tekisui]

80. You are spot on.

Aside from the OP by grantcart, all the others are nothing but deflections to Obama's personality and nothing to do with the real debate.

[Individualist]

3. The neolibs are out in force today and tonight.

Every one of them should enlist.

[Skittles]

4. there's more than just bots here, x

plenty more

[xiamiam]

25. there are the $5.00 an hour crew paid to unrec ..its downright scary..nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. Maybe you missed the 2/3 of the posts on the front page bitching about Obama's war policy. n/t

[xiamiam]

8. its the responses within those that have thrown me off..nt

[blm]

32. For SEVEN YEARS most Dems noted that Bush let Afghanistan go to shit while he had his Iraq war

and most here noted that the military sources and treasure being used in Iraq needed to be redirected back at Afghanistan so we could finish that mission and turn it over to UN and Afghani forces.

Did you somehow miss those THOUSANDS of comments?

[xiamiam]

37. things have changed in afghanistan since then...and you know it

a corrupt govt...a bogus election...almost a decade...and a populace who basically considers us the infidel.there was a moment in time..its over...

[blm]

49. It's TIME to narrow the mission to deal with the problems of past neglect and THEN get out in a

way that doesn't collapse Afghanistan and foment civil war.

It was right to attack Bush for not dealing with the REAL problems in Afghanistan for 7 years, and it's RESPONSIBLE for us to now do our best to narrow the mission to fit the Afghani's needs for an eventual turnover to UN and Afghan forces.

How do you propose to deal with their needs in a secure manner that benefits their PEOPLE?

[xiamiam]

62. this is not about the afghani's..no one gives a hoot about people

including our own...much bigger enterprise or there wouldn't be widespread support from people like karl rove and bill kristol, etc

[blm]

69. Those voices trumpeted focus on Iraq war - they're speaking now to avoid a look at their LACK of

concern for Afghanistan throughout Bush's years. Anything they say now is just cover for their criminal neglect.



Question for you - Have you spent time learning about the REAL global terror issue before 9-11 and not just what you heard from corporate media?

[xiamiam]

71. i dont think they are concerned about criminal neglect..no one will be held accountable

i think they are moving ahead with their 'project'...

i dont listen to corporate media much...i read primarily..or frontline, pbs, ..and before the election was stolen in 2000 i paid little attention to politics...watching the supreme court enable a stolen election changed that for me..

[blm]

77. Read the BCCI report from Dec1992 - global terrorism was already an issue, and had it

been allowed to be fully revealed and discussed for the American people, there would never have been a Bush2 OR an event like 9-11 possible.

And I point fingers at Bushes, Dubai and Saudi royals, Jackson Stephens, as well as some powerful Dems who helped them escape the scrutiny needed throughout the 90s.

[spanone]

72. so, you think they had a 'good' government when bu$h* was in office???

[xiamiam]

75. puh-lease..nt

[monmouth]

6. Many are supporting an end to the war, there are procedures to this...n/t

[saracat]

7. Somehow "winning" became more important to them than ideals.

Some hated Bush more than anything he actually did.

[Junkdrawer]

9. Sis Boom Bah

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7088801

[Bluebear]

13. Prescient!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xiamiam]

12. bs

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[L0oniX]

11. There is an effort to subdue any anti troop sentiment here.

I am against the troops. I don't support them. If people would stop signing up they couldn't wage war without a draft. So, am I supposed to have sympathy for those that get killed or wounded over there? There's people die'n here for lack of SPHC because the money goes to war and rich mutha fuckas.

[RufusTFirefly]

14. Obama supports war. So it must be good!!!

[MNDemNY]

15. But Obama said so!!!!!!

[Thickasabrick]

17. I was informed today that a pacifist is an "irrational extremist"....

who knew? I always thought it was just a carryover from my hippie days.

:shrug:

[dana_b]

26. damn that irrational extremist -

Ghandi!

[Sebastian Doyle]

36. Not to mention that other irrational extremist

That long haired hippie that said something like "Blessed are the PEACEmakers"

[dana_b]

42. him too!!

Yeah, I guess "Blessed are those who create bloodshed and havoc" was taken.

[Thickasabrick]

45. My favorite hippie. It infuriates my RW GOP mother when I remind

her of that.

[RufusTFirefly]

46. Not to be confused with irrational exuberance

"Blessed are Ayn Rand and Wall Street"

[AndrewP]

It's scary, isn't it?

[RufusTFirefly]

40. I favor nonviolence over pacifism. There is a difference

Mark Kurlansky explains the distinction in Non-violence: The History of a Dangerous Idea

Nonviolence is not the same thing as pacifism, for which there are many words. Pacifism is treated almost as a psychological condition, It is a state of mind. Pacifism is passive, but nonviolence is active. Pacifism is harmless and therefore easier to accept then nonviolence, which is dangerous. When Jesus Christ said that a victim should turn the other cheek, he was preaching pacifism. But when he said that an enemy should be won over through the power of love, he was preaching nonviolence.

[xiamiam]

41. great concept to ponder..i too would favor non violence..thanks..nt

[eleny]

79. Here at DU?

That's plain nuts.

[Thickasabrick]

89. I know.....I thought this place was safe harbor for us pacifist hippies nt

[Hissyspit]

18. Never used to see so many climate change deniers post here

without getting TS'd either.

[pscot]

21. It's a big tent

Without the clowns, it wouldn't be a circus.

[Buzz Clik]

19. This is not the DU of 24 months ago. It used to be a leftwing cesspool.

Now, it's just a cesspool.

[Warpy]

20. Face it, there's still wide support for the Afghan occupation

and people have bought into the idea of keeping the Taliban out (impossible), stopping opium cultivation (also impossible) and exterminating the last of al Qaeda (remotely possible but likely not desirable).

Plus, a lot of NATO wants that pipeline guarded when it's up and running.

The suggestion that we'll start drawing down troops there in 2011 is the only glimmer of hope out there.

[xiamiam]

22. there has never been wide support here for an afghan occupation..until now...nt

[Warpy]

28. I think it was here, usually voiced as criticism

over the Afghan war being neglected so Stupid and Cheney could go chasing glory in Iraq.

I suppose it was easier to miss voiced that way, but it's always been here.

[Buzz Clik]

38. Exactly. Those who are opposed to all violence under all circumstances misread the mood.

[tammywammy]

64. Exactly n/t

[tekisui]

81. You are going to have to back that up with a poll.

I haven't seen support for it over 47% for a long time.

[NYC Liberal]

23. Me too. I've never seen so many people here

attacking Obama. I miss the old DU where Democrats weren't labeled "cheerleaders" and "worshippers" for supporting Democrats. The DU where people took heed of the line in the rules that says, "please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values."

[xiamiam]

31. the thing is that war is not about political candidates..its a moral issue..and personal

i dont understand why disagreeing with the escalation is turned into attacking obama..there is a lot going on here now that is unfamiliar to me

[NYC Liberal]

47. There is a level of venom around here ALL AROUND

that hasn't been here before. Even on war, there can be honest disagreement and the debate can be respectful but it hasn't been here.

[branders seine]

24. there is a forum here that is nothing but a pep rally

lots of noise and pom poms

[newtothegame]

27. Most DU'ers only cared about the change that "made history."

And as much as those bigots thought that skin color told what's underneath, just like their bigoted counterparts in the 60's, we've seen that a change in skin color doesn't mean a change in heart.

[AndrewP]

29. If Obama loves it, I love it!!!

It's a lot of that bullshit.

[Mari333]

30. Its like posting over there.

even had to remove my sig line. Its like Obama Underground now.


guess I have to find a more progressive forum, I have been here for 7 yrs.

oh well. never thought Id see the day when warmongers were on here either.

Have fun with your war!

[xiamiam]

33. and what would that more progressive site be?..i love du and have learned so much here..but, ....

we dont seem to get as much accomplished as we used to..even within a discussion

[Sebastian Doyle]

34. This isn't just any war.... this is WAR WE CAN BELIEVE IN! ®

[Buzz Clik]

39. That simple, eh?

It must be nice to live in a world free from complicated ideas.

[Sebastian Doyle]

43. The idea here really isn't complicated at all

Namely the idea that the US military should not be used for anything other than the ACTUAL defense of the United States of America.

Even Chimpy could understand that. He willingly chose to ignore it, of course, but it still isn't hard to recognize that reality.

[underpants]

35. I thought DU wasn't a rubber room of flippant screeches

but I must have been wrong

[CJCRANE]

44. You're forgetting that a lot of DUers are/were Clarkies

who had and have a more nuanced take on the Afghan war.

On edit: The Dennis Kucinich contingent is louder these days but I'm sure there are still many former Wesley Clark supporters* who check in here.

*who were the majority (or at least largest minority) on DU at one point.

[tnlefty]

48. Actually they were here prior to the Shock and Disgust

in Iraq, too. I think you arrived after that.

[QC]

50. What we have seen these past two years is a lesson in how personality cultism works.

It has been an education, but a truly scary one, to see otherwise intelligent, dedicated liberals and progressives change their principles in order to align them with those of a personality with whom they feel an unnaturally strong identification. People who for years had supported peace and economic justice are now issuing apologies for war and Wall Street because their idol supports those things. People who opposed Patriot now think it's just dandy. People who supported LGBT equality now shriek about ponies and poutrage.

And so on.

It's vile, but it's how the world works, apparently, even where many self-styled liberals and progressives are concerned.

[kctim]

51. Are you really looking

for "critical thinkers?" Or just wanting like minded cheerlearders who rant about unrealistic options like pulling everything out NOW?

We are in a war and it is extremely naive and dishonest to believe and say we can just pull everything out and everything will just work itself out.

I DO NOT support war, but I do respect President Obama and his ability to make the tough decisions WE elected him to make. I do not blindly follow nor am I one of his cheerleaders and I definetely am not a warmonger as I am called on here.
President Obama wants to end the war. President Obama has seen the intel and his administration has come up with a plan to reach that goal. I don't have to like the plan, but I sure as hell better respect the man and his judgement or consider myself a fool for voting for him.

[xiamiam]

54. i dont care who it is...obama or bush...its wrong..nt

[kctim]

70. Ok

YOU are of the OPINION that this plan is wrong. President Obama believes it is the right course of action.
YOU act on opinion and emotion. President Obama has acted on intelligence, facts and advice.
YOU have offered no realistic solution. President Obama has offered a realistic solution to reach a desired realistic goal.

NOBODY is saying you cannot disagree with the President or criticize his decisions, but saying those of us who trust his judgement actually support war and are warmongers is wrong.

[xiamiam]

78. i never called you warmongers...or any other name

you dont know what i act on or motivates me...
the realistic solution...get out now

[azmouse]

52. So you're ok with DU if we all think like YOU?

:eyes: Get over yourself.

Those of us that like and respect President Obama have a place on a Democratic website.

[xiamiam]

55. like and respect for a personality have nothing to do with the issue of war..

[azmouse]

57. well good for you

Do to Obama what was done to LBJ, and then sit back and enjoy Republican rule for another 30 years.

[xiamiam]

60. might as well try to scare me to death if you cant convince me that this is a good idea..nt

[azmouse]

63. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

You, and those like you, have had their minds made up about President Obama from the beginning... and you are just looking for reasons to tear the man down.

[xiamiam]

65. that is bullshit...i voted for obama...i like obama...i hope for obama

and my country...i just happen to disagree with some of things he is doing

[XemaSab]

53. OMG! People on the left don't march in lockstep?

I never knew! :o

[shanti]

56. exactly

it's sickening. :(

[Jakes Progress]

58. Yeah, baby. It's our war now! nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. Oh, there were people supporting war after 2001

There was even one poster who suggested nuking all the Arab countries. He later became notorious for daring Skinner to tombstone him.

[Echo In Light]

61. K&R ...for some it's anathema to cast lefties/libs as being generally anti-war

Which should offer stark perspective on what often passes for 'left' in this country (which speaks volumes about the two party ruse, and how decades worth of 24/7 propaganda conditions "reality" for millions)

[LiberalAndProud]

66. It isn't support of the war. It isn't.

I haven't seen anyone who is in love with this war. Not one. I want out. I want out now. But we aren't in a position to take the ball and go home. Not safely. Not securely. Not without leaving things far worse than they were when we invaded as preparation for the Iraq attack.

What is done cannot be undone. It matters that President Obama emphasized that we are getting out. We are getting out soon. I'll leave it to people more informed than I to decide the best way to do that.

[Romulox]

68. Just ONE MORE big score, then I'm out. I promise. This time. nt

[Romulox]

67. I've been told "love it or leave it" on this board multiple times.

Also, that one had to "serve" in the military to have an opinion on war (though my latest critic who felt this way apparently served in a peacetime/European deployment! :wow: )

[debbierlus]

74. Welcome to the Free Republic

[yodoobo]

76. I don't think anyone here supports war. They support Obama's judgement

And you should to.

For the first time in 8 years, we have an intelligent and caring leader in the White house who truly is looking out for our best interests.

I trust Obama and I trust his leadership.

[xiamiam]

82. why should i support something i thik is wrong..never going to happen

i felt that speech was written for him and handed to him by the MIC..I heard it from Bush minus the timeline which is a stretch of anyones imagination..I didn't like it when I heard it from Bush but I expected it from him...I felt great disappointment when I heard it from Obama

[mullard12ax7]

87. You're delusional, plenty of people's livihoods depend on war

as they proudly say their loved ones are off to follow the smarter-than-everyone POTUS into heroin land of corruption. Those people fully support war and if you sincerely think they don't then you are just as delusional.

[yodoobo]

88. When I say anyone, I mean anyone here

Thought that was clear.

[otohara]

83. Critical Thinking Sometimes Includes

the opposite of your thoughts.

Besides xiamiam you weren't around DU in the aftermath of 9/11 - and I wish I could access archives back that far, but there was support for invading Afghanistan.
There was NO support for Iraq invasion.

The outrage on DU and other liberal sites is perplexing since POTUS always said during the campaign he'd focus on Afghanistan. As a matter of fact, all but one of the Dem candidates supported finishing the job in Afghanistan.

[xiamiam]

84. we went to afghanistan to get obl..even i supported that...it is now 9 yrs later

a lot has changed..even this year...since obama ran his campaign...for one, we didnt have one in 8 on foodstamps, nor millions of foreclosures and more on the way.we didnt have a corrupt wall street destroying the middle class..and taking big bonuses for it...we didn't have knowledge of the level of corruption of karzai..nor did we have advice from world leaders that this is a bad idea...it was a good idea to get obl and remove al qaeda..then...i have heard reports that there are 100 al queda in afghanistan now...isn't this over kill if that is who we are after?

and dont forget pakistan...in little less than a year and one half we have approximately one half million troops and private contractors, mercenaries, etc in 3 countries surrounding iran...and then we're just going to bring them all home a year and a half later...if i brought you a story so fantastic you would laugh at me...doesn't ring true...logistically impossible...i think...

ok, he did say it during the campaign...i heard it and wished he hadn't said it..but things have changed...to stay on course even if it means the ship is going to go down because a storm is in that direction and water is rushing thru a hole in the cabin below is just plain incomprehensible

there is more to this than i know or understand but my instinct is to get out now...no good will come of this except more boys will enlist because they cant get a job...why are we in the middle east, truthfully?

[ItNerd4life]

85. If people did critical thinking, they would support Obama on this.

It was Bush who screwed it up. Obama is going to fix the problem he left behind.

[mullard12ax7]

86. You really want to know what happened?

This place sold out a long time ago, bought and sold. Repukes are all over this site, stalking and insult people like me and you daily and this place not only allows it to happen but encourages it. I read a long time ago that the war criminals should be let go just to be nice.

Yes, wouldn't that just be nice.