I support Obama on his Afghanistan move

[underpants]

Expecting a force of that size to just up and leave is impractical. I realize as we all do that there will be no parade, there will be no "win" all you "win" in Afghanistan is Kabul anyway, no one has ever "won" there and we won't be the first.

I supported this war when it started (we had to go in--we did) but it was screwed up beyond belief as was the M.O. of that cluster but that is the past, what are we going to do in the future.

One big last push and get out and by saying that that means that it is about to hunting season in Afghanistan. We will unleash the juggernaut of a military that we have built and trained and there are going to be a LOT of dead Taliban types. Unfortunately there will necessarily also be innocents hurt too such is war. I don't mean this to be macho and braggart nor do I mean it to be flippant about lives lost.

McChrystal is like anyone else-he asked for more than he expected and naturally wants more people and more money under his control. The details of HOW we use these forces will be the key. The deliberation has not been exclusive of McChrystal. If there really was an urgency the decision would have been made earlier.

30,000 more troops (on top of the 10,000 that have been moving in there over the last few months). Strikes into Pakistan, maybe draw alQaeda out of Europe and the Philippines and in doing so spotlight where they were and those left, train up the security forces, lots of cash poured in (nation building), and we get out. Speaking of cash it is interesting how we only hear about how me MUST DO this in Afghanistan but the expense is ignored while on health care in this country we only hear HOW MUCH it costs and there is no discussion about whether we MUST DO this now or not.

I don't LIKE it but it is the move to make at this time.

[Taverner]

1. Graveyard of empires is all I gotta say....

[Beetwasher]

2. Only If We're Looking To Conquer And Annex

Which we're not.

[Taverner]

4. Sure about that? Even if it is a small strip on which the pipeline lays on?

[Beetwasher]

11. Nope

Not sure, but neither are you that we are. At one point that may have been the goal but I'm willing to give O the benefit of the doubt on that question. If yr not yr entitled to that opinion.

[Deja Q]

16. For ANY of this argument to have validity, I want

Louis Farrakhan to come out and speak his mind.

8 years ago he was hot-to-trot with this conspiracy theory too.

Since a guy who ain't white is supporting it, and since a guy that all the right-wingers think is a commie socialist Islam terrorist whatever...

Life is never as simple as the lines we like to draw out for it.

[underpants]

3. Yes it is

that is why the Taliban were above to take it over (Kabul anyway) but we will be okay. This is the least of our troubles right now.

[jpak]

5. I agree with you - and you have some fuzz to post this tonight

Obama was handed a fistful of shit from Bush & Cheney and deliberated long and hard before making this decision.

The operative words here are - "getting out".

Something we would not have heard from McCain or Palin in reference to Afghanistan.

:thumbsup:

[Deja Q]

17. I agree! Also, I'd love it if

Michael Moore were president -- what would he REALLY do. And why.

I may not see the speech tonight, but there are valid reasons. When I see the speech I'll let you know. :D

[NYC_SKP]

19. +1 n/t

[NightWatcher]

6. " a LOT of dead Taliban types" I heard there are 100 members left

but when we have 100,000 troops driving through villages burning them down and shooting them full of holes, I'm sure it will do wonders for the Taliban's recruiting efforts.

It just sounds like the old "we had to burn the village to save it" lines we've heard about, read about, and lived through all over again.

[jpak]

7. "100,000 troops driving through villages burning them down and shooting them full of holes"

Is this what Obama ordered them to do?

really?

I call bullshit

[NightWatcher]

9. the military has two jobs. Kill people and Break things

[jpak]

14. Yes - The Puppet Obama's Evil Warmonger War Plan was written by William Calley

who will personally oversee these Evil Obama civilian massacres.

yup!

[underpants]

15. and they are really good at it

they have taken on another mission, on the fly, that they were not trained for but they are doing a fairly good job of it consider the sudden drastic mission change.

[waiting]

10. There are more than 100 Taliban left

And we are not going to get rid of them. We are going to try to get them to stop supporting Al-Qaeda. And we are probably going to offer them a place in the government in order to stop them from their insuregency. It really isn't about the Taliban, it is about Pakistan and nukes and instability in the region.

[underpants]

12. It will be must nastier than that

villages won't be the target-the mountains will and that means their turf.

It will be nasty and we are going to have some bad numbers (lives) flying at us but this is how it must be done. Obama does take over this war from here on out and he will do a good job.

[waiting]

20. He is pulling out from the rural country and focusing on the cities

[Individualist]

8. I support Feingold's opposition to the occupation.

[NNN0LHI]

13. I admire your grittiness

I too still have faith in President Obama. If and when he realizes this is a lost cause if it comes to that he will do the right thing.

Don

[underpants]

18. .

thanks Don

Jeff

[HipChick]

21. I agree....

[jaysunb]

22. Don't try to make sense around here.

My service in Vietnam didn't require me to think too much about policy or ideology...but I did. And now I see the near same situation repeating itself on a smaller yet deadlier scale.
I could have told both LBJ & Westmoreland back in 66 that the exit was to the left.
The Vietnamese had repelled all comers through out their history...now, so will the Afghani people.

I've watched the past 8 years slide by with nothing constructive happening. It took less than a thousand special forces troops to route and basically destroy the Al Qiada base. Yet, while everyone was focused on Iraq, Afghanistan turned into a quagmire of no end.

Right here at DU many posters observed and reported the handcuffs that were being put on the next administration by Bush/Cheney et al. We knew it was the end result we're confronted w/ today.

Doubling down in Nam didn't work. The end game didn't match reality, and it won't work here.

That being said, it's time to clean up what we can and get the hell out. There are no Afghan leaders to negotiate a withdrawal with, so it's up to the President to redefine this mission and safely back us out of this "empire graveyard."

Good post. :hi:

[underpants]

25. I was looking for 600 to 800 Rangers, roughly a battalion. They never came.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=116&topic_id=13367

BERNTSEN: In the first two or three days of December, I would write a message back to Washington, recommending the insertion of U.S. forces on the ground. I was looking for 600 to 800 Rangers, roughly a battalion. They never came.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Also hunting bin Laden in Tora Bora, then Afghan militia leader, General Mohamed Zahir (ph).

(on camera) Do you have any idea how many American soldiers were at the battle of Tora Bora?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was not more than 50, 60, I think. There was not more than that at that time.

[G_j]

23. well

I've always found your posts thoughtful, and I know you have much integrity from seeing you here over the years.
We've been through a lot.

I very much disagree, but certainly we can all hope for the best possible outcome, considering the choices being made.
I don't support this, and I sure hope the direst predictions do not come true.
It is already dire, so I say direst.
I so hate militarism!
the time must come when we never seek to solve problems through violence.

[underpants]

24. Thank you

:hi:

[tabasco]

26. Me too. Afghanistan = justified. Iraq = unjustified.

A lot of people seem to be unable to differentiate the two.

[havocmom]

27. Yep. Lot of people tripping over realities while grasping for ideology

The realities were created by cheney/bush then left for the next POTUS. Ignoring the realities and jumping when ideology claps its hands would get more troops killed. The last guys out always have it rough, so smooth their way by cleaning house and doing some fixing for the people who live there.

[mmonk]

33. That's the way it appears if one doesn't know the background.

That is what the administration is banking on. This is a bad idea at this time in reasons I plan to lay out soon. If interested in my view, I will let you know when it is posted.

[OneBlueSky]

28. ask the Russians how their Afghanistan move worked out . . .

oh, but we're so much better and wiser than the Russians . . .

(NOT! . . .)

[Postman]

29. Really? Are you enlisting?

[underpants]

32. Already served

and I am too old (42)

US Cav Scout '90-93

[NNN0LHI]

34. Thank you for your service to our country

From the bottom of my heart.

Don

[TexasObserver]

30. Unrecommend. It's a disaster, and going to get much worse.

[tiny elvis]

31. kill! kill! kick their ass and take their gas

i don't mean this to be macho and braggart nor do i mean it to be flippant about lives lost
i'm just saying if we could double up on massacred wedding parties and children's entrails strewn from border to border and beyond,
we are sure to take out some terrorists with them
smoke'em out, train'em up, lots of lovely, lovely cash, no hard feelings, and we get out
i'm feeling good about america

of course, if obama said we're leaving tomorrow i would support that too
wouldn't you?

[cbdo2007]

35. Thanks underpants. Obama is doing the right thing, even if it's the wrong thing.

Its really our only option.

[TornadoTN]

36. We won't be out in three years - and our presence there is guaranteed

Afghanistan has vast wealth of natural resources that we really want to get our hands on. Natural Gas, Iron and Copper ore, and others. Corporate America and the MIC want to make sure we have a presence there to protect their interests and investments, as well as keep a puppet regime propped up that will let them do as they please.

That is what this is about - nothing more.

[L0oniX]

37. STOP JOINING THE MILITARY!