Afghanistan is not Iraq or Vietnam. It might be more like Bosnia....

[joecool65]

Why not compare Afghanistan to Bosnia? Not enough force was used until the end of the war. When enough force was leveraged by NATO forces, the conflict came to a very quick conclusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deliberate_Force

[mmonk]

1. Ask those in history who have done this before.

[joecool65]

4. Military escalation solved the problem in Bosnia.

Why does no one ever mention Bosnia as a model if people keep throwing out Iraq and Vietnam?

[WCGreen]

5. Great point...

[mmonk]

12. Because this is Afghanistan, cemetery of conquerors.

I'm sure there is a vet from the Soviet Union still alive willing to discuss it with you.

[joecool65]

16. Did not bury the British in 1879

Plus, we are not trying to conquer to the nation. Totally different situation for us.

[Winterblues]

27. Bosnia was a war among three real armies not counting the US or Nato forces.

There were uniformed soldiers fighting each other in a conventional conflict. There was a real fear of it spreading to Greece so NATO had to get involved. There was no war happening in Afghanistan until the USA created one and it is with civilians and not uniformed soldiers. There is so much of a difference between the conflicts I can't even list them all.

[NJmaverick]

2. That's a reasonable idea

[G_j]

3. Afghanistan is like no other

lots of folks have found that out through history

[leveymg]

6. BS. In Bosnia we weren't fighting a guerilla war against indigenous forces.

The US and NATO role in the so-called Bosnia war (it was actually fought across parts of Serbia, Hertzegovena, Croatia, and Montenegro) was to selectively engage and destroy major elements of the Serbian military and paramilitaries, and to enforce a UN arms blockade. As we usually do, we wiped out their air assets and bombed command & control bunkers, armored columns, troop emplacements, and supply depots. It was not really a guerrilla or counter-insurgency war, like engaging the Taliban. That explains why US casualties were so low.

[wuushew]

7. Stupid comparision, Serbia is nation state with a conventional army

A comparison with Iraq would have actually been less flawed. -1 point.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. I guess we'll be forced to see if you are right or wrong about this.

[Deep13]

9. The Medians, the Persians, the Seleucids, the Indo-Greeks...

...the Turks, the Mongols, the British and the Soviets.

All tried to conquer Afghanistan. All failed. Only Alexander had any initial success and that failed when his empire was partitioned.

Yes we need to keep out the Taliban and Al Queda. That does not mean it is possible or that wrecking our own country is worth the cost. The USA had a golden opportunity to rid the world of an oppressive, dangerous theocracy in 2001. Looks to me like that window of opportunity has closed.

[leveymg]

10. Are you talking about John Hagee or Jerry Falwell? The USA indeed missed a golden

opportunity to rid the world of an oppressive, dangerous theocracy in 2001. Shame about Florida.

Actually, I admire your historical perspective, and agree with you.

[Deep13]

24. Yeah, that too.

:(

[joecool65]

20. The Mongols never conquered what is today Afghanistan?

Really? NO ONE ever did? Hmmmm, maybe you should go back in time and tell the Mongols they did not conquer what is Afghanistan.

[Deep13]

23. Doubled checked: ...

Ghengis had it for awhile. So he is in the "initial success" catagory like Alexander.

[eleny]

11. You're banking on a quick conclusion?

Sounds like you didn't read Secy Gates' statement of this morning. If not, here's the thread - read it and weep.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7136290#7136688

[western mass]

13. No, Afghanistan '09 is like Afghanistan '79

You remember, that little war that happened a couple decades ago?

[western mass]

14. No, Afghanistan '09 is like Afghanistan '79

You remember, that little war that happened a couple decades ago?

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

15. Afghanistan = Afghanistan, Nothing Else

Read some history and it will explain itself pretty quickly. The last time I checked, Bosnia had not earned the nickname "Graveyard of Empires".

[JVS]

17. That's ridiculous.

Bosnia was a conflict between a centralized Bosnian government representing one ethnicity, vs a Serb rebel government with ties to the Serbian national government on the other side. Both sides had clear lines of division and centralized command structure.

[joecool65]

18. wrong!

The war in Bosnia was fought between many different sides. It was not just a simplistic one side v. another conflict.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

[MattBaggins]

21. Wrong back at ya

The Bosnian war, while having varying parties with varying interests, was at it's core a two sided fight and therefor one that could be solved with the dayton accords once the aggressors were shown that we were serious in opposing them.

Afghanistan would appear to be a melting pot of sides many of which don't really care.

[joecool65]

25. When more than two sides with different aims fight each other...

...that is a two-sided conflict? Please. Just admit you are wrong.

[MattBaggins]

28. At least from our vantage point

the Serbs were the aggressors and needed to be stopped. The two sides were those wishing to create a new Yugoslavia and gain control of the region; and those opposed to such an idea.

We do not have such sides or motives in Afghanistan. The Balkans had established ethnic groups where as Afghanistan is tribal and a whole different can of worms.

Try being a bit more polite if you wish to be respected here.

[JVS]

26. Oops. I forgot the Croats, who were similar to the Serb side but smaller.

So my error in number clearly overshadows the fact that these sides were organized.

[joecool65]

19. People miss my point

The war in Bosnia came to an end because proper military escalation was finally used in the conflict.


No matter the opinions people have about Iraq, part, not all, of the decrease in violence in Iraq was the troop surge.

If a proper military escalation occurs, it can quickly bring a conflict to an end.
We never used the proper military force in Afghanistan for a myriad of reasons.

[RetroLounge]

22. Wrong again

But keep repeating yourself...

RL