a call for DUers who support president Obama's Afghanistan plan...

[mike_c]

...to describe their efforts to participate. Will you be enlisting? If you're too old to enlist or otherwise unacceptable to the military, will you be trying to join the civilian effort in Afghanistan? If you've already served in the military, but are qualified to re-enlist, when will you be doing so?

If you're a parent, will you be urging your children to join the military to help with the important work of empire that needs to be done in Afganistan? Will you be volunteering to help support the effort some other way, such as sending additional money to the Pentagon? The nation's treasury is straining, folks!

Let this be a thread in which all DU supporters of the president can describe the sacrifices they intend in support of the war in Afghanistan, so the rest of us can thank them for their service to America!

I'll start, but I'm actually implacably opposed to the war so I'll be looking for opportunities to volunteer support for the antiwar effort, and I'll be volunteering to support alternative candidates for president in 2012, but that's just me. Nonetheless, my partner's son joined the Marines a couple of weeks ago, so like it or not, we'll be sending some cannon fodder as well!

[mike_c]

1. well, I see the unrec'ing for Obama has begun immediately....

Thank you for your service, unrec'ers!

[Dr Robert]

5. the unrecs have nothing to do with Obama. This thread is just unworthy of being read.

[BeHereNow]

9. I'll decide what is worthy of my reading, thank you very much. n/t

BHN

[Dr Robert]

16. you probably specifically read threads with subzero recs, so you can find people of like mind

birds of a feather flock together

[BeHereNow]

26. Actually, I focus on threads with posters who acutally know the history behind

the situation.

Perhaps you should try learning something so you can participate
in a meaningful way?

BHN

[Dr Robert]

36. I just learned to pay you no mind. How's that?

[BeHereNow]

49. SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! IMAGINE THAT!

I know you can't be bothered with learning anything.
So, I am thankful for your decision to "pay me no mind"

The willfully ignorant are like a bad case of fleas on DU.

BHN

[Dr Robert]

54. Oh, I'm not ignoring you. That's for wimps. I just realize that you and me are bound to disagree.

for every insult you fling,
Ram Dass sheds a tear

[Javaman]

131. Odd, yet you still responded.

I guess you need to tell people that you are going topay them no never mine them before you start paying them no never mind?

:shrug:

[mike_c]

134. he's been all over this thread, despite asserting that it wasn't worth reading....

Spreading bile, mostly. Never actually contributing anything other than meanness. I'm still waiting to learn whether he's going to enlist.

Every one of the deletions in the thread are the result of that DUer's provocations. As someone suggested down thread, there is a definite odor of granite pizza about him.

[bvar22]

157. I wonder if he realizes ....

...that every single time he is unable to control the compulsion to respond, he kicks this thread to the top for MORE exposure.

Talk about self-defeating......
Hmmm, "self-defeating"....Hey, NOW we are back on topic...the Escalation of the WAR in Afghanistan!

K&R

On Edit:
That particular poster is singlularly responsible for kicking this thread to the "Top Tens" Page where I found it!
:rofl:

[Javaman]

163. He has gone to the great tombstone pizza in the sky.

big surprise.

[BeHereNow]

164. How we love thee, dear Mods.

For a guy who said the Mike's thread wasn't worth reading,
he sure made a shamble of it.

Fare-thee well, Dr.
We shall not miss you.

BHN

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

92. so true, but pointing it out is ultimately self-defeating....

the DUer is undoubtedly alerting even as I type this-- he seems pretty adept at manipulating the rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

you might want to edit that

"self delete" would be a good option for it

[Dr Robert]

63. it was an honest answer to a dishonest question

[TexasObserver]

74. I know, but once it is gone, why leave a retort?

I thought your post was objectionable and might get deleted, so I offered some advice.

[Dr Robert]

78. my post was made before the other one was removed

otherwise, I couldn't have replied to it.

[TexasObserver]

91. And that post was removed, wasn't it?

You're not helping yourself.

I gave you some good advice. If you choose not to accept it, so be it.

[Dr Robert]

94. I get it. you just thought I should delete it once the initial post was killed.

that seems reasonable.

I'll take that into consideration if something like that occurs again.

[Obamanaut]

23. After reading and deciding for myself, I agree with you. unrec n/t

[laststeamtrain]

41. DUzy!

[Bluebear]

55. what an asscarrot thing to say

[Dr Robert]

62. have you enlisted yet, Bluebear?

[Bluebear]

68. I'm gay, they won't let me & Obama wouldn't stop my being fired. Any more questions?

[Dr Robert]

75. I was just demonstrating a real asscarrot of a remark

haven't you noticed the new attack on supporters of the President is to ask them if they've enlisted?

[Bluebear]

79. No, it's not "supporters of the President". You can support him & not this war.

[mitchum]

143. Why? Is it offensive to chickenhawk motherfuckers and you take it personally?

[lpbk2713]

7. I gave it a plus but it still showed negative.

Best of luck to the Young Marine. :thumbsup:

[mike_c]

thank you....

:hug:

[TexasObserver]

37. When you do that, you assure yourself Unrecommends.

If you want people to discuss your topic, stick to your topic.

I agree with your OP and I recommended this thread, but I can assure you that you're only hurting your thread when you whine about Unrecommends in your thread.

[mike_c]

44. oh no, I didn't mean to whine....

I think it's a bit funny actually. And I fully meant my congratulations for those who feel like they've done something worth doing by clicking "u."

[TexasObserver]

48. All I'm saying is at first sight of such a post, many Unrecommend.

When you argue a point in making an OP, if you jump back in and raise a side issue, such as the unrecommends, you distract from your message and you give people something extraneous as a reason to attack the thread.

[A HERETIC I AM]

82. Typical. Give the thread two minutes and then complain that one person has ..

entered a vote that this thread does not constitute "greatest" status.

Ridiculous.

FWIW, it wasn't me, but I'm adding my unrec because this thread is anything BUT great.

[mike_c]

88. nah, see my comments on that above....

I wasn't complaining so much as pointing out the bankruptcy of using "unrec" in liu of actual service of some sort. I think it's a bit funny.

You are more than welcome to express your opinions in any way you like. Thanks for responding.

[A HERETIC I AM]

115. Mike, the fact is, the FIRST response to your own thread was by you...

complaining, only 2 minutes after you hit "post message" that your thread got an unrecommend.

"I wasn't complaining so much as pointing out the bankruptcy of using "unrec" in liu of actual service of some sort. ."


Are you shitting me? Do you honestly expect your fellow DU'rs to actually enlist (or perhaps consider it) before they consider a simple vote on whether or not your thread deserves placement on the "greatest threads" page? Certainly you don't hold yourself in such high regard. That would be arrogant in the utmost, wouldn't it?

[mike_c]

125. I think we're talking at cross purposes here....

I mean, I'll be the first to cop to an arrogant streak on occasion, but I don't think I'm THAT arrogant! I think you're inferring motives that I don't have, from actions that I didn't realize presented evidence of such motives (but which evidently do-- others have pointed it out, too). My apologies for creating the wrong impression.

[A HERETIC I AM]

126. Fair enough. No harm, no foul.

:toast:

[Neecy]

2. What surprises me

Is that the president didn't call for a single bit of sacrifice from anyone last night except from our service members and their families.

Why didn't he ask patriotic Americans to enlist, to enable those who have had repeated deployments to come home and try to rebuild their lives?

Why didn't he call for a war tax to pay for this?

It would be interesting to see, if he HAD included a plug for enlisting, how many of the Pom-Pom'ers would have run down to their recruiting station. Maybe a couple.

[EFerrari]

8. Shades of The Prime of Miss Jean Brody.

[leftstreet]

17. That's an interesting point

You'd figure he's still got enough political capital with the general populace to make those suggestions.

Interesting!

(Alas, probably a room full of highly paid pollsters somewhere who knew those ideas would hurt his numbers.)

[chill_wind]

93. I'd like to underscore that point, too. It's a good one.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

106. Probably because the U.S. is meeting its enlistment goals.

[Dr Robert]

3. you FAIL at DU

somehow, I doubt your partner would appreciate you referring to their son as cannon fodder.

[EFerrari]

11. Who died and made you Skinner?

[Dr Robert]

14. Who died and made you Obama?

[EFerrari]

34. That doesn't even make sense.

[BeHereNow]

42. And you expected it to?

Read the rest of the contributions on this thread...
Where have we seen this before?
BHN

[Dr Robert]

43. I'm sure you think you would be making better decisions than him, don't you?

[BeHereNow]

45. Yes- I believe so.

It appears most of us know more about the background on the situation
than Obama.

If he does know, that makes it even worse.

BHN

[Dr Robert]

57. you're fooling yourself if you think you know more about this than Obama

you keep talking about knowing your History,
but what do you know about the Present?

You don't have access to the information that Obama has, and you never will.

[EFerrari]

47. Has the phrase "informed citizenry" every crossed your path, Doctor?

[Dr Robert]

60. the President is, by definition, the most informed citizen when it comes to Military Affairs

[TwilightGardener]

66. DUers think he's a dupe of the MIC. They're all hip to what's REALLY going on.

:eyes:

[Dr Robert]

70. by the way some of them talk, you'd think that they get the Daily Briefing before Obama does

[EFerrari]

148. Yes, it's too bad more of us aren't anti-intellectual mudslingers.

:)

[frylock]

67. just like bush..

he used to be president, you know.

[Dr Robert]

73. ok, I'll mark you down on the Obama=Bush list

[frylock]

83. didn't you pretty much infer the same?

the President is, by definition, the most informed citizen when it comes to Military Affairs

i've put you on a list as well.

[EFerrari]

136. And what does that mean to you?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Robert]

15. your disrespect is palpable, and your 'reality' is severely distorted

[BeHereNow]

20. And you did NOT read the link I provided.

BHN

[mike_c]

21. dude, she and I have had MANY discussions about that...

...and we're in complete agreement. We're talking about my "life partner," not a business partner. Otherwise known as a significant other. The term cannon fodder has featured in a number of tearful conversations. We have no illusions about what her son is headed for.

[Dr Robert]

30. maybe that's how you should refer to him in all conversations if that's what you truly believe

I still doubt she calls him that, even if you do.

And I doubt that you have ever called him that to his face.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

59. I didnt realize they gave you the keys to DU

after 314 posts.

[arcadian]

161. I hope you aren't a real Doctor.

Please tell me you aren't a real Doctor.

[Buzz Clik]

4. I guess we'll be hearing this at least once per hour until you get bored with it.

I'm in my mid 50s and already served.

Piss off.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

61. Sign up for a contractors position

they will take you especially since you have military experience.

[Buzz Clik]

69. Sure. Why not?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

72. Here you go

http://www.xecompany.com/

[Buzz Clik]

77. Thanks.

I'll send you a postcard.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

85. Kill a few Muslims for me! n/t

:sarcasm: edited to add sarcasm emote because there are more than a few on DU who seem like they want to.

[Buzz Clik]

101. While we're on the subject of stereotyping and being generally hateful...

... can we assume that you'll be blowing up buildings in protest?

You can provide your own ;SARCASM; as you see fit.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

104. Well isnt that what you are essentially supporting? n/t

[Buzz Clik]

107. Just quote my statement of support, and I'll interpret it for you.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

109. A position at Halliburton is waiting for you n/t

[Buzz Clik]

111. What? No quote of my statement of support?

[mike_c]

81. thanks for at least considering it....

No snark. I'm serious. For every supporter that puts their own skin on the line, someone else's kid or spouse will live. Thank you.

[Buzz Clik]

103. Even if I decided it was a great idea to be contractor, it would not be for Blackwater.

I'm a bit amused by the other poster's assumption that opposition to his ideals is the equivalent to moral depravity.

[Kingofalldems]

6. My first and last comment on this--->

He's doing what he promised in the campaign.

[EFerrari]

10. Damn! And nobody told me!

[Individualist]

25. and that makes it all peachy keen.

:crazy:

[grahamhgreen]

56. No, he's expanding the war to Pakistan!

[BeHereNow]

13. Recommended.

Notice how the rah-rah war folks on DU are as reluctant
as the bush-bot young republicans to actually
sign up?

BHN

[Harry Monroe]

150. "Chickenhawkery" knows no bounds.

A Democratic Chickenhawk is as big a hypocrite as a Republican Chickenhawk. "Chickenhawkery" does not discriminate between parties.

[G_j]

18. this should help:

GoArmy.com > Contact the Army > Find a Recruiter

Select the type of Army recruiting office then enter your zip code to find the U.S. Army recruiting office near you. ...
www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp

[mike_c]

29. thank you!

That should help indeed!

[AndrewP]

110. Great link! That should help!

[TwilightGardener]

19. I hope the President's plan works.

And I'll be holding down the household and watching the kiddos if/when my husband deploys, so that he doesn't have to worry. And I will continue to donate to veterans' charities. That's my contribution.

[Cha]

27. Bless your heart and thank him

for his service.

[TwilightGardener]

32. ...

:pals:

[mike_c]

31. laudable contributions....

No snark intended. Best of luck to you.

[TwilightGardener]

50. Thanks. Not something I'm hoping for or looking forward to, mind you, but

it's part of the life we signed on for. edit to add: hope that young Marine stays safe.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. K&R!

[Hepburn]

28. KNR...

...if you support the wars, then go...or at least send one of your children.

[ohheckyeah]

105. Children are just pawns to be pcked up and sent somewhere?

How very progressive.

[Hepburn]

118. Your point? (Assuming you have one.)

:eyes:

[ohheckyeah]

121. the point is obvious

children aren't things to be sent to war contrary to what your comment insinuates. :eyes:

[Hepburn]

159. Then those dead coming back through Dover are...

...not someone's children who have been sent to war?

Get the point yet?

[ohheckyeah]

162. Obviously you don't get the point. n/t

[TexasObserver]

33. Enlist?! Like that's going to happen with keyboard warriors.

In 1968, I believed my country, and I joined the military. I could have stayed in college, but I wanted to go fight communism, because my president said we had to, and he was from Texas.

I was wrong, and when I got out, I fought the war actively.

Both times, I did what I was driven to do by conscience, even when it was misguided in 1968. Those who are war hawks should join the military if they're under 50 years old. The military is so desperate for warm bodies they'll take almost anyone these days - foreigners, drop outs, criminals, middle aged people. This is the military that is supposed to be the world's best, not just the world's most expensive.

[fishnfla]

35. 'alternative candidates for president in 2012'

which ones?

[mike_c]

39. I don't know....

Do you know of any liberals who have declared their candidacy yet? I don't. But suggestions are always welcome!

[Dr Robert]

65. Obama is the Democratic Nominee, and that's that

you could always throw your vote in the dumpster labeled Kucinich, though

[mike_c]

76. you've been all over this thread, disproving your own assertion...

...that it isn't worth reading, so how about telling us when YOU plan to enlist and serve in Afghanistan? Or do you plan to join the civilian contractors? Or will you be sending your children? Have you already done any of those things?

Many thanks for putting your money and effort where your convictions lie, if you have. Otherwise, you'd risk accusation of being full of hot air and little else-- and I'm sure your contributions will amaze us all! Please share!

[fishnfla]

86. Well who'd ya vote for last time?

?

[mike_c]

95. well...

...I feel a bit silly admitting (although I've discussed it before)-- I voted for McKinney in 2008, largely because David Cobb did not run again. I was never under any illusion that she could win, or even garner more than a percent or so of the electorate (I'm in norcal, where the green party is very viable at the local level). But McKinney was unreservedly opposed to Bush's wars and pledged to end them with all dispatch, and she was on the ballet, while many better candidates were not, so I voted for her. I would have preferred to vote for Kucinch, of course, and I voted for him in the primary.

You?

[dionysus]

129. you voted for mckinney and expect to be taken seriously? christ on a cracker

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[mike_c]

132. you can't read beyond the first line of a post but expect to be treated respectfully...?

Now what good did that exchange do? Seriously.

[dionysus]

137. demanding people who seethings differently than you do to enlist is ridiculous.

[mike_c]

145. you really don't get it, do you?

I'm not "demanding people who seethings differently than you do to enlist." I'm asking people who support a war to go fight it rather then sending someone else's children or spouse to suffer in their place. Folks who support war from the comfort of their living room while other people suffer and die make me sick with disgust.

Are you one of those armchair warriors who supports escalating the war in Afghanistan but won't actually get up and go do it? Or work to pay for it? Or otherwise provide genuine material assistance rather than asking others to sacrifice while you do nothing but crow about how much you support the president? If you're not, you have my thanks-- every effort in material assistance by a war supporter relieves someone else of having to do their dirty work. If you are, than you have my contempt.

[dionysus]

156. oh, i more than get it. see, even though i've mentioned in several threads that i'm not even in

favor of this increase, i am capable of understanding how some people think after fucking up afghanistan for 8 years, that america owes it to them to at least attempt to leave them something stable.

and these people would be of all ages and genders. you gonna go up to some 80 year old on the street and scream in his face to enlist? if you would, you're a fucking imbecile.

and the fact that it's certain a bloodbath would happen over there if we suddenly left doesn't bother you. if you can say you don't give a shit about foreign lives, which you obviously don't, go ahead and say it, that's fine. but that doesn't leave you a tiny shred of moral high ground.

and on edit, your approach of sneering and screaming at people isn't going to change anyone's mind on the issue, they'll just see you as some kind of irrational blowhard.

[fishnfla]

141. Voted for Obama, 2012 will be the same

[Wizard777]

38. I'm impressed with Obama's accomplishments after only a year in office.

I would like to see what President Obama and the best military on the face of this earth can accomplish in Afghanistan/Pakistan in 18 months. Together I think they can move every mountain in Afghanistan and Pakistan if need be.

[mike_c]

52. what will you be doing to help?

?

[Wizard777]

120. What ever a 77 year old man can do to help.

The good news is that my back surgery was a success. But after being in traction. I'll never be able to play tug-o-war again. I have way too much empathy for the rope. They were able to split my back wide open and get the lil sponges between my vertebrae without killing me. I'm back to being my former 6' 11". With my collapsing spinal column and a slouch to take weight off my back. I was down to 6' 9". 6' 10" without the slouch.

So what are you going to do to help?

[mike_c]

130. I'm glad you're feeling better....

As I said in the OP, I'm looking for ways to work to end the wars and to replace Obama with a liberal, antiwar candidate. And I'm trying to provide moral support for my SO, who is devastated by her son's decision. Not a big thing in the grand scheme of national events, but it's where we all start.

Best of luck to you!

[Wizard777]

144. But that's just it. What Obama proposed was a war within reason.

They call obama a socialist. But it was Bush & Cheney that was trotting out Trotsky and his never ending revolution and eternal war. Like I said. I'm impressed with his first year in office and considering that Bush ignored and neglected Afghanistan. I think the very least we can do is give Obama 18 months to turn it around. It's not like he's McCain saying we should be in Iraq for 100 years if that's what it takes.

[Harry Monroe]

151. Britain and the USSR both failed in Afghanistan

Next batter up!! Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

[Wizard777]

165. That's Britain and Russia.

We have Britain on our side. Russia was opposed by us through Al Qaida. But if we can sway Russia to our side. Maybe get them to help us find the guy that defeated them. The USA, Britain and Russia will not fail there. I'm confident of that.

[AndyA]

51. My best to your partner's son.

I don't think anyone can truly understand how it feels until they've personally had a family member or loved one overseas serving in this war. I hope he returns home safely and can get on with a normal life after his service.

[mike_c]

53. thank you so much....

:hug: from all of us.

[grahamhgreen]

58. Chickenhawks, all.

[Chan790]

64. I'll buy war bonds and save my tin-cans and go work in the munitions factory.

[ohheckyeah]

71. I find it rather disgusting that people

think children are pawns to be used to make a political point. Are children just mindless creatures to be urged to do that which may be against their own belief system?

[mike_c]

84. that's an excellent point...

...and thanks for making it. I'm assuming that when folks support the war, there is some likelihood that their children do too, but your point should be emphasized-- parents who support the war are ultimately responsible themselves for doing something to help.

[ohheckyeah]

98. I know from experience that children

don't automatically support what their parents do. In fact, it is often quite the opposite.

[mike_c]

100. my own experience certainly corroborates that!

eom

[donheld]

80. k & r

[Cha]

87. "Nation building"? Not according to John Kerry..

<snip>

"I believe that the president defined a narrower mission tonight, not an open-ended nation-building exercise,” he said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091202/pl_politico/30093

From the President's speech..

"But as we end the war in Iraq and transition to Afghan responsibility, we must rebuild our strength here at home. Our prosperity provides a foundation for our power. It pays for our military. It underwrites our diplomacy. It taps the potential of our people, and allows investment in new industry. And it will allow us to compete in this century as successfully as we did in the last. That is why our troop commitment in Afghanistan cannot be open-ended – because the nation that I am most interested in building is our own."

And, you bet I will be helping those soldiers over there just like our org in my town for the soldiers in Iraq.

[mike_c]

90. will you be going to Afghanistan...?

Your response was not entirely clear.

"...you bet I will be helping those soldiers over there...."

But anything you do will be less that someone who opposes the war will have to do to support it, so for that you have my sincere thanks!

[Cha]

112. You obviously don't want to hear anything that is reality so

have fun in your zombie world.

[Tigermoose]

96. Will you be renouncing your U. S. citizenship and moving to England?

Maybe you would like to reinstitute slavery in the South?

I know, I know, this is bullshit. But so is your original post.

[mike_c]

99. ah, "you're either with us or against us...."

America, love it or leave it?

Is that the answer to dissent? When has that ever produced anything but an echo chamber?

What will you be doing to support the work of empire?

[Tigermoose]

102. Let me be clearer.

Our country was created by an armed revolt - war.
We maintained this country and rejected slavery throuch a civil war.

If you renounce war in all its forms, then you must renounce your ability to participate as a U. S. citizen. You want all the benefits of living in a society without frankly realizing that society unfortunately is built and maintained by many factors - one of which is war.

At least a Christian Anarchist position such as Tolstoy held would be consistent.

[mike_c]

127. thanks for clarifying-- now it's my turn....

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm "renouncing war in all its forms." I certainly did not mean to.

By the same token, I want to unambiguously renounce the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan as unnecessary, unjust, and imperialist. I'm not a pacifist in the complete sense-- in fact, I can rise to violence myself if necessary. I do not shrink from conflict.

I am opposed to POLITICAL war, to aggressive war, to war as an instrument of foreign policy. War is a terrible force-- it should not be invoked lightly, for profit, or for some other personal gain. I see the war in Afghanistan as a singularly unjust war-- and that's the sort that I renounce.

[normrx7]

97. Obama's war plan

Don't worry, the War Tax is coming.

[Nikki Stone1]

108. When the GOP supported killing, we asked them why they or their children weren't over there.

Same questions apply here.

K&R

[jgraz]

149. But... but... it's TOTALLY different now!

I mean... have you seen Obama with his shirt off?? {swoon}

[Nikki Stone1]

153. No, but I can provide you with a totally gratuitous photo.

Oops, wrong one.

[jgraz]

154. Is that first picture McChrystal and Petraeus?

If so, our Afghanistan strategy suddenly makes a lot more sense.

[ohheckyeah]

113. I think this whole argument that not just you

but many others have been using concerning the Afghanistan plan is rather disingenuous. The argument suggests that a level of activism is required far beyond that of other important issues. Must I choose abortion to prove my support for safe and legal abortions? Should I insist a daughter get an abortion whether or not she wants her child just to prove MY stand on abortion? Must I enter into a homosexual relationship to prove my support for gay rights? Must I send money to every anti-death penalty group to prove I don't support the death penalty? Just who gets to decide what level of activism is required to prove one's support for an issue?

I personally don't think shaming people is the way to engage in adult discussions. Shame and guilt are manipulation tactics and I don't like manipulation. I personally don't like the Afghanistan plan but I would seek to understand why others do support it rather than trying to shame and guilt them into seeing things my way.

[cliffordu]

114. I'll be working with the homeless veterans in some capacity or other.

And maybe at the VA hospital for a month or two a year.

[harun]

119. Thank you for being the only poster to answer the question.

[cliffordu]

122. No problem. Those men and women are my brothers and sisters.

[proteus_lives]

116. So, you do call your partner's son "cannon fodder" to his face?

[mike_c]

123. no, although he knows exactly how we feel...

He's her son-- we don't disrespect him at all. My calling him cannon fodder is a comment about the system that's going to treat him that way. I have nothing but respect for the young man himself.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

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[mike_c]

124. I'm noticing that too....

At least one genuine response though.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

128. Yay, mike-c, calling the "let's you and him fight" crowd on their macho rhetoric

:yourock:

[treestar]

133. I'll join when the freepers join

I used this argument on them many a time, usually in response to their claim I was insulting the troops by failing to appreciate Bush's war.

I don't think it is that simple. It's possible more people die in the long run if we just pull out. This is like people claiming we're not leaving Iraq, when we're pulling out responsibly. This involves more of the "responsibly." In the end, we'll be out, which is not what McWar would have done nor what the right wing would have done.

[mike_c]

135. so how will you share that "responsibility?"

People are going to die for it. The rest of us are going to have to pay for it, in many different ways. Shouldn't the people who support that policy step up and pay first, rather than make the rest of us take their place?

I mentioned my partner's son in the OP-- and I've gotten some flak for it in the thread-- but the truth is that the young man supports the war and wants to fight it, so he enlisted, over his mothers STRONG objections (he's a minor still, so her objections were more than just personal background noise). I respect that, even while disagreeing vehemently with him about the merits of the war itself.

[treestar]

138. I never did appreciate "my son is in the military and therefore you should

support this war" from the freepers, either.

Those who don't fight support with their taxes, whether they like the war or not.

Freepers were gung ho to have the war, so they deserved it. Democrats who think we can't just leave Afghanistan immediately don't. I want Afghanistan ended and I think it will be. I'm not advocating it to go on forever as a Freeper would (or until "victory" as defined by said Freeper).

[Fire1]

140. Hear! Hear!! n/t

[jgraz]

147. So... you're not quite as bad as the freepers and Obama's not quite as bad as Bush

Quite the low bar you're setting, don't you think?

[quiller4]

139. We'll be supporting our nephew who re-enlisted. We are childless

senior citizens so enlisting isn't something we could do. I'm strongly opposed to the war in Iraq but have a very different view of the war in Afghanistan which was authorized by Congress and the UN.

[Odin2005]

142. Oh, this fallacy, again.

:eyes:

[jgraz]

146. Once again, you and Dick Cheney find yourselves on the same side of an argument

Shouldn't that tell you something?

[dionysus]

160. cheney never was for doing anything other than iraq, so that's a fail

[old mark]

152. I support Obama, think he is doing a great job despite assholes like the OP

who seem bent on making sure the Dems lose whatever good things we may have gained in the lase few elections.
Oh, yeah, fuckhead - I am a veteran, vietnam-era babykiller, so I've already been spit on by trash such as you.

mark

[AVID]

155. "cannon fodder" with thanks like that, i'll do my service without regard to your cuddly chat room

But, thanks for your thoughts.

:hug:

[XemaSab]

158. Hi Mike

Yesterday I went online and found a terrific job with the army in Germany that I will be applying for.

Wish me luck! :)