To Blu Ray, or not to Blu Ray

[CatWoman]

that is the question.

I was at Amazon.com reading reviews of the latest Terminator movie, and quite a few customers were upset that Amazon is offering only the single disc DVD for standard players, with no extras, director's cut, etc.

It seems one has to purchase the Blu Ray version in order to get all the "extras".

The same applies to the latest Star Trek movie. Amazon is selling it single disc for $9.99 (that's also what Terminator, Salvation is selling for as well).

Is it worth it? Are there any other advantages to owning a Blu Ray player, other than being able to have the two disc version that contains extras?

[Taverner]

1. I will when its cheaper

[Rosco T.]

15. Define 'Cheaper'

There were some $99 players on BF, expect to see more before the end of the year.

Picked up 4 Trek movies (2,4,6,8) for $7.99 at Best Buy on BF

www.gohastings.com can get some smoking deals on used/previously viewed Blu's... they have a buy 2, get 1 for $1 right now. Just got a bundle of 12 recent title blues (Star Trek, GI Joe, Transformers 2, Monsters vs Aliens, Cars, etc.. ) for $89, shipped.

[Taverner]

20. < than $200, and can be made region free

[Rosco T.]

28. There are a LOT of good BluPlayers less than 200

'Region Free' is a strange duck in the blu world.. there are only 3 regions (A, B, C) and very few studios bother to use them (mostly Sony/Fox)

here... http://bluray.liesinc.net/ more info.

PAL/NTSC is almost a foreign concept in Blu also.

There IS one fully region free player out there and my mind goes blank on the name, can play A,B,C and DVD regionfree... it's about $225.

[Taverner]

33. OK - when I get the new TV I'll get one

Thanks!

I am glad they are doing away with regions - I watch a lot of Brit, Aussie and shows from elsewhere

[Rosco T.]

39. Heh, you and me both...

I get regular shipments from Amazon.co.uk and ezydvd.com.au All my Doctor Who and Britcoms are R2 or R4... interesting tiblet.. the Doctor Who R1's are NOT the same as the UK versions.. they have had to replace the commentary tracks on a few because of 'music issue' (on one John Barrowman broke out in 'Happy Birthday' to RTD and they had to pull that track because they didn't get the rights cleared over here!!!) Never mind the things you get there you can't get here (points at Oz version of 'Robocop: The Series' and 'Space Rangers')

[Taverner]

46. As well as my current obsession: "Ashes to Ashes"

Gotta love Gene HUNT

Also - for a while it was the only way to see Season 2 of "Life on Mars"

[Rosco T.]

49. yuppers.. love em both..

Just got my box of the second series of Sarah Jane... and a forgotten classic of the 80's "Hot Metal"

[Taverner]

71. That's what I love about LOM and A2A - besides the story of course - the MUSIC!!!

Is the Sarah Jane you're talking about the Sarah Jane chronicles?

[Rosco T.]

72. Yes, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED if you haven't see it. n/m

[Taverner]

75. Really? Is this the same show where she hung out with K-9?

[Rosco T.]

96. no no, all new show...

K9 is in it some, but not a lot, it's... trust me, it's a blind buy if you like the character.

[Taverner]

100. She's OK - My Fave Doc was Baker, but I did like Leela

Although I wonder if that wasn't just adolescent fantasy...I was about 12 when she was on (in the US)

[Cheap_Trick]

79. Love the Gene Genie.....

My ringtone from time to time is Gene yelling "Don't move, you're surrounded by armed bastards!"

[Taverner]

82. I assume with a rising tone and inflection on BASTARDS!

Love that show!

[Touchdown]

83. Ooooh! Goal post moving. Love the tenacity.

:rofl:

[baldguy]

22. By then they'll be pushing the next format - "OPTIMOVISION!!" or some shit

And you'll have to buy a new player for it, too.

[Taverner]

26. GAH! I'm sick of this!

Pretty soon they will change formats with no improvement JUST TO SELL NEW CRAP!!!

[DireStrike]

158. Oh god no

Every time I see a thought like this expressed... just a few short years later, it becomes reality.

Soon we'll all be media pirates, I guess, unless they <CENSORED IN HOPES OF PREVENTING SELF-FULFILLING CYNICAL PROPHECY #2>.

[CatWoman]

118. see

this is why I love DUers :rofl:

the quick wit!! :rofl:

[kentauros]

121. It's called "Emediatainment"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlXwwOTHwco&feature=related

:D

[baldguy]

123. "Planned obsolescence" is another American invention.

[kentauros]

124. and the rest of the world embraced the concept to a 'T'

;)

What we need is a good old-fashioned Electronic Behavior Control System :P

[FiveGoodMen]

2. Well, the picture looks better on Blu-Ray

[DJ13]

3. Do you have an HDTV?

If yes, buy a Blu Ray.

I've seen the players now as cheap as $78 on Black Friday, and I believe WalMart had one in the store the other day for $99.

They have picture quality thats many times better than DVD.

If you dont have an HDTV it wont be worth it.

[lukasahero]

23. Will a blu-ray player make a difference with my non-blu-ray discs?

We're thinking of getting a player for our gift to each other for xmas. We're both big sci-fi and fantasy buffs and have quite a few dvds in our collection already. I was wondering if a blu-ray player would make the movies I already have (not blu-ray) look better?

Of course, I also want to know how much I'm going to have to shell out for the BSG complete series dvd for my husband's xmas gift. :]

[Rosco T.]

36. Yes, if you get one that does upconverting your old DVD's will look somewhat better.. as for BSG..

the whole fracking series...right now the best prices (blu) are $203 at Amazon (MSRP $349). Seems to be the going price, I checked several places (and it's a GREAT set.. but hit www.gohastings.com and see if they still have the blu "The Plan" for $8 used.

[Better Believe It]

74. Blu-ray offers the best quaity and it does make your DVD's look better on HDTV

[lukasahero]

80. Thanks (and thanks to everyone else who answered)

I guess I was really just hoping a blu-ray player would play my old dvds - that's a start. Part of the problem is that we rent a lot of movies and the video stores (don't know about netflix) don't usually have blu-ray discs. I guess if the player will play regular dvds, we can build up our home collection over time.

As for BSG, amazon had the best price I could find so far as well. I'm doubtful there'll be anything better but maybe I can get a discount through Border's rewards or something. (I'll splurge if I have to but I'd rather not... Damn, I got him a hi-def monitor last year for that price, not just 'a couple of dvds'. :))

[Rosco T.]

98. 'just a couple of DVD's....

the BSG set is a 20 disc set on blu.

[lukasahero]

115. I know

that's why I put it in quotes. It just 'feels' small... }(

[Rosco T.]

119. heh, well 'feels' ...

the box is about 1 cubic foot and comes packed with an 11" Cylon figure on top... small it ain't

[comtec]

162. A few details about Bluray from someone in the AV industry

first off each bluray single layer holds 25 GB of data - thats alot, and what you need for full HD (1080P) fora few hours of video. Most BlurRays are dual layer

Next nearly all Blurays on the market worth buying support "BluRay Live" - which means they have a built in web browser and usually support U tube and the rest.

Also every BluRay I saw at Costco also had a NetFlix option where you could DL movies to watch w/o renting a dvd or anything.

I personally have a PS3 - which was the cheapest BluRay player at thetime.

it's awesome. it up scales (DVD to HD) and updates online, web pages, as well as NetFlix FINALLY came out with a way to rent dvd's (like the other players) directly to the PS3.

oh yeah and it plays games, DVDs and CDs (many blu rays dont include the CD laser, and thus you can't listen to music on it)

but that's my 2 cents.

I found a lot of Bluray players that were decent were about 150 +-

One last thing. People talk about everything going online...

Do YOU want to leave your valuable collection in a non-perminant format?

i LIKE my DVD, and now Bluray collection.

I put it in and it plays. No fuss, no muss, easy peasy. (i also stream, etc)

I dont see physical media going away for a long time.
Hell I even have some vcr tapes lying around.

[EOTE]

37. Perhaps a little.

Most Blu-ray players nowadays will act as an upconverting DVD player, so they'll output your DVDs at either 720P or 1080i/P depending on what type of display you have. Of course, you can't get something for nothing, so while the image might appear a bit clearer when upconverted, it's really nothing like actually having HD source material like you'll have with an actual Blu-ray disc.

[Rosco T.]

40. 100% correct. You can't get something for nothing.. but...

you can make what you have look better.

[EOTE]

50. But TVs and projectors have built in scalers too.

My projector has a damned good scaler built in to it. Before I connected my HTPC to my projector, I had one of the better upconverting DVD players connected to it (Oppo DV-980H). Initially I had it set to output 720P and I left it at that because I was satisfied that the image was about as good as it gets for DVD. A few months later, I decided to play around with it a bit and try my projector's internal scaler. So I set the output to 480P so I could compare the image. Believe it or not, I thought the image was noticeably better when set to 480P. Most companies that are serious about image quality will put pretty good scalers in their displays. I'm not really surprised that my once $2500 projector has a better scaler in it than a $200 DVD player.

[Rosco T.]

53. Absolutely correct...

but not everyone has a 2500 projector :)

[EOTE]

60. You can get one now on eBay for around $600.

Depreciation is a bitch. But even on my cheaper Sony CRT, the image was best when I let the TV do the upscaling. I really imagine this to be the case with most TVs although I've only tested a few. I'm sure there are a few source/display combinations which will yield a better picture when using the upconverting player's scaler rather than the TV/projector's, but I think overall much of the hype surrounding upconverting DVD players was an attempt to get a lot more money out of a format that was quickly becoming replaced. I still like to use my Oppo player for movies in my collection which I only have in DVD format, it's really a pretty fantastic player as far as DVD goes. However, I still don't use any of the upconverting features on it.

[Deja Q]

91. The player has built-in DNR and compression artifacting algorithms. Plus, as it's motion video,

you won't notice much difference in real life.

You cannot fake resolution and detail.

They are masked, which means detail is lost. It looks smoother, better in some ways ,but it's not going to be nowhere near as crisp.

It's half-truthed marketing drivel.

Upconversion is a joke too. Same reasons. Take any windows image editor and find any image on the internet. Resize it 300%. You'll see what I mean.

[WildEyedLiberal]

135. BSG looks A LOT better on Blu Ray

Honestly. I have the ENTIRE SERIES sets in DVD and I want to get the blu ray set, and I'm not at all a "keeping up with the Joneses OMG I have to have the latest cool shit" type of person at all. They just look THAT much better on Blu Ray.

[Bluebear]

4. Blue Ray >>>

[CatWoman]

19. smart ass

:P

[Rosco T.]

45. actually this is correct...

RedRay



(not available on BluRay yet) :)

[CatWoman]

55. ....

:rofl:

[Deep13]

30. LOL nt

[TrogL]

5. Do you have a wide-screenTV with 1080p resolution?

If not, don't bother.

Even then, it looks like 3D-TV is coming down the pipe as is 4000p resolution. I doubt these are supported on standard Blu-Ray players.

[EOTE]

21. There is no 4000p resolution, and no 3D standard as of yet.

If you'd like to ensure that your TV will be compatible with any 3D standard in the pipeline, then make sure that you get a TV that has a refresh rate of 120hz or higher. That way, you can display two 24fps signals simultaneously. The next resolution standard to be adopted will be 1440P or 1440x2560. I think you might be thinking of Sony's 4K system when you say 4000P, but that's not consumer grade technology. And even 4k would really be 2160P as the resolution is 2160x4096, the 4K (4096) in this case referring to the number of pixels per line, not the number of lines per image as 720P and 1080P refer to.

[Statistical]

81. Which will be great on your 200"+ screen.

Human eye has a limit on how much resolution it can resolve at certain size and distance.

[Touchdown]

86. That human eye is much more capable than any current TV technology can give.

When a moving picture can match a 22MP Hasselblad digital still camera, then your argument can enter into the debate. 1080p is not nearly as good as reality.

[Statistical]

92. Educate yourself and you will look less foolish.

How close do you sit to your TV?

3 inches (like when viewing a foto) or 7-10 feet (like most people).

Print out a 22mp photo, now downsample that photo to 5mp. Hold them up at a distance of 10 feet and try and tell the difference.

Human eye can't resolve more than a certain resolution at certain distance. On small screens and normal viewing distance even 1080p is little more than marketing.

The relationship between resolution, distance, and screen size is important.

To max out just 1080p at 10ft would require an 82" display. 3000p or 4000p or crazy#p is irrelevant unless you either are sitting much much closer (not recommended by THX standards) or the screen is much much larger.

[Touchdown]

130. Message board comebacks! How, high minded of you!

Of course I can tell a difference between a 22mp shot and a 5mp one. I'm a photographer. It's my business to know that. Besides, to drop that kind of resolution, it would either have to be compressed into a JPEG from RAW, which drops that color from 16 to 8 bit, but also severely cropped down to roughly 1/3 it's original size. At a reasonable distance, a 16x20 poster of say a swimmer, would show degradations in the water splash details.

Now, a shot taken with a new Nikon at 12mp, and a 4 year old one at 6mp using the same optics, would yield a negligible difference to the non-discerning eye. But again, you have to different generations of image sensors to contend with, and each have their idiosyncracies. Between 8 and 10mp, and between 10 and 12 mp, the difference is too small to notice, but between 6 and 12, a fairly close look at a blown up shot would yield detail differences.

I sit at about 7ft from a 65" television. THX certifications are for the current resolutions possible in home theaters to approximate the actual cinematic experience (which is the only goal of certification), so when resolution rises above 1080p (probably not anytime soon), then the recomendations THX will give about distance will change. The key being to eventually fill your peripheral vision with the film experience. Current television resolution, even HD isn't there yet for THX to recommend any closer sitting. This is because at less than 5 feet, articles and lines begin to become visible by the naked eye. THX never certified any 4x3 480 NTSC display, or Laserdisc because the resolution was not good enough to certify as a theater like experience. They only certified LD and then DVD soundtracks. HDTV's introduction allowed them to begin certifying picture quality.

[dysfunctional press]

102. i've got a 60-inch 1080p plasma, and i'm not interested in blu-ray at this time...

dvd's look just fine on my current upscaling player-
and as you point out, 3d is going to be coming out soon, and that will be my next tv purchase- i'll replace my dvd player when there's something that supports 3d.

[elocs]

114. Here is a sight which address the viewing distance for 720p and 1080p:

http://www.thebestplasmatv.com/guides/size-optimal-viewing-distance/

Viewing Distance and 1080p vs. 720p

One important note to make, is that, depending on the viewing distance, you may not see any difference between 720p and 1080p. To explain this better, imagine that you have in front of you two displays of the same size. One has 1080p resolution while the other has 720p. If you sit close enough to get the best detail from the 1080p display you will probably notice the pixels of the 720p display (which ca be very annoying). On the other hand, if you sit far enough to get the best detail from the 720p display, you will no longer see the full detail from the 1080p display (the image will look the same on both). Knowing this might just save you some money when shopping for a plasma TV. If for any reason (e.g. limited budget or space) you settle on a certain plasma TV size, and you realize that your viewing distance is optimal for 720p, then buying an 1080p display will give you no advantage in picture detail. Of course, that is true only if you don’t intend to move your armchair closer every time you watch a 1080p movie.
Size & Viewing Distance for High-Definition Displays

As I said above, in order to determine the correct size based on viewing distance we must also take into consideration the resolution of the display. Below is a table with the recommended viewing distance for each popular plasma TV size. There is of course, one recommended viewing distance for 1080p displays and another one for 720p displays. Since most of us know the viewing distance and need to deduct the best plasma TV size, we can use the recommended distance column and see what size of plasma TV suits us best. There’s a great chance you will not find your exact distance in the table, but that’s not a big deal. Just look for the closest match.

I bought a 50" 720p plasma last spring because from my viewing distance I could not tell the difference from a 1080p and I saved about $300. I have a Blu Ray player and it looks fantastic on my tv.

[Echo In Light]

6. No. I've already gone from Lps to CDs, & back to LPs again!

Well, I hung on to some...had to go to great lengths to track down others.

But I digress ... no, digital disc looks good enough for my peepers ;)

[NYC_SKP]

7. I don't know, but I wish one or the other would just go away already.

Are there players that play both?

If not, it seems bad for the industry if people are holding off buying players.

Or maybe it's good for business for people who chose the wrong one to have to go buy another.

grrrrrrr.

:mad:

[Rosco T.]

11. All Blu Players will play standard DVD's also.

[NYC_SKP]

44. Oh, that's great to know.. Thanks. n/t

[phasma ex machina]

133. The powers that be need to just get on with it and sell downloads.

Instead of desperately clinging on to new old media and players. Who exactly is playing whom? What a racket!

[EOTE]

8. If you have an HD television, it's probably worth it to upgrade.

Especially now with Blu-ray players being so relatively cheap. I've got an HTPC that has a drive which supports Blu-ray as well as HD-DVD and they're both very impressive looking when connected to a decent display. DVD resolution is pretty crummy when compared to true HD. DVD resolution is 480P or 480 by 854 pixels or about 400k pixels. In addition to 480i/p, Blu-ray supports 720P and 1080i/p. 720P is about 900k total pixels while 1080i is about an even million. 1080P is about 2 million. So even if you have a 720P HDTV, you'll be getting more than twice the resolution by upgrading to Blu-ray from DVD. It's VERY noticeable. Also, upconverting DVD players have never impressed me. You simply can't create something out of nothing, and that's what they attempt to do. I'd say it's a good investment to upgrade now so you can start moving your collection over to a format that you'll most likely be upgrading to in due time anyway.

[CatWoman]

25. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

:rofl:

pixels and i/p and p and lions and tigers and bears, oh my!!

:hi:

[Occulus]

38. He's talking about the lines available for the picture

An old-style color CRT television (the kind with the tube inside) has 480 horizontal lines in the displayed image. The 'i' in the 480i resolution he talked about means that the image is interlaced- only half of the lines on the screen are displayed at one time. This is why, if you shake your hand in front of your eyes while watching one, you'll see "ghost" images of your fingers, almost like a strobe. This is caused by the flickering of the screen as it 'turns off' one set of lines and 'turns on' another.

480p is better. That uses all the lines at once, and is called 'progressive scan'. It's still not very high resolution, though.

720p is better yet. This type of display has 720 horizontal lines, and uses them all at once. The result is a crisper image. Of course 1080i and 1080p are the best we currently use. 1080i is what most HD broadcasts use here in the US, although there is 1080p available (often on blu-ray discs).

If you have a HDTV, it will state in the manual the maximum available resolution. Interestingly, most HDTVs have no problem connecting even to a laptop or desktop computer, and displaying the desktop on the TV (like the Commodore 64 computer did back in the day); you just need to figure out how to set it up.

If anyone out there has a relatively new desktop PC and a widescreen HDTV, you might want to consider using it in lieu of your monitor, especially for gaming and going down the YouTube rabbit hole. A 50" desktop is da bomb.

[FarCenter]

85. In simpler terms, you can sit half as far away from a 1080 TV before you see the line structure

So the picture fills up more of your visual field.

Of course, most of your vision is low definition anyway, since the rods and cones are densest only in the fovea of your retina.

[EOTE]

43. I means interlaced and P means progressive.

Interlaced means that a full frame is displayed every 2 fields or half of the image is displayed at once. If you think of an image as being composed of many lines, an interlaced display will first display all of the odd lines, and then display all of the even lines. This happens so fast that it usually appears to the human eye to be a solid image. Progressive displays display all of the lines at once. The main question for you is whether or not you have an HDTV. If you do, it's most likely worth your money to upgrade to Blu-ray. If you don't, or if you find DVD image quality to be sufficient, then I wouldn't bother upgrading merely to get the additional content included in Blu-ray.

[CatWoman]

57. LOL

:)

Thanks for the translation :)

And I don't have HDTV (Not yet, anyway) :(

[EOTE]

70. Then you're probably best waiting a while.

Player prices will continue to drop as well as media. However, if you'd like to get a jump on moving your collection over to the new format, a lot of Blu-ray movies include a DVD copy of the film in the package so you don't need to buy it twice. So if you're thinking of buying a new DVD, check the Blu-ray to see if the DVD is included with it. If it is, it might be a good idea to buy the Blu-ray and just use the included DVD until you actually get your Blu-ray player and HDTV. It might cost a little bit more now, but it will save you money in that you won't need to buy the movie twice.

[Rosco T.]

9. Why is that Amazon's fault?

the studio makes the disc.. not Amazon.

That being said, I find blu superior, better picture, better sound, and better extras possible than on a standard player (on Blu Profile 2.0 players)

[Deep13]

13. Your kidding, right?

The makers make what the vendors want to sell. They do talk to each other, you know.

Anyway, a customer buys it from the vendor, not the factory, so any complaint is properly directed at the vendor who made the sale.

[Rosco T.]

24. Except in this case... you need to do some research before you sound off...

There IS a two-disc version of Terminator: Salvation...

and it's a TARGET EXCLUSIVE.

TARGET.

Not AMAZON.

So bitch at the STUDIO for selling the EXCLUSIVE to TARGET. Not to AMAZON. They can't sell what they CAN'T GET.

(which goes back to my original statement)

[CatWoman]

27. I'm not saying "anything" is "Amazon's" fault

:shrug:

[Rosco T.]

48. Ahhh.. yes you did.

QUOTE

"Your kidding, right? The makers make what the vendors want to sell. They do talk to each other, you know."

You imply that AMAZON asked for the single disc version. TARGET wanted the 2 disc for themselves.. therefore AMAZON had no choice in the matter.

[CatWoman]

um

I didn't say that :shrug:

[Rosco T.]

59. EEEPPPPP!!!!

Mea Cupla, Mea Cupla, Mea Maxi Culpa!!!

I make a booboo!

Redirect to Deep13! (it's a plot by Dr. Forrester I tell ya!)

[CatWoman]

65. LOL!!

Good ole Dr. F!!!!

:)

I sure miss that show.

[Rosco T.]

68. Cinematic Titanic is a good successor.. it's got a lot of the same feel...

http://www.cinematictitanic.com/

[Deep13]

29. So Target just opened their loading bay and there they were.

Wow they must have felt lucky to get an "exclusive." Unless that was the deal the manufacturer and the retailer struck ahead of time.

[Rosco T.]

51. Precisely my point...

TARGET snagged up the exclusive on the 2-disc... AMAZON got left out, so bitching at AMAZON does no good (and I checked the other online sites.. no one else has the 2-disc)

[Deep13]

63. Guess they should have made a better offer.

No one is "bitching" at Amazon. I don't really give a shit about Amazon, Target, Walmart or any of those giant retailers except that I resent what they and others do to our society. None of those people are our friends and none of them have either our best interests or even the best interests as consumers or citizens at heart.

[Rosco T.]

66. The people on Amazon are :)

which is were this started.

[Deep13]

10. DVD already is sharper than human vision.

I think they are turning up the pressure because people are not jumping onto the BR bandwagon.

I'm not switching. DVD was a measurable improvement over VHS. It's sharp, small and will not degrade. I just don't see BR as any real improvement at all. In the end it is merely watching a movie. I don't NEED the movie so I sure as hell don't need all the extra crap. I don't think I have watched most of the bonus stuff that comes on the extra disk anyway. The one thing I like is commentary if it is done well.

Frankly, any wow factor you notice now will just seem normal in six months. Did you fret over the low resolution of VHS when that was first available?

[CatWoman]

31. nope

Did you fret over the low resolution of VHS when that was first available?

:)

However, you couldn't pay me to buy anything in the VHS format :)

It cost a small fortune just to upgrade my collection from VHS to DVD :(

[Deep13]

42. Yeah, and they want us to do it again!

I thought it was worth it when going from tape to DVD. I don't see any compelling reason for the incrimental "improvement" to BR.

[truebrit71]

103. Me either...and yes I have an HDTV...

...simply refuse to re-buy the same shit I re-bought changing from VHS to DVD...

[EOTE]

35. That really depends on where your display is.

Yeah, if your set is 100 feet away from you, it might be difficult to discern the difference in resolution between DVD and Blu-ray. Otherwise, I think the difference is a tad clearer than day and night. DVD has only around 400,000 pixels on screen at any given moment (half that if watching on an interlaced display). My computer's desktop runs at 2560x1600 which is just about 4 million pixels on screen at any given moment, that's 10x the resolution of DVD and believe me, I notice the difference. Blu-ray's max resolution is 1080P or about 2 million pixels (5x that of DVD). Now, while the difference between 720P and 1080P might not be very noticeable except for on large displays (50" and higher), the difference between 480P and 720P is very noticeable, even on smaller sets, so long as you sit less than 15 feet or so from your display. If DVD resolution is sharper than you're capable of seeing, you need to get an eye exam badly.

[Deep13]

47. I never sit that close to the TV . Bad for ones eyes.

Especially in the dark.

Second, yeah I probably should get my prescription updated.

[Touchdown]

97. That's a wives' tale. Parents made that up to get their kids out of the living room.

... so they can make out.

[Touchdown]

94. You need your eyes checked.

I saw a significant difference between anamorphic DVDs and letterboxed Laserdiscs on a 30" 16x9 TV in the late 90s. I notice even the slightest digital artifacting in most DVDs that were mastered by the studios. iTunes/Netflix downloads are even worse. I still remember a camera pan in Roger Rabbit where it moved too quickly down to the red car as I could notice the stop gaps in the 24 frames per second... in a theater.

I and everybody who's watch Blu-Ray with me has noticed the pristine picture quality, realistic color saturation, and serious lack of digital artifacting, making the picture improvement worth the purchase into the format.

I never fretted over VHS. I just never bought into it, because even in the 80s, the picture was always shit!

The last time I went to the Optometrist, he said I have human eyes.

[Statistical]

95. Not only is it not true. Resolution is only half the issue.

DVD has very low bandwidth which creates artifacts.

I never watch any of the "extra crap" and love BD. Much better picture not just resolution, but bitrate (less compression) so you get improved contrast, and more accurate color.

Also BD offers much much better sound.

[Warren DeMontague]

107. "Did you fret over the low resolution of VHS when that was first available?"

Not until I saw something better.

Blu-Ray looks GREAT on my tv.

[grahamhgreen]

146. No, not even! Witha great TV you get much better imaging.

[TCJ70]

12. Get the sting-ray...

...we got the Star Trek sting-ray and it's pretty fantastic.

[Deep13]

14. Sting-ray?

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[TCJ70]

18. We're calling blu-ray's sting-ray's...

...because it's just more fun.

[Touchdown]

99. That's got digital artifacting and 8 bit color resolution. It's also oversaturated with blue cast.

... must be a JPEG.:P

[Occulus]

16. Much higher resolution

Blu-ray video is much crisper than DVD video, and the video stream can contain more information. Also, the discs themselves have a higher storage capacity, meaning that the extras are really extras, and not just deleted scenes and such. You'll have the option in some films- if they're shot this way- of seeing scenes from different angles, for example. Blu-ray discs can also contain digital content intended for PCs, just as DVDs can now, but again, Blu-ray can contain more of it.

If you have a relatively recent PC or laptop, you may be able to connect it to your TV via a DVI or HDMI cable. If you have a desktop PC instead of a laptop, you can buy internal blu-ray drives for your computer that are sometimes hundreds of dollars cheaper than standalone players for TVs. These drives act as a replacement (or additional) internal CD, DVD, and blu-ray drive. With a DVI or HDMI cable, you can use your PC or laptop as the player, and connect your PC to your TV. LiteOn sells BD-ROM drives at a fairly low price at TigerDirect.com. You can also get standalone players for your TV there for about the same price.

If you have the spare cash on hand and an HDTV of some sort, definitely upgrade to a blu-ray player. It's worth the money.

[Andy823]

17. Well...

I broke down last month and went for the HD TV and all the HD channels on Dish network. I also bought a blue ray player and pre ordered the new Star Trek movie, in blue ray, which came right before Thanksgiving. I have to admit Blu Ray has a fantastic picture, and is really better than the normal DVD's, although even with the normal DVD's, that also play on the Blu Ray, the picture is far better than the regular DVD players.

I got a great deal on the Blu Ray player, and Dish network upgraded my older dual receiver to the new HD for free. The Blu Ray discs are more, but they have come down this year from last.

[Johonny]

32. I bought a PS3

in theory it's a game system and a blu ray player. So if you really want to watch blu rays then you have that option. I have never bought a blu ray to watch on the system.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

34. Do you have a 1080p HD TV?

If so they're great and you'll really notice the difference in clarity and depth. They also (or at least mine does) upconvert your regular DVDs to an image quality that will be much clearer on your HD set.

[CatWoman]

54. WELL

The tv in my den is so old, it's not even cable ready.

I had to buy an adapter from Radio Shack just to hook the DVD player up to it.

When that tv goes, however, I'm upgrading to HD :)

Thanks :)

[Rosco T.]

62. Ya know, the next 3 weeks will be prime buying time...

.. and just think, which will use less juice... a big ol tube or a sipping LCD.

[CatWoman]

67. perhaps when I get my tax refund......

:)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

73. You may want to watch for a deal where they combine a blue ray player with a new HD TV purchase

I've seen several stores advertise deals like that over the past year. It's how I ended up with mine as a matter of fact. I bought my daughter a new television when hers died, and they threw in a free Sony blue ray player. Which mom decided to keep for herself. :D

[Cheap_Trick]

41. Star Trek DOES have a 2 disc standard DVD

But I heartily recommend the blu-ray edition.

[Rosco T.]

56. Yes, the BD-LIVE that connects you to NASA is quite neat... n/m

[Cheap_Trick]

77. Sadly, I have a profile 1.1 player.

But it still rocks!

[jesus_of_suburbia]

52. My parents can't tell the difference, but it's a huge difference to me.

The bigger your tv, the bigger the difference.


Also, the resolution on tvs themselves are different. If you have a plasma tv with 1080p resolution and it's 42 inches or bigger, then you will see a huge difference. Otherwise, not so much.

[Rosco T.]

58. Even my wife was blown away...

.. she thought there was no real diff.. .then I stuck in the Blu import of "Starship Troopers" (this was before it was available here) and she sat there with her jaw open the whole movie..

[jesus_of_suburbia]

87. I won't even buy regular dvds anymore when the blu is available.

you probably already know this since you were buying imports years ago, but:

to get cheaper blu-ray's, shop through amazon and wait for the sales (I got tons of blu-ray movies last friday for cheap - Gladiator, Braveheart, X-Men Wolverine and more for 10 dollars each.) And I didn't even have to stand in line in the cold! I'm waiting for deals on Battlestar Galactica on blu (hopefully it will happen before Christmas).

[Rosco T.]

101. www.gohastings.com

has some killer deals and prices on the 'used' discs... thing is, if they over sell, they send NEW ones for the same price.. I got my blu 'used' of Battlestar Galactica: The Plan for $8.64.. and they shipped a new one.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

153. thanks! i'll keep an eye on it.

:toast:

[Romulox]

61. PS3 makes a good Blu Ray player, if you have a gamer in the household. nt

[Rosco T.]

64. Yup, I have a PS3 and a Panasonic player... both are good...

LG is good too, and believe it or not the $148 Vizio gets good marks.

[951-Riverside]

69. *sneeze*ownload it *cough*

[harun]

78. LOL

[fujiyama]

76. I've never been a big fan of extras on DVDs

and usually don't bother watching them or watch them just once - if it's a movie I like a lot. I'm more picky about video and sound quality.

I'll second what others have said. A Blu-Ray is worth considering if you have an HDTV. It may be worth it then. Personally I haven't really had a need to upgrade yet. I have an HDTV but I find there's enough on-demand content on Comcast to keep me satisfied for now. But prices are falling fast. A PS3 is a game system and a Blu-Ray player in one, so if you or anyone else in your home likes video games, that would be a good deal.

Even with an HDTV Blu-Ray's video quality really shines with a larger display. I personally don't think it matters too much if your display is less than 30" or if you're setting really far from the TV.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

84. all I need to know about blu-ray is my home theater geek gf doesn't give a fuck

and she has a home theater worthy of an episode of cribz complete with a 156" screen and a projector that cost $8000, meanwhile her kitchen has a Wal-Mart patio set that cost $99.

[Statistical]

104. Depend on when it was purchased the projector might not support 1080p.

Before HDTV took over many high end projectors were optimized for 480p (DVD resolution). Without new equipment BD would be a waste. Like playing a BD on non-HDTV.

Or it could be she has more money then AV skill. On a well calibrated HD setup (either HDTV or HD projector) the difference is night and day. Also the audio soundstage is far more immersive and realistic. My wife generally doesn't understand AV or why this is good or that is bad. Got here Harry Potter (she likes I don't know why) BD for her Birthday last year and instantly in first 5 minutes she was floored by the difference.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

106. The projector is 1080p

She works in electronics R&D and manufacturing, no lack of skill - just lack of interest.

She just doesn't care, says the world doesn't need another optical media format - she serves everything off a computer and has some sketchy looking satellite box from chinatown that records HD off the satellite directly to her server.

[Statistical]

111. Well that explains it.

Piracy = free
BD = having to actually pay for it.

Most people will chose free over paid any day.

It isn't an issue of not liking the technical aspects of BD (which are superior to HD sat) it is a moral issue of taking other peoples property.

Lots of people steal mp3 online but that doesn't make them superior to CDs. :)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

120. she is paying for the service, just using alternative hardware

The whole setup looks likes something Bruce Willis should be hunched with wire cutters - swearing and sweating profusely, but it is legal because the original smartcard has not been hacked in any way. The decoded satellite stream is MPEG, no need to confine it to a proprietary PVR.

Her attitude is that in a world where the average consumer owns FIVE multimedia devices the world doesn't need a better DVD player it needs universal digital formats that will work on your iPod, blackberry, computer, gaming console and network connected TV.

[Statistical]

122. ever notice sat channel like hbo cost a lot less than sum of dvds

HBO might have what 20 feature length films in a month for $10. = $0.50ea. DVD last time I checked go for slightly more than that and BD even more.

The license is for streaming content not unlimited access to movies you can archive for personal use (to include ripping to ipods, blackberries, computers, gaming console, network connected tv, etc).

So it is piracy. The cost of HBO is far less than the cost of legally purchasing every film that was archived. Justify it however you want it is still piracy.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

126. "time-shifting" is perfectly legal

Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. (aka the betamax decision)

[Deja Q]

88. Not yet. Here's why:

Many movies use older film transfers, or even the standard-def DVDs with DNR applied (e.g. the 6 Star Trek movies worth buying, sans "Trek II" which was properly put into HD format after restoring the original negatives). Knowing that was bad enough, but Paramount isn't alone in using this gross cheat to cut around costs. People are NOT buying DNR'ed standard-def resolution blown up to 1920x1080. They want new transfers from the original elements, restored. Blu-ray is sold as quality. Companies need to deliver or go the frig out of business.

Video (e.g. sitcoms from the 1980s, some drama) is 720x480i resolution. They will look the best they ever possibly could look, unless they put all 24 TV season episodes on one single-layer disc, in which case keeping the standard-def DVDs is the preferred course of action. (9 episodes per 7GB disc, 3 discs per season).

A lot of the packaging has spelling errors so piss-poor... "Firefly"'s turned me off. It's subtle, but for the prices they want, I'm damn well expecting perfection. It's probably done overseas because Americans are clearly unable to use proper English and everyone else can, for less... :eyes:

"Firefly", "Babylon 5", et al, may be filmed in widescreen 35mm, but the visual f/x are still 480i 1.33:1. This means cropping will occur. That also means upsampling will be needed. Anyone who says upconverting standard-def DVD players do any good is on LSD. Upconverting doesn't add detail. It stretches the image and makes it look softer. This is not blu-ray quality.

Don't bother downloading "HD" movies. Blu-ray discs are 25 or 50GB. A download needs to be identical to have the same quality. HD is more than the basic 1920x1080 progressive (not interlaced) resolution. It also means level of compression. With good compression, you won't see artifacting. At 25GB, nobody should! Your downloads will be several hundred megabytes, at best.

Many Blu-ray DVDs also have the same extras the ealier standard-def ones do. The Star Trek 6-pack has a few more, but many were copied right over from the collector editions...

Many companies are being half-assed. No wonder people aren't bothering.

[Rosco T.]

112. er... couple points in there....

"or even the standard-def DVDs with DNR applied (e.g. the 6 Star Trek movies worth buying, sans "Trek II" which was properly put into HD format after restoring the original negatives)"

I just picked up Trek's 2,4,6 and 8... and they all were remastered for HD, and you can tell.

"Video (e.g. sitcoms from the 1980s, some drama) is 720x480i resolution. They will look the best they ever possibly could look"

Partially true, with some big time exceptions...

"The Prisoner" was just released on blu and the picture upgrade is staggering.

"Star Trek:TOS" (back to them again) out on blu and again, the picture quality is amazing, very much cleaned up and improved.

The trick is, was the show shot on FILM vs Video... FILM = HD capable material.

FYI, "The Twilight Zone" is being prepped for blu.

[DainBramaged]

89. Wait a year when Blu-Ray is the same price as regular DVD hardware.

[Gold Metal Flake]

90. I just started watching prices. Here are my requirements.

I want a player that has at least 5.1 analog audio out so I can put that to my old home theater amp.

I want WIFI so I don't have to have a 50 foot Ethernet cable to my wireless modem.

I want it to be Netflix-enabled so I can stream movies for no extra cost with my Netflix account.

Nice picture would help.

Upconverting for my old DVDs.

One that does all of that for a good price is the LG BD390. Just under $250 with Bing cashback from Best Buy, but I am watching the sales. I missed a $199 deal that happened just before I started looking.

To keep up on the sales, I watch the Blu Ray page at the Fat Wallaet forums:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/blu-ray-player/

[omega minimo]

93. Buy Nothing Day or no Buy Nothing Day

[Warren DeMontague]

110. Hmmmm. Sounds like it's "Buy Nothing Week", now.

Maybe you can let the sinners know when they're permitted to purchase once more? :shrug:

[omega minimo]

116. Priorities, Sir DeMonague

On this day, it would not be my first priority to be questioning whether to buy BlueRay or not or to use DU for that purpose.

Some folks feel that having the latest premium technology and all the bells and whistles and being led by the nose by the companies that keep shifting formats, is a priority.

Even today.

[Warren DeMontague]

127. Well, if you want to get technical about it, it's more like being led by the eyeballs.

On the right tv, that 1080p picture can be pretty fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking cool.

But, hey, if you want to be in charge of of what "priorities" DU should be "used" for (alerting the public to the patriarchal moon-splitting agenda of the brutes at NASA? Yes! Propagating Gizmo porn? No, No, Noooooo!) ...well, shit, the OP is a Mod.

Tell her, maybe she can do something about it. :shrug:

[omega minimo]

129. Your second attempt

to project control issues is also a fail.

You are the only one talking about judgement and "being in charge."

Everyone is in charge of their own priorities, aren't they? I speak for my own, not others. The discussion is worthwhile, so that people may make informed, conscious decisions.

I'm sorry if the word and the post were too subtle. Must be the full moon. It's pretty fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking cool tonight.

[Warren DeMontague]

148. And amazingly enough, it's still there.

I agree, very nice.

Of course, appreciating high def tv and high def reality are not mutually exclusive.

[Touchdown]

131. Agreed! I just decided not to buy your browbeating bullshit.

:hi:

[omega minimo]

136. There's no browbeating or bullshit, except yours.

Maybe it hurts your brow from the inside, when you have to think :think:

Funny how the hostile people who don't want to think about this at all (the power of their decisions), accuse others of trying to control them ..... :crazy: EASY OUT!!

[Touchdown]

137. I'm not hostile. I never said you were trying to control people.

I merely am responding to an off topic post meant to demean anyone with an interest in this hobby. The fact that it was written by you doesn't make it any less browbeating, or judgmental. In fact, because it's you, it's only too predictable.

EASY OUT? What about oven cleaners?:shrug:

No matter the cutesy emoticons you have, I'm still not buying anything you have. It's Buy Nothing From (lower case) omega minimo Day.

[omega minimo]

138. Yet you're claiming the post was ""meant to demean anyone with an interest in this hobby."

That's just stupid. It underscores my point about the hostile defensiveness and "easy out" of attacking others instead of thinking about your own actions.

Topics in GD presumably have some political relevance -- the comment I made is relevant to something beyond a mere "hobby" discussion, which would belong in one of the subforums or the Lounge.

You can't possibly assume that that the post was "meant to demean" (it wasn't) and if you do, it's your problem. Your credibility is zero with me as well, "touchdown"

[Touchdown]

139. I don't need a lesson on GD etiquette. You are thread farting.

You are plopping a big, wet turd in the middle of this living room, and hiding behind some arbitrary "rules" you pulled out of your ass.

You are not to decide which topic goes where, and to think you do is self importance to the extreme.

You have very little idea what I do, what actions I take, or how I help in changing this country for the better. To claim that I or anybody else interested in home theaters, film fandom, etc. is presumptuous. You label it corporate slavery because you have no interest in it, so it's easy for you to judge as vapid, useless, and damaging to the "cause". Kind of like straight people saying gays are sinners because they aren't gay, and not going to Hell anyway.

The comment you made has no "relevance" because you are casting judgement on an issue you care nothing about, and know even less about.

You can't "possibly assume" anything about who I am, or what good works I do, but that doesn't stop you from making shit up about my motives, or reactions to obvious bullying.... which IS your problem, and the rest of ours, since we have to put up with your silly ass.

[omega minimo]

140. I didn't claim anything about anyone or cast any judgment

If you actually READ the posts instead of thread vomiting, you would notice that YOU are the one projecting that.

Easy Out.

[Touchdown]

141. Why do you keep bringing up oven cleaners?

I did read your post, and it was a thread fart. It was a dig, because the OP was considering buying "something", which you disapprove of.

Projecting is the act of enlarging a picture by sending an image through focused light to a distant reflective flat surface. Vomiting has also been filmed, and as a result has also been projected.
That is a sentence that has relevance in this thread. Whatever you wrote doesn't.

[omega minimo]

142. Pure projection

"It was a dig, because the OP was considering buying "something", which you disapprove of. "

[Touchdown]

144. Actually... this is pure projection...

[Warren DeMontague]

151. "self importance to the extreme"

If the name change amnesty wasn't over, I would highly recommend that handle to the person you're conversing with.

[bbernardini]

105. I just got rid of over 100 DVDs, so probably not.

I always get DVDs, but never watch them. So I'll probably avoid investing in Blu Ray as long as I can.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

108. Yes, Blu-Rays have far superior image and sound.

If you want to check out samples and screenshot comparisons with regular DVDs, try a site like www.dvdbeaver.com

In fact, here's a Blu-Ray screenshot of "Baraka," a brilliant documentary shot on very high-quality film:

[Warren DeMontague]

109. Hell Yeah. But get a good HDTV first.

'Course, some people don't care.

I'd rather have a cinema quality tv at home than spend $10 a pop at the theater, just like I'm willing to invest in a decent espresso maker rather than spring $5 every time at Starbucks.

YMMV.

[cornermouse]

113. If you don't have a problem with the fact that it will be obsolete

in 5 years or so, go ahead and buy.

[HipChick]

117. I have Blu-Ray, rarely watch the extras

my player can also stream Netflix, and Youtube videos

[Robbins]

125. Blu ray

Untill the day comes when they no longer produce DVD I will stick with DVD.Blu Ray costs more than
DVD.I know full well the shit of them making you get Blu Ray to get the director's cut of Terminator
Salvation and extras.There Is a 2 disk Star Trek DVD special edition with featurettes and Deleted
scenes.

In this economy many like me don't have money for new systems and more expamsive movies.Now from what
I have heard you can play DVDS on Blu-Ray so the DVD collections won't be unplayable In the future.

Now I am really pissed off Warner Brothers did this shit with Terminator.You can get the Director's and
ultimate versions of Watchmen on DVD but no Director's cut and special features of terminator Salvation
on DVD.Most films still have 2 disk Specail edition on DVD.Granted some special features are only on
Blu-Ray

[Shell Beau]

128. We've had BluRay since it came out. It was a gift to my husband

for his birthday. It was over $500. I, myself, wouldn't have paid that for it then or now, BUT we love it and are very happy with it. But now there are upgrades because we bought the first model. The movies are expensive. They are nice, but unless you watch a lot of special effects type movies, it really isn't worth it IMO. I wouldn't trade it now that I have it, but it really isn't necessary. I only buy Blu Ray movies if I think they will matter special effects-wise. OTherwise, I just buy the regular ole movies.

[Touchdown]

143. I kind if disagree. SFX films are fun on BD, but i like the people discs on this.

Gran Torino. Clint Eastwood's face, with all his wrinkles, and his eye expressions, just bring me into the movie. Besides, it was a good film.

I find I've been buying more people films than anything else since I bought Blu-Ray. I'm just enamored by the skin tones, the five o'clock shadows, the poors in the skin, each individual eyelash and the detail in the eyes themselves. The threads on the clothing are also fascinating. It's like watching a moving portrait.

Yeah, I got the Harry Potters, but I have more of...
Milk
Benjamin Button
Blood Diamond
The Departed
The Prestige
The Aviator
Casino (Yeah, I like Scorsese)
In the Valley of Elah
Usual Suspects
Zach and Miri Make A Porno
Frost/Nixon
and other "people" films.

I'll eventually get around to replacing Independence Day and The Matrix, but I'd rather have the new Fight Club instead.

[Shell Beau]

150. We have bought many BluRay movies that would have been

fine if we just bought the regular. I just buy my movies instead of renting them first. We have Walk Hard in Blu Ray, and while I did laugh some in that movie, I could have saved myself $10 by buying the regular movie. We have a lot of Blu Ray movies because my husband thinks we should only buy Blu Ray movies now, but I would rather be picky about the ones I buy.

[Touchdown]

159. Yeah, I got burned on a couple.

Tropic Thunder, Get Smart, and Speed Racer were fun, but I didn't really need to buy them. They're not keepers.

I had the "SFX would be cool on Blu Ray" bug when I first bought it, so Speed Racer was one of my first.:shrug:

[bridgit]

132. We went vertical, the price was good more movies and that works just fine

http://www.consumer.philips.com/c/blu-ray-dvd/1080p-hdmi-divx-ultra-dvp5990_f7/prd/us/

[FreeState]

134. Im skipping Blu-ray - its not going to last in its current form

Everyone was buying the hype that the "war" was between Blu-ray and HDDVD. Blue-ray won, however its going to lose and lose big to digital content delivery (think VOD but with unlimited selection playable on TV's, phones and iPods).

[Touchdown]

145. It won't until 25+mbps downloads are available to 50% of the population.

Current 2 gig *cough* high def *cough* downloads are very poor compared to Blu Ray. Audio dropouts galore, digital artifacting too distracting to watch beyond a 12 minute porno clip, color saturation that is mostly non existent, and skin tones that are washed out and unrealistic. Downloads will have to be capable of 30-40 gig file sizes to compare with Blu Ray picture and sound wise. Our current isp connection speeds make that impossible. Japan, at 50-100mbps, sure. But not here.

[grahamhgreen]

147. Check the Sony PS3, it plays blu-rays and you get the game console.... IF you have a good HDTV,

and yes it is awesome if you have a good eye.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

154. the PS3 is better than most (if not all) standalone blu players.

I bought mine JUST to play movies.

The video games are just a plus.

[L0oniX]

156. I am loving my PS3 with my 1080p 42" screen.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

157. the Ps3 is soooo good.

I have a blu-ray drive on my pc, and it sucks. The PS3 never has issues with new blu-rays.

[chaplainM]

149. Whatever you decide, don't base your decision on

expecting 7.1 channels. Discs with 7.1 are rarer than hen's teeth.

[Rosco T.]

160. 3 out of the 4 Trek movies I got on black friday are 7.1

just saying :)

[chaplainM]

161. Err, umm, uh

Scientists estimate that three out of four hens have teeth. Yeah, that's the ticket.

So, do you have seven speakers in your viewing room, or are you still married?

[Omaha Steve]

152. Our collection is online

We went Blu in July of 08. Do it.

Here is our collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?member=Indian%20Hills%20Theater

[L0oniX]

155. Buy a PS3 and get a great gaming console as well as a Blue Ray player.

It also plays mp3's, mpegs, avi's and a host of other media files. Hell ..it also will display your Facebook.

[VOX]

163. Blu-Ray is Quadraphonic in a sexier disguise.

Humans will need bionic eyes and ears to actually see/hear all those off-the-chart frequencies of sound and light promised by advancing technology.

And as the hardware continually "improves," the actual content is steadily nosing downward.

[Bucky]

164. Welcome to capitalism.

I thought the recession would hold off the switch to Blue Ray by a year or so, but apparently the planned obsolescence is full steam ahead.

[yodoobo]

165. It pisses me off they charge so much more for Blue Ray disks

When the manufacturing cost of both types is virtually the same.