Dodge Charger coming to the rescue of the Alfa Romeo brand? Bet on it!

[divideandconquer]

Fiat CEO says must work hard on Alfa brand: report
Tue Dec 1, 2009 11:50am EST

MILAN (Reuters) - Fiat SpA (FIA.MI) needs to work harder on its Alfa Romeo brand but cannot continue trying to reinvent it, Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne was quoted as saying by magazine Automotive News.
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Marchionne, who is also head of Chrysler CCMLPD.UL where Fiat has a 20 percent stake, said the U.S. car maker had platforms which Alfa Romeo could use.

"Certainly the availability of D and E segment (platforms) in the United States which are capable of being Alfa Romeoized is there. We need to look at the economics of that opportunity," Marchionne told Automotive News.

Marchionne has said he will present Fiat's new strategy following its acquisition of 20 percent of Chrysler in the first quarter of 2010. He announced plans for the U.S. car maker on November 4 in Detroit.

At a presentation to investors in London last week, Marchionne illustrated the expected use and sharing of platforms between Chrysler and Fiat marques.

The slides for the presentation showed that Chrysler platforms could be used for Fiat's large cars, which would include Alfa Romeo.
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<http://www.reuters.com/article/reuterscomService5/idUSTRE5B03GI20091201>

There is only one actual Chrysler car platform today, the Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300/Dodge Challenger. This platform is quite a phenomenon. Simultaneously, America's favorite police car and favorite gangster wheels. This platform is due to be upgraded with a new state of the art lightweight V6 designed under Mercedes and built in Trenton, Michigan. Meanwhile, Fiat has this great new engine head called Multi Air that simultaneously improves emissions, gas mileage, performance and cold weather drivability. So Sergio is going to put these new Fiat wonder heads on advanced Mercedes/Chrysler designed 3.0L V6 engines on top of an improved Mercedes/Chrysler designed rear wheel drive platform and wrap it all up in gorgeous Italian designed sheetmetal and leather. This car can save Alfa Romeo. Wonder if the Carabinieri will get HEMI's?
.

[flvegan]

1. You put a Hemi into a Brera, and I'll be first in line to buy one.

[LeftyMom]

2. I'll be the first to snicker at you when it never leaves the shop.

A car with components from Chrysler AND Fiat? That'd make a Kia look reliable.

[flvegan]

3. No, Fiat's good now.

Fiat leadership is the only reason Ferraris and Alfas don't burst into flames when you put them into first gear now.

[LeftyMom]

5. I'll take your word for that, but Chrysler products are still complete shit.

:shrug:

[flvegan]

7. But with Fiat in charge, the Viper might not burn the shit out of your leg

while you're getting out of it. I have hope for the Fiat oversight of the bastardization of Chrysler/Mercedes.

[LeftyMom]

13. Chrysler really has nowhere to go but up.

Their cars are crap.

You still won't catch me buying one, that's for sure.

[flvegan]

31. Oh, I agree.

My dad (bigger petrolhad than me, believe it or not) said that the single brand of car to never buy was Dodge/Chrysler. And this was a man that cherished his classic Austin Healeys.

Which is why I'd buy the Alfa Brera.

[LeftyMom]

33. FWIW, CR agrees with me on this one.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/05/chrysler-and-fiat-reliability-merger-of-equals.html "In total, Fiat, Chrysler, and Dodge provide similar reliability, and it isn’t good." :rofl:

[divideandconquer]

36. Consumer Reports isn't god

They recommended all these Toyota's with engine sludge, rotting frames and now electronic accelerators going out of control.

[LeftyMom]

38. Of course they're not. But their reliability survey data is very good.

And the reliability survey data is very bad news for Chrysler nameplates. :shrug: I'm still waiting for you to point me at any independent data from a reliable source showing praiseworthy or even acceptable levels of reliability in any recent or current Chrysler model.

[divideandconquer]

46. Who rates Consumer Reports?

What proof do you have that they are very accurate? Self selecting surveys?

<http://www.allpar.com/cr.html>

BTW, even using Consumer Reports questionable stats, there is very little difference nowdays between the worst and the best cars.

JD Power picks Dodge Caravan as the most reliable minivan over a 3 year period and ranked the 2009 Sebring sedan as tied with Altima as best initial quality for midsize cars, ahead of Camry and Accord.

[LeftyMom]

49. JD Power ratings are extremely dodgy, they look at the earliest, most trouble-free period.

Nowhere on planet earth is the Caravan the most reliable anything. Those things are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable, and I've had no less an authority than a Dodge mechanic tell me to never by one.

[flvegan]

43. You have to consider the cars being rated.

I think that data is over several years. The breakdown of the cars would be more important. I mean, if 50% of Fiat responders were talking about the Palio (which is built in China or something) then yeah, it's probably crap. Whereas if it's the Panda (we're not getting) or the 500 (which is what we'll be getting first) is absolutely brilliant, having won more that its share of awards and accolades.

It's like with Chevrolet. The Malibu may be very good, but the Aveo is still just a Daewoo and utter shit.

[LeftyMom]

45. Noted, just pointing out that they said almost exactly what I did.

BTW, remind me to tell you about my little bit of obscure foreign car geekery from this weekend. You'll be proud.

[dysfunctional press]

8. some of them are- but that's true of just about every company.

i've had some great cars that were chryslers. i learned to drive in a 1972 charger se 440 4bbl...it was kinda fast.

[LeftyMom]

11. Well yeah, but that was 1972. Engines ran on leaded gas, Nixon was president,

my Mom was a sophomore in high school. ;) They haven't exactly set the world on fire in the 37 years since. The only really great new idea they had was the minivan, and even then other companies had to come up with safe, non-horrible versions that didn't drive like farm trucks.

[divideandconquer]

14. The Chrysler van is so bad that VW just rebadges it and call it's Routan

:sarcasm:When did you last drive one? 1984?

The Chrysler minivan must obviously be good enough for the company that invented the minivan.

[LeftyMom]

19. VW isn't exactly well regarded for quality these days, either.

And yes, I was reviewing cars when I was three. Reaching the pedals from my car seat was a bit of a feat.

[divideandconquer]

24. VW is such a bad car they just passed Toyota worldwide in car sales

From Leftlane News:
Well ahead of VW’s initial projection of becoming the world’s largest automaker by 2018, it has now officially surpassed Toyota Motor Corp. worldwide in unit production this year.
Over the weekend, German reports put VW Group at 4.4 million units for the first nine months of 2009, where Toyota has manufactured only 4.0 million units. This change is believed to be largely due to the success of government scrappage schemes that boded well with VW models.
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http://www.carversation.com/2009/11/10/vw-now-number-one-automakerfor-now/

[LeftyMom]

30. They're terrible cars.

I almost bought an Audi (VW made) when I got my subie, but no fewer than three current VW owners made me swear I wouldn't buy one.

[dysfunctional press]

41. how many cars have you personally owned in your lifetime?

how many different manufacturers?
what kind of repairs/servicing do you do(or have in the past) for your cars yourself?
:shrug:

[LeftyMom]

44. My family owns a business which depends on cars being reliable and economical to repair.

I pick out a used car roughly once every quarter or two for that business to replace cars that get worn out or wrecked or to compensate for expansion of the business. The business cars are all F/L/M products, because they make the best car for this particular application, excepting one van (Chevy) and a sedan we sold cheaply to a family friend who needed a car (Buick.)

I can do most of my routine maintenance and basic repairs myself, but I generally don't have time (as a single parent it's more trouble and expense than it's worth to find childcare so I can climb under my car, especially since I'm not allowed to do so where I live and would have to drive the car to the family's abode first and use their driveway) and since we have an account with our mechanic I generally just drop the car off when needed.

[divideandconquer]

47. I've personally found Ford to be by far the worst of American cars

I have a neighbor now who has a 2003 Mazda 6 (Ford Fusion clone) that drives terrible after $3500 in repairs in 3 months and counting. My family has had tremendous success with Chrysler products and that's one reason I'm a supporter. I've personally put 3/4 million miles+ on Chrysler products in 30 years and only have been stranded once ( a waterpump). I have a relative with over 300k miles on their Jeep, a friend with over 400k miles on a Jeep and 3 other relatives with Jeeps well over 125k miles. Many peoples favorite cars they've ever owned are Chryslers like my brothers Magnum HEMI and it looks like the police departments across America are voting Ford out and Dodge Charger in and these guys test cars harder than Consumers Reports ever could.

Chrysler is now lead by the best management team in the car business, give it a year or so and Marchionne will be the best known car executive on the planet, a possible Steve Jobs of the car industry.

[LeftyMom]

48. Depends on what you need.

I find that they tend to suck at small cars, but these are larger fleet cars, and they're essentially bulletproof. If you can't get 350K+ miles out of one with minimal work, you're doing something wrong.

[divideandconquer]

50. Your favorite Fords are going away and are going to be replaced by Mopars

[LeftyMom]

51. Only for cop cars.

In this application nobody uses Chrysler vehicles, it wouldn't be profitable to switch because they're unreliable and costs would be higher.

[divideandconquer]

52. There's already plenty of Caravan taxi cabs and 300 limos

Chrysler will soon dominate the Limo business and take back the taxi business they dominated for decades. The new Ram Heavy duty's with legendary Cummins diesels and HEMI's are arriving at MOPAR showrooms right now and will soon crush Ford's most profitable market. Watch how how Ford loses this profitable market to RAM, it's a harbinger of things to come.

BTW, Ford's smallest car (the Ka!) is really a FIAT!

[LeftyMom]

53. Dude, you're telling me my business. Laughably bad idea, that.

I have a stack of industry magazines full of ads for companies that do limo conversions showing their latest wares, along with articles on legal issues in transportation businesses, common repair needs, etc. They show Town Cars (almost exclusively) Caddies (more and more, but still a small fraction) and the occasional SUV (out of style) but I don't recall EVER having seen a 300 or similar vehicle.

I do see the occasional Chrysler van (usually the Town and Country, almost never the Grand Caravan- the short wheel base Caravan is discontinued) in cab service, but I see a lot more of the other domestic vans and the Japanese imports. If you wanted to say Chrysler is making inroads into that market, you should have gone with the Sprinter- though I'm not sure if they got that in the Daimler split or not- because they have made inroads into the segments that use full-size vans, like airport shuttles and hotel-owned vans and such. That market was previously dominated by Ford, but they haven't really updated the GM version is indistinguishable and neither has had a significant update in nearly two decades.

[flvegan]

21. Okay, that's not true.

The Routan shares a rough drivetrain. The interior, body panels, suspension, etc are all VW spec. It's far from "rebadged"

And "rebadging" to VW isn't terribly impressive to begin with.

[dysfunctional press]

17. i guess that you've never driven a 300?

or a hemi challenger?

or a dodge ram pick-up?

your loss.

btw- they also did pretty good with the k-car.

[LeftyMom]

20. I like reliable cars.

I don't doubt that Chrysler makes a few cars that aren't miserable to drive, but they have serious quality and reliability issues, and I'm not sucker enough to buy one, sorry.

[dysfunctional press]

23. i've only had one chrysler that i had any big problems with...

a dodge caravan- there's a nylon gear in the automatic transmission that almost always eventually fails. but- replacing the transmission wasn't all that costly or difficult.

other than that- i've never had any reliability issues with chryslers. gm products- that's another story completely. the shittiest cars i've ever owned have all been gm products.

[LeftyMom]

27. "Among the 34 brands ranked for 2009, Jeep is 28th, Dodge 30th, and Chrysler 32nd."

-Consumer Reports, summing up Chrysler's terrible results in their reliability data

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/05/chrysler-and-fiat-reliability-merger-of-equals.html

[divideandconquer]

29. About one more repair visit per 5 years.

[LeftyMom]

32. Their best rated brand came in at "Poor." They got outrated by Kia.

Nobody in their right mind would buy a car rated so badly.

[divideandconquer]

35. Kia is a very competitive car, that proves your out of touch with the car market

BTW, Chrysler just had 4 of the least expensive cars that were recommended for safety by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.
http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/11/18/insurance-institute-highway-safety-picks-safest-vehicles/

[LeftyMom]

37. Kia's got better. Granted, they couldn't have got much worse. But if you're getting outclassed by

one of the lesser badges of Cheap Korean Crap, you're not making very good cars.

I'm glad Chrysler's improving their safety ratings (which were never really their biggest problem, anyhow) but my point is that their cars are utterly unreliable, and not superior to the competition in any market segment. Instead of dancing around that, would you care to point out any models which could be reasonably judged superior in their class, or any independent data suggesting that current or recent Chrysler models have any reasonable expectation of reliability?

[dysfunctional press]

39. i don't have a 2009.

i only know what my own experience has been with a number of chrysler products that i have owned.

[LeftyMom]

40. That's hardly the first year for the data to look like that.

Chrysler's been doing badly for some time. Your experience may just be atypical, the data certainly suggest that.

[dysfunctional press]

42. other than the minivan tranny thing...i can't think of any unusual/major problems...

that anyone in our family has had with their chryslers.

what would you say specifically then is the biggest single problem they have, mechanically- in terms of reliability?

[divideandconquer]

4. Is that some sort of slur? Chrysler and Fiat have built some of the greatest cars ever built

Watch the Barret Jackson auction and compare what Alfa Romeos and Chrysler products bring compared to any Japanese cars.

[LeftyMom]

6. Fiat had a lonstanding reputation for making unreliable crap.

flvegan says that's changed, and since he's the biggest car dork I know (which is saying something) I'll take his word for that one. But Chrysler hasn't made anything worth buying in a very long time- honestly I'm thinking about it and I can't think of any one model that was more reliable or arguably better than the competition in any significant way that they've sold in my lifetime.

[divideandconquer]

12. Jeeps are the best actual off road SUV's, Hemis are very fast, Rams are tough

The Viper has won many races and so have humble Neons . Richard Petty became "the King" driving a Chrysler product. The hottest cougar in my neighborhood drives a Dodge Challenger when she's not on her Harley. I 've had plenty of Mopars and had better results than many Toyota fanboys.

[LeftyMom]

15. Did you seriously just say something positive about the Neon?

My persistent couchsurfer/quasi-roomie has one, and I had the misfortune to borrow it a few times between wrecking my Saturn and buying my Subaru, and it's the loudest, most underpowered, scary-to-drive piece of crap I've ever had the misfortune of driving. It bounces over every little crack and bump like it's a go cart on a rutted dirt road.

In a decent car company, everybody who was involved in that piece of crap would have been subject to firing, if not summary execution. IT IS A DANGEROUSLY SHODDY PIECE OF CRAP.

[divideandconquer]

25. "Car of the Month: 446,000 Mile Dodge Neon R/T"

Car of the Month: 446,000 Mile Dodge Neon R/T
<http://www.allpar.com/cotm/2009/neon.html>

[LeftyMom]

28. There's on in my driveway right now (the roomie borrowed my Subie once again to avoid driving it.)

It is the absolute nadir of modern automobile manufacture. It is only slightly more pleasant to ride in or drive than say, an old Yugo or one of those 3 cyl Metros. You can tell me it's a great car all you want, but I know for a fact it's a piece of shit and that nothing on one will work long term, because the evidence is about 20 feet away at the moment.

By comparison my Subaru, which is one year older and has many more miles, drives like new.

[old mark]

26. So did Chrysler - a marriage not made in heaven.

Of course, the MOST unreliable car I ever owned was my '99 Passat - sold for scrap 4 months ago. My last VW in life. Real garbage.(And I have owned 3 Fiats)

mark

[JVS]

9. LOL!

[Gold Metal Flake]

10. This one?

The R/T Is ok...


But I prefer the older concept:

A little touch-up on that front end and you got sumptin'.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. I love the new(ish) Alfa 159

Would've bought one when I was living in England, if I'd had the money.

[divideandconquer]

22. This could be the new top of the line Alfa, just change the grille

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. No. Just... no.

That would be wrong.

[A HERETIC I AM]

18. Speaking of the Caribinieri, did you see where the Polizia crashed one of their Lambos"?

I hate it when that happens.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/6700068/Italian-police-Lamborghini-Gallardo-written-off-in-crash-with-Seat.html