Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What ever happened to Michigan, Ohio, & Pennsylvania?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 10:56 AM
Original message
What ever happened to Michigan, Ohio, & Pennsylvania?
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 11:25 AM by SoCalDem
Their formerly thriving economies got stolen right out from under them.

They used to have a three-pronged economy:
1> heavy industry
2> tourism
3> agriculture

Now they have very little of any of those three, and they were all inter-dependent.

The middle class guy worked in the factory with union wages & full benefits.
His family could afford to send their kids to summer camps that once dotted the countryside..these were middle class kids, whose family could afford to send them to camp for weeks at a time. The "rich-kids" had their camps too, but there were a LOT of not-rich kids who went to camp too.

These same families often had a fishing boat, and many had a "cabin on the lake" somewhere. It was probably a pretty dismal little place, but it was theirs, and it was a haven for them in the summer time.

Before A/C was everywhere, Mom & the kids often were dispatched to "the lake" during the hot summer, and Dads worked in offices with A/C or at a place that was hot year round (so they probably did not notice the extra degrees)..Dads drove "out" on the weekends, or "Batched" it , while the Moms & kids vacationed in the nature areas....and they did it without credit.

Many 50 & 60 year olds from those areas remember how all those little towns all over Michigan & Ohio & Pennsylvania came alive with city families escaping the heat.

The tourism of these states was built on MIDDLE CLASS vacationers, not the 5th Avenue types... those folks went to the Hamptons or to Europe.

Before there was Con Agra & Archer,Daniels,Midland gobbling up all the orchards & farms, or the land being sold off to build suburbs, there was a bustling economy every spring & summer at the orchards, and again in the fall when it was apple season.

Exit heavy industry, and the floors fell out-from-under the other economies as well. People who have sketchy incomes and shaky family-finances, no longer send their kids to camp or take vacations like they used to.

When the lakes are only used for high-cost fishing expeditions & the Great Lakes shore-fronts are "reserved" for the "mansions-only" people, the economy base gets tipped on its axis, and never recovers.

Every motel closed, every restaurant closed, every summer camp closed, every ticky-tacky bait shop closed, causes ripples across that community, and beyond.

It's been happening for a very long time, and it's hit critical mass.

The family whose financial lives get "gutted" at a particular time in their lives, NEVER recovers.. If you have adolescent kids, and you have been saving for their college, and dad loses his job, that savings gets used for rent or house-payments or food, and it never gets "paid back". Add to that, the fact that tuition has doubled & re-doubled, and many kids who might have gone to college before, will now NOT go. College no longer guarantees much, but it used to be a "marker" for many families. It proved that you had "made it". There were many "markers".. odd things like braces & contact lenses for the kids, that summer place, 2 cars, etc.

Markers are being given up, all over the place, and as people retreat from where they are, or where they thought they were... to a place they tried so hard to NOT be, it takes a psychological toll as well as a financial one.

What marked us as a people, was our optimism, and that's fading fast. True, over 3/5 of the population IS employed and seems secure, BUT when they look around and see others around them succumbing, through no "fault" of their own, it's not hard to see why people are not spending like they used to.

Many (most?) of these people who are barely hanging on see a pretty bleak future. Thom Hartmann said something a while back on his radio show that stuck with me. He said that in the next 15 years we will be seeing the largest transferal of "wealth"...ever.. as middle class Boomers transfer their life's worth of wealth...not to their children...but to pharmaceutical corporations, long-term care facilities, health-care insurance corporations, hospitals & doctors. After a lifetime of working, everything they managed to accumulate will be cashed in like casino chips, just to stay alive a little longer. Their children will receive little, if anything from them when they are gone.

Service economies with no safety net, only allow most people to exist day-to-day. There are few careers in these types of jobs. there are "contracts" or "jobs". The transition from career to job came within a lifetime, but the mythology lives on..in books, movies, in popular culture. It's as dead as the Dodo or the Carrier Pigeon, and it will not be returning..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you SoCalDem.
That's exactly "it." Unionized manufacturing jobs built the middle class. People could buy what they made, own their own homes, send their kids to college, and have a decent pension for retirement.

These workers also ensured our freedom as the builders of the Arsenal of Democracy. We beat the fascists and the commies.

This is what made America great. Now, it's survival of the connected and T.S. for the rest.

Thank goodness Wall Street's doing well, though. When push came to shove, the bonuses paid out at Goldman Sachs, alone, were $23 billion. Compare that with the "loans" to GM and Chrysler, $34 billion.

Who's done more for America?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yep.
It's not all bad. Just most of it.
I think some day it'll come back. Perfect location, lots of water, land, transportation and an educated workforce. K/R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I cetainly don't intend to stick around and wait on that. We
have to live in the interim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. That's the fallacy of the whole "re-training" thing..
re-training for WHAT?? for jobs that don't pay enough to pay back the money borrowed for the training? for jobs that are temporary until the next round of re-training?

people need careers...not jobs or short-term contracts., and their bills go on and on and on while they are re-training.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. I recently took a road trip from upstate New York down to Georgia.
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 11:16 AM by hedgehog
I knew how bleak things have looked up here in the Rust Belt for 30 years. In fact, I've been cheered to see some small signs of recovery. What shocked me was seeing all the glitz starting around Columbus, Ohio. Central Kentucky was very strange with developments plopped down seemingly at random out in the middle of farm country, miles from any towns. Where do those people work? I liked the old towns we went through, they seemed pretty solid. It's the new construction that gave me the creeps. Down in Georgia, the plant was located in an old town that's still pretty rural. A lot of the guys who work at the plant have a few acres and some cattle. Their big thing is watching the Georgia bulldogs play and going fishing. Ten miles down the road everything is new money and gated communities.

The new stuff looks shiny, but most of the commercial construction I saw is designed for what, a 10 year life, 15 years? Once the corporation gets its money out of this Holiday Express or that Olive Garden, what's the life expectancy?

Seriously, at times it felt like I was in one of those heavy handed evangelical movies showing people partying on the edge of the abyss. Everyone is running around making money selling each other imported stuff, real estate and crappy microwaved factory food. It has all the substance and staying power of cotton candy.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Population lower then
they are not making any more lakes. The prices get bid up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. and "distress-sales" attract moneyed-vultures.. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. J Immeldt, GE has openly said. "We made a mistake" when we
made the change and turned U.S. into a Service Economy.

"This economy cannot be sustained with only Service Job. Our
Mfg base must be restored to 15-20% of GDP in order sustain
a healthy country."

He made these comments on C. Rose and on C-Span.


I wish others would listen.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Who in the Hell, with ANY intelligence, could not see this coming?
Jesus Fucking Christ I am so sick and tired of the so called educated and best this country has to offer, now suddenly realizing they made a mistake. Worst yet, there are some who keep repeating the same mistakes.

Everyone who has been thrown under the damn bus seen this coming and tried to tell the oh so wise ones what would happen, but no, they were educated and knew so much more. It's the same fucking reason Democratic Leaders scratch their heads after elections, wondering why people would vote against their best interests... Yes, it's coming again.

America's brilliant educated ones should have studied about Easter Island, before they bet the country on cannibalization.

Sorry I blew up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. APOLOGY NOT NECESSARY!!! MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!
I remember when Bush was in office and he was gloating about how many jobs his administration had created......YEAH, BUT THEY WERE ALL SERVICE SECTOR JOBS!!!! WHOO HOOO and how in the HELL are people supposed to be able to support themselves on BURGER KING WAGES????? I saw a lot of those people when I worked for the Denver Department of Social Services.....they were coming in for food stamps, TANF, medicaid, etc...... Yeah, what a great bubble (oops, I'm sorry, did I say bubble? I meant economy) all those brilliant educated ones created!!!! And the worst part is??? NOW I'M ONE OF THE ONES WITH THE "SERVICE SECTOR" JOBS MYSELF!!!!! Not to mention the wonderful experience of going to Cuyahoga County Job & Family Services every 6 months for MY food stamp redetermination!!!!
Kansas, KUDOS TO YA!!!!! Only a blind newborn rat couldn't see all of this shit coming!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. They only plan as far as their own bank accounts
and I think many of them thought the US would run on auto-pilot forever:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. NAFTA, MFN for China is what happened. Both Democratic policies.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. and the exodus of mfg to the deep south.. a quadruple-whammy n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. This President has, if anything, accelerated the neoliberal economic program...
His stimulus and bail outs effect yet another transfer of funds from the poor to the rich. And to top it off, the President wants another job-obliterating free trade deal with South Korea.

The Democrats have abandoned this part of the country to its fate, imo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I'm afraid you are right.. mostly lip-service for 3 decades
I guess they are just waiting for people to die off and quit complaining..or to move..:(

There are a whole lot of 45-64 yr old "former-workers" who are getting sicker ever day..physically and psychologically.

What's not being considered is the fact thet these folks have children who will fill their places in the desperation lines:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Not Democratic policies Both DLC policies. Just as is Rahm's policy to recruit Millionaire
republican lite candidates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Sell-out suck-ups abound in both parties
and they are sadly successful:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Even to the point of Profit over National Security -- MAGNEQUENCH.
Outsourcing US Missile Technology to China

Of course, it's an Indiana company, so, for a friendly few, it's off-topic...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. We lived in Michigan City, Indiana from 1970-1977
and it was starting already..manufacturing was closing up shop, and the prison seemed to be the employer du jour.. Big family-supporting jobs were turning into small part-time jobs or jobs that had people commuting to Chicago. Hammond, Gary, & other in-between towns were already wallowing in unemployment & despair:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Did you know the Putz family?
Mr. Putz worked at the prison. One of their sons was a good friend of mine. His brother, John, was a Marine who died in Vietnam. After his passing, they each held a hurt that would never cease. My friend's parents also died too young. As good a person as exists on the planet, my buddy has gone far...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. No, I don't think I knew them.. the name is not familiar
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 03:35 PM by SoCalDem
There is no such thing as closure when you lose a loved one..especialy when their life is lost for no good reason :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ronald Reagan, George Bush I, Bill Clinton, and George Bush II
and congresses ruled by both parties that were more attracted by the promises of easy money than the stability of making things.

I live in PA, and people wonder why I question democratic leaders as hard as I question GOP leaders. Both have overseen the destruction of what once made my state an economic powerhouse.

One party just believed in doing it faster with more callousness than the other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. The major blow was Reagan to western PA
We are still trying to find our way out of that one :-(.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
16. "You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples"
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 11:39 AM by The2ndWheel
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechnetwork4.html

Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, they became placeless. They don't exist. Just like the rest of the world. Your job can be done anywhere. You can modify your environment to be the same as anywhere. You can go to any grocery store and buy almost anything from everywhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. the middle class will become a thing of the past within a couple of generations
Then there will be the latifundia and the rest of us. Unless there is some kind of peasant uprising, but have you seen the shit the police forces have these days?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. the militarization of the police may not be incidental..but purposefuil
I am afraid that many people will be too numbed and disheartened to do much more than hunker down and hope:( we've been in hunker mode since the 60's :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC