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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:07 PM
Original message
Leaving for Afghanistan...
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 07:08 PM by HipChick
Had a good friend leave Nov 1, another friend let me know today they are leaving Jan....for some of us, its not just Obama-bashing on DU, we have to deal with the reality...and yes, I still support him, cleaning up Bush's pile of shit...flame away
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sorry to hear that anyone is leaving for Afghanistan... Hope they all stay safe! n/t
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C_Lawyer09 Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. It might make you mad or it might make you feel better
But many in Afghanistan, feel they are engaged in a challenging, and opaqe but worthwhile endeavor.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's a lot of the sentiment..
I wish the Obama bashers could understand
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "Obama bashers", is that what headquarters is saying to call the anti-war faction?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. you sound utterly ridiculous.
people disagree with you. that doesn't mean they're programmed or stupid. deal with it. sanely.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Calling someone who disagrees with policy a "basher" is not sane.
Now go eat some cheese.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. why don't you run along and lecture all those calling
Obama supporters war pigs or pom pom wavers, dearie?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I have dearie, and that is not appropriate either. Now a special word for you:
I actually enjoy reading most of what you post here, but for some reason you have chosen to be a class A asshole to me. You have for years.

So I am putting you back on ignore because I guess I am too sensitive for the likes of you, Somehow I picture you at your computer smoking Marlboros and laughing out loud when you upset somebody. I don't know. I never have "met" a person with your intelligence on the internet be quite so caustic and enjoys belittling people. goodbye.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. On ignore or not, I have something to say to you:
you came into this thread and berated someone who's clearly having a hard time with people she/he knows going off to Afghanistan. It was callous as all get out. That's what I responded to. And I barely ever interact with you. I rarely post in your threads.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. I had a good friend of mine just get back. That was her second time there
The first having been back in 2004 when she was 19. I've also had another friend of mine do 3 tours in Iraq, and another of my friends will, I think, be going for her first tour in Afghanistan next year. I still can't figure out if or how the fact that I am concerned about my friends influences my outlook on these operations.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. what do they think?
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 08:21 PM by Liberation Angel
i really feel that the ones who have been should be listened to on this

any perspectives from your friends?
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I haven't asked the one who just got back
My friend who went to Iraq three times is extremely conservative, thinks President Obama is a socialist, and basically thinks we should blast the hell out of everybody over there, I think.
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hardtravelin Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. I leave next Friday
And many of us do believe in the mission. The sooner we can make that country self-sufficient (cleaning up the mess), the sooner everybody cam go home.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. take good care
and come home safely to your family and friends.

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Please keep your head low and come back to us.
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blaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Oh gosh!!
Big hugs and please come home safe and sound. :patriot:
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Agree..
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 07:26 PM by HipChick
it's shit shovelling..it is what it is
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ConnorMarc Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. I Respect Your Service, However

Have you considered the very pertinent and profound single question Friedman posed the other day?

Does anyone have to train the Taliban?
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ConnorMarc Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. I Respect Your Service, However
Have you considered the very pertinent and profound single question Friedman posed the other day?

Does anyone have to train the Taliban?
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hardtravelin Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Good Point...
But nobody has to prove on paper that the Taliban is a viable and independent government. That is what we are now doing. Ive been around the block, and I know that no politician wants a political landmine ("cutting and running") laid at their feet. Reelection and the prospect of accomplishing one's agenda are out of reach to tainted politicians.

If I have to go and do the job so my younger brothers and sisters don't I'm willing to do it. That's how I've always reconciled combat deployments.

You have a good point, and it's not wasted on the guys and girls on the ground.
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ConnorMarc Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Thanks For Being So Responsive
I often wonder what is it about the American people, the American pysche that drives them to war in such a manner as that the mere thought of "defeat" is absolutely unacceptable, even in cases where there is no real option to "win/
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. If you see any Canadians, say hi for me
I have a cousin there serving with the PPCLI (Princess Patricia's Light Infantry).
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hardtravelin Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I will
I went to Ranger School with a couple of PPCLI's. Great guys.
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Travel safe...keep in touch with us here...
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 09:12 PM by gimama
(innernets are accessible in many places over there)& let us know if You need anything while You're there, will Ya?
KNOW You are in our tho'ts(& prayers)& let Your Buddies know WE CARE..about ALL of You.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. God, I teared up when I read this
it makes me so sad that you have to go.

I admire your courage and willingness to fight and die for what you believe is a good cause, helping others..

I really honestly am conflicted about what Obama's plan is an whether it is workable and worth lives and risks like yours...

But that does not diminish my respect for your courageous willingness...

but it also makes me tear up when i see any of our young people (or anyone) going into war, and especially when it is so uncertain a proposition (at least to me).

Be safe and walk with faith in the good...
Let us know how it goes and tell us when you get back...
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. I hope you and everyone else
come home safe and quickly.

:grouphug:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. Keep your head down
and no idiocy awards okay?

As to the mission... I get it why, I just don't think it will work... but that doesn't mean I will call names to those following orders. (And I do hope in my heart to be proven wrong)
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. Good luck, and just come home safe and sound.
We can all argue about the mission then.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good luck to all of you. We are holding on to the hope that after your friend's'
work in Afghanistan our world will be a better place.
I have not given up on Barack either. I will not give up on those who serve either.

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why not join them? Since you support Obama's vision and all.
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 07:19 PM by anonymous171
:shrug:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It's why she voted for him, after all.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. both of you may claim to love peace, but your words and actions
speak otherwise.

may you learn quickly and well.

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. What a lovely thing to say to me after all these years
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 09:16 PM by Bluebear
Thanks awfully.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. you are quite welcome,
and despite your sarcasm, it is a loving thing to wish someone well. My wishes that you will become what you claim to be are genuine. Even if you can't believe that now.

:hi:

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I just didn't know you harbored..
...that feeling of me lo these past six years. be well.
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. I've seen this attributed to JFK
War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today.

Still most of us prefer to put down the objectors.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. We need a SUDDENLY DEPLOYING TO AFGHANISTAN forum
:bounce:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. --
:spray:
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joecool65 Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Good luck!
I hope the best for you!
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. +1
n/t
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. I support and thank you for your service. I do not support you being used...
for the interest of profits for multi national corporations
under the guise of protecting this or any other country.

God bless you and keep you safe.

BHN
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
37. thinking of You, Your Friends, & ALL touched by this..
..OF COURSE You still support him..that's what REAL Friends do..stand by Friends when times are rough. Stay strong & Loving, BE AVAILABLE & ACCEPTING, & stay POSITIVE. You have support HERE, too, when YOU need it.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
40. What a shame. Throw away your life for what? Policy?
Don't tell me you are fighting for freedom and democracy. Save that shit for the stupid masses. I hate it that my taxes are paying for the troops and bombs. You are just getting used. I will defer to people who are much wiser than me.


Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. - Henry Kissinger

Blind obedience to authority is the enemy of the truth. - Albert Einstein

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age. – Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein

3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but you own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin

5. Three relatively positive assessments of patriotism:

A patriot is somebody who protects his country from his government. Or better yet: who has the guts to protect his country from its government. – Piotyr Dirk

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. – Thomas Jefferson


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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. Good luck to him. I know you told him to keep his head down, and come home safe and sound.
:hug:
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