China called. They want their pandas back.

[Stinky The Clown]

Here's the story at face value:

Young panda at Washington Zoo heads to China: report

(AFP) – 6 hours ago

WASHINGTON — One of the biggest stars at the National Zoo in the US capital Washington DC, a US-born giant panda named Tai Shan, will soon be sent to China, the Washington Post reported Friday.

The panda was born in July 2005 to two pandas on loan from China, and Tai Shan's move is part of an agreement with Beijing, according to the Post. Millions of people flocked to the zoo to see the baby panda when he went on display in December 2005. Over the years, fans followed Tai Shan's growth on a "panda cam" on the zoo's website. Washington DC Mayor Adrian Fenty once called Tai Shan the city's most important citizen, and the zoo recently announced that Tai Shan will even appear on a postage stamp.

Tai Shan's parents, a 10-year-old female named Mei Xiang and an 11-year-old male named Tian Tian, are at the National Zoo under loan agreement and as part of a research, conservation and breeding program.

The two are scheduled to go back to China in 2010, according to the Post.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jGdiRh2SbYPVkQByIfEZZatYIIvw

Yes, this is all part of a deal. But ...... do you all recall that the Pandas came here during the Nixon years as a reward by China for having opened a dialog between them and us. It was a sign of appreciation.

Now fast forward to today. China owns our ass. This has been going on for many years. Then Clinton gave them MFN status. Then WalMart became their local agent.

Fast forward even more. The Chinese president, in his most recent meeting with a US president, asked the US president how much health care was going to cost.

Isn't that an odd question?

Not if it was intended to send a message.

I see this enforcement of the "loan" of the pandas as another step on that path of subtle but intentional posturing of China against the US. Be ready for more demands to which we will ahve little choice but to acquiesce.

Yup ...... they really do own us right now.




There will be lots of talk about this in the next few days. Much of it will be somehow connected with Obama's recent trip to China, and much of that will be opportunistic negativity. That is not my intent here. I see this as a warning sign. The only connection to Obama is peripheral ... he just happens to be president. This issue has transcended US administrations and will continue to do so. So please leave the knee jerk defense of him at home if you choose to discuss something in this thread. Okay?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. I guess I'm not seeing what the big deal is. Zoos often make loan agreements, especially with

endangered animals. And China has always been particularly protective of its pandas.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. I'd also like to point out that this particular policy goes back to the 1990s

Pairs of Pandas are loaned out for periods of 10 years, but the pandas and their offspring are still property of China.

I don't see what this has to do with politics full stop.

[FSogol]

3. True, but there must be some way the RW can use this to bash Obama.

:shrug:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

5. Yeah but...they'll bash him for anything. If we posted on everything they *could* bash him on,

we could fill up the first 10 pages of the forum in 10 minutes.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. You are TOTALLY missing the point

This has virtually ***NOTHING*** to do with Obama .... yet there you go ..... defending him.

It is NOT about him.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

11. I'm not defending Obama...or Bush...or Clinton. I don't see what a zoo loan program has to do with

politics at all.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Okaynevermind .......

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Here's the germ ...... they asked how much our health care would cost.

They own us and they want to control us. Right now, it is subtle. But this is like a bully goading a mark.

Yes, the deal was in place. It has been extended. Now they're calling their loan. Is that not a sufficiently clear and obvious metaphor for a larger issue we face? Like our debt? Like our trade balance?

As I said, this is subtle and not on anyone's radar.

Yet.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. They aren't "calling in" their loan. The loan period is up.

Borrowing a book from a library and returning it on the due date doesn't mean that the library has "called in its loan".

I understand your larger point, but I fail to see how it relates to the zoo loan.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. The panda loan has been renewed pretty liberally since it started in 1976 (or thereabouts).

Now they're taking a harder line. They have no need to take the pandas back. They're doing it because they can ... and as a message.

A message apparently lost on you. But all that means is you're in the majority to whom this will not be seen (or at least discussed) for what it is.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. When they say they are dumping the dollar as reserve currency, that sends a message.

They don't need to send cryptic messages in the form of panda bears. Especially considering they have 13 other bears here in the U.S. and have announced they plan to continue the breeding program.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. Is there a point to your arguing?

:shrug:

[imdjh]

4. If I were China , or any other creditor, I would be more concerned about the US declaring bankruptcy

.... than getting pushy. They own us? In what respect? If we owe them so much money that their economy will collapse if we don't pay, then who really owns whom?

[FarCenter]

6. These aren't the original 1972 pandas from China

Hsing-Hsing died in 1999. Don't know about Ling-Ling.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. You're right. This "loan" has been renewed a number of times over the years.

When Hsing Hsing died, they gladly sent a replacement.

But now .... they're calling their loan.

[FarCenter]

14. Ling-Ling died in '92

After Hsing-Hsing died, the two we now have on 10 year loan were sent. The loan might be extended, since they have done so in the past.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. The loan has already been extended twice in the last 2 years.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. It has been liberally extended in the past .....

.... and if it is now, then I may well be way off base. But I'm thinking the pandas will be going and that it is an intentional act to send a far, far, far larger message to us.

And actually, even if they stay, the message has already been sent. It all depends on how widely known to our citizenry they think they need to make the message

[TZ]

20. See my post below

It might be hard to believe but Chinese scientists might actually be more knowledgeable about Chinese wildlife than we are! Your post is American centric AND more than a bit xenophobic

[Jamastiene]

8. That is exactly what China is doing.

They will "collect" on all of their "loans" to us eventually. It is the silent red takeover.

[Deja Q]

16. Lobbyists helped engender today's conditions. Let them pay for it.

:popcorn:

[TZ]

17. Umm the Zoo is fulfilling their agreement with China

Plus Tai Shan has been here for TWO years longer than agreed on . And to be honest China is MUCH better at breeding captive Pandas than we are. So there are scientific reasons for this. Politics has little to do with this.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

22. China wants the baby panda for breeding purposes.

As far as I know, at this point they are only taking the young one. The adults are still on loan until December of next year.

[TZ]

25. Yep. They need to keep the gene pool up

This is a scientific decision, no more.

[emilyg]

21. Next they will call and

want their money.

[LoKnLoD]

24. That's one long ass flight

That's a long trip, I hope he has first class seats! :rofl:

[LynneSin]

26. You want to borrow mine.....

[Stinky The Clown]

27. That was unnecessary

I'm not implying any conspiracy at all. I'm simply saying it is diplomatic and political messaging of a type that is in plain sight but often missed completely or misunderstood.

And our crack press corps will play the story as written.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

30. And other people are saying that it's not a secret message. It's just a zoo loan program.

Yet you go on to argue that you're right and we simpletons just don't get it.

[LynneSin]

33. Thank you

:D

[LynneSin]

32. When we received the Pandas the contract was clear that they would go back

Not sure what the conspiracy you're twisting out of this. China has a very well defined program for breeding Pandas that ensure that hereditory illnesses are minimized.

[QC]

29. Are they going to make some kind of aphrodisiac with them? n/t

[LynneSin]

35. I heard they're going to be forced to work at sweat shops making schlock sold at Wal-Marts in the US

:hide:

[QC]

36. They'd be better of being made into some kind of traditional pecker stiffener. n/t

[LynneSin]

38. I heard they make Penile Enhancers you can buy at Wal-Mart

Billy Mays is going to promote them on his next informerical

[QC]

39. Well, now we know where all the panda have gone. n/t

[Iggo]

31. Some joke about being born here making him a citizen...

...but I'm too lazy to think one up.

[rug]

34. The panda's full name is Taishan Gonzalez.

[damntexdem]

37. Well, there it is in black and white.

We can't say that we were bamboo-zled.