I vehemently disagree with Obama's position on Afghanistan, but...

[WilliamPitt]

...I have to say that it gratifies me to know he took a long walk around Arlington National Cemetery before he made the decision. Small comfort, I know, especially for the people who will be buried there in flag-draped coffins because of this decision. But at least, at the very least, the man took stock of the situation in what I would consider to be the most important place to do so: among the dead.

Just my 2 cents.

===



On Veterans Day, President Obama visited a section of Arlington National Cemetery reserved for service members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

How Obama Came to Plan for ‘Surge’ in Afghanistan
By PETER BAKER
Published: December 5, 2009

WASHINGTON — On the afternoon he held the eighth meeting of his Afghanistan review, President Obama arrived in the White House Situation Room ruminating about war. He had come from Arlington National Cemetery, where he had wandered among the chalky white tombstones of those who had fallen in the rugged mountains of Central Asia.

How much their sacrifice weighed on him that Veterans Day last month, he did not say. But his advisers say he was haunted by the human toll as he wrestled with what to do about the eight-year-old war. Just a month earlier, he had mentioned to them his visits to wounded soldiers at the Army hospital in Washington. “I don’t want to be going to Walter Reed for another eight years,” he said then.

The economic cost was troubling him as well after he received a private budget memo estimating that an expanded presence would cost $1 trillion over 10 years, roughly the same as his health care plan.

Now as his top military adviser ran through a slide show of options, Mr. Obama expressed frustration. He held up a chart showing how reinforcements would flow into Afghanistan over 18 months and eventually begin to pull out, a bell curve that meant American forces would be there for years to come.

“I want this pushed to the left,” he told advisers, pointing to the bell curve. In other words, the troops should be in sooner, then out sooner.

When the history of the Obama presidency is written, that day with the chart may prove to be a turning point, the moment a young commander in chief set in motion a high-stakes gamble to turn around a losing war. By moving the bell curve to the left, Mr. Obama decided to send 30,000 troops mostly in the next six months and then begin pulling them out a year after that, betting that a quick jolt of extra forces could knock the enemy back on its heels enough for the Afghans to take over the fight.

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html?_r=1&hp

[leftstreet]

1. Was he checking for space? n/t

[berni_mccoy]

9. You are disgusting.

[leftstreet]

10. lol

[berni_mccoy]

12. Dead soldiers. Such a laughing matter to you.

[leftstreet]

15. I'm glad to know you take dead soldiers seriously

I sure do

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaysunb]

13. I'm glad I'm no where near you.

:evilfrown:

[spoony]

Instead of being angry at a poster

why not be angry at using the dead as a photo prop to support a war escalation?

[berni_mccoy]

22. If that's what you think that was, I feel very sad for you

[spoony]

23. Sad that I don't buy PR campaigns?

Don't be too sad or for too long for me. Save it for the future additions to the garden of stone.

[AndrewP]

59. Exactly. It was just a PR shot.

[MissDeeds]

36. +1

Again, had this been *, we'd have been screaming our heads off, and rightly so. The timing of the trip to Dover - which took him months to make - and holding the escalation speech with West Point cadets as a backdrop, would also have invoked jeers.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I hear you, my dear Will...

And I agree.

K&R

:hug:

[MadHound]

3. They say Nixon took long walks through Arlington as well

Sneak out of the White House and take some midnight strolls around the grounds of Arlington. Then, next day, or week, he would throw more human meat in the grinder.

Pious posturing doesn't impress me, bring the troops home ASAP will impress me.

Sadly he's apparently not going to take that road.

[Luciferous]

7. I feel the same way

it doesn't impress me either. It was a shameless photo op and nothing more.

[O is 44]

49. What....

Are you saying that a President that sends men and women into war cannot empathize with their ultimate sacrifice? Sorry I cannot make that mental leap; I believe he went there to take in the gravity of his decision. I do not believe this President made this decision without the deaths of these soldiers weighing heavily on his mind.

[JVS]

4. I disagree. Listening to him rattle off the photo ops in his speech...

set off an uncomfortable "Oh, so that's why was doing that! It was all for setting up a gravitas moment to refer to in his speech" bell in my head.

[arcadian]

5. photo op does not mean he took stock of the situation.

I've walked in that same exact spot. Been there many time. Why didn't they show the plowed area for the anticipated arrivals? I guess that doesn't convey Hope™ quite so well.

[virgogal]

6. A shameless photo-op, pure and simple.

[Marr]

63. Indeed. Funny how these things suddenly become profound acts rather than

cynical photo-ops when it's someone from 'our side' doing it. It's disappointing to see the same kinds of double standards being applied by our own side. It strikes me the same way it struck me under Bush; like sports fans supporting their team, simply because it's their team.

[earth mom]

8. I knew that you would justify the war somehow even though you posted an OP that Obama's speech

was just like *'s. :eyes:

Sorry, but the fact the Obama walked around Arlington is absolutely meaningless when he still went ahead and authorized the killing of innocent people and continued the endless war.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Get a grip

[jaysunb]

14. Amen....

:evilfrown:

[earth mom]

16. Truth hurts doesn't it? nt

[HughMoran]

29. See what happens if you give Obama the BOTD

:rofl:

[HamdenRice]

19. I'm not supposed to admit this

because of DU rules, but you post is really, really dumb.

[arcadian]

24. You need a reality check

and a lesson in syntax.

[bigjohn16]

17. The sad truth is that he gets to walk out the front gate.

The soldiers he sends there never will.

[Better Believe It]

20. Exactly, but the photo op shows concern as he prepares to send more GI's to die in vain.

[Karmadillo]

18. "Every time you fall for a photo op, it means that some media consultant's just got his wings."

nt

[spiritual_gunfighter]

21. "Taking stock of a situation"

then making a bad decision. Means you made a bad decision.

[Bluebear]

25. I would be more inclined to agree if he had insisted no photographer accompany him.

[HughMoran]

27. Well Will, you're learning the ropes. Obama=Bush - lots of recs, show any respect to Obama

blam! You're unrecced to death. Gotta love the "new" DU huh?

:hi:

[EFerrari]

33. The new DU responds to the new Obama. Who'd a thunk it.

[HughMoran]

35. lol

Nothing "new" about Obama - it's the unrealistic & impatient rageaholics on DU who've finally shown their true colors.

[arcadian]

38. You certainly got your rage on.

You are replying in every single thread concerning this, you and the rest of the squad.

[EFerrari]

39. Iirc, the self admitted ragaholics that get their posts locked are on the other side.

WhatEVER.

[HughMoran]

40. Yeah, whatever

Nice argument, I guess :shrug:

[EFerrari]

41. You know what, I'm honestly too bummed out

to do this.

I don't want to post a laundry list. So, "whatever" is where I'll leave it for now.

[HughMoran]

44. Not sure what you're getting at

...but I'd never do anything like that to you, so I'm not sure why you're using "threatening" language - it makes no sense at all.

I'm not angry, are you?

[EFerrari]

47. I'm not trying to be threatening in any way at all.

And I'm not angry, either. Just dispirited. Sorry.

[HughMoran]

48. Obama is the tortoise, not the hare

I don't know what else to tell you.

[EFerrari]

50. I always thought of him as a long distance runner.

[HughMoran]

51. That works

...though it does feed into a bit of a stereotype (Kenyan) :)

[EFerrari]

52. LOL

I didn't even think of that but you may be right.

I'm a long distance runner, too. Not a Kenyan, dammit! :)

[arcadian]

42. What a sophisticated comeback...

:rofl: <-@ you

[NYC_SKP]

56. imho...

The "crowd" of a very few, but very loud, unreccing disruptors will mostly be posting somewhere else, be TSd, or just go away in 6 months or so.

I'm looking forward to it.

[bigtree]

58. as if there isn't still a need in our political system to rage

It's funny how, with all of the major issues he's addressed so far still mostly intractable and critical (some decisions done well, some not so well, some wrongheaded), how anyone can suggest that pressure isn't needed in our competitive and resistant political system. We need more rage, not less. Sorry you take it so personally. I'll bet the president doesn't. He's said he doesn't several times. I'll bet he disagrees with you about the dissent.

[HughMoran]

60. I've dissented on the Afghanistan policy in many posts

You miss the point - I'm not against dissent, never have been.

OTOH, repetitive raging posts that kick any alternate viewpoints to the curb actually do a disservice to the cause of dissent in my opinion. I assume you disagree - that's fine with me.

(and yes, I've been guilty of the latter, but I'm trying like heck to stay out of those scraps)

[arcadian]

37. Wow, one Will Pitt post not K&Red to death

out of how many thousands? I don't know how he will ever survive...

Maybe it's because he's talking like one of the new "but" Democrats. "I'm against war, but..."; "The GLBT community deserves equal rights, but..."; "Bush and Cheney are criminals and should be prosecuted, but..."

Same old song and dance.

[timeforpeace]

28. Whatever.

[HughMoran]

31. Another one of your sophisticated one-liners

:rofl:

[RetroLounge]

30. So what?

He took stock? Big deal.

Soldiers will still die, and for nothing.

JAFP

(Just another fucking politician)

RL

[EFerrari]

32. He wasn't among the dead but among the photographers. Nice gig.

[stevedeshazer]

34. I agree.

Has this place really regressed so far that Obama is criticized for visiting Arlington?

Two or three years ago we were all bitching because Bush wouldn't visit Arlington.

[Bluerthanblue]

43. Bush visited graves and cried on camera, but it was the

midnight meeting with the soldiers flag draped coffins and the meetings he had with the families earlier in the day that speak to his awareness of the cost of war.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/29/politics/main5443136.shtml

Graveyards are fields of stone which speak about what has happened over years and years. The fresh bodies of our fallen, the anguish and grief of the families who are just beginning to come to terms with the reality....that is where the real cost is most evident. (imo)

I don't for a moment believe that he made this decision without deep consideration. From everything I've known and learned about the man, he is not someone who takes the welfare of the lives of others lightly.

I despise war- If President Obama were the 'Messiah' people like to accuse those who support him of believing him to be, maybe he could raise his arms and make the war just STOP.

But he is a human, just like you or me. A very good, decent human (imo) but a human just the same.

[eleny]

45. ,

dupe

[eleny]

46. Or was it theater?

I can swallow a number of decisions he's made. Maybe that's a matter of having no choice in the matters. But this escalation has crossed a line in the sand, Will. I don't trust the decision that he came to with the help of McCrystal who I loath.

[ipaint]

53. I don't know how anyone can go there

and then send kids on their 3rd, 4th and 5th deployments.

[bridgit]

54. "the situation on the ground" - a flat, five word codex for 'maybe we will not go'...

America is being flooded with images suggesting she needs to start to get used to whistling past the graveyard in dear/dire earnest. Perhaps President Obama is familiarizing himself with people he has yet to know though will, in time, be saying goodbye to

End War!

[NYC_SKP]

55. It's the mark of a good and thoughtful person, that they can try to see from different views...

And have the courage and class to post something kind about the president, even though they disagree with this decision.

Thank you.

Recommended.

:kick:

[Bigmack]

57. Cemeteries are nice and clean...

and they smell nice.

He should visit the brain-damaged and the multiple amputees and the burned.
He should maybe take a field trip to Landstuhl, our hospital in Germany. Or even a field hospital. He needs to hear the sounds and smell the smells.

[bigtree]

61. It had to make an impact on him

. . . the cemetery always has an effect on me.

He has a great responsibility. I'm convinced he's aware of that. He can, of course, be as devastatingly wrong in exercising or managing that responsibility, as he can be convincingly right.

[Marr]

62. Political theater, nothing more.

I hope these kinds of performances don't actually color your opinions.