The end of the "fat course": No BMI requirement for graduation....yet...

[Nikki Stone1]

Lincoln nixes 'fat course'

By VALERIE RUSS
Philadelphia Daily News
[e-mail] 215-854-5987

The Lincoln University faculty voted yesterday to end a controversial fitness-course requirement for obese students - at least for now.
The "Fitness for Life" course will now be recommended to certain students after they take a freshman-wellness course that is required for all students, James L. DeBoy, chairman of Lincoln's department of health, physical education and recreation, said last night.

Next year, health faculty will assess freshmen students' health on a number of criteria. They will then suggest the fitness course to those who need it most.

The previous course plan, scrapped in a heated meeting yesterday, mandated the fitness class for students with a body mass index, or BMI, of 30 or above.

It was approved four years ago as a graduation requirement for the freshman class enrolling in fall 2006. Those freshmen are now seniors.

DeBoy said a number of faculty members were upset that the policy undermined the principles on which the school was founded because it "separated or sorted out" obese students, he said.

Many faculty were also upset that the "fat course," as students dubbed it, brought international negative attention last month to Lincoln, a historically black school in Oxford, Chester County.

The university had sent e-mails to about 80 seniors telling them they had to take the fitness course or couldn't graduate. Now, overweight seniors will be asked to consider taking the course next semester, DeBoy said.

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20091205_Lincoln_nixes__fat_course_.html

[Skittles]

1. make everyone take it

[itsrobert]

4. Why? Should everyone take remedial math?

Just because I few students need some extra help? I don't think so!

[Posteritatis]

18. Fuck that; I went to university to learn. (nt)

[Skittles]

47. wouldn't hurt to learn some fitness

I don't recall being upset I had to take PE in grade school, high school and the military

[readmoreoften]

2. Ludicrous. No wonder we're screwed.

I mean, really.

[FLyellowdog]

3. For some people, the obese issue

has nothing to do with overeating, little exercise or any of the other things society has decided causes obesity. There are medical and/or genetic reasons for some obesity and until science and medicine can solve those problems, many of the obese have no chance to be "fit" by society's standards.

Granted many of us do eat too much and exercise too little, but for many, it's a lost cause. I feel badly for people who struggle with this issue and hope that solutions can be found soon.

[itsrobert]

5. It's simple. More food in than what's being burned off.

Less food, more exercise.

[NWHarkness]

10. Ignorant

That's like saying that gay people ought to just like the other sex and their problems go away.

Anti-fat prejudice is the last bigotry that is still acceptable to the left.

[itsrobert]

11. No it's not

Leave GLBT out of this. You don't know how silly you sound?

[Scout]

21. but we know how silly YOU sound

calories in/calories out simpletons should STFU

[itsrobert]

29. Nope.

Not going to back down to bullies. Sorry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. How bout medical science?

Will you back down to science?

Nope, didn't think so.

By the way before you call people bullies look at a nice mirror.

[itsrobert]

35. Yeah, science says it's impossible to gain weight

if you burn more calories than you take in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Here is a list for you to start readying, or perhaps not

Thyroid dysfunction

Side effects from medicines, steroids are used, for example, for Multiple Sclerosis. People taking steroids WILL gain weight

How about genetics? NAH could not be a problem

You know what I wish upon you a walk down my shoes... yep side effect of a medicine...

I can bet that at this moment, after a nice walk down that road you might develop a clue.

I wish it was just as simple as you think... but alas things are not that simple. Except that is, for the simple minded.

[itsrobert]

37. I take medicine and I have side effects

But I overcome those side effects by eating right and exercising. I don't make excuses. No pain, no gain.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Really? I am sure you know me very well

I lost the weight... that said, the dramatic weight gain was eating 1000\day calories and it was a side effect of a medicine.

next stupid suggestion you'd like to make? I mean under 1000 it is a starvation diet. You sure know that, don't you? Perhaps death would have been preferable from slow starvation? I mean no pain no gain...

You see this is the problem with the absolutist... while you may be mostly correct for 80% of the population, there is that other 20% that you are not... and perhaps, due to adult metabolic syndrome... it may go all the way to 25% or higher And with genetics and thyroids, chemicals etcetera, the picture that is emerging is not that simple.

But sure, you keep thinking it is okay?

[FLyellowdog]

26. Interesting,

http://news.aol.com/article/missing-dna-may-promote-child-obesity/803650?icid=main|main|dl1|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fmissing-dna-may-promote-child-obesity%2F803650

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Ignorant much, and willful too...

Yes for SOME Folks that is all there is to it, but it is NOT that simple...

And for so many reasons it is not even funny. But why bother? People who think life is just all black and white miss the shades of gray.

[Taitertots]

6. Let the medically obese get a doctors note

I get the feeling a lot of the obese people will be unable to find a doctor willing to sign such a document.

[FLyellowdog]

25. A doctor's note for what?

To keep others from discriminating against them? To reduce bigotry and biase in the mainstream because we can't all look like movie stars? Let's include the ugly as well. God knows,they don't deserve our compassion.

[Taitertots]

27. A doctor's note to say

That they are an unhealthy weight due to uncontrollable medical issues, not easily controlled personal problems.

If you think a excessively high BMI is "ugly" than that is your hang up. I think it is unhealthy and an indication of personal problems.

They deserve our help more than compassion. Someone who cares about them would be concerned that they are making damaging life choices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Like oh I don't know

death thyroids? More common than you think.

How about Adult Metabolic Syndrome? Care to use the google?

Jeesus age... you are willfully ignorant.

[Taitertots]

39. If they actually have those problems than they should have no problem getting a doctor's note

Are you willfully ignorant? I'm not denying there are medical reasons for obesity. I specifically state that there are and they should be exempt from these programs with a doctor's note.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. And yes, your tone said you were

by the way, why should we treat ADULTS like children? Oh wait, we do that with employees as well. We like to keep our adults in a child like state.

Here is a question... why has obesity shot up in our society the way it has? Oh wait. why has it accelerated not just in the US?

Care to try to ask some questions and not just judge?

Oh wait, that is so much easier... HA, HA... look at the fatties!

Yep, one of the acceptable biases still.

[Taitertots]

44. Why should we treat our students like we are their teachers?

As if the one thing they shouldn't be learning about in college is how to maintain a healthy lifestyle.


Why has obesity shot up? None of the uncontrollable factors have increased at anything close to the dramatic rise. While almost all of the controllable factors have had the same dramatic rise.


"HA, HA... look at the fatties"
When did I say anything remotely similar to that. Please keep your hallucinations about my ideology to yourself. The obesity epidemic is not funny, it is a very serious danger to the health of millions of people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. College is not the place to treat adults like children

neither is the work place.

Now obesity is a serious threat, that we agree on. But you have not even looked under the surface as to why it is goign the way it is. Free clue, it ain't just calories in and calories out...

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. I suspect you are wrong

here are some causes...

Genetics, Gene 16 in particular... and how it acts or does not act with Leptin and hunger control. Translation... people that are missing this DNA are ALWAYS hungry.

Dead Thyroids... no matter how much medicine you give, it is not fully reversible.

Reaction to medicines, can you even conceive of obesity as a side effect? You know rapid weight gain.

These are just from the top of my head.

The level of ignorance is astounding...

[Taitertots]

40. Then they should have no problem getting the doctor's notes

and being exempt from the class. I don't believe for one second that the sky rocketing obesity rate is being driven by anything but personal failures. Medically uncontrollable obesity explains the baseline, there is no evidence that uncontrollable factors are changing at a rate to explain the sky high obesity rate in America.

http://www.stvincent.org/ourservices/bariatrics/about/causes/default.htm
StVincent came up on google. They claim 2% of obesity is caused by a metabolic disorder, such as low thyroid function or hormonal imbalances.

[anonymous171]

13. "Some people" = Less than 5% of Obese people. nt

[petronius]

22. That's about the %age I'd guess, but I've never seen a cite

Is that your estimation, or do you have a source?

[slampoet]

7. I don't see Consideration Courses for Jerks, I don't see Finance Courses at all!!

Funny how a university falls into only addressing problems they see on the Today show and problems that affect their students directly.

[slampoet]

8. CORRECTION "and NOT the problems that affect their students"

[dustbunnie]

15. Assuming you meant "not" the problems that affect their students directly:

That's not exactly true. The administration were responding to the numbers which indicate that African Americans, and AA women in particular, may be susceptible to obesity. Therefore, there's a 20% greater chance that a black person will develop diseases associated with obesity, such as hypertension and diabetes.

They wanted to help students, particularly those who come from lower income areas and perhaps never had an opportunity to properly learn about nutrition.

While the result of this idea is not great, their hearts were in the right place, and it's never wrong to try to do something to help your community.

[slampoet]

19. How is giving People less degrees and less income going to help them purchase more expensive food?

Typical YT guilt.


BTW - Jews have a higher BMI than normal too but no one bothers to tell them what to eat. WHY? Because academics feel that Jews are overweight because of "Culture" and that Blacks are overweight because of Ignorance. How wonderfully patronizing.

[dustbunnie]

20. I never said it was a GREAT idea, just that the motive was.

That particular university has a terrible graduation rate, around 40% or something, so they have bigger problems than trying to get people to be more aware of their health.

I really don't even know how to respond to your last observation. What does it even mean, and where did you get this info that Jews have a higher BMI? Lol.

Most Jews are Caucasian so they are getting plenty of info regarding weight and health along with every other white person. The "cultural" issue you refer to is the fattening food Ashkenazi Jews and other Europeans have been raised on. You can google hundreds of articles telling people to stay away from this fat-heavy cuisine. Sorry, but your comment is a crock.

[itsrobert]

31. If only P.E. wasn't deleted from 11th and 12th Grade

This is the age young men and women need exercise the most.

[itsrobert]

28. It doesn't take much money to run around the block a few laps.

Think. Maybe start out walking and work yourself up to about 5 miles per day.

[flvegan]

9. Good.

Since the whole idea of BMI is shit, I'll bet the entire program here is shit.

Note to University...20 years ago called and they want their criteria back.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. I heard BMI could be really off as a measure of fat mass and health

I don't remember why, though. If you have any background on the faults in the BMI, I'd be interested to hear.

[dustbunnie]

14. BMI doesn't take into account lean muscle mass.

A body builder would measure as grossly obese, when he's anything but that.

A person considered skinny or in the normal range might be what some call "fat skinny." As in, having no healthy lean muscle mass.

[flvegan]

17. Exactly. It's a poor way to measure body makeup.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. Thanks, I didn't know that. Isn't there a way of measuring just muscle mass?

There should be enzymes that lean muscle lets off that fat does not. Conversely, fat contains estrogens that lean muscle does not.

[petronius]

24. Is there a better method that can be done comparably quickly, or is there just

no good way to assess body mass without directly measuring fat and muscle proportions?

[rd_kent]

16. The couse should be required for all, but no minimum BMI to graduate.

everyone should get the education on health and wellness but if someone wants to be a fattie, it their choice. just make sure to buy 2 seats on that next flight and be prepared for ridicule.

[Tobin S.]

41. I have a solution for the fattie problem

I will tell you exactly what to eat; exactly when to eat; exactly when to exercise, and how much and what kind. You will pay me a fee for this treatment and there will be no excuses. If you fail you will not get a refund. NO EXCUSES! You will not be allowed to eat or drink anything other than what I tell you. This will be a permanent change in the way you eat, exercise, and live. There will be no consumption of alcohol, caffeine, sugar, white flour, and foods high in fat. You will consume about 1300 calories a day. I repeat: THIS IS A LIFE-LONG CHANGE.

You will be thin, beautiful, and completely miserable- for life.

That was the diet, exercise, and lifestyle regimen I was on for 10 months starting in January of this year. I started at 289. I tip the scales at 183 now. I was told that it was to be considered a life-long change in the way I ate. Toward the end there, as I approached my goal of 185, I became very unhappy and angry. My rate of weight loss had slowed down and I was constantly nagged about it by a program "counselor" even though I was doing everything they told me. They told me that I should weigh less than 170 even though I wasn't interested in getting that thin. They made me feel like a failure if I didn't report a loss for the week. But yeah, I looked great and I was extremely healthy- and I still am. People treat me differently than when I was overweight. I get more respect. People are more accepting of me now. And all of that has pretty much given me a lower opinion of humans in general.

But, hey, give me a year and $1500 and we'll make a real man or woman out of you.

[Taitertots]

46. So basically you

Lost a hundred pounds, you feel better about your appearance, you look healthy, you feel healthy, you get respect(probably because you respect yourself), and all in only 10 months.

Sounds like an awesome transformation.

[Tobin S.]

48. I'm not doubting the fact that the program was effective

But the lifestyle change they expect is impossible to maintain unless you are a masochist.

I'm the same person I was when I weighed 289. Nothing about my brain has changed. There were no fat cells in my skull that impaired my intelligence. People treat me differently because I look differently than I did in January.

[Taitertots]

49. How is it that so many people are living what you claim to be impossible?

It is only impossible if you base your happiness on how much unhealthy foods you can cram into yourself. So many people live comparable lifestyles that it is laughable that you would consider it masochistic.

People treat you differently because now they see you as a healthy person, who respects him/herself, making reasonable life choices, and is fully in control of your life.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Because research tells us that yes

it is impossible for a number of overweight people

It has to do with Leptein and the sense of satiety... or lack off. Yes, GENES them pesky things, do play a role in this.

If you are eternally hungry, does not matter what you eat, you ain't gonna be happy.

Oh and that my dear is but one example of what could be going on.

There is also classic addiction behavior, but I am sure you knew that.

Oh and I have been able to maintain my weight loss... but if you ask me to go back to what is considered "normal" both my doctor and I know is next to impossible. Look this up. ADULT METABOLIC SYNDROME. (NO I am not obese, just technically overweight) Problem is that absolutists really do not understand that this is truly not as simple as they believe.

[Cobalt-60]

43. I'm a fat man. anyone want to give me some sh*t about it?

No one dares in person, but you should be safe enough here.

[Tobin S.]

45. jeeeeez why don't u like get on a treadmill or something

or eat a salad fer christs sake.don't u know being fat makes you look stoopid?????? don't take this the rong way.i mean i'm just like trying to help

See the post above yours.

[SoCalDem]

50. "...suggest the fitness course to those who need it most..."

gee, how patriarchal of them... I wonder how the people who choose, will be chosen themselves.

This school is making it so controversial, when all they had to do, was to make a semester/unit/whatever of health & nutrition, mandatory and offer it at half-price..

AND to institute a TOTAL ban of junk food, prepared/sold ON CAMPUS..

no more coke-machines/candy machines...no more breaded, double deep-fried pork cutlets at the dorms..no more carbo chips topped with fake nacho cheese "sauce" at the Student Union..

no more pizza delivery on campus..

If they are not willing to do that, then the college needs to STFU.