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Democrats you want my donations, I want my rights as a gay man

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
loyalkydem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:39 AM
Original message
Democrats you want my donations, I want my rights as a gay man
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 09:41 AM by loyalkydem
As a gay man, I’m deeply troubled by the democratic leaders, the older generation and their prejudices towards us. I want to know why is it when two people of the same sex get together (behind closed doors I might add) you suddenly feel threatened by us.
You don’t want us to have the same rights as you (straight) couples do
You don’t want us to share our benefits. What happens if our partner dies, we can’t make any decisions on what happens to him or her?

But yet, you have no problems accepting our money to help run your business. You have no problems accepting our donations when it comes to getting elected. I hear by take the following worthless arguments from NoGayMarriage.com for an example

The implications for children in a world of decaying families are profound. A recent article in the Weekly Standard described how the advent of legally sanctioned gay unions in Scandinavian countries has already destroyed the institution of marriage, where half of today's children are born out of wedlock.

What evidence do you have that children are harmed by same sex couples? Are you telling me to my face that gay people can’t raise and love children the way that you can?
The introduction of legalized gay marriages will lead inexorably to polygamy and other alternatives to one-man, one-woman unions.

In Utah, polygamist Tom Green, who claims five wives, is citing Lawrence v. Texas as the legal authority for his appeal. This past January, a Salt Lake City civil rights attorney filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of another couple wanting to engage in legal polygamy. Their justification? Lawrence v. Texas.

Do you realized you just cited a guy who is married to a woman? If anything you just made an argument as to why we need to ban marriage.
According to Divorce Rate.com It is frequently reported that the divorce rate in America is 50%. This data is not accurately correct, however, it is reasonably close to actual. The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue.", which is actually a projection.
"50% of all marriages in the America end in divorce."
The above statement about the divorce rate in America hides all the details about distribution, however.

Age at marriage for those who divorce in America
Age Women Men
Under 20 years old 27.6% 11.7%
20 to 24 years old 36.6% 38.8%
25 to 29 years old 16.4% 22.3%
30 to 34 years old 8.5% 11.6%
35 to 39 years old 5.1% 6.5%

The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage
50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.”
According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

So since you’re so hell bent on keeping us from marring, how about we petition our politicians to ban Divorce.? Since your stark defenders on attacking gay people every chance you get, how about we turn the tables on you and ban divorce? I bet that’s going to go over well.

An interesting article in the Boston Globe says this about gay couples.
IN MAY 2004, gay couples joyously smashed a legal barrier, celebrating the country's first same-sex marriages. Less than two years later, some of those couples find themselves on the edge of a less joyous legal frontier: They're divorcing.

More than 7,300 gay and lesbian couples have married in Massachusetts according to the Department of Public Health, and somewhere between 35 and 45 of those couples have since filed for divorce (according to an informal survey-the state's probate courts don't officially track gay divorces).
Gay divorces were of course not unexpected. Twenty percent of heterosexual couples either separated or divorced within the first five years of marriage, according to a 1998 report by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And in Vermont, which began allowing civil unions in 2000, 91 of the state's 7,828 unions have since been dissolved

I have yet to find evidence of divorces among gay couples? Why? It’s simple. Most gay couples I know like to talk things out.

In conclusion, I’m going to be saying this especially to elected leaders. You want to put your moral superiority on the rest of us, I can dig it, just don’t be surprised when you call me asking, no begging me for donations to your campaign that you get a big fat no. I will not support any candidate who feels that his right as a straight man or woman is more important than my rights as a gay man. Thank you very much. Sorry everyone, I had to get that off my chest.

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm gonna stand over here with this guy
I'm straight. I love my wife dearly. But we know two men who also love each other dearly and deserve the same chance at lifelong happiness without legal hassles that we have.

Democrats need to either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. Most of my fellow grassroots Democrats want to lead on this issue - why do so many on Capitol Hill just want to stand still?
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. The party will weigh your civil rights against the likely political cost...
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 09:52 AM by Orsino
...and recycle the same stupid-sounding excuses not to do the right thing.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. So fucking true....
:(
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Older generation"
Woah! I'd take a look at all the fundy 20- and 30- somethings out there. I missed the rest of your post because of your ageism.

LTH<---54 and been fighting for EVERYONE'S rights since 1968. And YOU'RE FUCKING WELCOME!
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thanks for your help, but no reason to get your panties in a bunch
The op was not targeting you, but the many other older folks who fight against us.
The number of fundys (putting the mental back into fundamental) of all ages bothers me.
It was not a bunch of 20 yr olds that vandalized my car and home years ago, they were all in their 40s 50s 60s the whole thing there ended up with them trying to burn my house down with a cross leaned against the front of my wood frame house. That was after 8 or so months of trying to bring me gawd very early on every Saturday morning, banging on my door at 7 am or so knowing that I worked 2 and 3 jobs. My weekend bartending job meant that I didn't get home and to sleep until 3 or 4 am sometimes. The only thing that actually got them to leave me and my partner alone was a 12g shotgun loaded with bacon rind and rock salt....not lethal at more than a few feet, but a couple good loads of that in their asses as they ran away kept them from sittin easy for a couple of weeks.

I grew up around fundys and I have been uneasy to say the least since I was about 13yrs old hearing the preacher talking about taking our country back from the forces of ev-ila and rapture and the convert to our brand of jeeezuz when they get control or if you won't convert some pretty horrible 'punishments'. I ll leave out their idea of punishments for heretics and humaseksuals.
They have managed to marry politics with blood letting and gawd.
Instead of goin off at the OP lets all go after the jezoids who want to enslave us all.
Gays are just a pawn to keep the hate fired up as are muslims or anyone who is 'other'.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. "Panties in a bunch."
And sexist too! Keep talkin' there, Sparky, maybe you'll hit on something.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Rude too to jerks like you
It was not meant in a sexist way but thats your problem its all about you, welcome to the ignored list.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Same here. 65 and fighting for everyone's rights since I was in elementary school. nt
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Studies have shown that older people are generally less tolerant of gay marriage.
That's just a fact.

It doesn't mean that you personally are in that group.
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. I refuse to vote for or support monetarily any candidate that opposes gay marriage.
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 09:59 AM by VMI Dem
And I mean ANY.
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PHIMG Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. And none to DCCC, DSCC and state equivilants
Don't forget the DCCC and the DSCC donates to whatever candidate they think can win and that means sending money to the Lierberman's the Nelson's, Landrieus.

You probably know this I'm just throwing it out there for everyone.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. I didn't like things about Al Gore and did not vote in 2000
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 10:05 AM by stray cat
I figured if W got elected - it wouldn't be that much difference anyway -after all how much damage can one man do?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You make perhaps the most important and critical point
and one everyone should be very mindful of. It seems like many are failing to learn from history.
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SacredCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yes, indeed... We pesky homosexuals should be mindful of history...
EXCEPT, of course, when it comes to drawing ANY kind of comparison with ANY past civil rights movement. Because, obviously, gay rights aren't the same as any other kind of civil rights struggle.

Believe me- I've learned PLENTY from history.

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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Sorry, I don't like putting that sort of label on people as it only leads to prejudiice
and other bad things. Worse intellectually dishonest comments like "pesky homosexuals" not only distracts from the truth and important issues, it leads to nastiness that is unneeded and disruptive.

I will also note that almost all the gains for the civil rights movements came from the Courts (mostly Democratically appointed judges) and Democrats in power. It seems you prefer not to address this important aspect of history.
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SacredCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. And we've got pretty good support in the courts...
That has been overturned by "popular vote." Not to mention, we have elected Democrats who claimed to be supportive, yet chicken out when it really matters.

I'm sorry that so many here don't understand how insulting the "wait your turn" and "would you have been happier with president McCain?" memes truly are. But I should be used to it by now.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I have certainly noted the lack of tolerance for differing opinions
and how they are placed in the worst possible light. I would think a DISCUSSION of issues would be better than constantly expressing outrage and then launching personal attacks. I simple can not agree with the idea that there can't be issues more important than issues of self interest. After all I am a progressive even though the things I support generally work against my own self interests. I am a progressive because it's the right thing to do. So when I discuss the issues and their priorities I am generally not biased by pressing self interests. I favor justice and rights and the best for all. How you get there has many paths, but I push for the ones that seem to make the best sense.
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TokenQueer Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Maybe because you have the luxury of privilege.
When did equality become self-interest? What a patronizing post.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. What 'things' did you not like about Al Gore?
Be specific. In what way would those 'things' have legally affected you? Did those 'things' include hiring bigoted clerics famous for using the worst invective against you and your family?
And I love how many of those promoting the acceptance of intolerance for the sake of a politician think announcing their own historic neglect of their voting franchise is some sort of selling point for their wisdom. I have not missed an election since I turned 18, and my first thought when anyone says they skipped voting because of 'things' they did not like about a politician, is this: was the ballot devoid of all other races and issues? Never have I voted in a Presidential election where the only vote to cast was for President. So you had these 'things' about Al Gore, and that meant you just shirked voting on anything at all. Interesting choice, but not one that I respect much. Very peevish. And non specific. We are speaking about equal rights under the law, and you compare that to 'things about Al Gore'. Not even respectful of the importance of the issue. Drive by one liners of dubious quality do not convince people to betray their own families, so you will have to engage, and follow through. Running a feel felt found on people about their civil rights is petty and lazy in equal measure.

:
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. You need to wait. This is not "the time".
x( Obama has much bigger things on his plate, more important then silly ol' human rights. maybe after the NEXT election. After all, this is a chess game , and change must be "incremental"!
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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. That's how it's done.
When they need your contributions badly enough, they will begin to accede to your demands. The key is making it sting hard enough... you have to find the sweet spot where the bait is big enough and they are otherwise bereft of options. You also have to find a way to make yourself bus-proof. If they can just take the money and say "we'll call you", you'll find yourself right back where you are now.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
17. Why can Adam Lambert French kiss his band member on
National tv without getting heat? You may think it's two different things but it's really the same. Until people are comfortable with the idea of gay sexuality there won't be the majority vote that it seems is necessary.
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tabbycat31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
18. come to NJ
the legislature is hearing testimonies on marriage equality today, and for the next month, we have a governor who would sign it into law
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. AMEN
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