I find it disturbing that Obama is president and there is talk of revolution

[TwixVoy]

There are posts on DU that seem to become increasingly more frequent in nature with talk of revolution in this nations future. I have even read it in other left leaning writings such as Kos.

During the reign of Bush there was a silent fear from many who were politically active (that varied from person to person as to the level of the concern) that Bush would create some kind of martial law. That the votes were rigged. That the people were not represented.

What worries me is that here on DU among some people on the left the same feeling still exists, and that feeling definitely exists with the right wingers.

Why do I find this disturbing? Because it suggests that this discontent is NOT a political discontent, but rather a universal discontent that exists with many in the middle and lower classes of society. It suggests to me that the ongoing trend in the United States is the elimination of the middle class and the creation of a nation of debt slaves to the banks. A nation of poor people who see their wealth being taken and given to the rich (for instance, all the bank bail outs thanks to tax payer funds) who see nothing getting better.

Many on DU know that I believe a long term trend will continue in this country in which people become more and more poor in general.

Some people have accused me of believing that we are looking at a massive sudden 2nd Great Depression, which is not true at all. I believe that - through global forces on this planet - this nation will become a nation of poor people in which there are two classes of people - the top 1% that controls all the wealth and everyone else. I believe this will be a slow gradual process that will occur over many years, and I believe that most Americans will be unaware of it. I have compared it to a frog in slowly heating water. They won't realize until it has already happened to them personally.

I don't think there is going to be any revolution, but I think we need to face the fact that our politicians - be they republican or democrat - are personally millionaires (or in some cases billionaires) and do not represent the middle and lower classes. What is going on economically is above them. What we see happening is the result of global forces and where we have allowed this nation to exist in the global community. We have eliminated a vast majority of our manufacturing base this past century, and we have allowed multi-billion dollar corporations to bust our unions. We have allowed banks to extend credit to we "consumers" and have become virtual debt slaves financing literally every aspect of our lives - be it cars, homes, our college education, and even our simple consumer goods purchases. We have allowed easy credit to supplement low wages and wages that do not keep pace with inflation.

Have our leaders done anything to better those situations that directly impact anyone below the upper class? Not really. We have seen constant hand outs to the upper classes though. And what was the conclusion from last weeks job summit? That the "private sector" billionaires that attended the meeting need to fix this. That's right - the same people who have actively been working to screw us over for decades. I'm not holding my breath.

I see our leaders working to ease us in to this future. Making token gestures to make us believe things will get better and this trend of a shrinking middle class will reverse. The old saying judge a person by their actions not what they say holds true here. I have seen little tangible ACTIONS taken to reverse corporate control. I've heard a lot of rhetoric, but haven't seen any real actions taken. Call me pessimistic, but I don't believe any politician is going to work to turn this around. It is we the people that will eventually have to fix this problem. What form of action that will take is anyones guess, but I believe it will be many years before enough people realize how badly the rich have screwed them TODAY and in many years prior to today.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I find it stupid.

I was going to post something in that thread that was snarky, sarcastic, and mocking.

But I couldn't think of anything that would make it sillier than it already was.

[villager]

15. -1

n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Oh no, here come the villagers with their pitchforks and their -1s.

Off to the -10 gibbet with me.

[BeHereNow]

17. Oh I LOVE my ignore button!!!

I saw your -1 one and rejoiced that
I didn't have to see why you posted it!!!

I can imagine...

BHN

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Me too!

I lost an argument
With you today
I'm putting you on Ignore

"I wish you'd answer
My questions," you say
I'm putting you on Ignore

I moved back my goal posts
My strawman went long
I'm putting you on Ignore

Your facts are stupid
Your opinion is wrong
I'm putting you on Ignore

You won't let me win
Your logic's absurd
I'm putting you on Ignore

You misplaced that comma
You misspelt that word
I'm putting you on Ignore

You should be on Fox News
You'd fit right in
I'm putting you on Ignore

Shut up! Shut up!
Shut up! Shut up!
I'm putting you on Ignore

You always resort to
Ad hominem attacks
I'm putting you on Ignore

You stinky ugly
Dumb poopyhead hack
I'm putting you on Ignore

I asked your opinion
But it wasn't like mine
I'm putting you on Ignore

I don't care for yours
I'd rather just whine
I'm putting you on Ignore

You debunked my rave
You derailed my rant
Say sorry, I mustn't
Continue, I can't
I just wish you weren't
So ignorant
I'm putting you on Ignore.

[tom_paine]

23. God, what an asshole you are.

I don't even know you (and dont want to) nor do I have a stake and position in this argument or thread.

You're just an asshole. But then, deep in your heart, you probably know that already.

:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Maybe.

But at least I'm not an anti-vaccer like BeHereNow.

:hi:

[tavalon]

26. I even know which of my ignoreds it is

This one is always the first poster.

[mix]

2. There is universal discontent. Ponder that. nt

[NYC_SKP]

3. I love reading about how people predict revolution in 10, 30, 50 years.

But your post makes more sense.

Recommended.

[leftstreet]

4. So the talk of 'revolution' only bothers you because Obama is Prez?

I can't tell what your point is

:shrug:

[TwixVoy]

5. It was pretty clearly spelled out

It bothers me because there seems to be a universal discontent in the middle and lower classes regardless of who is in office. This suggests to me that our problems are intrinsically a part of the direction this nation is being led. Not being led by people who represent us (politicians), but rather the ultra rich and mega corporations.

[leftstreet]

6. Ah, you mean discontent regardless of which party is in office

As if this is beyond the scope of 'politics' to cure?

[TwixVoy]

8. Exactly

[blues90]

13. it is beyond a cure by politicians

This is not going away and people are sick and tired of games played by politicians.
can't you see it does not matter who the president is?

[phasma ex machina]

9. Blame it on the 'net. It makes political reality only too easy for all to see. nt

[paulsby]

25. i think you live in a pauline kael'esque bubble.

i live in a solid middle class neighborhood. most people are not very political, nor do they feel some sort of universal content. it's basic suburbia USA - low crime, friendly neighbors, kids running around (well not today because it was frigging freezing), etc.

you THINK there is this universal content because you surround yourself amongst people who think that, like many of the "woe is me" people who come here.

for fuck's sake, we had 8 years of bush (major suckitude) and now we have obama and it's STILL gloom and doom

the stock market is up like 40% from it's low, gas is 1.50 off it's high, but it's still the frigging end of te world.

we still maintain great freedoms as americans, and live in country chock full of opportunities.

keeerist!

[saracat]

32. Than I live in the OP's neighborhood. I , too, live in a solid middle to upper class neighborhood

with friendly neighborslow crime,, kids running around but there is"universal discontent." We have a security team that patrols the neighborhood but robberies have increased, and in the daytime. Neighbors are selling and moving away because they are working in other .Folks didn't used to be political, but as fortclosures rise , teachers and programs vanish from the schools and groceries surge, they are speaking out.And they aren't blaming the GOP.They blame both parties.I don't know about your neighborhood but my neighbors are scared and unhappy.

And as far as maitaining great freedoms and opportunities,Where are those to be found? We have no jobs abd our state colleges have just raised tution beyond affordable.

[TexasObserver]

7. I'm very suspicious of anyone who urges such nonsense here.

The term "agent provocateur" always comes to mind.

[laughingliberal]

10. I'm not so sure the process is as gradual as you believe

I think we're much further down that road than most people believe. I would like to be proven wrong and hope I am. But the trend for workers and middle class Americans has been down for 30 years. This hit we took in the past 2 years is not one we will fully recover from. In other words, workers were already struggling and falling behind before the upheaval. We will come up from where we are now, perhaps, but won't get back to where we were before the debacle last September. And the chipping away will continue.

[TwixVoy]

11. It has accelerated I completely agree.... but take a look at the stock market

I think the stock market is the absolute WORST indicator of how the typical american is doing.... but it is a GREAT indicator to see how the ultra rich are doing. It tanked and the rich (along with their pals in congress and at the FED) got it corrected MIGHTY FAST didn't they? Funny how fast they moved their asses on that one. They even had a closed secret session of congress over it. Most people probably don't remember that little bit of news that was kept quiet prior to the bail out legislation coming up.

What it shows me is that the ultra rich and people in congress want to preserve the status quo as long as possible.

The problem is where your post comes in - you are totally correct - the situation is getting worse. It is getting harder for the elite to keep things going, and more regular Americans are starting to see what is going on behind the curtain.

Still I think you are underestimating the powers that be. I think they still have a great amount of ability to hold things together for at least the next few years.... but the decent of the middle class will continue at the same time.

Oh and you are absolutely right - we will never recover to where we were before this last down turn. Those jobs won't be coming back. No way in hell.

[bluescribbler]

12. "I owe my soul to the company store"

I took a $.50/hr pay cut when I started my new job last year, and nobody in the company got a raise this year. I don't see myself getting ahead. Quite the contrary. I certainly don't blame Obama. I blame the Supreme Court who accidentally declared that corporations had the same irghts as citizens, and the other Supreme Court who decided that $ = speech.

People forget thet the President can only wield so much power. He is constrained by the other, "coequal" branches.

[jtrockville]

30. "The company store" has now become a "coequal" branch.

[readmoreoften]

14. I think your reflections are accurate, but no reason to be disturbed.

In a revolution, politicians don't matter anymore. In a revolution, they are unnecessary. (My preferred form of social organization is conciliar democracy, but that's just me.) :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Politics is highly overrated as an agent of change. Politicians are followers, not leaders.

They blow with the wind..and campaign contributions from the suckers.

Real change happens when conditions become bad enough for the people to demand change and the politicians feel threatened.

As long as we hold our noses, buy the empty slogans, and continue to support a corrupt system, it will continue.

Revolutions needn't be blood in the streets, but they need to be forceful.

[Marr]

21. Well said.

Regular people never see positive change from self-described "leaders". Politicians are just showboats, desperately looking for a parade to jump in front of.

[salguine]

20. That talk of revolution is because Obama may be president, but he runs nothing. Wall Street does.

[defendandprotect]

22. Think you are correct . . . and also think the right wing VIOLENCE will continue . . .

in assassinations and other adventures they may need to keep wars going and the

people living in fear --

The right wing has been working for more than 40 years on turning America into a

"third world nation" --

without doubt.

Our Founders seemed to recognize that we would need constant revolutions to keep democracy --

because from the first, elites knew they had plenty of time to defeat it --

many compromises were also made with them on "all are created equal" --

but not if you were female, a African enslaved here -- or a native American --

The elites found immediate ways to take control of our natural resources and our wealth --

that's still going on -- that's what capitalism is all about!

Nation's have revolutions when the suffering of the people becomes intolerable --

evidently, many more of us will suffer before there is another real revolution --

but this one has to be NON-VIOLENT --

The only people who would gain anything by a violent revolution would be the elites.

And, violence only leads to more violence . . .

[tavalon]

28. Fascinating

My hubby and I had a conversation about this very topic about an hour ago. He said almost verbatim what you said. One thing he said is that I shouldn't feel bad that not everyone sees the same battlefield because if everyone saw the same battlefield, it would be covered with blood and dead bodies. The revolution is being set up quietly and hopefully we will find a nonviolent way to do it. But even after it happens, we must be ever vigilant because even if we put every Goldman Sachs criminal in prison, every Bush administration war criminal in prison, the elites will still be dangerous. A nonviolent revolution that doesn't culminate in a frenzy of violence has much more of a chance of changing things more permanently.

So basically, we are in the long build up to the change and some of us, like the happy suburbanites that Paulsby refers to, will be shocked when the change comes and for them it will seem to have come from out of nowhere. But for those of us who have been more aware, it will have come after years of build up.

[earth mom]

24. I think this country will go the way of Argentina. There was a good thread about it last night

but it's been disappeared probably because the info came from Prison Planet.

There are a series of 12 videos on You Tube, but I will have to do a search because I didn't get a chance to watch them all last night.

But given what I already know and see happening in this country, it's not too big a stretch to see the similarities of where we are headed and it's NOT pretty.

I also have a big fear that much of what is happening is being done to justify the creation a North American Union with Canada and Mexico so that the powers that be can throw away the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and turn all of us peons into slaves while they steal everything that isn't nailed down.

[cali]

27. hmmm.

"Call me pessimistic, but I don't believe any politician is going to work to turn this around"


So Bernie isn't working to turn this around? Sherrod Brown isn't working to turn this around? Members of the Progressive Caucus in the House aren't working to turn this around?

As for thinking "the people" directly are going to turn things around. That's frickin' laughable. The largest and most active populist movement in this country is the Teabagger movement. And all the cries about how it's really just astroturf, are a form of sticking your head in the sand.

[dysfunctional press]

31. you said it yourself: "It is we the people that will eventually have to fix this problem."

and that fix will likely involve some kind of violent revolution- after all, that is how 'we the people' handled things to make this a country in the first place.
there's no reason to believe that we won't do it again...people with power and wealth don't generally give it up voluntarily nor easily.