Today I am a Socialist.

[Deep13]

I've learned today along with the rest of you that universal health care has failed in the Senate. I applaud the efforts of progressive Senators like Sherrod Brown and Charles Schumer and the efforts of the House. The Democratic Party generally and especially Pres. Obama is pretty much where the Republicans were in 1970. Obama ran on change and, as predicted by me and others, has failed to deliver. Public health insurance has been nominally the flagship issue of the Democratic Party since W.W. II. Notwithstanding Reid's denial, the Democrats and their 59-vote majority have completely failed. Sure, we still need insurance reform and elimination of lifetime limits and preexisting conditions. But that is not what we were promised or what we demanded. I said in the primary that if Obama blew this chance for us, I would never forgive him. I won't.

The problem is not the Republicans or the Democrats. It's the parasitic capitalist system that's at fault. I will still vote for progressive candidates and support them financially. But the party itself can go to hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYkTHgoVPmE

I'm glad Ted Kennedy can't see what a shameful performance this has become.

[Ken Burch]

1. You will be hammered by some. But they have no argument against you

They know you're right to be enraged by what the market system has done to politics, and they will simply abuse you for pointing out the truth.

I admire your courage.

[NJmaverick]

8. Courage- Is the convience store clerk that takes the overnight shift to feed his family

Courage is the brave men and women that fight in Afghanistan to keep it from being a terrorist safe haven. Courage is the men and women working in emergency services who routinely risk their live to protect and save ours. The list goes on and on.



One thing I can tell you isn't on the list- It takes no courage to post self aggrandizing crap

[Ken Burch]

18. The OP had no self-aggrandizement

It was a legitimate declaration of rage and disappointment. The ego of the poster had nothing to do with it.

Everything that has gone wrong in this administration has been the result of trying to appease business and "centrists". Those two groups have never had any interest in actually making anything better for the people. Their sole objective was to politically castrate the president.

[NJmaverick]

22. sorry but after your talk of courage

I really have a hard time taking your comments seriously. That situation is made worse that you just go on with a string of beliefs and opinions not supported by fact or reason (so all that is left is the credibility of someone who badly misused the term courage).

[Ken Burch]

23. Besides which, those who are willing to sacrifice the public option

don't give a damn about anybody working the night shift at convenience stores.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

29. Right on

Thanks for keeping it in perspective.

[kenfrequed]

37. Bingo.

It is for the Convenience store clerks and the people making poverty wages that we are standing up for.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenfrequed]

38. I'm sorry...

But I DID serve in the military and your statement is full of crap. There are many kinds of courage and granted standing up on a website isn't high on the list but if the guy is willing to go it the distance with his political beliefs in favor of working people over Wallstreet people then I say he has some species of courage.

And I think there probably is a clear paradox in suggesting someone is "self-aggrandizing" while posting nearly anonymously. (granted the anonymity does counter the courage argument)

[Deep13]

40. Agree with your assessment of courage...

...just don't see how this is self-aggrandizing. I'm not claiming any greatness. Just sick of being a disposable supporter.

Sometimes telling an unpopular truth or sticking up of an unpopular group is courageous, but obviously not when it is from an anonymous internet post.

[brooklynite]

21. How about this argument?

The "system" we have is the system the public votes for. It is the system in which two parties are organized enough to get people to vote for their candidates. It is the system in which the two parties fight for the large mass of voters in the political middle, and in which most people (including myself), can see a difference between a center-left Democratic Party and a hard-right Republican Party. It is a system in which one party is establishing the principle that everyone has the right to health care, whether government provided or not, and the other is resisting any change whatsoever. If that's not enough for you, I invite you to take command of the Green Party, Socialist Party, or the Party of your choice, and try to convince the electorate that their ideas are better. So far, they haven't been able to convince anyone else.

[treestar]

30. +1

And it's impossible to convince people when they try to alienate them. They end up working against what they say they are trying to accomplish.

[Lucian]

2. +1

[asdjrocky]

3. I say I've had enough. Fuck 'em. nt

[FrenchieCat]

4. I'm tired of the instant reactionary brigade.

Going 1/2 cocked with no real tangible information.

[Deep13]

5. Instant? Where have you been all year? nt

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

9. I'll alert the media.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Well, they certainly are 1/2 cocked as well......

and actually provide no service by making
pronouncements without providing any facts....
that's for sure.

But I guess that is how they want it.

[EFerrari]

14. And that's why they're particularly suited for this important mission. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

15. true.

[blindpig]

26. Get a dictionary

Reactionary (also reactionist) refers to any political or social movement or ideology that seeks a return to a previous state (the status quo ante) and opposes changes in society it deems harmful. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary

Kinda funny, considering....

[NJmaverick]

7. "Obama ran on change and, as predicted by me and others, has failed to deliver."

and this is the root cause of why facts are discarded in favor of negative Obama agendas. For many it's better to be right than support what's right.

[EFerrari]

10. How did you get from failed to deliver to facts are discarded?

/oops

[NJmaverick]

13. I take the thing you discarded (the facts) as a given

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

[EFerrari]

19. That's a neat page.

But if he didn't promise it, it's not included in the measurement which makes it less than comprehensive. And, is this right, his promises are all weighed equally? So repealing NAFTA is weighed the same as kicking lobbyists out of DC and so on?

[Deep13]

33. Care to unpack that one for me? nt

[Better Believe It]

11. Here's a better link for the song. It includes the lyrics!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686PzvZvXkc&feature=related

[JVS]

16. Marxist-Leninist or heretical school of thought?

[Deep13]

24. social democrat nt

[branders seine]

17. The Democrats just pissed away control of the federal government

for at least another generation.

[Better Believe It]

20. And here's "The Internationale" sung in 47 languages !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7PrVtZAG4M&feature=related

I think this is probably the original version.

[dwnorman]

27. a Socialist

Do you really see it as a, "parasitic capitalist system"? What would you prefer over capitalism?

[Deep13]

32. A nonparasitic free enterprise system...

...where companies and their leaders bear the full economic, social and environmental costs of their products.

[mike_c]

28. me too....

:hug:

[PerpetuallyDazed]

31. Capitalism is what the rich have made of it

and what we have let them get away with. I think the majority of Americans are right there with you, even if we don't realize it yet. I'm still optimistic about the future because the more and more people I've talked with (liberals AND conservatives) agree our Capitalist system has run amok.

[jgraz]

34. Welcome to the proletariat, comrade!

:patriot:

[snooper2]

35. Can I have your extra air-compressor

and any extra veggies in your garden then please :rofl:

[Deep13]

36. Sorry, no air tools here.

Ergo, no need for a compressor. No garden either. It's late autumn and will be winter shortly.

Socialism is Western Europe does not require sharing to that degree.

[Deep13]

39. THIS made it to the greatest page? Really?

Thanks, I guess. :shrug:

[AllentownJake]

42. Well reasoned argument for a position many are feeling

:thumbsup:

[fascisthunter]

41. well, said

[Zomby Woof]

43. How do you know Ted Kennedy wouldn't have voted the other way?

It's quite likely he would have crafted a similar compromise, if not outright voting for the one that is being proposed. That's what made him the Lion of the Senate. Compromise. It's an art form in Congress - especially in the Senate.

It's easy to idealize the dead when they're dead. But look at Kennedy's RECORD and tell me he would voted no. Highly unlikely.

Re: Henry Clay, et al...

[Deep13]

47. You're position is that Kennedy would have voted against a public option?

If he went along with what is euphemistically called a compromise, it would have been because he was surrounded by assholes and could not have gotten and real reform. I have to think that's why Sherrod Brown is in on it.

[Naked_Ape]

44. Hi there! Me too.

But then really, I'm one every day. Really.

I try to be pragmatic. I do what I can to move things in the direction they need to go. It's a long thankless slog, but I keep at it. :) I am kinda new here so I'm not really sure if I will get slapped for calling you, and the others here that think what we are getting is somehow short of what we ordered, a bunch of weak kneed whiny cunts. How about we get Howard Dean to write a big juicy single payer system like all the other cool kids have. We could include prescriptions, family planning, and lots of preventative care. Free unlimited drug treatment and mental health coverage too. Wouldn't that be Just So Precious!

Now run along and ask Uncle Joe Lieberman if it would be OK. Go on. Maybe if you ask REALLY nice he will let you have it. Oh wait... Is there a problem?

Well of course there is you low birth weight, premie, fetal alcohol syndrome, drips. Your brains haven't fully matured to the point that you realize that they actually count the votes to pass laws. No, the Good votes don't count more than the bad ones. It's OK. The grown-ups are trying like hell not to throw you out with the bathwater. Realizing that even pathetic wretches like, well, yourselves need some form of care they will try to get you the best they can. I'm sure they will try to do better next time.

Whatcha gonna do? Hold your breath til you turn blue again? How bout you sit and bitch and whine and use your poseur anger as an excuse for not getting involved or donating to actually make anything happen. Why don't you sit and pout until someone else comes along to clean up you room for you like the smug, lazy, spoiled brats you are. You don't know when you got it good. You got talk, but... well, you sure as hell got talk.

You think Obama is the finish line??? Dude, this is the start. This country, this system, has survived by giving revolutionaries just enough, just enough power. Just enough freedom. Just enough rights... to buy them off and make them sit down and shut up. Now it's your turn. Now it's your turn to say We participated and we got our way and we gave up like the gutless bitches we are.

Wake The Fuck Up.

We are at a crossroads that comes around once in a lifetime If You Are Lucky. Quit whining and organize. Get involved. Get some real liberals elected. Get some goddam Socialists elected. You wanna rag on Obama, on congress for not being Left enough??? Who the fuck Elected them? Who let Lieberman be the linchpin in the senate? I mean, really? Your argument is not credible.

Ape

[David Zephyr]

45. I'm a socialist yesterday, today and tomorrow. I will die a socialist.

"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

"Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

"In the earlier epochs of history, we find almost everywhere a complicated arrangement of society into various orders, a manifold gradation of social rank. In ancient Rome we have patricians, knights, plebeians, slaves; in the Middle Ages, feudal lords, vassals, guild-masters, journeymen, apprentices, serfs; in almost all of these classes, again, subordinate gradations.

"The modern bourgeois society that has sprouted from the ruins of feudal society has not done away with class antagonisms. It has but established new classes, new conditions of oppression, new forms of struggle in place of the old ones." -- KM & FE, 1848

[Ildem09]

46. I'm thankfull they didnt name this piece after Teddy the Great

He demands and we deserve so much better from our politicians. I think it's funny that if Bernie would have been in congress in 1932-1980ish he would have been squarely in the Democratic Party