I really wanted to be proved wrong about Health Care reform

[AllentownJake]

I wasn't. There is no reform. Ever since 1985 when the DLC was formed there has been a movement by party elites to outdo Republicans in being corporate whores. The DLC writes the policy, because the DLC brings in the money. The end was known from the beginning. You don't start off bargaining with what you want, you start off with dreams and settle in the middle.

When this bill goes to reconciliation, the Public Option will have to be a non-starter, and there will be pressure on the left to take what we can get or doom us to no reform. Since there is no reform in the bills, it will be bullshit, but I expect the talking points to go out and for people on here to buy it.

Let us make this clear, the Insurance Companies are fine with the Medicare provision. They can dump their over 55 population onto the Government and milk the younger population more. Congress has essentially thrown the youth to the wolves. All those over 55 celebrating, you are dooming your children and grand children to no reform because we will experience cuts on those programs in the future when we have to pay for the debt of the past 30 years and the next 10. Shame on you.

Free Trade, Taxation, Banking Regulations, and now Health Care reform. Cap and Trade is next, and if you think that is about environmental policy, ask yourself why the concept was created with consultation by Enron and the person who invented derivatives is a key contributor. I think Al Gore is a better man than George W. Bush, but I do remember him selling NAFTA on TV in the 90s. He isn't on my side. I'm not a climate change denier but the most common sense approach of regulation and taxation of imports that violate environmental standards is immediately dismissed because it will upset a few donors.

Are the DLC better than the GOP? I don't know. The DLC moved in lock step with the Bush agenda while crying about it. They love to privatize everything. They view the people on the left with more contempt than people on the right. Are they better? They get to use the democratic brand created by FDR to do republican things. They bought our brand, and they will use that goodwill from it to enact their agenda.

[optimator]

1. baby boomers have a reputation

and I fully expect them to continue the behavior that earned that reputation.

[rug]

37. The stupid are easily divided.

[BeFree]

2. 'Twas ever thus

The old feast on the young. We inflate our holdings and make the young pay the inflated prices; because we can and you do.

Only collapse will change the way we do what we do. Don't tell us you want collapse, that would hurt everyone. Get used to it and if you survive you can do it to the youth when you get old. Ya know, get even. <grin>

[AllentownJake]

12. I think I'm willing to hit the re-set button

for the next generation...like my grandparents did for my parents.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. Once it goes through then they should starting working on the next phase

eventually it will get to single payer providing Dems stay in power. The present bill just burrows a way through.

[AllentownJake]

5. Delusional

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. not as delusional as you think

people will want more

[dysfunctional press]

7. we've wanted more for a LONG time.

this isn't it.
not by a long shot.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. well

it's about time

[dysfunctional press]

16. it's long past time...

but like i said- this isn't it.

[AllentownJake]

8. LOL

There isn't going to be any money to pay for more. The country is being looted right now, and the democrats are playing lookout.

[cornermouse]

38. People can want all day long

The insurance companies are going to have OUR money via new insurance premiums to hire the lobbyists who will prevent that from happening. Plan on it.

[Selatius]

11. There's no point in a private insurance mandate if you're going to junk it in the first place.

Junking it would mean replacing the mandate with a taxpayer subsidized single-payer plan or a combination subsidy/premium single-payer plan. The bill devotes, what, 800 billion to setting up a private mandate with subsidies for poor folks? Why invest so much money into that when the whole goal was originally to get single-payer in unless that never was the intended goal in the first place?

Single-payer was taken off the table precisely because the Public Option was supposed to be the compromise, and Obama campaigned against a mandate in the primaries to begin with compared to both John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, but now there's talk of getting rid of the Public Option in favor of some combination of subsidy/private mandate with a Medicare buy-in for people 55 and over? What's up with the changing of the goal posts every three or four weeks? The only person seriously suggesting we go single-payer was Dennis Kucinich, and he was never taken seriously.

[AllentownJake]

30. Yes that argument has always made me laugh as a way to single payer

At least with the Public Option, there was a slight sliver of hope people would be transitioned off the private plans.

[Tesha]

13. The Democrats will be ejected from power in 2010. And they'll deserve it.

This is a reply of 1992 to 1994, brought to you by many
of the same Bozos and sponsored by the DLC. Only this
time, we'll end up losing thee Presidency as well after the
first term.

Tesha

[tavalon]

21. That is one way to see it

Howard Dean sees it that way and one of my hubbies sees it that way. I see it more like the OP. I hope I am wrong.

[AllentownJake]

24. Howard Dean is as far away from democratic leadership now as possible

If he was still head of the DNC and selecting candidates, I'd buy his argument. Rahm is in charge now.

[fasttense]

4. Think about it. This piece of crap legislation will force a 28 year old girl

to buy, at a very high rate, health insurance that does NOT cover: contraceptives, abortion, dental. For her, it is a total waste of her money. Of course she could pay the fine, but who knows how high that will end up being.

I don't need medical coverage. I'm a retired disabled vet, but my children need it. This mandatory give away to health insurance corporations kings, I mean CEOs, is a scam.

[Echo In Light]

9. +1

[waterscalm]

18. Nelson's amendment failed in the Senate yesterday but who

knows what will happen in conference (if it goes to conference)

[asdjrocky]

10. I wanted to be surprised too.

The Senate is simply broken, and the Commander in Chief is very little help.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

15. I have too many negative thoughts on my mind today to form a coherent post.

The best that I can do is :thumbsup:

One thing that I do know is that being 53 doesn't seem to get me much in the way of serious HCR.

[AllentownJake]

19. I was expecting this

or a last minute defection of Lieberman to the GOP. So my anger is more tempered by shock others didn't see this coming.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

20. At this point, I'm pretty much in a constant state of shock.

No awe, just the shock of wondering how they're going to continue to water down any substantive reform by the time that it actually gets to Pres. Obama's desk.

Lucky me, I have to go get checked in an hour to see if I need a root canal and how much it will cost out of pocket.

That might be one of the more pleasant things that's happened this week.

[AllentownJake]

23. Game of Bad Cop Gestapo

The democrats being the bad cops and the republicans being the gestapo.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

31. That made me think of Paula Cole and Where Have All the Cowboys Gone.

Instead of a classic western where the hero shows up just in time, I think that we're going to end up being figuratively lynched before our hero rides into town.


Where is my John Wayne
Where is my prairie son
Where is my happy ending
Where have all the cowboys gone


In the modern western, the people that we were counting on to rescue HCR are down at the saloon drinking with the lobbyists and the corporate shills. And of course, the saloon is owned by the Health Insurance Companies.

I still am hoping that somebody on the (D) side proves me wrong, but I'm not exactly overly optimistic.

[SOS]

22. David Graham Phillips saw it coming....in 1906. Check this out:

"The treason of the Senate! Treason is a strong word, but not too strong, rather too weak, to characterize the situation in which
the Senate is the eager, resourceful, indefatigable agent of interests as hostile to the American people as any invading army
could be, and vastly more dangerous; interests that manipulate the prosperity produced by all, so that it heaps up riches for
the few; interests whose growth and power can only mean the degradation of the people, of the educated into sycophants, of
the masses toward serfdom."

Published in Cosmopolitan Magazine, 1906

103 years later and it's the same sh*t.

[AllentownJake]

28. I believe that was the debate for direct election of Senators

[waterscalm]

17. Senate tentatively agrees to remove public option: WashPOST...

MY subject line was on the front page of WP but when I clicked it, it went to another headline (same point though)--

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804388.html?hpid=topnews

Senate may drop public option




By Shailagh Murray and Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 9, 2009

Democratic Senate negotiators struck a tentative agreement Tuesday night to drop the controversial government-run insurance plan from their overhaul of the health-care system, hoping to remove a last major roadblock preventing the bill from moving to a final vote in the chamber.

In addition, people as young as 55 would be permitted to buy into Medicare, the popular federal health program for retirees. And private insurance companies would face stringent new regulations, including a requirement that they spend at least 90 cents of every dollar they collect in premiums on medical services for their customers.

The announcement came after six days of negotiations among 10 Democrats -- five liberals and five moderates -- appointed by Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to work out differences between the two camps on the public option and other pressing issues. Appearing in the Capitol with Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), the leader of the liberal faction, and Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.), representing moderates, Reid hailed the deal as a broad agreement that has the potential to "overcome a real problem that we had" and push the measure to final Senate vote before Christmas.

"Not everyone is going to agree with every piece," Reid said. But when asked whether the deal means the end is in sight after nearly a year of work on President Obama's most important domestic initiative, he smiled. "The answer's yes," he said. ....:puke:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. The thing that bothers me the most is that Obama will sign any bill. This is not mentioned enough.

BTW....it seems that with the talk about extending Medicare to those 55-64 would benefit me, I think it would be horrid to have both a mandate and no public option available to those below my age group.

[AllentownJake]

26. My other sinking fear

Is that with the bipartisan group the conservadems are lobbying for to enact federal entitlement cuts to medicare and social security, you aren't going to be getting much.

Essentially this is a win-win for conservadems, they can put a few more people on medicare only to cut their services later.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. Or a way of getting people used to paying and continuing that when they become 65 and up. Like

putting a lobster in a kettle of cold water and raising the heat slowly until they die....

[Waiting For Everyman]

27. Totally agree, AJ.

I'm 59 but I'm not willing to throw my/our kids under the bus. If they pass this, I will refuse to pay any mandate that comes my way, demonstrate alongside the kids (if they show up) as our parents the "greatest generation" would NOT, and get jailed if need be - it won't be the first time anyway. I'll refuse their bullshit mandate, even if I'm a riot of one!

This is more lipstick on a pig. And a stinky one at that.

[HuckleB]

32. When did President Obama sign a health care bill?

[AllentownJake]

33. Good question

6 months of debate and he isn't getting one by Christmas. He'll get the disaster in January and you can fawn over the picture thread.

[HuckleB]

35. So you have no actual answer.

Just the usual pointless BS.

Thanks.

:eyes:

[mdmc]

34. I wouldn't have minded being proven wrong

I still hope that I am..

[eridani]

36. Given that they plan to charge $600-$800 per month for the buy-in

--those over 55 are STILL screwn.