Religious foes try to nullify election of atheist in North Carolina

[rd_kent]

On Nov. 3, the voters of Asheville, North Carolina spoke and elected writer and builder Cecil Bothwell to the city council. Now, some who opposed his election are saying that he can't hold public office. Why? Because he's an atheist.

Article 6, section 8 of the state constitution says: “The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.”


-snip-

According to constitutional lawyers such as Bob Orr, executive director of the N.C. Institute for Constitutional Law, there's no question to be resolved. The US Constitution, with its First Amendment guarantee of religious freedom and Article VI's “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States,” trumps any state restriction.

“I think there's any number of federal cases that would view this as an imposition of a religious qualification and violate separation of church and state,” Orr said.

During the campaign, Bothwell, who made no secret of his atheism, was attacked for it and for writing a book, The Prince of War, which accused evangelist Billy Graham of using his access to US presidents to push a theocratic agenda.

http://www.examiner.com/x-8947-LA-Atheism-Examiner~y2009m12d8-Foes-try-to-nullify-election-of-atheist-in-N-Carolina

----------------

Even though its unconstitutional AND the enlightened voters of Asheville elected him, the wing nuts don;t want him seated. When will the religious folks ever learn?

If for some reason, he is not seated, this will go all the way to SCOTUS. (And I hope it does, so that these stupid laws can get taken off the books.)

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[ck4829]

2. In America, the Constitution trumps the Bible. Case closed, you American Taliban nutjobs. K&R

[StopTheNeoCons]

9. + 1m

[rd_kent]

43. ...

[pleah]

61. K&R

[PVnRT]

3. I kind of hope it does go to SCOTUS

It's time for these religious test laws, which are unconstitutional, to be wiped from the books.

[rd_kent]

I couldn't agree more!

[Canuckistanian]

11. I hope he DOES make a federal case of it

This is ACTUAL persecution, exactly what THEY howl about.

[rd_kent]

25. yup

[struggle4progress]

57. Cecil Bothwell joined the city council Tuesday

[rucky]

63. Bring it!

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Except that SCOTUS is still 5-4

and not in our favor.

[atreides1]

4. When will the religious folks ever learn?

When they've gone to paradise!

[struggle4progress]

60. The news story quotes only H. K. Edgerton, who was thrown out of the NAACP a decade ago

and promptly joined the ranks of the neo-confederates. He's an attention hound: he once walked from here to Texas dressed in a gray uniform and carrying a confederate flag, in order to prove something or other -- nobody really knows what. The white supremacists, of course, eventually got tired of toying with him and started making accusations, so a few years back he decided to stop waving the confederate flag. Bless his pointy little head: he's managed to get himself quoted in the paper again, but he's not going to have any effect on anybody

[MNDemNY]

5. Another example of why religion must be relegated to the scrap heap of history..

[rd_kent]

7. +1000

[Unca Jim]

68. Indeed!

The dialectic predicts it!

[ET Awful]

6. Well, there's a potential jackpot here actually . . . if it goes all the way to the SC

Not only will it get rid of laws like this, but it could solidify for all time the existence of the wall of separation between church and state as outlined by Jefferson.

[rd_kent]

10. Bu, bu, but, the founding fathers were all christians and wanted America to be a christian nation!

That shit burns me up when I hear it. Even when you show them the ACTUAL WRITINGS of the founding fathers that PROVE they did NOT want a religious nation, they will not accept it.

[ET Awful]

12. Me too. But it cracks me up when they can't find anything from any of them

other than private musings about the existence of a supreme being.

[izquierdista]

15. Fundie personality

Here is a good video explaining it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leBmSTet-NA&feature=PlayList&p=68A3063EC1D016A1&index=8

The rest of his videos are worth watching as well.

[Jokinomx]

38. Exactly!! They only accept that which supports their POV.

It is one of my pet peeves also. But I have come to a great truth about many religious people. They really don't want to know the truth. They only want to hear what they want the world to be. They still think the Earth is only 6 thousand years old... they still believe that some God came to Earth and blew on some dust and made a man. But they can't look at the plethora of evidence that that proves evolution is part of all of living things.

But this one... not allowing a U.S. Citizen to hold office because he acknowledges that he can't accept "believing" in something or someone that can't be proven.

Peace

:toast:

[tblue37]

44. I'm not sure I trust the 5-4 SC balance these days to do the right thing--

I only trust them to do the right wing thing.

[struggle4progress]

59. The issue was decided a half century ago. There's no court case here, and if there were

the plaintiffs would lose long before they got to SCOTUS

[Echo In Light]

8. We want theocracy & we want it now!

[Soylent Brice]

13. the morans of Ashville can eat it. props to the people of Asheville that voted for him. n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

14. +100

:thumbsup:

[ensho]

16. the religiously insane have no business in politics

hang in there Cecil

[rd_kent]

22. It can be argued that all relgious ARE insane!

And yes, any religious person has no place in politics. If you are unable to separate your faith from your duty as an elected official, you should be barred from office.

[SkyDaddy7]

67. I could not agree more!!!

I am so sick and tired of watching the insanity of religion play out in American public like a bunch of children talking about Santa! From Tim Tebow with Bible Verses plastered on his face to the idea that (Un)Intelligent Design is science. I place most of the blame on the so-called moderates who really don't believe the Bronze Age crap in the Bible but they call themselves Christians to fit in. Oh well...If shit does not turn around we will end up with Sarah Palin as POTUS and a theocracy!

[dmallind]

17. But this cannot be!

I am reliably informed on DU that Christians don't want to reduce any of the rights of atheists.

[Iggo]

19. Yes. Surely there must be some mistake.

I'm pretty sure xtians don't want to reduce the rights of any of our fine citizens, including atheists.

[rd_kent]

23. uh, yeah, and I have some beachfront property in Nebrasks to sell you.

Reducing the rights of non-followers IS their mission.

[slackmaster]

18. I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that Article 6, Section 8 of the VA constitution...

Violates the First Amendment of the federal Constitution.

Also, Article IV, section 2 of the federal Constitution says:

"The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states."

[rd_kent]

26. That meaning escapes me.

Maybe its just too early, but I dont follow that last part. How has that been interpreted?

[slackmaster]

37. As I read it, since you are immune from a religious litmus test to hold federal office,

You should also be immune from such a test for a state office.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

48. Also the supremacy clause.

As well as the privileges and immunities clause.

[StarfarerBill]

20. I remember Cecil Bothwell being mentioned when I lived in Asheville ten years ago.

Go, Cecil!

:applause:

[Bitwit1234]

21. Well now

if the right wing religious nuts don't like the results of a legal and open election, then they think they can go to court and get it changed. That's republican's views of America for you. Steal it and if that don't work, try to get the court to change it. Hey didn't that happen in 2000. Old Katherine Harris made it possible and where is she now. No one has heard from her in years. One thing about republicans they support their own don't they.

[rd_kent]

24. Its funny how they rail against "legislating from the bench" yet challenge things like this in court

in an effort to get it done their way.

[rd_kent]

27. kick

[SteveG]

28. SCOTUS already decided this in 1961

in TORCASO v. WATKINS, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=367&invol=488

[rd_kent]

29. Well someone needs to tell North Carolina that...

and a handful of other states that still have similar laws on the books.

[struggle4progress]

58. The provision is unenforceable, and nobody has made any serious effort to enforce it

[Le Taz Hot]

65. That's when we had a REAL SCOTUS.

What we have now is largely partisan hacks, at least 2 of which were/are COMPLETELY unqualified to have sat on the bench of Small Claims Court, much less the Supreme Court.

[Javaman]

30. I truly hope this goes to the supreme court...

And once it's shown via the Constitution that these religious nuts can go fuck off, I will then consider a run for local office here in Texas.

Me, being an Atheist, doesn't make me the most popular guy on the block.

[Lyric]

31. It's just hot air. They can't keep him out of office.

Article VI, section III of the Constitution:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_religious_test_clause

[Hosnon]

35. They can't keep him out of office, but likely because of the Ist Amendment, not Article VI.

As you can see from the section you quoted, the phrase "and of the several States" was not included after "United States" in the second clause. That implies that Article VI, section III, only forbids such religious tests for offices of the federal government, not the state governments.

The Ist Amendment, incorporated via the XIV Amendment, is the likely source of the unconstitutionality of such religious tests with regard to state offices (see, Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961) (referenced in this thread)).

[mitchum]

32. May they all soon be with their precious lord

[ChickMagic]

33. I thought they believe God decides elections

Haven't they always said, "God put him/her there?"
So if their God put an atheist there, why would they
presume to know God's mind?

[G_j]

34. I know Cecil, he is an awesome person

and one of most progressive voices to ever be elected to the city council in Asheville.

[krabigirl]

36. This is outrageous...I hate the Taliban in this country.

[sixmile]

39. K&R for the forward-thinking voters of Asheville!

I believe it has a vibrant art-centric community?

[G_j]

40. this book certainly ruffled some feathers here, as Graham lives in the area:

http://bothwellsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/hello-world/


The Prince of War: Billy Graham’s Crusade for a Wholly Christian Empire
by Cecil Bothwell
Brave Ulysses Books, 2007

[rd_kent]

41. kick

[SidDithers]

42. K&R...

hope his election starts the cascade that wipes out discriminatory language in state constitutions.

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions.htm

Sid

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Bring it on.

Fuckers.

[NMMNG]

46. So much for the oft made claim that there's no bigotry/discrimination

against atheists in America.....

[Goldstein1984]

47. Religion and democracy are incompatible

Religion, taken to its logical conclusion, in only compatible with theocracy. The flock doesn't elect the shepherd. So it shouldn't be a surprise that a religious minority is attempting to overturn a democratic election--it's part of a national agenda. That's what "The Family" is all about--power with or without democracy.

[GreenPartyVoter]

50. You are assuming all religions and their followers want to take over their government. Many of us

abhor the idea of the two being meshed together.

[Goldstein1984]

52. That's true...

I was too severe and too general in my comment. Forgive me, I'm still recovering from eight years of borderline theocracy, and we're all fighting an oligarchy. But there are those in this country who are, for all practical purposes, the American Taliban. It is them, and the 'moderates' who tacitly support them, that I was writing about. I should have written--Democracy and theocracy are incompatible.

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. I hear that! We are definitely allies in the fight to keep religion out of our government. :^) And

welcome to DU. I checked your profile to see if you were new or a lurker. (I always feel embarrassed welcoming someone who has been here longer than me. :blush:) I saw that you like photography. Have I seen you in that DU group yet?

[Goldstein1984]

55. Very new to DU

No, I'm very new to DU, although I've been following the website for few months. I'll be checking out the groups as quickly as I get settled in. I need to make a donation and get fully functional. This is a great group of people from what I see so far.

While I've voted and written to my representatives most of my life, I've only recently started getting more aggressive about things. I have three children and three grandchildren, and I'm ashamed of the world they are inheriting from my generation.

Further, I find that this nation is on a path I cannot support. I've been an Independent for years, but over the past nine years I've come to the conclusion that the Democratic Party must be based on something other than democracy.

Thanks for the welcome! Good to be here.

[GreenPartyVoter]

56. Definitely come on over to the photography group. I am a recent

addition there myself, but I have always participated in voting in their monthly photo polls. Now I am even more into it because my little boy and I (and soon my husband) have been participating. :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. Sounds like the state constitution is unconstitutional and needs an overhaul.

[snake in the grass]

51. k/r

[lildreamer316]

53. OMG he wrote a book about Billy Graham? Gonna have to get that one!

WOW! Someone in my state has balls!! Who knew?

[pleah]

62. K&R

[Odin2005]

66. In much of the country it's still OK to harrass and intimidate us Atheists.

Disgusting.

[surrealAmerican]

69. How long has that article been in the state constitution?

I agree that it is in violation of the federal constitution, and should be challenged and removed.

[BolivarianHero]

70. He won a fair election...

More than can be said for Dumbo the Smirking Chimp.

[rd_kent]

71. kick