NJ Gay Marriage Bill- Proof there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats

[NJmaverick]

If this bill passes the NJ Legislator its success or failure will hinge on if the Democrat is still governor or the Republican has taken over. Repuke Christie has made it clear he will not sign any bill that allows Gays equal rights. So all of you preaching that there is no difference between a Democrat or Republican take heed of this much needed lesson.

[hfojvt]

1. boy are you gonna get unrecced

saying positive things about Democrats is soooo 2005

[NJmaverick]

2. You're right, facts and reason have become very unpopular here at DU

or maybe it's gay marriage that's unpopular.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I'll add, those people who've decided to sit out elections will perpetuate this crap.

I don't know which makes me angrier, the lazy fools who just never vote, or the narrow-minded left-leaners who get pissed off over how things are and decide to sit out an election in protest.

Recommended.

[NJmaverick]

5. True the protestors who sit because they feel their votes can not make a difference

are also self defeating.

[readmoreoften]

8. I'll add that those who vote for right-wing politicians under the guise of being "Democrats"

have caused this problem to begin with. And I include myself in that condemnation.

[ClarkUSA]

4. Anyone who thinks there isn't a difference is an idiot who has a bitter agenda.

It's sad that DU needs a reminder.

Thanks for posting the truth. It's so refreshing.

[Dragonfli]

6. Funny how my NYS Senate (controlled by Democrats) voted AGAINST gay marriage (not the same)

Just the same results sad to say.
But at least they pretend to give a shit, I guess they should be supported just for the pretense.

Nice example, but easy to find examples of the opposite of your premise, so it is a rather weak argument.

I will pretend it is brilliant if you like.

[rockymountaindem]

7. Incorrect. The opposite of this premise would be if a Republican state government

granted gay marriage rights. The fact that a Democratic legislature in NY did not does not refute the fact that if you're in the LGBT community and you want to get married, your odds are far better under Democrats.

[Toasterlad]

11. That Should Be The Democratic Slogan: "Your Odds Are Better With Us!"

THERE'S that hope and change.

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

16. We're just going to keep running on "Hey, at least we're not them!".

The landslide victories will come pouring in!

[tekisui]

31. Vote Democrat: We're Not Republicans!

[rockymountaindem]

17. Well, at least that's an undeniable fact

If I were gay, I'd rather take my 50/50 odds with the Democrats then get continually nowhere with Republican government on this issue.

[NJmaverick]

30. The odds are more like 75/25 in favor

after all the Dems voted 24-8 in favor of gay marriage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/nyregion/03marriage.html

[Toasterlad]

35. And Yet Same-Sex Marriage Isn't Legal In 3/4 Of the Country.

Or even in most places where Democrats hold a majority.

You should reevaluate your fractions.

[NJmaverick]

37. The problem is there is a sizeable republican representation that defeats the Dem majority

if the Dems were near unanimous in their support of Same-sex marriage they might be able to defeat the GOP near unanimous opposition, but at this point they can't. Still it's pretty clear which side should be getting our support.

[Toasterlad]

42. I Don't Support "Sides", I Support Equality.

If you're not pro-equality, you're not getting my time, money, or vote. I don't care WHAT letter comes after your name.

[NJmaverick]

43. It's a matter of a means to the end

in order to achieve the end (Equality), we need to support the means (the Democrats).

[Toasterlad]

44. The Dems Have By and Large Proved They're NOT the Means.

A majority in the Senate. A majority in the House. A Democrat in the White House. And they still can't get a fucking thing done.

I'm a registered Independent for a reason. I don't put my faith in parties. I put my faith in people who deserve it. If that person's a Democrat, fine. If not, that's fine, too.

[27inCali]

29. Most Dems are there -you got a few dumbshit holdouts

you gotta keep working them, keep trying to find good Liberal alternatives to challenge them in the primaries and move them left.

[NJmaverick]

26. The Dems voted 24-8 in favor of the measure

based on the calculations I did from here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/nyregion/03marriage.html

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. 7 democrats voted agains. ALL republicans voted against. there is a clear difference

[Unvanguard]

41. Controlled by one vote. And EVERY Republican voted against equality. n/t

[FreeState]

9. It may not pass the Senate - and if it does not it is the Democrats fault then?

Seriously just like in NY there are Democrats that are bigots. Unfortunately our party is full of them too.

[NJmaverick]

27. In NY the Dems voted 24-8 in favor of the measure

So while the Dems are not perfect, they sure seemed to be pretty good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/nyregion/03marriage.html

[tabbycat31]

10. I went to my Senator's office today

and I told them that if Sen Kean voted yes on the bill, then I'd be willing to vote Republican for the first time in my life

[Toasterlad]

12. I Can Give You Tons of Examples of Democrats Who Vote Against Gays.

What's your point again?

I'll vote for any candidate who is pro-equality. I don't give a shit if it's a Democrat or a Republican.

[cali]

13. Here, let me explain it to you.

There are very few if any Republicans, let alone prominent repubs who support marriage equality or any fucking rights for GLBT folks. There are quite a few dems who do. It was a dem legislature in VT that passed marriage equality and overrode a veto. It was dem legislatures in NH and ME who passed marriage equality. Dems such as Corzine and Leahy support marriage equality. Most of the Progressive Caucus support it. ENDA passed because of dems. Get the picture?

[FreeState]

19. All of those passed because of GOP help

There are very few if any Republicans, let alone prominent repubs who support marriage equality or any fucking rights for GLBT folks. There are quite a few dems who do.

But not enough or we would be equal under the law already.

It was a dem legislature in VT that passed marriage equality and overrode a veto.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/blog/politics/2009/03/first-vote-is-unanimous-on-gay-marriage.html - with GOP help in comity and the vote

Override with help of 6 Republicans: http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20090408/NEWS03/904080346

It was dem legislatures in NH

Democrats were joined by about a dozen Republicans in passing the bill http://www.anglicansunited.com/?p=14287

and ME who passed marriage equality.

7 Republicans helped: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/5/728081/-Maine-House-passes-same-sex-marriage-bill,-89-57

---

It was not just Dems who did this - without GOP support in all of those they would have never passed.

[cali]

23. uh, the Vermont legislation certainly would have passed without repubs though

the override needed those paltry few repub votes- which is exactly the point that I was making.

[FreeState]

38. Your point stands for Vermont only - not the other states - making your point mute n/t

[FreeState]

45. Moot -sorry missed the typo until it was too late:) n/t

[Toasterlad]

33. And the Democratic President Is Against Equality.

So who cares about Democrat or Republican? So what if there are more Democrats than Republicans who support equality? Until you can tell me that ALL Democrats support equality, I'll continue to evaluate each candidate on an individual basis rather than blindly vote for someone just because they have a D after their name.

[FreeState]

14. +100 n/t

[NJmaverick]

24. The point is there is an anti GLBT American agenda that is endorsed by the GOP

The Dems, while not perfect, will generally support equal rights for all. Although they are hesitant to risk or sacrifice their careers in furthering the cause (which can be considered a fault or just a pragmatic judgment that it is better to be able to push some good than being on the outside not being able to do anything).

[Forkboy]

15. The Parties are very different on social issues. Corporate issues not so much.

[NJmaverick]

18. I am one of those that think social issues matter

So I think there is a big difference

[Forkboy]

20. Well I am too. Yay for us!

Doesn't change point two though. We have one party that's all bad and one that's half bad. I'm so excited to vote again!

[NJmaverick]

21. Half a sandwich is better than none, in my book

[Forkboy]

22. Yeah, but you'll still be hungry at the end of the day.

[NJmaverick]

25. Not as hungry than if I had passed up the half a sandwich

[Forkboy]

28. What if you have to share the sandwich with family?

And then your insurance company wants a slice?

[NJmaverick]

32. Well if it is a baloney sandwich things should be golden

:shrug:

[Forkboy]

34. That's not being very intellectually honest.

What really happens when people are being forced to make a decision not that far removed from our little humorous exchange here? We keep asking people to cut that half a sandwich up into smaller and smaller pieces. Pretty soon they won't have anything left but crumbs. In many ways your OP is telling people that's good enough, because it would be even worse under Republicans. And you're right that it would be worse, but that doesn't mean people should settle for crumbs just because it's better, know what I mean?

[NJmaverick]

36. I think we are talking about two different things

There is a world a difference between people who don't agree with a Democratic politician and use constructive means of pressuring in the desired direction and those that just want to slash and burn. We have seen polls here that suggest better than 30% of DUers will not vote for our Democratic President in 2012. We have seen others unrec good news that would put the President in a good light. We have seen others that are giving up on the Democratic party.


For those that want to pressure, in a non-destructive manner, our Democratic politicians, I say go for it. Those that want to talk about how Obama/the Dems have lost them or how Obama/the Dems are no better than the GOP, my message is for them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. Yes, there is a lot of difference between democrats and republicans

by and large.. esp in blue states