Menorah becomes issue in Florida town

[The Straight Story]

Menorah becomes issue in Florida town


DELRAY BEACH, Fla., Dec. 9 (UPI) -- A Florida town's decision to put up a Christmas tree this year but no menorah has angered many residents.

Officials in Delray Beach say the major issue is whether the menorah, the nine-branched candelabrum associated with the Jewish festival of Hanukkah, is a religious symbol, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported. In the past, Delray Beach has put up menorahs on public property along with the Christmas tree.

David Harden, the city manager, said Delray Beach might have to open up its public spaces to all kinds of symbols if it allows religious ones, granting requests from groups like the Ku Klux Klan.

The Hanukkah menorah has one taller branch in the middle and eight smaller ones on the sides.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/12/09/Menorah-becomes-issue-in-Florida-town/UPI-85911260387500/

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Then they better be calling the tree a Holiday Tree.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. And of course, a Christ-mass tree is NOT a religious symbol. nt

[Oregone]

10. It sorta isn't

Well, I guess it is as much as a cigar is a symbol of a penis. I guess it all depends on the beholder.

But, it isn't like they were hacking down fir trees in the Middle East thousands of years ago to celebrate the birth of Christ (which just happens to coincide with the winter solstice). Maybe that whole tree thing comes from an entirely different holiday, and an entirely different culture, which the Christians have attempted to absorb. But when I see a tree, the last thing I think about is Mesopotamian fairy tales

[Kerrytravelers]

3. Are they aware of what Christmas is?

For crying out loud. If you have a Christmas tree, why wouldn't you have a Menorah? I'm also in favor of having a representation of Kwanzza, too, although that is more cultural than religious. Why not?

[AspenRose]

4. Bah, humbug.

[fizzgig]

5. that debate raged in my city for a few years

and it became a big enough deal to warrant a story or two in the NYT and bloviating by bill o'reilly. as far as i can tell, the refusal to include a menorah in a holiday display is contrary to a scotus ruling that determined menorahs to be secular symbols if they are part of a non-religious display, just as christmas trees.

i have no idea if my city has included a menorah in it's holiday display. in previous years, the owner of a restaurant in town allowed the menorah to be displayed on his patio, but i haven't heard anything about it this year.

[asjr]

6. Ah, yes, Peace on Earth, Good Will to All.

[RKP5637]

7. Maybe WalMart can invent/market "The Universal Christmas Tree!" Seems a capitalistic

way to solve the problem, make hoards more money off Christmas and promote more greed.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Silly.

CHANUKAH AT RIVERWALK CELEBRATES 20 YEARS AT SPANISH PLAZA ON DECEMBER 13
Chabad-Lubavitch’s Chanukah Event Features Music, Food and Menorah Lighting


New Orleans, La. (October 5, 2009) – On Sunday, December 13, 2009 from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m., celebrate the holiday season at Riverwalk Marketplace with Chabad-Lubavitch of Louisiana for the annual Chanukah at Riverwalk celebration. This December will be the 20th year Riverwalk has hosted the Chanukah menorah lighting ceremony on Spanish Plaza.

Chanukah at Riverwalk features traditional Israeli music, dancing, food and the lighting of the 12-foot menorah. The event is free and open to the public.

“For 20 years now, Riverwalk’s Spanish Plaza has been the home for Chabad-Lubavtich’s Chanukah at Riverwalk,” says Lynn Walters, senior general manager of Riverwalk Marketplace. “This celebration has become an important part of our annual holiday events calendar as well as, a wonderful time for the community to gather along the Mississippi to share in celebrating the holiday season.”

http://www.neworleanscvb.com/articles/index.cfm/action/view/articleID/4065/typeID/24

[Vickers]

9. I've never seen the menorah, but Delray Beach puts up a HUGE tree each year.

I'm guessing it's about 100' tall.

[madfloridian]

11. Festivus for the rest of us.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2951

[Javaman]

12. I can't wait for the airing of grievances!!! I have a bone to pick with a lot of people!!! nt

[madfloridian]

16. Don't even get me started this year.

:evilgrin:

[yellowcanine]

13. I don't see a Christmas tree as a religious symbol regardless of what it is called.

In fact, some Christian groups do not have Christmas trees because it is considered a secular symbol if not outright pagan.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

14. Christmas trees are pagan, definitely.

And there is nothing original or special about Christmas or Jesus. He's just like Mithra and Apollo and Tammuz and other gods who were all born of a virgin on December 25th.

I think we should have a winter toga party for Saturnalia, the Roman solstice celebration. I learned about that in Latin Class in high school.


:D

[yellowcanine]

15. I would think Yule logs and mistle toe would clinch the argument that this is a pagan holiday

at the core. The baby Jesus was an add on. The Church saw a chance to lure people away from their traditional pagan holiday and replace it with a religious holiday. And note that the other major Christian holiday - Easter, occurs near the Spring Equinox and has its own set of pagan symbols - Easter Bunny, eggs, etc.

[ChickMagic]

17. I'm sick to death of phony Christians dictating who and who can't display their religion

Here's a little bible study for them:

Jeremiah 10
1 Hear ye the word which Jehovah speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 thus saith Jehovah, Learn not the way of the nations, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are like a palm-tree, of turned work, and speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.

6 There is none like unto thee, O Jehovah; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

7 Who should not fear thee, O King of the nations? for to thee doth it appertain; forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their royal estate, there is none like unto thee.

8 But they are together brutish and foolish: the instruction of idols! it is but a stock.

9 There is silver beaten into plates, which is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the artificer and of the hands of the goldsmith; blue and purple for their clothing; they are all the work of skilful men.

10 But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations are not able to abide his indignation.

[liberal_at_heart]

18. This guy sounds very contradictory

The city manager says if they allow religious symbols then they'll have allow other symbols as well like from the Ku Klux Klan? What does this "have to open up its public spaces to all kinds of symbols" mean? So is he for or against non-religious symbols? According to what he is arguing he should not be allowing religious or non-religious symbols which whether you consider it Christian or pagan would rule out the Christmas tree. How about a Solstice symbol or a Kwanza symbol? They're not technically religious so would he allow them? This is just a stupid attemp to keep anything that isn't Christian out of the town square. I wish the Christians would understand that it is this exclusion of other religious and cultural celebrations that causes the very backlash or war on Christmas they keep griping about.