Markos Moulitsas (DailyKos) comes out AGAINST Senate Health Plan on Olbermann

[Techn0Girl]

From :
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/markos-moulitsas-insurance-companies-claim

Moulitsas: I think I would have to see the details to really have a full understanding of what's going on but I've been under the assumption for a while that the Senate is the non-functioning governmental body. It cannot do its job which is to reform and improve the lives of Americans.

It is broken and it's completely bought and paid for by the insurance companies and I think it's indicative that we just found out today that the insurance companies are claiming victory on this battle --supposedly not over -- they're already claiming victory because they're going to have a mandate forcing people to buy their crappy products with few restrictions on their ability to do the sort of business practices, the unethical business practices that have created this problem in the first place.

Olbermann: Any hope in that Medicare buy-in?

Moulitsas: Well the initial reports are that it's what, 50, 55?

Olbermann: 55.

Moulitsas: Yeah, 55. It doesn't do anybody under 55 any good and in fact what it seems to do is it takes away some of the most expensive potential customers from the insurance companies, the older, and gives them, basically off to the government. So we need something that applies to all Americans, not just the elderly.

Earlier today Jane Hamsher of FiredogLake came out with a statement decrying the new bill as well

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/09/obama-fail/

[Major Hogwash]

1. Jane Hamsher is pretty damned good at this stuff.

I wish she would get on tv more often.

[Neecy]

2. 55 is elderly?

Otherwise, I'm in agreement.

[emulatorloo]

4. How do you know? "I think I would have to see the details to really have a full understanding"

Do you have the details? Does Markos?

This was last night when they had nothing but speculation.

More details from today:

Howard Dean: We Can Do Both (and other reaction to the Senate health care deal)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x47704

[Neecy]

6. calm down.

[emulatorloo]

10. I'm calm -- it is strange for DU to wanna get fired up over yesterday's talking out of one's ass

TODAY:

Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., called it "an unvarnished, complete victory for people like me who have been arguing for a single-payer system."




Senate Compromise On Health Care Gaining Support

DAVID ESPO | 12/ 9/09 07:08 PM |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/09/senate-compromise-on-heal_n_385813.html

[Neecy]

12. you're spamming

[emulatorloo]

14. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on DU.

[Neecy]

15. posting the same link over and over

...is spamming.

[emulatorloo]

19. So are we going to throw Howard Dean, Bernie Sanders, and Anthony Weiner under the bus

because Markos made an uninformed comment on Countdown 24 hours ago?

And because you think you have "caught" me at something?

If you want to work yourself into a tizzy over 24 hours old "commentary" based on no facts, then knock yourself out.

I will reserve the right to post more current commentary. By people who know the details.

[Neecy]

24. Fine, post it

But you've spammed just about every thread here, sometimes more than once. Makes you look desperate and panicked, ya know?

[Techn0Girl]

26. Please don't turn this thread into a "I have to get the last word" in thing , OK? :)

[emulatorloo]

29. you can have the last word for sure!

:hi:

[emulatorloo]

30. Self delete, weirdo DU glitch double thingy

:hi:

[emulatorloo]

27. Not really. Just tired of DU repeating the same old pattern. inflammatory story, freak out, debunked

24 hrs later,

It is a pattern that is pretty tiresome.

Something inflammatory gets posted, people get all crazed over it, 24 hours later it is debunked.

Usually it comes from Politico.

I would be more interested in what Markos has to say today, than what he said 24 hrs ago with no information. (I see he did a post at 8:00 AM with a similar tone)

You could tell by watching it that he was taken by surprise when Keith reported the news from an AP story that a compromise had been reached.

[Luminous Animal]

18. Wiener is not even making sense.

If you agree with him, how about explaining to me how this Senate bill is a victory for single-payer advocates?

[pscot]

32. All politicians have some dervish in them

Weiner has been good on HCR, but that statement seems a tad hyperbolic.

[Thickasabrick]

8. LOL....caught my eye too - he's right on about everything else. nt

[emulatorloo]

3. "I think I would have to see the details" - So, has he seen the details yet?

That was last night, they only had speculation.

Howard Dean says it is real reform:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7191283

Also

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x47704

[bridgit]

5. Now there's a youthful opinion, gotta love a guy that thinks 55 is "elderly"

[Thrill]

7. Why does Bernie Sanders like it?

I value Bernie's opinion on this stuff

[Davis_X_Machina]

9. Bernie's a tool of the insurance companies.

I mean, it must be so, I read it on D(K)U.

[emulatorloo]

13. LOL - Weiner, D-N.Y., called it "an unvarnished, complete victory for people like me [single payer]

Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., called it "an unvarnished, complete victory for people like me who have been arguing for a single-payer system."

Guess he is an insurance co tool too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/09/senate-compromise-on-heal_n_385813.html

[Luminous Animal]

20. Explain it to. Use simple words if you have to.

How is the Senate bill and complete victory for people like Anthony?

[emulatorloo]

23. No doubt he will be on Rachel Maddow show to respond, she seems to have him on a lot.

If he doesn't clarify it there, there is always his office.

It is an AP story (not huffpo original), you know how poorly they write.

[Davis_X_Machina]

11. They more or less have to, don't they?

Who elevated the public option -- no matter how neutered -- into the yardstick by which any deal would be judged? Who decided that a plan without a public option -- no matter what improvement over the status quo it entailed -- was unacceptable?

They can't climb down now -- their credibility would be destroyed.

[Techn0Girl]

16. The Latest meme going around is "Howard Dean and Bernie sanders like it!"

It might as well be a talking point.
Well they may well like it - or they may well be just experienced politicos with a bigger agenda.

But both those guys have beautiful health insurance plans. Me? I'm going to be the one who has to pay an additional $3000 $4000 or more out of my pocket for some third rate plan by Aetna or Blue Cross - because that's exactly what this new bill is going to do to me and most everyone reading this.

If I got laid off from work and need to skip on health insurance in order to buy food for me an my kids - Guess WHat? I can't under this bill - I will be required to give Aetna their 3 or 4 grand pound of flesh or else face a federal penalty of about a grand.

Great bill.

[Neecy]

17. +1

[emulatorloo]

22. Cool throw Dean and Sanders under the bus

[Matariki]

25. You'll have to skip healthcare for food, pay a grand, and STILL be without healthcare.

Really brilliant, isn't it.

I'm arguing with fools who keep telling me there will be 'subsidies'. But they have no idea how low a person's income has to be to qualify and seem to think everyone else can afford those thousands of dollars a year without any problem.

I actually read that the cap on an individual plan will be $5000. $10,000 for a family. So I think your $3000-$4000 is actually optimistic.

[Techn0Girl]

28. Yes - this is a windfall for Health Insurance Corporations...

I posted a link to the actual payments after subsidies some time ago. What I recall is that with the subsidy, a single person making 24,000 a year would still have to pay about 2000 a year for a plan with a 2000 deductible on it. Higher wages were charged substantially more.

So I'm on unemployment right now and I can't to pay for afford health insurance. My unemployment pays about 24,000 a year. I'm barely making rent and food where I live.

Under this new plan people like me would be forced to take another 200 bucks a month out of their income for tribute to Aetna for a plan that won't pay me a dime until I pay out another 2000 bucks first.

How is that helping me exactly?

[Matariki]

31. laugingliberal just posted a very good breakdown of who would get a subsidy

and what it means for the rest of us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7189836&mesg_id=7191873

Actually, it deserves to be it's own post.

[Techn0Girl]

33. Thank you for that link - Eye Opening....

Great link - here is the scary pary ...
"Those who earn up to 400% of the poverty level will get subsidies to offset premiums costs so they do not exceed 10-12% of their income"

So this bill requires ALL of us currently uninsured, making 43K or below to tithe the insurance industry to the tune of 10% of our incomes .

Another knife in the back to the middle class and another billion dollar round of bonuses to these assholes.

[walldude]

21. K&R.. that report was the catalyst for a thread I wrote today..

about lowering our expectations..