On eve of receiving Nobel, Obama's DOJ files amicus brief upending Nuremberg Protocols.

[kpete]

The Obama Administration has filed a brief that brushes over the war crimes aspects of Yoo’s work at the Justice Department. Instead, it insists that attorneys must be free to give advice — even if it is to establish a torture program.

It is important to note that the Administration did not have to file this brief since it had withdrawn as counsel and paid for Yoo’s private counsel. It has decided that it wants to establish the law claimed by the Bush Administration protecting Justice officials who support alleged war crimes. They are effectively doubling down by withdrawing as counsel and then reappearing as a non-party amicus.

The Obama Administration has gutted the hard-fought victories in Nuremberg where lawyers and judges were often guilty of war crimes in their legal advice and opinions. The third of the twelve trials for war crimes involved 16 German jurists and lawyers. Nine had been officials of the Reich Ministry of Justice, the others were prosecutors and judges of the Special Courts and People’s Courts of Nazi Germany. It would have been a larger group but two lawyers committed suicide before trial: Adolf Georg Thierack, former minister of justice, and Carl Westphal, a ministerial counsellor.

.................

If successful in this case, the Obama Administration will succeed in returning the world to the rules leading to the war crimes at Nuremberg. Quite a legacy for the world’s newest Nobel Peace Prize winner."

more:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/10/812675/-On-eve-of-receiving-Nobel,-Obamas-DOJ-files-amicus-brief-upending-Nuremberg-Protocols.-

[Le Taz Hot]

1. K & R

Before the pom pom phalanx shows up.

[frylock]

46. they must be awaiting their talking points..

because this has been up for 6 hours now, and nary a peep from the crew. i'd feel sorry for them if what wasn't for the non-stop self-righteous bullkrap they spew. but it has to be a trying period for them, what with all they've invested emotionally in this sham.

[Dr.Phool]

82. They're busy infesting other threads.

I haven't noticed "ignore" until about an hour ago.

[elocs]

154. Shhhh... He's only been in office for 11 months. Nasty Obama haters!

You know, I'm about cleansed of any expectations by this point, so things can only get better. Well maybe not.

[unhappycamper]

2. I have been quite critical of the Obama administration for covering up for torturers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture

Article 2 sez it all:

Article 2 of the convention prohibits torture, and requires parties to take effective measures to prevent it in any territory under its jurisdiction. This prohibition is absolute and non-derogable. "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever"<5> may be invoked to justify torture, including war, threat of war, internal political instability, public emergency, terrorist acts, violent crime, or any form of armed conflict.<6> Torture cannot be justified as a means to protect public safety or prevent emergencies.<6> Neither can it be justified by orders from superior officers or public officials.<7> The prohibition on torture applies to all territories under a party's effective jurisdiction, and protects all people under its effective control, regardless of citizenship or how that control is exercised.<6> Since the Conventions entry into force, this absolute prohibition has become accepted as a principle of customary international law.<6>

Because it is often difficult to distinguish between cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment and torture, the Committee regards Article 16's prohibition of such treatment as similarly absolute and non-derogable.<6>

The other articles of part I lay out specific obligations intended to implement this absolute prohibition by preventing, investigating and punishing acts of torture.<6>

[BeFree]

13. How could they?

What twisted fucks they are to act this way. If this is the kind of fascists that inhabit the core of our government, we need a revolution that disposes of them once and for all, and sends a message to the future that says never again.

[Overseas]

109. Me too. So that amicus brief really hit me like a ton of bricks.

So many of my cherished dreams of change are being slashed away.

Becoming accountable for the torture committed by the Bush Gang in our name would be a valuable cleansing process for the nation.

We would not be playing fake bipartisan capitulation and begging for some miserly public option from legislators that are beholden to the private insurers they pretend to regulate.

War crimes were committed in our name. Again. But a whole mess of them, documented and displayed to the whole world. Involving crimes for which others had been executed before. Nuremberg.

I would further assert that had we embarked on such a process it would be easier to make the other profound changes our people and planet need.

[Enthusiast]

162. Big deal!

People like you, all concerned about torture and such, are nothing but a tiny fringe of far leftists.

:spank:
















:sarcasm:

[Overseas]

176. That sure is how it feels sometimes.

Or maybe I'm quaint.
Didn't someone call the Geneva Conventions quaint?

[Enthusiast]

177. Someone did, probably Cheney.

Of course he never had to live with that kind of sentiment with his deferments. Typical RW asshole chickenhawk.

[Overseas]

180. Speaking of chickenhawks, time to plumb the NH Gazette database again

* George Will, did not serve
* Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve. (However, apparently served in the Peace Corps.)
* Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
* Paul Gigot, did not serve.
* Bill Bennett, Did not serve
* Pat Buchanan, did not serve
* Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' )
* Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji
* John Wayne, did not serve
* Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer."
* Bill Kristol, did not serve
* Sean Hannity, did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr, did not serve
* Antonin Scalia, did not serve
* Clarence Thomas, did not serve
* Ralph Reed, did not serve
* Michael Medved, did not serve
* Charlie Daniels, did not serve
* Ted Nugent, did not serve
* Country Singer Toby Keith, did not serve. (1)
* Radio Host Phil Hendrie, did not serve.


http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

[Enthusiast]

181. A list of the biggest

loudmouth war cheerleaders out there.

[FiveGoodMen]

179. "Didn't someone call the Geneva Conventions quaint?"

I think it was Barack W Obama.

[Overseas]

182. More like Rummy.

But I still am stunned by that amicus brief. And long for a more thorough repudiation of the crimes of the prior administration. Or at least and intense Truth & Reconciliation Commission.

And yet--
President O took over a government whose legislative body did not impeach the prior administration even after the revelations of Abu Ghraib. The US Congress had not impeached the Bush Gang. Even after they had trampled the Geneva Protocols.

That's what he walked in to.
That would give me pause too.

But at least one could refrain from the appearance of condoning such behavior.

I'd love to see a more thorough disassociation with the practices of the brutal bungling Bush Gang.

[Enthusiast]

183. At least it would make us feel better.

"I'd love to see a more thorough disassociation with the practices of the brutal bungling Bush Gang."

[Solly Mack]

3. K&R

[Libertas1776]

4. What does Obama plan on "doing"

during his administration that requires he upend Nuremberg Protocols? What is this some sort or preemptive legal shield for war crimes yet to be committed? I am so fucking disgusted.

[snagglepuss]

58. Excellent question. nt

[TBF]

77. Well it's not like Bagram is covered by due process -

its anyone's guess as to what they're doing there. Business as usual ...

[cui bono]

96. Thom Hartmann thinks that Obama won't go after them because

he doesn't want them coming after him.

I say then don't do anything wrong! Although we have seen what the right will do with the Clinton impeachment. Still... he signed up for this when he ran for office. He knew damn well what he was getting into, or he should have, having been in the senate and part of the machine.

Hartmann once said that it's documented that as soon as Clinton was elected/sworn in, don't know which, that Greenspan sat him down and told him okay, here's how things work around here. Hartmann said that's why Clinton turned into a big business guy when he had run as a progressive. Sounds very similar. Perhaps the same is happening now? My feeling is that if it is, and even if he fears assassination, he should speak out and say this is what's really going on in this country. If that is what happened and others are really running things, he should have spoken out about it at the get go when he had an elated public behind him. Might be too late for that now.

Wish he really stood for the people, but we saw from day one that he doesn't. He's clearly with Wall Street etc... and should never be associated with being a constitutional scholar ever again.

[Ken Burch]

127. Then again, Clinton was impeached and it turned out to be no real big deal!

Dude just went on being Prez.

[NoUsername]

143. Oh, he's a Constitutional scholar

and he intends to employ every rule in the book to ensure he can't be accountable for anything. That way, he can give away the farm (like he is doing) and ensure that he will be declared totally innocent should charges ever be brought. IOW, he's doing the same things Bush did but the difference is that when Obama knows what he's doing is illegal, he wants total legal coverage. Bush just charged ahead and assumed that he would be immune. The legal coverage came after the fact. His successor has never seen fit to challenge that. In fact, he has promoted it.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[sabrina 1]

130. When Bush withdrew the US from the CIC, many people

asked the same question. It wasn't long before we got the answer.

[GodlessBiker]

5. Holy crap. The Nazis used lawyers and judges to legalize their crimes. That these lawyers and ...

judges acted within the law of their country didn't make them any less guilty of war crimes.

Another example of how power corrupts.

[snake in the grass]

9. It sure happened quickly this time.

Of all the issues of importance where Obama has failed as a leader, this is the one that really disturbs me. His refusal to go after the war criminals simply leaves the door open for when the next batch of GOP thugs comes into office...and judging by his fecklessness, that won't be too long in the waiting.

[intheflow]

11. Who needs GOP thugs when you've got this shit going on

in a Democratic administration? It really is only one party now.

[GodlessBiker]

14. It is the powerful protecting the formally powerful, so that a future administration...

might remember and protect the current administration for any transgressions.

It's really disgusting.

[snagglepuss]

61. +1

[malaise]

12. +1

That is my worry

[xiamiam]

19. at the point the thugs are not only GOP...nt

[snagglepuss]

59. Bingo. nt

[Bluebear]

145. .

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. It must be part of his complicated chess plan. You know, the one we're too dumb to understand....

[Bluebear]

22. And they are handing out awards for it now.

Best Chess Move Advocating War While Accepting Peace Accolades or something

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

28. Sometimes I really do believe I'm in Wonderland or Nineteen Eighty-Four.

:shrug:
and Bluebear! :hug:

[liberation]

42. Citizen! War is peace...

... and we need to stay longer in order to leave sooner. We also need to send more soldiers to reduce their numbers.

Better watch out what your say, and report to your two minute of fawning over "hope and change" before I notify the thoughtpolice at minipompom (Ministry of Pompom Hurling). And let me assure they are not as compassionate as I am when forcing you to hope for a change!

Carry on...

[eomer]

83. And we put a blood-covered war criminal as our avatar while condemning war crimes! n/t

[liberation]

132. ... don't forget, Che ate babies too.

LOL

[eomer]

175. He executed the grandfather of a girl my kids grew up with.

He executed many other prisoners of war. He also executed men who had joined in while his forces were in their area but wanted to stay behind when Che moved on.

Are you unfamiliar with the facts? I can google and present them to you if you need me to.

[Jamastiene]

157. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.

[Hydra]

50. I've felt like I'm in wonderland for years now

And despite everything, it still looks the same as it did last year.

[truedelphi]

60. !!! But cannot say I disagee with you

Would that title fit on some awards cup?

Better make it the "BCMAWWAPA" which just might fit in...

[newtothegame]

37. I thought it was an intergalactic chess game. I get so confused. n/t

[snake in the grass]

68. Hard at work in the Oval Office...

[MNDemNY]

78. 16 dimensions, donchyaknow!

[Soylent Brice]

7. ...

K&R

[jtrockville]

8. We can no longer claim any moral authority.

If we can justify TORTURE, we can justify anything.

[voc]

156. Not sure we could ever claim moral authority except in our own minds nt.

[intheflow]

10. Now this is some disturbing news.

I've been holding back on criticizing this administration, but this is too much. WTF, Constitutional Lawyer Obama?! What. The. Fuck?! :grr:

[ruggerson]

15. I truly don't know how anyone can defend this n/t

[Bluebear]

23. >>>

_20070109_05_44_45_307-0-0.imageContent

[peacetalksforall]

25. ???

[MNDemNY]

80. Here..

"treestar" is trying.http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7188512#7188542

[spiritual_gunfighter]

98. No surprise at all n/t

[MNDemNY]

104. Yup.

another "dittobagger"

[totodeinhere]

147. I'm waiting to see if anyone tries but so far there have been no takers. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

16. Wow

The precedents of Nuremburg destroyed - quietly and without a peep from the media.

Torture will happen again - there's very little stopping it now.

[tblue]

99. And after torture comes the blowback, justfying more war, more detentions,

more torture. Thanks Obama for making people believe in you. I never did, not 100%.

[Enthusiast]

167. "without a peep from the media"

Yup.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. Who allowed Obama to sleep next to the pod?

[snake in the grass]

27. Good question!

And who's next?

[peacetalksforall]

18. This is better than Cheney got out of his administration. Better for whom?

Not for humanity. Not for history. Not for democracy. And no one ever explains to us what is going on!!!!!!!!! Is this another chess play? What a waste of ability to get where we were and have it tossed by this man.

Unbelievable. Utterly unbelievable.

Did he just lose Jewish Democrats?

What are we all supposed to embrace torture?

When is it going to stop.

This is a have a good bawl about the state of our nation day.

[G_j]

20. OMG, WTF?

I'm speechless

[GodlessBiker]

32. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

21. My father was a WW2 Vet and he taught me that this nation

was defined at Nuremberg.

[Neecy]

24. What's interesting about this....

Is how little Obama is getting in return for letting the Bush-era war criminals walk. All this love and Cheney still openly calls him a traitor.

[G_j]

33. indeed

that is puzzling.
You'd think Cheney would be a bit more.. um.... grateful?

[Enthusiast]

163. It's all part of the act, the smoke screen.

While they have us looking here, they are doing something over there. We are supposed to focus on Cheney's sickening diatribe against the President while ignoring critical issues the M$M won't even touch.

[snagglepuss]

67. THat's a good question. nt

[Lars39]

70. Lives of his familly perhaps?

[liberation]

131. Nah, I think it is all part of the "good cop/bad cop" kabuki the Dems and the GOP have been playing

for a while...

That is the only possibility I can think of. Because so far I see the GOP throwing sucker punch after sucker punch... and the dems "retaliate" by giving everything the GOP wants and more.... to teach them a "lesson."

[tblue]

101. So who's the bigger fool -- Obama or us?

Drip by drip, Obama is killing this party. I'm sorry. I hate to say that, but it's true.

[Romulox]

26. *Check* and *mate* Nobel Committee!

:rofl:

[chill_wind]

29. Emptywheel:

ACLU: “No Prohibition against Monstrous Conduct” without Ajudication of Torture
By: emptywheel Thursday December 10, 2009 8:39 am


The ACLU just finished up a conference call on the status of accountability for torture. Jameel Jaffer talked about accountability generally, Ben Wizner gave an update on the Jeppesen lawsuit (which he will argue next Tuesday, Alex Abdo gave an update on the torture FOIA, and Christopher Anders gave an update on the long-awaited OPR report.

While there were a range of questions, most of the answers converged on one theme best summed up by an answer explaining the cost to our judicial system in holding up the legal judgments on torture. Until we have a binding decision on these cases, Ben Wizner argued, there is “no prohibition against monstrous conduct.”

To a later question, Chris Anders talked about the significant repercussions this has around the world: so long as we don’t hold anyone accountable for torture, then other countries “do not have to be accountable for their actions.”

Here are some comments from Obama’s speech in Oslo today:

To begin with, I believe that all nations — strong and weak alike — must adhere to standards that govern the use of force.

(snip)

Furthermore, America — in fact, no nation — can insist that others follow the rules of the road if we refuse to follow them ourselves.

(snip)

Where force is necessary, we have a moral and strategic interest in binding ourselves to certain rules of conduct. And even as we confront a vicious adversary that abides by no rules, I believe the United States of America must remain a standard bearer in the conduct of war. That is what makes us different from those whom we fight. That is a source of our strength. That is why I prohibited torture. That is why I ordered the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed. And that is why I have reaffirmed America’s commitment to abide by the Geneva Conventions. We lose ourselves when we compromise the very ideals that we fight to defend. (Applause.) And we honor — we honor those ideals by upholding them not when it’s easy, but when it is hard.

Obama talked a lot about consequences today. But he fails to demand any for his own government. And until he does, that means torture will still be used.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/12/10/aclu-no-prohibition-against-monstrous-conduct-without-ajudication-of-torture/

[howmad1]

111. Man, I'd buy a used piece of junk from Obama anytime.

What a friggin sweet talkin' con artist!

[chill_wind]

142. I forgot this part about "Accountability".

First, in dealing with those nations that break rules and laws, I believe that we must develop alternatives to violence that are tough enough to actually change behavior — for if we want a lasting peace, then the words of the international community must mean something. Those regimes that break the rules must be held accountable.

[No Elephants]

30. OMG.

[pleah]

31. K&R

[earth mom]

34. Maybe we should have all seen this coming ever since Pelosi took Impeachment off the table.

Are there any laws or ethics left that the government is even adhering to anymore?

[man4allcats]

75. I thought this as well.

The fix was in at least as far back as '06 and perhaps even well before that. It's sad really.

[earth mom]

136. Yes it's sad, but more than that it's ominous.

:scared:

[Enthusiast]

165. Setting the stage for a

fascist future.

[pberq]

35. First it was more troops to Afghanistan, now this

Of course this has followed more bailouts for Wall Street, lack of reform in health care.
We do not have democracy. Instead, the corporate military industrial complex has taken over the coutry,

[leftstreet]

36. K&R

[FiveGoodMen]

38. Ponies, chess, he knows more than us, only a year, he never said, it's not up to him...

What have I left out?

[harkadog]

40. Said in the campaign he was for the Afghan war ...

That is always brought out.

[freddie mertz]

53. Which excuse torture and war crimes, apparently.

How low can we go?

[frylock]

45. you forgot the reference to president palin..

and "do you think you could do a better job?"

[freddie mertz]

52. Those minions are curiously absent so far.

Still waiting for their talking points from Dick Cheney?

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

148. Here you go

Obama Apologist Bingo

[Starry Messenger]

168. The big ship.

The Titanic that needs turning. :sarcasm:

[Riverman]

39. If Obama stands with and joins in the legal defence of alleged war crimminals

what does that make Obama? A collaborator? A co-conspirator? Dare I say a war crimes accomplice?

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!

I do not support war crimminals, nor their defenders!

Bye Bye Obama - Never Again! Never Again will I support anyone, don't care who you are, where you came from, what race you are, what party you subscribe to, what pretty speaches you make - Not In My Name, Ever, No Matter What!

[Hubert Flottz]

41. I agree..."Never Again"

Edit...Our Misleaders are not just rolling back things to 1946, they are saying that the founder's idea that nobody in this country is above the law is bullshit too.

I will NOT vote for people who uphold the war crimes that Bush and Cheney were involved in. To do so would make me guilty too.

[nicky187]

43. My father ...

... risked his life to fight those war criminals (Pacific Theater).

This just urinated all over his sacrifices, and all over everyone dedicated to basic human rights.

Disgusting. Right down in the gutter with Cheney, et al.

If this is not "enabling" and "abetting" I don't know what is.

Shame on you, Mr. President, and all those involved.

[nicky187]

44. K&R

[laughingliberal]

47. I thought I was beyond shock. I was wrong nt

[depakid]

48. The disgraceful conduct continues at the "Justice" Department

Not much has surprised me about this administration- but the malfeasance and omissions at the DOJ surely has.

History will not be kind in retrospect.

[bertman]

Let's hope history is written somewhere besides in the cloistered confines of the American Empire.

[Echo In Light]

49. "Electable."

[jgraz]

86. Bingo

[freddie mertz]

51. Sickening. I am glad my father, a WW2 vet and lawyer who fought FOR

International laws against torture and the abuse, not only of POWs, but of the mentally ill and other vulnerable persons, never lived to see this NAKED BETRAYAL of all that is good and just by a Democratic administration.

Never again.

[MNDemNY]

54. I'm so fucking proud.

gobama?

[RedCloud]

55. Last train to Nuremberg. All on board!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twfs844nX9Y

[RedCloud]

56. Dupe (of the corporations?) delete

[Senator]

57. Torture Will Be Obama's Only Legacy

Unless and until he stops driving the Torture Getaway Car, the rest is just background noise.

Yes, really.

--

[QC]

62. DALIYKOS HAS ALWAYS HATED OBAMA!1!!1!!!!!!11!!

[Bluebear]

63. He's only been in office ____ months!!!!!!!!1

[QC]

64. Quiet, you! If you had you way, Charles Manson would be president! n/t

[Bluebear]

66. Oh yeah? Well you just want Elizabeth Hasselbeck as commander-in-chief!

[QC]

69. PUMA!

[MNDemNY]

76. Hater!!!1!1!11

[QC]

90. You never say anything good about Him! n/t

[Bluebear]

Stop calling him a janitor. nt

[NMMNG]

150. Ponies!

Ponies with pet issues!

[Bluebear]

178. .

[Jamastiene]

158. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

[Blue Owl]

65. NOT COOL

If we wanted torture to define our foreign policy, we would've elected McCain.

[Metta]

71. A major step in fulfilling the Bush/Cheney dream of a corporate, .i.e., fascist, state.

The latest of several. Happy karma, colluding with war criminals.

[shadesofgray]

72. What a legacy. "Yes, we can make the world safe for war crimes."

[chill_wind]

73. Today is International Human Rights Day

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/12/10/international-human-rights-day-2009

[Dystopian]

88. Unbelievable. More salt in the wound. n/t

peace~

[JCMach1]

74. Makes me feel proud

NOT... what an absolute joke

[OnyxCollie]

79. K&R.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." --Frank Zappa

[Nihil]

110. Warning: Truth spoken in DU GD forum!!!

+++ Out of cheese error +++
+++ Redo from start +++

[Enthusiast]

166. Frank knew. nt

[ima_sinnic]

81. okay, this has gone beyond "disappointing" and "sellout"--this is truly evil

now I am truly frightened at what on earth this trojan horse is really fronting for.

[treestar]

84. If you prosecute lawyers for advice

You open up a real slippery slope.

Are you saying the accused at Nuremberg had no right to a legal defense?

Why not apply that to drunk drivers - or those accused of it? You know, how can you defend drunk drivers? Or child molesters?

This is not one worth hitching your star to - you know that let's find what Obama could be doing wrong wagon.

Yoo may have tortured legal logic to get to his advice, but Bushco doesn't get to skate. They didn't have to follow his "advice." Much like, if you went to a lawyer who advised you that you could get away with something illegal, you don't get to just do it because it's what you want to hear.

And if Yoo or any other lawyer had told Bushco it was illegal, you can bet they'd have ignored that and gone ahead with it. They thought they were above the law anyway.

[jgraz]

85. You prosecute lawyers for breaking the law

Which is what John Yoo did.

And, BTW, the Obama DOJ brief isn't about defending Yoo from legal penalties. They're filing a rare interlocutory appeal of a motion to dismiss. In the unlikely case that they win their appeal, the Bush criminals would be saved from having to give evidence under oath in open court.

[MNDemNY]

105. So, you disagree with going after the Nazi "Lawyers" ?

Did that open up that "slippery slope"?

[Dragonfli]

112. "They thought they were above the law anyway" and Obama agrees with them!

How cool is that for a "constitutional scholar"?

Your hero is either a poor student or disagrees with the concept of equal justice.

I wonder if he argued with his professors about exactly who is above the law and shouldn't be held accountable for crimes because apparently, if crimes happen in the past we should not look back but forward. (unless of course a non-elite citizen sells some grass to a cancer patient - then the "it happened in the past" clause does not appear to apply)

In what class and under which professor did he learn of the "move on defense" of the most serious of crimes?

[WinkyDink]

114. Perhaps reading the OP would help?

[Dystopian]

87. KandR

peace~

[Fearless]

89. And it falls on deaf ears.

[ShortnFiery]

93. Because everything the USA and this Democratic WH does is DoublePlusGood!

:crazy:

[Fearless]

97. And questioning anything means that we question everything...

And are somehow going to derail progress.

[MNDemNY]

106. Hells yes!!!

[guyton]

91. Are we evil yet?

I'm sure feeling evil for putting up with this.

Cheney essentially bragged about his involvement in torture. More than enough to convict him. What are we doing!!

[MissDeeds]

95. I was just wondering the same thing

How much of this are we going to put up with? I thought the evil and corruption would end with the last administration...guess not. :shrug:

[femrap]

94. More of the fucking same....

beyond disappointment. Simply bought and paid for. Disgusting may be the right word.

[Mithreal]

100. K&R

Evidently "THIS" sometimes means the backs of the most hideous torture approving lawyers.

[stiplic]

102. How is Obama not a war criminal????????????????

Explain DUERS!!!

[Jefferson23]

103. OMG, speechless here. n/t

[bigjohn16]

107. K&R nt

[midnight]

108. This better be a chess game being played by a wicked smart person who will

turn this around...

[WinkyDink]

113. This one is really not easy to defend.

[Dinger]

115. I'd Like To See One Die-Hard Tell Us All How "Wondreful This Is"

It just keeps getting better.:sarcasm:

[Ken Burch]

128. Then they'll start in with the "wait for the details" thing again.

:eyes:

[Jamastiene]

160. What are you going to do? Vote Republican?

You are going to hurt the party in mid-terms.
He's only been in office x months.
PUMA!1!!
What do you want? President Palin?
It's only one song!1!!
He's playing a master game of chess.
You're just a racist.

Did I miss any?

[Ken Burch]

161. You left ouf "he's just doing the invocation at the Inaugural"

and the latest one "quit bitching".

As well as the legendary "dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga!"

Other than that, your list was pretty inclusive.

[Indenturedebtor]

116. Holy crap...

I voted for the wrong person in the primaries. This is utterly revolting :puke:

And scary...

[ProSense]

117. So now a civil trial for damages is the same as a war crimes trial?

A civil lawsuit cannot be compared to the Nuremberg Trials in any way shape or form.

[MNDemNY]

119. jesus!!!

does your water-carrying for this administration know no bounds?? WOW. Ditto-bagger extraordinaries!

[ProSense]

122. "Jesus" has nothing to do with an idiotic comparison. n/t

[MNDemNY]

135. Ok

jesus has nothing to do with squat.But your water-carrying has no bounds.

[GodlessBiker]

121. Why can't they be compared in any way, shape or form?

Each involves some people complaining about the behavior of others.

Each involves lawyers giving advice to government leaders.

Each involves lawyers justifying certain actions contemplated or taken by government leaders.

There are more than enough points of commonality to make a comparison.

[ProSense]

123. A civil lawsuit is not a war crimes trial. n/t

[GodlessBiker]

125. That's right. We're not saying they're identical, we're comparing them.

Comparing and contrasting. We compare things all the time, even though they are not identical.

To say that they cannot be compared is ridiculous.

Lawyers were prosecuted at Nuremberg for providing legal advice and justification to government leaders to commit torture and other crimes.

Now, yes, that was a criminal trial and this is a civil matter. That's the contrast part. But there is certainly enough to compare them.

[ProSense]

126. " We compare things all the time, even though they are not identical." Oh brother.

A civil trial has nothing to do with the Nuremberg Trials. This claim is beyond stupid:

The Obama Administration has gutted the hard-fought victories in Nuremberg where lawyers and judges were often guilty of war crimes in their legal advice and opinions.

This is simply an standard interpretation of the law. Yoo is still under investigation.

[disndat]

174. You must be a legal scholar.

As a neutral observer, what you say sounds right to me. I do hope, Yoo, at the very least, will be disbarred by the American lawyers association.

[AntiFascist]

118. This is very disappointing. n/t

[JohnyCanuck]

120. K&R n/t

[madrchsod]

124. senator dodd must be ashamed to be an american tonight

our fathers fought a war against the very thing that obama`s justice dept just said was legal.

i am ashamed to be democrat and an american today.

[winyanstaz]

129. This is getting scary now....

[pmorlan1]

133. A Real Profile in Courage - NOT

Everyone in the Obama administration should hang their heads in shame. If they had any self respect they would all resign in mass.

[debbierlus]

134. I was aghast listening to his war as peace speech today, and the speech 'analysts' & historians

Trying to twist this speech into some type of brilliance....

My favorite was the one calling him a genius because of his ability to hold two opposing ideas in his head at the same time and be able to reconcile the differences.

Also a ton of crap about just wars and the need for force to maintain peace.

It was a sick display. Orwellian to the hilt.

War as peace.

[NMMNG]

149. Ironic, isn't it?

We spent the last 8 years screaming to GWB, "1984 isn't an instruction manual!".

Now look what we have. Some folks apparently didn't get the message. :scared:

[dixiegrrrrl]

171. So, he can maintain cognitive dissonance and rationalize it.

That's what I heard from that analysis.
Which made the 2nd time I threw up over the speech.

"When politics enter . . . government, nothing resulting there from in the way of crimes and
infamies is then incredible. It actually enables one to accept and believe the impossible."
Mark Twain

[Major Hogwash]

137. Doesn't make any sense since Obama was supposed to be such a hotshot legal mind

I wonder if some senior at Harvard will be the one to write an op-ed detailing why Obama is wrong in this instance.

[Honeycombe8]

138. Nuremburg doesn't seem the right standard, tho. It was an international court...for WAR crimes.

The guys from Gitmo will be tried under our regular criminal laws.

White Houses routinely file non-party briefs on various issues.

Having said that, I must admit that I have always thought it was iffy to try to blame attorneys who give opinions and advice based on their expertise, unless it's outrageous or somehow clearly illegal and written simply for cover. Because, the whole point of having a lawyer is so that he/she can give his legal opinion, free from prosecution, even if that opinion isn't popular.

[RetroLounge]

139. Un fucking beliveable

i hope there is a mass burning of the pom pons going on...

RL

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

140. Noble Cause or Nobel Prize?

The ideals of liberty, self-determination, equality and the rule of law
have haltingly advanced. We are the heirs of the fortitude and foresight of generations past, and it is
a legacy
for which my own country
is rightfully proud.


Furthermore,
America cannot insist that others follow the rules of the road if
we refuse to follow them ourselves.


First,
in dealing with those nations that break rules and laws,
I believe that we must develop alternatives to violence that are tough enough to change behavior - for if we want a lasting peace, then
the words of the international community must mean something.
Those regimes that break the rules must be held accountable.


Those who claim to respect international law
cannot avert their eyes when
those laws are flouted.


This brings me to a second point -
the nature of the peace that we seek. For peace is not merely the absence of visible conflict.
Only a just peace based upon

the inherent rights and dignity of every individual

can truly be lasting.


It was this insight that drove drafters of the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
after the Second World War.
In the wake of devastation, they recognized that if
human rights are not protected,
peace is a hollow promise.


No matter how callously defined, neither America's interests - nor the world's -are served by the
denial of human aspirations.


So let us reach for the world that ought to be -
that spark of the divine
that still stirs within
each of our souls.
Somewhere today, in the here and now, a soldier sees he's outgunned but stands firm to keep the peace.

Somewhere today, in this world, a young protestor awaits the brutality of her government, but has the courage to march on.

Somewhere today, a mother facing punishing poverty still takes the time to teach her child,
who believes that a cruel world still has

a place for his dreams.

[katandmoon]

141. Fucking shameful.

[Goldstein1984]

144. Recommended Reading: "Stripping Bare the Body"

"Stripping Bare the Body: Politics, Violence, War" by Mark Danner

Obama is showing the true colors of a politician under pressure.

I'm disappointed, but somehow not very surprised.

Our government isn't what it pretends to be.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

146. Maybe someone should call him

on whose advice?

[vegetat]

151. infamous

[Skittles]

152. I conclude that Obama does not just want the approval of THEM

he wants to BE one of THEM

[AllyCat]

153. At first, I thought the rest of the world saw something we didn't in his nomination

Now I am wondering why the f*ck he is receiving this award. The corporations own everything else, why not the Nobel committee?

[democracy1st]

155. more bs from the Goldman Sachs admin

[Jamastiene]

159. Keep the change, chumps.

Is that basically what Obama is saying to us now? :eyes:

[democrank]

164. Now the apologists have an Injustice Department to be proud of

Truly sickening

[Starry Messenger]

169. He was just following orders.

:eyes: The weaseling by this Administration is epic.

[geckosfeet]

170. This is faily disgusting.

[Demeter]

172. This Has Scalia Written All Over It

He must be feeling the heat...hopefully the fires of hell.

[Piewhacket]

173. OBAMA ! The stench is ON YOO!