I Predict In 20 Years People Will Look Back and Say ....

[Blackhatjack]

Climate Change was so obvious back then how could they have had doubts and refused to do anything about it.

You mean there used to be more than 3 Major Banks?

Those 9 inch heels women were wearing back then were not functional, made women walk funny, and contributed to an overabundance of orthopaedic injuries.

GO AHEAD ---make your own predictions!

[Oregone]

1. "Its a good thing that huge country isn't around anymore to exploit the world"

[anonymous171]

6. But this other huge country that is currently exploiting us is just as bad.

[vadawg]

14. or this other huge country now exploiting the world is worse, imagine how the world would look if

other countries who have been around were still the superpowers, especially the only superpower...

[Gabi Hayes]

86. rather be dead than red?

or what?

my country, right or wrong...

or what?

[dem mba]

112. exactly

China and India exploit and suppress their own populations, but if they were to overtake the US in power and influence they would suddenly become magnanimous?

i'm not blind to this country's flaws and sins, but let's not be blind to the flaws and sins of other world powers either.

[truedelphi]

47. Thank You!!

Took the words right out pof my moouth.

Only you are so concise, while I tend to rant and rave.

[Deja Q]

49. They still will be. Just not from America.

If that quote you postulated is going to be real.

After all, for example, if our drug costs are exponentially higher then drug costs, we are the ones being exploited.

[proteus_lives]

92. Grampy Oregone is looking forward to Chinese Dominion.

[Oregone]

102. Cheaper food, smaller cars, and more red dyed clothing

What could go wrong?

[proteus_lives]

104. Harvested for our organs?

What could go wrong?

[Forkboy]

103. Yep, that's clearly what was implied.

:eyes:

[DFW]

2. Telephones had cables attached to them?

You gotta be kidding. Next thing, you'll try to tell me that there used to be ice in the Arctic.........

[Shagbark Hickory]

3. "We should've brought the troops home"

[Newsjock]

4. "Senator Levi Johnson once posed for Playgirl?"

n/t

[emulatorloo]

9. it could happen! That boy's got MOXIE!

[sinkingfeeling]

5. There once was a 'cold war' between two super powers, but their love of war ended

up bankrupting both of them and they're not very important to the world today."

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. A line from one of those Saturday night SyFy movies -

a soldier trapped in time from 1949 asks soldier from 2008 "Are the US and the Soviets at war yet?" to which the modern soldier replys "What's a soviet?"

[Swede]

7. People will virtually visit during the holidays.

Kind of like a conference call,they will seem to be in the same room,hear the same music etc.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. but how do you pass the mashed potatoes? nt

[Swede]

22. Details will have to be worked out.

Have the same food,same drink etc.

[zoff]

106. Oh yea, ala GI Joe.

[emulatorloo]

8. How did that lunatic Palin get so much media coverage? Did she have an affair with Tiger Woods?

[dbonds]

10. People actually had a society based on GREED?

And they had this stuff called money that was units of greed?

[iceman66]

12. Maybe in 200 years.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Yep - in Star Trek they didn't abandon the money economy until

the 22nd century.

[dbonds]

26. That actually was the model I was thinking of as a good template to follow.

[anigbrowl]

38. You understand that's science fiction, yes?

You know, they never seem to have any major resource problems in Star Trek...every now and again they run a bit short of dilithium crystals, but that's about it. Nobody on Star Trek has to make any economic choices, but for all you know their space hijinks are supported by a vast network of planetbound slaves.

I mean, I like Star trek and all, but it's basically just 'Space Navy', set on the Enterprise instead of an aircraft carrier.

[dbonds]

42. I understand that its fiction, but...

that doesn't mean it isn't a great idea. See those little things we all have now called cell phones, the star trek communicator was the inspiration for those (admitted by the early designers)

On edit: they did explain their economic system, or lack of one in a couple episodes of ST:TNG.

On edit again: Here is someone looking into a society like that http://www.thevenusproject.com

[anigbrowl]

64. I'm not sure you do

You're comparing a fictional device (like a communicator) with a modern piece of technology like a cell phone - indeed the latter is inspired by the former, good job everyone.

But an economic system is not a technical device, it's a social one, and Star Trek doesn't deal in those. Kirk or whoever never has to make a desperate choice between two different but equally undesirable alternatives - when he is put in tough position and the show refers to the 'Kobayashi Maru' scenario, it's actually a choice between two courses of action that will have the same outcome. This is because in literary terms, Star Trek is a comedy, and not a tragedy (comedy doesn't necessarily mean funny in this context).

I mean, to put it in the most basic terms, have you ever noticed that when they need to raise the dramatic stakes in a Star Trek episode or movie, and make the situation seem more deadly-dangerous, the by-now-standard method is to kill a crew member wearing a red shirt? How do you think these people feel (in fictional terms) about the whole system every time one of them dies thanks to their commanders' lack of caution and foresight?

They don't have a better economic system on Star Trek. For all practical purposes it works just like the military. Sign up to the navy today and you can (theoretically) spend the rest of your working life on an aircraft carrier or in a submarine or wherever, with free food and clothing supplied by the US Navy. Sure, you might get shot at or blown up, but as we've seen that's also a risk in the Star trek universe.

Inside a military organization, rank is the only currency that matters. Outside people use money, but nobody has the right to tell you what to do just because they have more of it than you do. Sure, they seem to manage without any money in Star Trek, but that's thanks to a) literary sleight of hand, by simply not depicting competition for scarce resources and b) a social model which is basically a benign dictatorship with no significant social mobility.

[dbonds]

70. You are using life on the ship as the economic system...

The story is much broader than that and the system I refer to is earth in that time period. And Star Trek deals many times with complex social problems, many of them are our problems just re-framed in a different world so you can look at it freshly. Kobayashi Maru was just a training exercise, there are many times where they make tough life or death decisions, but even more where they have to make tough social decisions. I would not classify ST as a comedy or a tragedy though - it is Sci-Fi with social commentary. But this sub-thread is getting diverted talking about the show itself and not the good system that the show suggests.

[anigbrowl]

79. That's how it actually works, in practice

The basic problem is that what looks like a tough decision in star trek is usually a false dilemma. Kirk is presented with a situation along the lines of 'up or down, the enterprise will be destroyed' and solves these problems by moving sideways. A really tough decision would be where they have two characters in danger and they can only save one.

On the rare occasions that something like this arises, writers usually get out of the issue by having one character choose to sacrifice themselves, thereby absolving their superior of responsibility...the famous example being Spock killing himself in the Wrath of Khan film by doing something that's suicidal-but-necessary. It would be totally different (and much less reassuring) if Kirk said 'Well, I know it's suicide but someone has to go in there and I'm ordering you to do it.'

It's not that I think these lessons of reciprocity and self-sacrifice are a bad thing, by any means. You can look to worse places than Star trek fo answers to tricky ethical questions. But when you get down it, the writers will (correctly) avoid forcing the characters into making decisions that will alienate large segments of the audience. So when they discuss the economic system, it sounds great, but that appears to have been achieved (technologically) by an abolition of scarcity and (socially) by the abolition of selfishness and personal ambition.

I would not classify ST as a comedy or a tragedy though - it is Sci-Fi with social commentary.

Well, 'comedy' has a technical meaning in literary terms. It's a comedy insofar as every episode basically ends with the main characters back where they started and the natural order of things restored...I know, this is a very academic way to define it and I didn't make that very clear.

[dbonds]

83. Have you watched any of the series besides the original?

There are a lot more deeper things going on, and there are long plot arcs where the end of the arc is in a very different place than the start (place plot and situational), not a reset button. There have been times when the lesser of two evils have to be chosen, and also times where the choice went badly.

[anigbrowl]

96. Oh sure, but I can't address every point of all 4 series and 7(?) movies

That's one reason I kinda went along with referring to the original series, or it would have gotten hopelesly complicated. As you say, the point here isn't so much about Star Trek as whether you can have an economic system without money. I don't think ST is really able to address this in any meaningful detail.

[Deja Q]

50. It was also due to a maajor world war. Since most DUers hate war...

:evilgrin:

[dbonds]

28. You're probably right, but a girl can hope can't she

:)

[anonymous171]

18. Money is not going anywhere until private property is abolished (Communism.)

Which means that it will never happen.

[dbonds]

25. Communism isn't the only alternative to Capitalism

Look to Star Trek for the model. Everything is automated to the point where people choose to do what they want to do, when they want to do it. You don't work for you living, you live the life you choose. And people choose to be productive in their own way. No money problems, so no theft, no corruption, no poverty, and none of the other problems money causes.

[anonymous171]

35. The Star Trek model only works because of replicators.

Until we get those in real life we are stuck with our shity capitalist/socialist money systems.

[Deja Q]

53. Kirk (the good Kirk) era didn't have currency, either... nor did they have "replicators".

("Star Trek IV" mentioned it outright and half the classic series shows alluded to it...)

[JVS]

62. even if we get them, it becomes an issue of who owns replicators

[anonymous171]

78. Interesting point. Sort of like factories today

Instead of being used to benefit all of mankind the factories are being used to make weapons of war and worthless trinkets all just to inflate the bottom lines of the elite. Replicators would probably be utilized in a similar fashion.

[JVS]

80. That's why when reading communist stuff the phrase "control of the means of production" occurs...

so frequently. Socialism isn't simply about good wages and benefits. It's about realizing that modern technology makes the social relationships governing who makes the economic decision obsolete and detrimental to the stability and well being of the society.

One would hope that by the time we have replicators (especially if the replicators can replicate other replicators) that we would realize that the social system that allows the people who own the replicators to control all the production is ridiculous.

[leveymg]

48. If everyone has replicators, why do some people work as miners (with those monsters down there)?

So, some sort of class system obviously still exists in the 25th Century, even if it isn't discussed. Kinda like America, today.

[Deja Q]

How do we treat our classes?

A global question, one should think...

:D

[dbonds]

57. That was a different planet with a different culture.

[JVS]

59. Under capitalism such an automation is a curse, because the capitalists decide how the machines...

are used. Their decision is always for their own benefit and all others get screwed. In order for the machinery to be used for the benefit of the people we need communism first.

[Deja Q]

51. Especially if people have no sense of respect for others,

which is in full force nowadays and for a wide range of issues.

Private property is okay. Working with people to better each other and society should be the real goal.

[StarfarerBill]

65. With an attitude like that, you might as well be a fascist.

[HopeHoops]

11. How the FUCK did Dubya get to be president? n/t.

[FarLeftFist]

13. "Daddy, What's a republican?" n/t

[azmouse]

15. Every restaurant will be a Taco Bell.

Or so the movie Demolition Man says.

[dbonds]

32. So how do you use the 3 shells?

[azmouse]

37. Wait. You don't know how to use the 3 shells?!

ummmm.... well, honestly, just between you and me, I have no idea. :shrug: But don't tell anyone that. shhhhhh....

[KamaAina]

56. That movie also says that Ahh-nuld will be pResident

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[Echo In Light]

16. In 20 yrs our modern civilization won't look the same - it's unsustainable in current form

[galileoreloaded]

43. I read that exact same thing in a Mother Earth News my parents had saved from the 70's

that is eerie....

Edit sp.

[Echo In Light]

46. There's better, current data available.

[Blackhatjack]

21. It was the Palin/Bachmann ticket and the Teabaggers that split the Repub Party. n/t

[KrR]

23. There were a bunch of nutty "liberals" who opposed HCR n/t

[cloudbase]

24. Why haven't the Browns ever been to the Super Bowl?

[jobycom]

29. I was going to say "Did Tony Romo ever not win a Super Bowl?"

but you stole my football schtick and made it better, anyway. :rofl:

[JVS]

81. LOL! Nobody would ask that. We all know the answer

BECAUSE THEY SUCK

[Jokerman]

27. We just need to "stay the course" in Afghanistan until we "win". n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. "You mean there was once more than 5 airlines and 4 car companies?" n/t

[Uben]

31. Remember the stock market?

(20 yrs later)Yeah, you used to be able to make a little money in it, but when Wall Street finally got busted for cheatin people out of their money, it folded. There was once a thing called retirement in America. It was something older people could look forward to. Now we just hope to die before we are unable to work.

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. "I'm glad we repealed the 22nd Amendment, but wow, how many more terms can this guy stay in office?

He's already been through three Vice-Presidents, and I have to say; I think Michelle has been the best one by far.

Can you believe the response the Draft Malia for President movement is getting? Good thing we were able to ratify the 28th Amendment removing the age limit for eligibility!

[jobycom]

34. Only 40,000 more troops. This time is different. We will win it this time.

[Blackhatjack]

36. Remember when there used to be a Middle Class, home ownership and college for everyone?

It might be gone way before 20 years elapses.

[Blackhatjack]

39. "Just When Are Those Tax Cuts Supposed To Trickle Down To The Rest Of Us?"

[Eric Condon]

40. "Don't you get it? The Dems in Congress are playing chess!"

"The Bristol Meyers Squibb Corporate Welfare Act™ of 2029 is not just some giveaway to corporations! It's part of their plan to get everyone a viable public option, one that has a trigger and everything!"

[FLAprogressive]

45. +1

[phatkatt]

41. You mean everyone had their own transportation device?!?

And they didn't see how incredible wasteful that was?!?

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. People used to be quiet when attending plays, movies, and concerts?!

And there used to places that parents wouldn't take their children? An they used to tell the children to be quiet in nice restaurants?

WOW! How awful!!!

:wow:

[Liberal_in_LA]

98. lol n/t

[LanternWaste]

52. In twenty years, people will be raising their arms in fists of righteous anger and indignation

In twenty years, people will be raising their arms in fists of righteous anger and indignation, telling us that revolution and anarchy and financial meltdown and the end-of-the-system and the end-of-days are merely weeks away. We will be told to stock pile tuna, ammunition, duct-tape and bottled water. The then-current president will be accused of being a fascist or a communist. People will be angry because the President is a Christian, a Muslim or an atheist. Any military action will be called "illegal and immoral' by the Chosen Few. The few remaining tracts of land not taken over by desertification will be see as evidence that mankind never contributed to global warning, and that pollution is part and parcel of Manifest Destiny.

Oh, and Disney will have just released the musical version of 1984 for the big screen. Out here in No Man's land...

[Blackhatjack]

54. "You mean back then everybody had equal access to the Internet?"

It seems clear that the trend is for mega-corps to tighten their grips on the Internet, by limiting access and bandwidth. Makes you wonder what the Internet will look like .....

[thelordofhell]

55. Questions 20 years later

Remember newspapers?

Gas used to be 3 bucks a gallon?

People went bankrupt because of healthcare?

Will Dick Cheney ever die?

[Romulox]

58. Powder? Still dry! nt

[JVS]

60. "Olive Garden isn't the only Italian restaurant?"

[Odin2005]

61. "People were thrown into a tizzy because the president was Black!?!"

[Lilith Velkor]

101. (Three years later, Adam Lambert is elected President. Hilarity ensues.)

[reflection]

63. I don't know how we ever watched 2D television. n/t

[mdmc]

66. In 20 years people will be looking for easy answers, easy solutions

just like today

[LeftinOH]

67. "The upcoming elections in (Iraq/Afghanistan/Palestine, etc...) mark a turning point

in the peace process!"

[cherokeeprogressive]

68. "My Daughter STILL Can't Marry Her Girlfriend OR Serve Her Country..." n/t

[eShirl]

69. "Remember the good ol' days 20 years ago?"

[harkadog]

71. "You mean there was once just two major parties?"

[Echo In Light]

74. That was actually just ONE party

[Hassin Bin Sober]

72. *static*

[dysfunctional press]

73. how many women wear 9 inch heels?

i've never seen a one.

[LaydeeBug]

75. Hey LayDee...what was it like before we took down the fascists and demanded single payer?

gotta dream...gotta dream big.

[hunter]

76. They didn't have Soylent Green? What did lazy shiftless unemployed Americans eat?

And they predicted there would be climate refugees? Have you ever seen a climate refugee?

Climate change turned out to be okay. There's plenty of work in the Alaskan food factories and coal mines, even for immigrants.

That's because strong Republicans like Sarah Palin know how to get the job done.

[Blackhatjack]

77. "Mom, what did real corn taste like before it was genetically modified?"

May be a little early, but there is a storm coming over genetically modified foods and control of seed crops throughout the world.

Didn't take long for corps to develop seed that would not reproduce so the farmer would always have to buy his seed year after year from them.

And entire food crops have been infiltrated by genetically modified crops.

[mitchum]

82. "Can you believe that cannibalism was once unnecessary and frowned upon?"

[Gabi Hayes]

84. "Idiocracy" wasn't really a documentary?

[Arugula Latte]

85. "Damn dirty Apes!"

[Oeditpus Rex]

87. 'Gay couples couldn't get married??'

[branders seine]

88. They'll say, "Now that there are only two of us left alive,

give me that last can of beans!"

[Terry in Austin]

89. "Wow - you could walk for seven days and still be in the same country?"

:shrug:

[flvegan]

90. "We should have looked at flvegan's Democratic Underground posts before voting him President."

:rofl:

[proteus_lives]

91. In 20 years they will be having threads just like this one.

Just on better computers.

[nomorenomore08]

99. +100

I think you win the thread...

[jgraz]

93. "Global warming sucks but at least we got rid of Florida"

[SpiralHawk]

94. "Why did republicons slavishly follow chickenhawks into war over and over."

"Couldn't they see that the republicon chickenhawks were staying home and amassing huge freaking fortunes by telling lies and sending others off to fight and die. How dumb was that?"

[Bonn1997]

95. "The Knicks still suck!"

[Liberal_in_LA]

97. cute thread

[omega minimo]

100. "We just don't have real professional journalists like Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert any more!"

[LibDemAlways]

105. "Don't laugh, son. That ugly ass thing was called a hummer. And people

actually drove them around."

"The last time a politician promised to reform health care was when Barack Obama was elected. Damn shame nothing much came of it."

"Those little symbols on the flag? Those signify the corporations that run this country. They replaced the stars a few years ago."

[brettdale]

107. I have a feeling that in 20 years time

The media will Blame Clinton for Global warming.

[Goldstein1984]

108. In 20 years...

I will be telling my great grandchildren about that fine day with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were convicted of crimes against humanity.

I will be on a tropical cruise to the North Pole.

I'll still be scuba diving, but by then all the coral will have dissolved in the carbonic acid ocean (H2O + CO2 = H2CO3).

Israel and the Palestinians will be holding another peace summit.

[name not needed]

109. "When the FUCK are we gonna get flying cars?!"

[Jim Lane]

110. "Isn't McCain a little old to be running for President?" (n/t)

[Blackhatjack]

111. So TWO Stolen Elections Caused 3 Wars, a Wall Street Raid on the Public Treasury, and ....

... our wages are still at 2009 levels?

[Blackhatjack]

113. "The Price of Fresh Water Per 100 gal DID NOT EXCEED Price Barrel of Oil? "....

... and it is clear that with the shortages in fresh water around the world, the price is not coming down anytime soon."

[Javaman]

114. "SOYLENT GREEN WASN'T MADE FROM PEOPLE!!!" nt

[Unvanguard]

115. "What, people actually opposed same-sex couples marrying?"

Okay, maybe more like fifty... but here's hoping.

[Sparkly]

116. I still say History will be head-scratching Chimpy's "re-election" in 2004

I think that is a study in psychology that could be pondered for decades... (Ohio "irregularities" aside.)

[hunter]

117. Remember when it was easy to find a gas station or a pay phone?

Whatever happened to those?