Nuts and bolts. How much can you afford PER PERSON for real health insurance/care.

[galileoreloaded]

No deductible, no copay. Health care. Everything covered.

For me, anything over $50 a month per person (4 person household) and I have to get creative. Or just get on the non-documented immigrant plan. ER only.

So what is your number.

[Oregone]

1. Not to hijack your thread, but health care ought to cost LESS than what you could afford

Hell, isn't America supposed to promote social mobility? How about that American Dream? If you are tossing everything left away at health care, your kids probably aren't going to end up earning a whole lot more than you (if they had to forgo education), or moving up in social class. If you promote a society where 100% of earnings among the lower classes must be immediately spent to to sustain existence (food, housing, healthcare), its a society that doesn't encourage retirement or education of posterity--a virtual class system.

[anarch]

18. are you saying we're kept "in our place" on purpose?

Like, the working class is kept down by the system? Well that sure would explain a hell of a lot, wouldn't it now?

[MercutioATC]

2. I'm spending about $175 per person now, and that's very doable.

If forced to, I could probably double that without having to make any real sacrifices.

[galileoreloaded]

5. Ok, thanks. About $4200 per year, per person.

so, my family of four would be $16,800.00.

I appreciate your response.

If you don't mind me asking, how much of that $4200 a year do you actually spend?

[MercutioATC]

7. On health care? Depends on what you're counting as "spending".

That gets me BCBS basic and a $1300/year health savings account to cover copays.

I pay a $25 deductible for a regular office visit, but I'd be "spending" a lot more if I paid the entire fee for the visit. The only real prescription I have is Nexium, which is a $40 copay, but I'd be spending a lot more for that, too.

If I self-insured, I could probably get away with a grand or so a year per person, so I'm paying a grand or so a year per person for the security of having major expenses covered.

[galileoreloaded]

13. No, I meant how much of that $4200 do you actually use?? n/t

[MercutioATC]

Probably about half. The other half pretty much just provides a measure of security.

...and it's $2100 per person right now. I could pay twice that without too much difficulty, but it's a total of $4200 for two people at the moment.

[galileoreloaded]

17. Thanks. Youre the only person who actually gave me a number.

Christ, this board needs Lithium today.

[MercutioATC]

19. I like to be different.

Besides, I kinda figured more people would want to argue than just answer a simple question.

[havocmom]

3. Problem, affordability of insurance is not the only problem

Huge medical corporations have turned medical care between patient and physician into McMedicine. More about numbers than care. See more patients, refer more to other members of the clinic staff, whether it is needed or not....

Lots of running around for the patient, but seems like more and more people are reporting less and less actual health care.

I have insurance, but I cannot get care. I am legion.

[sui generis]

4. well the rich should have to pay, like 80 percent of their income

:eyes:

Do you know, we shouldn't be paying "premiums" at all - that's the saddest part.

Tiered income tax - period. In periods of unemployment, any of your ACTUAL medical expenses are credited as simple income the following tax year or your expected Minimum Health tax contribution, whichever is more, if not pre-paid.

How hard is that? It eliminates risk pools, idiotic premium policies, arbitrary donut-hole-like rules and other sordid bullshit, and EVERYONE's premiums would be lower as a result.

Not in this George W. Obama administration.

[Davis_X_Machina]

6. Nothing. I want someone else to pay for it, through higher taxes....

....on them, not me, that and the difference between the administrative costs of the present system the single payer system we'd have if only Obama could do an LBJ and would use signing statements and change the Senate plan to Medicare for all, by executive order, over Congress' head, because Bush would do precisely that, and when I voted for Obama, I wanted someone who would be our Bush, dammit, and break shit.

(Can you tell I've been on here since '01?)

[Ozymanithrax]

8. Depends on what you define as real health care.

A single, unmarried, individual under the age of 40 would will have different needs than I do. I'm 57, with a wife, two children under 10, and know that regular preventative health care is the best tool I have to make sure that I can manage to take care of my responsibilities until my children graduate. I also need dental for me and my family. We currently have blue-cross through my wife's workplace going for a bit more than what your minimum would be. But your minimum and mine will only go so far. Even with health care, we are one catastrophic illness away from bankruptcy.

Real health care would, for me, cover everything from preventative care to catastrophic illness, along with dental, and would insulate me from the bankruptcy court. I'd be willing to pay twice what I pay now, and probably more, for that.

[dmallind]

9. Then you will need to be subsidized under any system, public or private

There is no way over your life that you will not average more than $600 for every year in total healthcare costs. To do that you'd have to die very young, of an accident, and forego many preventive services. Especially if you are including dental care.

Innoculations alone will put you in a hole as an infant. Playground accidents could keep you behind. Pregnancy would account for many years' allocations. You are screwed if you gat any kind of chronic condition requiring an ongoing prescription. That leaves nothing for any major ailments or accidents.

And this is assuming real costs and reasonable medical provider salaries, plus pharma negotiations. With the cost structure we have today you'd likely be behind just getting checkups and shots.

It's just impractical to expect any kind of medical care for that amount.

Which is of course how real public options work (and even how private options manage). Let's say it costs on average $2000 a year to cover an individuals healthcare with decent price management. Just a guess. Some people will develop expensive ailments. Some people will have major accidents/surgeries. Some people will go to a doctor only a handful of times in their life and die in bed. Time of life will vary, and all that. You can only afford $50 a month as you say so $600 a year. Unless you are entirely irresponsible that is doubtless because you have a lowish income I'd guess. I'm on a more comfortable to decent income so let's say I can cover my $2000, but not the additional $1400 to cover your shortfall. The bigger money earners can cover say $4000 a year so they can cover you and a bit of another person's shortfall. In public options that's higher taxes for higher income obviously. In private options it's healthier people using fewer resources covering those who use more. In your case there will be no private option, as I can't imagine any coverage being available for $600 a year except perhaps a very high deductible catastrophic care option. In that case you could not afford the deductible either most likely or the ongoing care and prescriptions, so in this crazy world sickness = bankruptcy for lower income (and even many not so lower income) folks.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I think that's the wrong question ..... or at least a very unreasonable posit

Let's use your $50 per month.

Let's assume you have a heart attack.

Let's assume your cardiac surgical nurse (forget the cardiologist, ambulance driver, anesthesiologist and the scores of other medical professionals that will be involved in your care, for a sec) makes $50 an hour, all in. Would you be okay if she left your procedure after an hour and come back next month?

Or if she stays, does that mean you get no more health care until you use no health care until your balance is back to zero?

[galileoreloaded]

15. It's unreasonable to only have $200 a month for health care??

Love your posts Stinky, but how is it reasonable to expect someone to have more money for anything than they actually have? Do you work for the Federal Reserve? Have a printing press? Can I borrow it?

[Stinky The Clown]

20. You're missing the point entirely .......

Health **care** costs money. Sometimes LOTS of money.

I *think* the OP's question was about health *insurance* ...... a very different matter.

And even there, if the OP were paying zero dollars for health insurance, he would *still* be paying for healthcare as a part of his taxes.

Here's the cost of healthcare per person in the US.

Add up every dollar spent by any entity - from private person to the federal government to private employers - that gets spent on any aspect of health and then divide by the population.

That's the cost per person.

[fizzgig]

11. maybe $50 each for my two person household

things are still pretty tight for us

[DURHAM D]

12. I would like to know how much everyone pays for their internet connection and

their tv access.

[timeforpeace]

14. It's based on how much I can afford? I don't like the sound of this.

[galileoreloaded]

16. Good Lord. How did this thread turn into what it has become??

I simply asked what people could afford for insurance, and what I am getting is a great big Neo-con "fuck you, you can't pay, you don't play".

I can't afford to donate, so I cant run a poll, excuse me.

Which way to sanity??

[winyanstaz]

21. Sorry....on my widow's pension....I cannot afford anything

for a co-pay.
That is how so many vets, widows and orphans are denied health-care. They make us go to civilian doctors if we are not on active duty..and the co-pays are $150.00 per visit.
On the tiny pensions...that is just ridiculous.
That is one of the reasons you find so many disabled vets and even the widows dying under bridges and on the streets or from lack of healthcare etc.
We cannot go to the military doctors on base.
If there is no va hospital in the area (and many places don't have one)..you are s.o.l.
Because I could not afford the co-pays nor for a visit to the emergency room..I had to lay for 6 months in pain and agony from a major bad fall this last year. Thank goodness for family and friends or I would not have made it. My leg is still not healed and I don't think it will ever heal right now.
To go to the emergency room once can mean going without heat or perhaps food for a month..or two.
The last time I tried..it ended up costing me $450.00 for an ear infection and that did not include the medications. (first they gave me the wrong anti-biotics..then not enough of the right ones..resulting in three visits) I could not pay it fast enough and so it went to the collections agency who hounded me day and night and ruined my good credit.(yes I was finally able to pay it off)
Am I pissed with the new health-care bill? You bet I am.
Both my husband and I worked and paid taxes all our lives..and he ended up losing his life because of his service to this Nation.
I think I should be able to see a damned doctor at least once in a while because I have already paid the ultimate to this nation.

*edited for speeling

[taught_me_patience]

22. This really depends whether it is pre or post tax.

I'm able to spend up to $1000 pre tax and $600 post tax/mo for health insurance.

[Blue_In_AK]

23. We're paying $800 a month now

for two of us. It's deducted from my husband's fixed pension. He says it's gone up from $96 for two when he first retired about 15 years ago (before we were married), and now it's $800. This has been a REAL pay cut for him. We also pay a 20% copay. I don't think there's a deductible as long as we use "approved providers."

ed. This does NOT include dental and only pays a fraction for eye care.

[sinkingfeeling]

24. Well, I'm a single person and get most of my health insurance via my employer.

I pay in $63 a month and my employer pays another $264/mo, making the policy premiums $3936 per year. I then have a long-term care policy that costs me $245 a year. I carry extra policies for cancer and heart that cost about $880 a year.

This year my total health care expenses will be $132,000. And another $4500 for dental work mandated by my cancer.

[metalbot]

25. Could afford? A lot more than I'm paying. Do I want to? No

I pay about $700 per month for a family of three (I'm counting employer contribution, since I'm the employer as well as the employee). Under my current plan, this is independent of the number of children I have. It works to about $8400 per year. Over my lifetime I'm probably about even on what I've paid in insurance vs the cost of the medical care that I've gotten. Since I'm 40, that means that I'm statistically likely to come out ahead if it were a pure gamble of cost vs benefits.

If the question is "how much can you afford", then you might as well start asking how much people make. I can afford up until I can't afford it anymore. Health insurance as a spending priority comes somewhere after housing, food, transportation, and education for my daughter. My current plan is pretty comprehensive, with low out of pocket payments for most things. If money were tighter, I'd simply switch to a plan that had higher deductibles, and take the risk that I'd be paying more out of pocket for medical expenses.

[Shagbark Hickory]

26. For no deductible or copay, I can do $150-200 per person. But I can live with a 500-1000 deductible

[haele]

27. I pay about $700 a month for myself and my family of 3 -

Not counting the almost $150 a month I put into the health FSA. But then, there are two members of my family who are disabled and the cost beyond the premium averages about an additional $400 a month with doctor's co-pays and prescriptions. The FSA knocks that additional cost to about $250 a month, so just on health maintenance, between a minimum of 7 doctor's visits and 11 different medications every month, we pay $950 a month. The $700 a month and the FSA are tax-free, (and I get the FSA expenditures back), so we can probably reverse the cost to around $650, to incorporate the tax savings.
That still ends up being around 20% of my monthly income.

Of course, that doesn't count -
Urgent Care/Emergency Room Co-Pays ("Clumsy" teen with mental and emotional issues - every month she's in for something...)
Laboratory procedures (at least four a year to monitor progress of disability - probably around $150 a pop after insurance takes care of everything)
OTC and "special occasion" medical expenses (the tax-deductible coded items like medical appliances, the occasional doctor's visit shots, and the more heavy-duty occasional OTC medications) -
That runs probably another thousand or so a year.
This year, due to unexpected surgeries, we've probably spent closer to 30% of our income on health care. I'm going to have to run the numbers on what we've spent outside the FSA, but I think we may have actually spent enough out of pocket to be more than the almost $12K "standard deduction" for a family of 3, and can claim this on our taxes this year.

Of course, this isn't usual. If there were no disabilities in my family pushing up the medical costs, what we're paying is probably the average, and between an FSA keyed to cover a conservative estimate of dental, co-pays, and deductibles and the pre-tax benefit of employer provided medical, we would probably only see actual out of pocket/paycheck medical expenditures of around $400 a month for the family. Which can be do-able to an average family, if they knew they had to budget for it.

Disabilities and other Medical Emergencies, however, can throw all of that out of whack. I can't afford 30% of my paycheck going to medical expenses. I don't make enough to have that much plus the critical household "can't do without" costs of housing, basic utilities, food and other basics (clothing, sanitation and transportation costs) (that's about 55% of total our income) and still have much of anything left over for a rainy day fund, repairs, pet care, the few trinkets or cheap treats for family celebrations or recognition - or much of anything else that keeps life worth living.

When I compare the cost of living my parents had when I was growing up - a family where both parents initially worked blue/pink collar jobs (gas station mechanic and secretary) and went to university full time, moving six times to follow a master's degree in education and Far East History until one could get job teaching High School full time, raising two active and clumsy kids (broken legs, broken arms, serious cuts and sprains...)with little or sometimes no medical insurance - and they could save enough to go on a camping vacation for two weeks every year, pay for music lessons, keep up with auto and household repairs, and buy a house right after the first year Dad started teaching.

Most of it is a cultural mindset - too much of what we have is "disposable" - it's expected that we replace an appliance or an auto every three to five years instead of considering them "an investment" to be cared for and maintained over decades. (Not to mention kids always having to have the latest and greatest...)
Heck, jobs are considered disposable. Workers are disposable. Relationships and families are disposable ("They didn't come in your seabag, son...")
The other part is that persistence, patience, accomplishment and personal well-being are not valued very highly. Happiness is apparently supposed to be a feeling of mania, an "extreme", not a feeling of satisfaction or just "being fine". Any little discomfort is something to be excised immediately.

And here I am rambling again. Ah well, that's what happens during a slow lunch period.

Haele

[bpj62]

28. Hope you all are sitting down

My insurance premium for 2010 will be $20,016.00. My employer cannot afford health care so we are on an indiviual plan. My son was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma when he was 4 1/2 and he has to have his own insurance plan. That fee is premium alone. It does not include co-pays or the deductable that resets every year. My wife and I have no margin for error left. I live in Virginia which is a pro-business state so we are basically screwed. I was advised by a state employee that I should divorce my wife. That way she and my son would be eligible for medicare. What a fucked up world. An 8 year old boy has to have his own insurance policy.