howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:08 PM
Original message |
I am deeply disturbed that Obama used a Nazi comparison at his peace prize speech. |
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"I face the world as it is, and cannot stand idle in the face of threats to the American people. For make no mistake: Evil does exist in the world. A non-violent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms. To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason."
This strikes me as bizarre and wrong on so many levels. As far as I understand, Nazi comparisons are bad taste at its fullest. Especially from the mouth of a politician. Obama must surely know this. Yet he chooses to sink so low, and that at such an occasion.
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Lerkfish
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message |
1. I think you're correct: you're deeply disturbed. |
UTUSN
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Sat Dec-12-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
emulatorloo
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message |
2. thanks for your "concern", howard1!!1!11! |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 08:10 PM by emulatorloo
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SoxFan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Nice post, Hi...oh, the hell with it |
Sebastian Doyle
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message |
4. It is a ridiculous comparison indeed |
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Hitler's Army actually existed.
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BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
18. CANT. BE. BOTHERED. WITH. FACTS. |
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Now move along and prepare for choir rehearsal. Tonight's selection is: "Don't Point Out the Truth or YOU Are Not A Patriot!"
Ready, set, SING! LOUDLY!
BHN
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
41. I really have to question your orthography and punctuation, there, |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 08:40 PM by MineralMan
BHN. It's a little odd, you must agree. You also appear to have omitted a very important apostrophe.
Cant is a word, but it doesn't really fit into your admittedly odd title. It's meaning bears no relation to what you are attempting so haltingly to say.
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BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
44. Your concern is noted. |
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For the last time. BHN:hi:
Guess if you're coming or going from my world now!
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
53. Oh, I'm ignored. I shall go, now, and pout for a time. |
sharp_stick
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message |
5. You'r concern is duly noted |
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thank you for caring enough that you would use your first name and a shitload of numbers to make sure it wasn't taken.
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sharp_stick
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message |
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you don't know about the secret Aryan Kenyan alliance to take over the Christian church from good ol' boys? Shit you really are out of the loop.
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message |
7. You may wish to visit your local library and do some reading |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 08:13 PM by MineralMan
about WWII and what led up to it. You seem to not be aware of what happened during that conflict.
What President Obama said is exactly true. It took the combined efforts of several countries to end Hitler's quest for world domination. It was not a pleasant period and so many people died in the battle that it makes later conflicts seem wimpy in comparison.
This was not a "Nazi reference." It was the truth. There is no way that any non-violent movement could have dealt with Hitler. Trust me; it was tried, and failed.
Go read something. I bid you adieu.
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howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. Yeah, but he was comparing Al Qaeda to Hitler. |
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Al Qaeda is no where near Hitler.
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stray cat
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
16. You need to read it more carefully - you are jumping to your own point and not his |
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He says evil exists and can not be stopped by peaceful means. He thinks Hitler would not have been stopped by peaceful protests and he also thinks Al queda is probably not going to respond to sit ins either. Obama does think the actions of 9-11 was evil - I guess you either agree with what happened on 9-11 or think they were poor misguided soles who planned it and carried it out and if we listened to them politely they would not kill people.
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howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
26. Oh, so now I agree with 9-11? |
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Because I think comparing Al Quaeda to Hitler in order to justify a war is stupid??
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
19. No, he was saying that there is evil in the world |
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Which is true. Both AQ and the Nazis are evil... just that their power to reach is different.
He was also talking of a principle called JUST WAR. While you read on WW II, read anything by Nieburh, who informed this speech, as well as the Just War Doctrine that goes back, in modern form, to the sixteenth century.
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Bonn1997
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
60. "Both AQ and the Nazis are evil" I have one question for you |
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Does the US ever do anything evil?
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
65. Yes, where exactly do you want me to start? What year? |
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Understanding where the speech comes from and what intellectual theory informs it, does not mean I believe in American Exceptionalism.
So exactly where do you want me to start?
The Indian Wars? Perhaps the Gun Boat Policy? Perchance you'd like to start in 1848? Or slavery? How about more recent events like oh Central America?
Or perhaps go down to oh Guatemala in 1953, or Iran about the same year? Chile perhaps? Argentina? What about Brazil?
The list is long and is fully functional of this little thing people do not get.. An Empire will do what an Empire needs to do... and this Empire came to be fully formed in 1945...
Understanding a speech does not mean one is blind to other aspects of history... I guess one has to.
And are you telling me that there is no evil in the world? And are you familiar wiht Reinhold Nieburh? Martin Luther King and the Just War Doctrine?
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Fire_Medic_Dave
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Fri Dec-11-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
73. One question for you, are the United States as evil as AQ and the Nazis? |
Bonn1997
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Sat Dec-12-09 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #73 |
109. No, it's simply a difference in degree of "evil" if we're going to use that word. I believe in |
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Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 06:53 AM by Bonn1997
not throwing stones when your house is made of glass. Given the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed in this war our country started, I don't believe we should be lecturing the Europeans about evil--a bit more humility would have been appropriate IMO.
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Toots
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Sat Dec-12-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #73 |
110. Was the genocide of the American Indian less evil than the genocide of the Jews? |
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:shrug: Hitler also accomplished some good things. There are shades of grey. weigh the good and the evil and see how the scales tip. I am Glad I live in the US of A.
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MisterP
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #60 |
99. the US often dredges up Hitler for every war: |
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Korea was justified as stopping "totalitarianism on the march" or whatever; Reagan and Pat Buchanan cited Lend-Lease to justify Iran-Contra, and DubDub gassed on about Neville Chamberlain to not "appease dictators"
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anigbrowl
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
23. it is a comparison of qualities, not quantities. |
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Al Qaeda is a less powerful and populous organization than the Nazi party under Hitler was. It is no less dogmatic and intolerant.
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
29. No. He did not do that at all. Perhaps I've overestimated your |
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abilities. Perhaps you should just watch the History Channel. That will be less challenging for you than reading actual books.
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howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
32. He used the words Hitler and Al Qaeda within five seconds of each other. |
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To me that is creating an association. He was not as overt as the "we must attack Iran because they are Hitler" crowd, but pretty close.
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
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There is a Latin expression, post hoc ergo propter hoc, which is a very common flaw in logic, and one you have fallen prey to. I suggest a Google search on the term, followed by a careful reading of any of the first pages that appear.
Simply because two things occur in close proximity does not mean that they depend upon each other. English is such a fine language. It is a pity so few are capable of comprehending it. It truly is.
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DailyGrind51
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Sat Dec-12-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
105. So, I compare my ex-mother-in-law to the Anti-Christ, big f'ing deal! |
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Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 02:43 AM by DailyGrind51
Auntie-Christ, maybe?
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cliffordu
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:13 PM
Response to Original message |
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I wouldn't wanted to be painted with that brush either.
Methinks thou dost protest too much....
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berni_mccoy
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message |
10. You concern is duly noted. |
stray cat
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:16 PM
Response to Original message |
11. He was making a historical point - do you think peaceful sit ins would have stopped Hitler? |
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or maybe protesting with Peace now signs?
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howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
17. Comparing the enemy to Hitler is just a cheap tactic. |
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"We gotta fight them because they are like Hitler" sounds like something a right-winger would say.
To compare Al Qaeda to Hitler is a shallow way to justify the unjustifiable. And it plays down the gruesomeness of the third reich.
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emulatorloo
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
49. "We gotta fight them because they are like Hitler" Now you are just making stuff up |
nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
71. SHow me exactly in the speech where he said this... |
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I'll be waiting, because he did not. Apparently we lack some readying comprehension.
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kayakjohnny
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message |
apocalypsehow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message |
13. Slow night in Pumaville, eh? |
tabatha
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message |
14. There is nothing wrong with using in a reality-based sentence. |
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History cannot be brushed aside. WWII was the won by the greatest generation.
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Oregone
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
50. Using the term "Evil" rules out a "reality-based sentence" |
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What is this world? A fuckn He-Man cartoon episode?
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paulsby
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #50 |
69. evil exists in reality |
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obama knows it,i know it.
apparently, you don't
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #69 |
75. Prove it exists....that burden rests upon you |
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And Ill prove the flying spaghetti monster exists while you are at it.
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #75 |
77. i can't prove that love exists either |
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might as well throw away all that poetry and shit
i'm not saying the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist. i don't know, and neither do you.
i know evil exists, and so does obama.
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #77 |
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Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 12:41 AM by Oregone
No. You BELIEVE it exists. You have FAITH (belief in that which cannot be proven). And here is an example of policy being made upon a belief, which is no basis for sound policy.
Unfortunately, despite your belief, evil acts are just human acts. I know it helps to know you are part of the human race, which is all so good and only bad when some supernatural force of evil guides our hand. But its not true. You are cut from the same blood as murderers, racists, and war mongers. We are all human, even the "evil" ones.
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #78 |
80. i also believe the external world exists |
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and other sentient beings besides myself.
but actually, i can't PROVE those to ultimate satisfaction either. not in a deductively valid argument. and neither can you.
but i operate under the belief/assumption/faith that there are other people besides myself (or other brains in a vat or other consciousnesses or whatever) , and i operate under the same belief about evil, because my senses, my intuition, my experience, and my rationality tell me to do so.
do as you wish
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #80 |
82. Well you are free to believe whatever cookoo shit you want |
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But this cookoo belief is being used to sell a war that is killing innocent people and draining your national treasury. So while you might think you are so superior to those who are guided by evil acts, maybe you needed just a little shot of "evil" yourself to sign off on such utter tragedy to the human race with a clear conscious
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #82 |
83. do you believe in an external world besides your own experience? |
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if so, you believe in something you can't prove. you operate every day based on that belief.
so spare me the college philosophy 101 babble and get real.
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #83 |
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And that includes wars that cost billions and kill humans, meant to snuff out supernatural magical forces existing in people's hearts
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #84 |
86. so, you're a nihilist |
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lovely
also, believing in evil does NOT mean necessarily belieiving in any supernatural aspect to it.
and of course we know that people don't feel in their (biological hearts) but it doesn't mean the phrase "he has a good heart" is meaningless.
the world is super enough, with quarks and other nifty stuff.
not to mention the presence of evil, something extant throughout history but denied by people like you with blinders on
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #86 |
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Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 01:15 AM by Oregone
One that is repulsed by the notion that you can militaristically bomb an idea into nothingness, or even a rogue international criminal group that believes in an idea. And using "evil" to justify it, eh, Id rather watch He-Man episodes.
To each their own. Look out for witches on Halloween.
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #88 |
91. those are two different things |
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one can either support or reject the afghanistan war/war escalation
believing in evil is neither sufficient nor necessary in order to support or reject the former.
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #91 |
93. The argument today from Obama |
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1) Evil Exists
2) Peaceful means will not stop evil
3) Nazi Germany was evil and destroyed with the military
4) Al Queda is evil
Hence, the militaristic war in Afghanistan will stop the evil of Al Queda (like the war in Germany stopped the Nazis)
There are bountiful holes in that logical argument, starting with premise 1, but carrying on strong.
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #93 |
94. that's great but still tangential |
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whether or not one believes in evil is tangential to whether or not one believes in what obama is doing vis a vis afghanistan.
obama uses the putative existence of evil as an element of his justification for action in afghanistan
gr00vy
it does not therefore follow that if one accepts the presence of evil (at all, or in afghanistan) that one also necessarily supports his position
it also does not follow that if one does NOT believe in evil, one does not support his stance.
there is a matrix of four possible positions. need i recite them for you?
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #94 |
96. No, Ill give you that. It is tangential |
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I'm just in a reactionary mode, I guess, from the asinine argument from a supposed intellectual. But until I see any rational argument for even the existence of evil, or even a plausible definition, I'm cant so much as entertain the notion (or the tangential argument made today). To go so far as use it as a rationale for war, well, maybe you could understand why I'm a bit hot-headed today.
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #96 |
97. but i see that as typical |
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there is this push, among many intellectuals (or wannabes) to discard such concepts as "evil" as antiquated, non-descriptive, etc.
i simply don't buy it.
nothing i have learned in any scientific field discounts the presence of evil, imo.
the concept of evil is certainly associated with religious thought, but it certainly isn't a requirement of believing in evil, that one believes in any superpower etc.
imo, understanding evil (to whatever extent one can understand it) is useful in understanding the human condition.
my understanding of it comes partly from what i have read, etc. but also what i have experienced firsthand.
but i understand how you could be pissed off at obama, especially considering the whole afghanistan thang.
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #97 |
98. "nothing i have learned in any scientific field discounts the presence of ..." |
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Just about anything thing you can dream up in your head.
But, if you will, can you even define what "evil" is?
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #98 |
101. it's not simply anything i can dream up in my head |
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it's a concept that has been omnipresent in literature, psychology, religion, etc. in literally hundreds of cultures and throughout history.
my scientific inquiries and understanding discounts the presence of all sorts of stuff. ESP for instance.
but not evil.
defining what evil is , is like defining what love is. difficult. doesn't make it any less real. could i describe the color red to you, if you had never seen it, or didn't believe in it?
much smarter men than i have spent thousands of words trying to do what you are asking me to do . i'll (cheaply) defer to them :)
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #101 |
104. If you can't even describe something, nor define it, much less prove it exists... |
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It may have no place in public discourse.
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paulsby
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #104 |
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patriotism, honor, morality, etc. all have a place in public discourse.
none are easy to define.
you take most people, and ask them if they know what evil means and they will tell you yes.
obama and i are in that camp.
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onenote
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Sat Dec-12-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #96 |
121. well at least we know that you don't think that anything bush did was evil |
nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #50 |
70. Serious question... do you honestly believe the following were not evil? |
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Holocaust (big banana and all)
The Armenian Holocaust.
The Balkans... Yes there was genocide...
How about the Guerra Sucia in both Argentina and Chile?
Perhaps the Pol Pot?
Rwanda?
The current mess in central Africa?
Now if you really want to go back in time,
The Indian wars... Canada the US, does not matter.
The Crusades...
In other words you are telling me that there is no evil in the world?
There is... it is how you and I deal with it. And by the way, George Bus and Mr. Chenney also fall in that category of evil... and many people decided to turn a blind eye to it.
Now you may disagree that AQ is evil... (they are) or their potential reach (no quibbles I don't think) or the fact that yes, they are a challenge... or the fact that the us should be leading the effort... or the nature of the effort. But to say that there is no evil is just plain nuts. And people who have done a lot of thinking about it. and in a few cases saw it face to face... Hannah Arendt, Reinhold Nieburh, did a lot of thinking about this. And they concluded that yes there is evil and it is quite banal, hardly recognized and easy to ignore.
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Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #70 |
76. Those human acts sound "human" |
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Humans are horrible, pitiful creatures in their worse, and quite beautiful at their best. Fascinating, they are.
Call it what you wish, but it is what you are.
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Fire1
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Sat Dec-12-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
124. "the greatest generation?" We all say that. Especially the |
Odin2005
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message |
15. Wow, mentioning HISTORY is bad? |
alcibiades_mystery
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
21. Not just "bad," but "bad taste" |
howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
22. No. But contorting it by claiming that the wars today are anywhere as just as WWII. |
MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
31. Perhaps your reading skills are even smaller than I thought. |
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Forget the History Channel. Go directly to Sesame Street. I hear they teach the alphabet there.
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stray cat
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message |
20. I do agree with your deeply disturbed state - you may need help |
BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message |
24. Welcome to DU Howard. Sorry for the rudeness by some here. |
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Stick around, we're not all assholes.
BHN:hi: :hi: :hi:
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howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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Just called it out in GD.
BHN:hug:
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
35. Indeed. I see you are waving. I find that amusing. |
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Some of us at DU may well fit your expression, though, eh?
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BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
38. Yes, waving to WELCOME a newcomer. |
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You might want to try it sometime.
BHN
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
40. I like to wave. Usually, though, I wave goodbye. |
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I leave the welcoming committee chores to others, generally. It's so sad to welcome someone, only to see them disappear without notice.
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BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
43. Thanks for the inspiration- |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 08:43 PM by BeHereNow
You just gave me an excellent idea!
BHN
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
52. I'm always pleased to offer ideas. |
Imajika
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message |
25. I thought that part was great actually... |
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I was so proud listening to Obama give that speech. Seriously, after 8 years of Bush's blathering and incoherence....
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goldcanyonaz
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message |
27. I thought it was great! He's really proving to be a wonderful president. |
MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
36. Thank you for stepping up! |
HughMoran
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message |
33. I like when newbies have the wherewithal to hide their profile and post inflammatory crap |
howard112211
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
34. And why is this inflammatory? |
MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
39. Advil™ will probably take care of the inflammatory process. |
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If not, more drastic measures may be required.
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emulatorloo
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 08:48 PM by emulatorloo
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MineralMan
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
37. It's always entertaining, yes? And then, there's always the |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 08:32 PM by MineralMan
obligatory yoohoo from a real DUer pour encourager les autres.
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Hekate
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Sat Dec-12-09 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
108. He's really trying to pick a fight. How will we know when he gets pizza if his profile is hidden? |
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After an extended bout of trollery I really love clicking on the profile and finding the tombstone. :evilgrin:
Hekate
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gimama
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message |
45. Wow.Thanks for sharing Your opinion, many of us agree |
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& there are PLENTY of threads that share Your views on Pres. Obama,& many of us are annoyed, aggravated & upset about MANY aspects of his speech AND policies, here on DU.. I saw the phrase here, "dogmatic and intolerant", & I think that precisely describes those attacking YOU, because You are 'new' & don't love Pres.Obama unconditionally. Stay strong, stay involved, stay true to YOUR instincts..& welcome to DU, it CAN be a warm & Wonder-FULL Community.Now I'll go put on my asbestos snuggie:)
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HughMoran
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
48. Yeah, we can never have enough "never do right" |
Oregone
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Fri Dec-11-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message |
47. Asinine comparison. Maybe if he mentioned the Aryan/Neo-Nazi movement as a parallel to Al Queda |
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You cannot even stop that movement by imprisoning everyone involved, much less occupying some backwoods piece of land.
I'm sorry, but Hitler had a country, a people, a conventional army, etc. Ya know, shit you can actually drop bombs on.
Oh yeah, and Evil does not exist. Sorry. Humans are just assholes
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leftstreet
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #47 |
proteus_lives
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #47 |
90. So love doesn't exist? |
Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #90 |
100. A chemical reaction that humans appear to biologically desire exists |
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So why ask why? Just do it. It feels good....
And no, "good", as any tangible concept, does not exist. Can you even describe it? There are acts that promote environmental conditions that the majority of humans perceive as pleasurable, but "good"...naaa. And filters...guilt, religion, philosophy, they all influences how humans perceive such environmental conditions,
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proteus_lives
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Sat Dec-12-09 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #100 |
103. Wow, a bad Vulcan impression. |
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message |
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It's disturbing that unfortunately sometimes war is necessary. Hitler's attempt to take over Europe and the Holocaust have always been thorns in a pacifist's world view of how things should be.
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Canuckistanian
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message |
54. Welcome to DU. An auspicious start. |
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Many unrecs, a few agreements and a support post.
Bravo! You'll either be an asset or a pizza destination in no time.
I eagerly await the verdict.
:popcorn:
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Brickbat
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message |
55. Welcome to DU! I found Obama's statement odd as well, and strangely fatalistic. |
Smarmie Doofus
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message |
56. Hmmm... Here's the part that I don't get: |
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>>>>Negotiations cannot convince al Qaeda's leaders to lay down their arms>>>>
Why is *this* necessarily so?
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Bonn1997
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
59. That's a good question |
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message |
57. I'm more upset by the gender exclusive language. What's up with that? |
Oregone
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #57 |
85. LOL. Yes, women can hate too! |
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:) Of all things in this speech to get pissed about....
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Turbineguy
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:39 PM
Response to Original message |
58. As one of my Professors used to say |
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after he used a pipe wrench to beat the shit out of a guy: "You gotta know how to communicate!"
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omega minimo
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message |
61. How far do you understand? |
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"As far as I understand, Nazi comparisons are bad taste at its fullest."
What are you objecting to? Something someone told you to be offended by? Any mention of Hitler? What exactly is Obama's gaffe here, according to you?
"This strikes me as bizarre and wrong on so many levels."
Please explain.
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Raine
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Fri Dec-11-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 10:00 PM by Raine
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NYC_SKP
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message |
63. I thought it was a perfectly appropriate comparison to make. Welcome to DU. |
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Please forgive some of the members and their unkind replies.
:hi:
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provis99
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:07 PM
Response to Original message |
64. I guess anyone who opposed Obama's war is a Nazi appeaser. |
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that's what I got out of the statement.
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BeHereNow
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
67. Yes! There is that insinuation, isn't there? |
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Very good observation.
BHN
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emilyg
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message |
saltpoint
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Fri Dec-11-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message |
68. Before posting, you ought to have run your interpretation by a few people who |
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have longer views into History, as they would likely have told you that your take on it is haywire.
Haywire, bordering on subversive.
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Umbral
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Fri Dec-11-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message |
72. Disturbing? Sure, but when you're accepting a prize for peace while conducting two wars... |
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...wars of aggression no less.... Seriously, could the situation be any more surreal? Obama's trying to defend the indefensible, it's not surprising he would stoop to hyperbole.
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Th1onein
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Fri Dec-11-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message |
74. Welcome to DU, howard 112211. |
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I am deeply disappointed in Obama, too. I'll vote for him again in 2012, though.
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janx
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Sat Dec-12-09 12:49 AM
Response to Original message |
81. I've had a bad day. You are not helping that. |
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I work hard. Please exit.
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JVS
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:04 AM
Response to Original message |
87. Someone should have jumped up and shouted GODWIN! |
leftstreet
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #87 |
ddeclue
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:13 AM
Response to Original message |
89. OMG.. are you kidding? |
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I really miss the old days before Windows dumbed computers down to the point that any idiot could use one...
:eyes:
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Skittles
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Sat Dec-12-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message |
95. what the fuck is wrong with you? |
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ever heard of something called CONTEXT? This context is appropriate. Get a life.
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DailyGrind51
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Sat Dec-12-09 02:07 AM
Response to Original message |
102. Oh, you'll get over it! |
Hekate
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:57 AM
Response to Original message |
107. Obama always chooses his words very carefully, and I agree with him. It's not "bad taste"... |
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Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 04:14 AM by Hekate
... to acknowledge that there is such a thing as evil in the world, and that nothing would have stopped Hitler short of the massed armies of Europe and America.
For their part, Al Qaeda -- a sophisticated operation itself -- sent members here to perform a horrific act of terrorism. I distinctly remember that part. In addition they would be only too happy to complete the work that Hitler started and wipe the Jewish state of Israel off the map. Literally --destroy, kill, exterminate.
The only point of disagreement that I have with Obama is that inasmuch as terrorism is not a country but a strategy, I am not sure that armies can defeat it. But even here Obama seems to have a firm grasp of that reality -- which GW Bush did not. Obama recognizes that there are other tools to use in addition to military might.
So howard112211, I appreciate your concern, but I think you need to reconsider.
Hekate
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Octafish
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Sat Dec-12-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message |
111. NAZI comparisons are most apt, helping explain how the USA has gotten to the state it's in. |
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Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 10:35 AM by Octafish
Obama didn't bring this up, but he should have: Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.BTW: Welcome to DU, howard112211.
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niceypoo
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Sat Dec-12-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #111 |
112. I think some people are hypersensitive because of idiotic teabagger signs |
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It is as if WWII can never be mentioned again. It's stupid to ignore history or sweep it under the rug.
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Hekate
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #112 |
114. Yes. Lack of knowledge... doomed to repeat... and all that. nt |
seeinfweggos
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:20 PM
Response to Original message |
115. running low on anti-obama themes? |
11 Bravo
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message |
116. Perhaps medication is in order? In any case, I wish you a speedy recovery. |
treestar
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Sat Dec-12-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message |
118. Do you think the President should negotiate with al Qaeda? |
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Or claiming that no one tried hard enough to negotiate with Hitler? Are we supposed to forget Nazi Germany ever occurred? Just because Bushco made the comparison dishonestly does not mean no one can ever do so again.
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Vickers
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Sat Dec-12-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message |
119. Of course you are. There now....feel better? |
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Welcome to DU! Enjoy your stay!
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laughingliberal
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Sat Dec-12-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message |
120. The name which may not be spoken. I do believe mentioning Hitler as a historic reference is not |
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exactly the same as a "Nazi comparison." I'm not in favor of our escalation but this appears to be nit-picking and reaching for things to criticize.
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Sat Dec-12-09 04:25 PM
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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DefenseLawyer
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Sat Dec-12-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message |
123. So did he insult Nazis or did he insult al Qaeda? |
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Either way, I'm glad you are looking out for them. I trust if our President goes and says something negative about smallpox you can call him out on that too.
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