2 people + 2 cats living in 175 sq.ft. "home"

[SoCalDem]

Living With Less: New York Couple Manages in 175 Square Feet
by Lloyd Alter, Toronto on 12.10.09
Design & Architecture (less is more)
Images by Angel Chevrestt in the New York Post

http://www.good.is/post/How-Much-Space-Do-You-Take-Up/
It is smaller than many suburban walk-in closets- an entire apartment that is only ten feet by fifteen feet. But the New York Post describes how Zaarath and Christopher Prokop (and two cats) do it. Here's how:

It's an experiment. "I wanted to live adventurously. I wanted to test my limits. I wanted to find the line between my wants and my needs."

They don't cook. "So when you don't cook, you don't need plates or pots or pans. So we use that space for our clothes." And in New York, who does?

They don't have a lot of clothes, and apparently what they have are running clothes. They both jog to work and pick up their work clothes, "strategically stashed at various dry cleaners."

snip for the rest of the article
Calculate your space needs] for you from Treehugger
..and results of the poll

[ProdigalJunkMail]

1. they have no room (nor need) for pots and pans

but they have about 45 bottles of wine or liquor! :-) I guess they need that so they don't get on each others' nerves too much...

sP

[rosesaylavee]

Interesting story but

I am not finding the story at the link? Was wondering just how long this couple thinks they can live there? This doesn't seem like a sustainable lifestyle.

[SoCalDem]

5. oops.. added it. now. but here it is for you

http://www.good.is/post/How-Much-Space-Do-You-Take-Up/

[Fearless]

61. About the size of a large dorm room...

If we can do it... so can older people. :D

[rosesaylavee]

120. Sure... But dorm room implies that you will be leaving someday.

I live in a small home compared to most in my town but this makes me feel claustrophobic. Not even closets for clothes, coats, boots. My son has a dorm room in NYC that is about this size but the bathrooms shared by other people are about half again the size. And he has closet space. This is just amazing to me that they can live there. Hard to retreat to a park during winter weather.

[Feron]

147. My dorm rooms were larger than this apartment.

At the very least, I had a proper closet.

[Fearless]

150. Fewer cats I trust as well.

[KittyWampus]

128. As long as it takes to get signed onto a Reality TV show?

[rosesaylavee]

144. Haha!

Hadn't thought of that but I bet you that's what it is. Ah, a capitalist society. Gotta love it. Sorta.

[midnight]

2. Lot's of alcohol in that tiny space. Interesting experiment. I wonder if the

increase for alcohol increases as the space decreases?

[Flubadubya]

3. Well now, they do keep it nice, don't they?

:)...the cats don't seem to mind. :shrug:

[hlthe2b]

4. They literally live in their litter box...

that's the piece that gets me... no escape. I wonder how much they are really home...

[woodsprite]

6. I couldn't do that. The first thing that everyone in our family does

when we get home from work/school is all go to our separate places to unwind for a bit, then we congregate back in the kitchen to fix/eat dinner. We need that time to decompress from the day.

My camper has more room (and less alcohol) that their apartment, and I can move it to get a different view ;)

[Liberal_in_LA]

81. I could live in that small of a space...by myself, but not with others

Maybe with one cat

[peacebird]

7. cute idea - but the electric cat waterer ON THE COUNTER is just icky...

on the floor maybe, but on the counter?

[SoCalDem]

8. remember, they don't cook there..or even eat there, probably

:)

[Vinca]

9. How about the litter box in the kitchen cupboard??

[TorchTheWitch]

22. what kitchen?

There is no kitchen. It's a desk with storage cupboards and a bar sink.

[Ruby the Liberal]

99. That looks to be the only electrical outlet.

[Shagbark Hickory]

10. Some say "hoorah". But I say IT'S FUCKING DISGRACEFUL!

Nobody should have to live in a shoebox in this country.

Let's be honest. They don't live in a shoebox because they want to "test their limits"
That's a bunch of bullshit.

The reason they live in a shoebox is because they either can't afford to or don't want to pay the money to live in something larger.

Capitalism and the out of control, unregulated and unfair housing and development racket in this country has created the need for people to live in shoeboxes and I for one think it is disgraceful.
That shoebox probably cost them a million dollars too.

I applaud them for saying no to paying even higher prices for housing but this illustrates where our government has totally failed us be regulating housing. Housing shouldn't be an investment or an ATM machine. It should be a source of security. PEople should be able to afford to buy their homes outright and not sell them based on demand. It's not fair.

[TorchTheWitch]

14. amen to that!

It's an attractive looking prison cell. The only reason they seem to be ok with it is because they don't actually LIVE in it. It's just a room to sleep and shower in. They can escape their cell whenever they like but the poor cats are stuck in that one tiny room their entire lives.

[hlthe2b]

32. Yes... I think the cats have no escape at all...

The minimized air exchange, alone does not seem healthy.... let alone the boredom factor.

[Barack_America]

15. Um, eating every meal out and washing all your clothes by dry cleaner isn't free.

They've simply decided to trade space for services.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. About 25 years ago I was banned from a dry cleaner in Manhattan because I complained

about their outrageous prices (compared to dry cleaning in Queens). I cannot imagine what dry cleaning is costing them in Manhattan now.

[Nikki Stone1]

135. Excellent point: that bit about the drycleaning stuck out.

It's not about living space for people who actually live in it.

[stray cat]

17. They don't have to live in Manhattan but the price is good at 150,000

[dysfunctional press]

18. WRONG.

with the money they spend on eating out and having their clothes dry-cleaned, they could most likely easily afford something larger if they chose too.
they could also choose to live somewhere besides NYC.

[TorchTheWitch]

23. They choose to live in that shoebox because they don't actually live in it

It's just a place to sleep, piss, shower and store the cats.

[dysfunctional press]

24. "store the cats?"

that implies that they have another space to take them to- they don't. this is it.

[TorchTheWitch]

28. no, that's not what it implies

In fact, it implies the opposite. People put things in storage because they don't have anywhere else to put them and don't want to get rid of them.

These people don't actually LIVE in that shoebox... their lives are spent elsewhere out and about. Essentially it's a storage unit they can sleep, shower and piss in. That's how they can stand to have the shoebox as their home... they don't actually LIVE in their home.

[dysfunctional press]

30. i wasn't aware that you were personally aquainted with them...

seeing as your profile says that you live in philadelphia...:shrug:

[TorchTheWitch]

33. obviously I'm not and neither are you

I'm going by what they said themselves.

[dysfunctional press]

34. where do they say that they don't live there?

and where did they use the phrase "store the cats"...?

do you have a link to another article about them, or something...? :shrug:

[TorchTheWitch]

39. stop putting words in my mouth

I never said THEY said they store the cats there! Where the hell did you get that? And they said themselves that when not at work they spend their time out and about "exploring the city". They keep most of their clothes in "strategic" drycleaning places around the city, and they eat all their meals out. If all you're doing is sleeping, showering and pissing in your shoebox house you aren't LIVING in it... it's a pit stop. And that being the case, essentially they ARE storing the cats there because they can't bring them with them while they're doing their living out and about.

[dysfunctional press]

54. well- you're putting words in the article, so it's only fair.

:hi:

[rd_kent]

56. Man, you are really milking the limits of acceptable debate. Why so obtuse?

Whats your point? the poster you replied to made a point, it was understandable. Why the need to be so obtuse and argue about it?

[TorchTheWitch]

104. I got the info from the original article

If you'd bother to do any fact checking your own self you'd know what these people have said about the place. The link is right in the article in the link in the OP. Click and read so you know what the fuck you're talking about and can stop arguing with people who investigated themselves and know more than you do about this couple and what they have said because you're too damn lazy to bother finding out for yourself.

Other people in this thread have looked into the matter themselves as I have and have said the same things I have but I notice you aren't following them around arguing your own ignorance as you're doing with me. Now, why is that?

[Stevenmarc]

29. They don't have to they chose to.....

I saw this story last week and they moved from a 1,500sf apartment in NJ to a 700sf apartment then to this one and not because they needed to, they wanted to. I think they are fucking crazy, that's way too small.

[TorchTheWitch]

48. considering their odd lifestyle it works for them

What offends me about it is not just the price of the box but that anyone would think that because they live this way it's normal. It isn't. It also offends me that they think it's normal to keep their cats living in that little box their entire lives is normal. It isn't, and I consider it abusive.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

73. There are plenty of different ways of living on this planet.

The typical American way is pretty abnormal when compared to the rest of the world.

[TorchTheWitch]

105. If they're happy living that way, fine

But it isn't normal especially when you have the money to live in more space, and it shouldn't be touted as acceptable living standards. And it isn't normal to force the cats to spend their whole lives in that shoebox, and that is abusive.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

108. Perhaps they should eat the cats.

I'm curious - how much space could you afford in Manhattan? Perhaps a townhouse at 3.6 million?

[TorchTheWitch]

110. I can't afford the dump I live in now

outside Philly but there's plenty of space for the dog in the house and the fenced yard and I take him on long walks every day. I don't abandon him to take vacations and don't work all night and then party all day elsewhere because he requires my time and attention, and I PREFER to spend that time and attention with him. I KNEW having him required certain sacrifices on my part, and if ever a day comes that I can't make those sacrifices or don't want to than the only fair and humane thing to do is provide him with a home with people who can and will.

It doesn't matter what they can or can't afford it's clear they own cats they abuse by forcing them to live their entire lives in a fucking shoebox by themselves since they don't bother using the place as more than a pit stop station. If you can't give the time, attention and needed space to a pet then you shouldn't have one much less two of them. These people CAN afford to live in much larger space and DID, but they decided that THEIR needs didn't require it, but they forced the cats into this large closet to spend their entire lives. They should have given the cats to people who would properly take care of them rather than abuse them this way just so they can pet a kitty for the few minutes they bother spending in the closet.

I don't WANT to live in Manhattan much less own living space there and couldn't afford a cardboard box under a bridge there. I hate urban living and in particular NY. MY finances and MY living requirements aren't at all at issue here. These people can afford a larger living space but are apparently happy living on the street with a shoebox pit stop station. As I said, if THEY are happy that way, fine, but it is abusive to make the cats live their entire lives trapped in that shoebox without the space, time and attention they require. And all so they can brag that they own "living" space in Manhattan.

[Deja Q]

36. Yup. As long as wages remain proper, housing costs going down...

oh, wait, wages are going down...


And it should not be an investment. Especially if you have to move to different cities just to find a proper job opening?

The shell game is widened and it's bullshit indeed.

[struggle4progress]

67. Read the article. There were originally nine maid's quarters in this building; in the conversion,

eight were combined two-by-two into four apartments that sold for a half-million each. This is what was done with the ninth. These folk say they'll have their mortgage paid off in two years, after which they'll pay "only" $700/mo in maintenance fees. They obviously don't bring work home, don't entertain, and don't hang around the apartment much. They jog to work, stop at the dry cleaner to pick up their clothes, and change at the office. They don't seem impoverished: they're spending their month on trips to Japan and China.

[Spider Jerusalem]

74. They live in NYC.

Space is at a premium in densely populated urban environments. Anything reasonably-sized is going to cost considerably more in Manhattan. (But then everything costs considerably more in Manhattan.)

[verdalaven]

118. I Agree

This article, coupled with the one on the Hong Kong apartments posted here not too long ago, makes me very nervous. The very fact that so many applaud them (their ability to make their space work)makes me wonder if we are being conditioned to accept smaller, cramped, quarters that don't include basic necessities (a KITCHEN, for instance). I admire people who can make their life work while living in extreme poverty, their survival skills and creativity is like fine art. But poverty (or the conditions of poverty) should not be viewed as admirable, because most people would not choose to live that way, however they do because they really have no choice in the matter.

[Shagbark Hickory]

119. That process has been underway for some time. nt

[FreakinDJ]

11. I could see "Flopping" there during the week to avoid commute

but as a "Full Time" living arrangement - I give that couple about 6 months before they are in Divorce Court

[RedCloud]

12. What? No Birds? What should they do with all that air space?

[stray cat]

13. Some parts of the country are more expensive than others - its not a bad deal for the location

[stray cat]

16. $150,000 was the price; you pay for location

http://www.zillow.com/blog/new-york-citys-smallest-apartment-150k-for-175-sq-ft/2009/12/09/

[Shagbark Hickory]

40. Obviously. For $4k you can have a storage shed twice the size installed by a Home Depot contractor.

Again, I applaud them for 'doing with less' but by paying $150k for that, they are part of the problem rather than the solution.

[TorchTheWitch]

42. but their storage shed is prettier

Paying $150,000 for a pretty prison cell you use as a pit stop is obscene.

[Spider Jerusalem]

75. Not in Manhattan.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. Home is where you make it

But those people don't live there they sleep there.

[SoCalDem]

20. Aaaaw... I love possums

:)

[Deja Q]

37. Yes, and we know what's happening with homes lately...

[Ichingcarpenter]

41. That's what happens to a political Centralist

playing possum intellectually

[bvar22]

46. Jim Hightower.

"The only thing in the Middle of the Road
are Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos."--Jim Hightower



(Yes I know that is a Possum, but close enough.)
Hightower hates "Centrists" almost as much as I do.

"Centrism"...because its so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and get to insult those who do!
:party:

[Fumesucker]

51. An armadillo is just a possum on the half shell anyway.. n/t

[Roon]

87. Aww,soo cute!!

I call the big one Bitey "Homer Simpson"

[a la izquierda]

25. Wow and I thought my first studio apt in L.A.

was small at 300 sqft. At the time, we had two little dogs, but when my BF (now hubby) fought, one of us went into the bathroom to cool off.
It took us a year to save enough and find decent jobs to move out.

[StarfarerBill]

26. If they choose to live there and can make it work, I say good for them.

Better that than another suburban McMansion.

:thumbsup:

[jmowreader]

27. Not real impressive--husband and wife driving teams live in far less

Except those folks not only sleep in that tiny space, they also work there. And some of them have several pets.

[barbtries]

31. i instantly thought

must be NYC. well to each his/her own. if they're happy i'm happy for them.

[TwilightGardener]

35. I could almost understand this--almost--if it were a cabin in a great location, and

you could spend much of your time outside on a porch or something. But an apartment--it would be like opting to live in a jail cell with windows.

[valerief]

38. Looks like they don't bathe there either. nt

[hippywife]

44. Look closer...

at the right edge of the picture.

[juno jones]

57. Health club?

They don't get much exercise there either.

[Gman2]

43. Watch MSNBC any night to get better directions for living in a box. Prison.

[Solly Mack]

45. I'll pass

[hippywife]

47. Not sure I could go THAT small but

my husband and I, with two cats (three until last week) live in 869 sq. ft. quite comfortably. He designed and built this house from mostly salvaged materials when he thought he was going to be single the rest of his life. (Heehee!)

Our bedroom is in a loft over the combo living room/kitchen. There's a very large bathroom with recessed space for our washer and to hang clothes (I no longer use a dryer.), another closet under the stairs, and even a small guest room with a twin-sized trundle bed that makes into a full-sized bed when needed.

We've plenty of space, really. :hi:

[SallyMander]

55. Our house is 880 sq ft

Two people, two dogs, two snakes, and a salamander. :D

I think if we had either a garage or a decent basement for storage, it would be perfect! As it is, the closets are a bit stuffed... but it works for us!

:hi:

:hug:

[hippywife]

137. Hiya, sweetpea!

Yeah the closet thing is a bit of a stretch but it helped to ditch the dryer and use the space for extra hanging space for clothes.

Hope you both are well and happy. You are missed. :hug:

[XemaSab]

136. Your house is almost 5 times bigger than theirs

:o

[hippywife]

138. I don't think I'd want any more

or any less. LOL

[highplainsdem]

49. Makes me feel claustrophobic just looking at it..

I once lived in a Murray Hill studio apartment in NYC that was MUCH larger than that, and L-shaped, and with a huge window overlooking a nice garden, but it still had the kitchen appliances along one wall instead of in a separate room, and that made me feel as if I was living in a shoebox. I spent as little time at home as possible, during the months I lived there.

I feel very sorry for that couple's cats.

I don't feel sorry for the couple, though, since they chose that home for reasons I'll never understand.

I was amused by the NY Post's headline (I found that link via the link you posted), which refers to them as a "cozy-crazy couple."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/cozy_crazy_couple_makes_tight_studio_R15ToNFTaJE3c17zkw4efP/1


Editing to add that maybe I shouldn't feel so guilty about shutting my cat in my bedroom at times, such as when cooking something he's likely to try to get into, at too much risk of hurting himself. My bedroom is considerably larger than that apartment, and my window is much larger than theirs, too. I can't imagine keeping two cats in a space as tiny as that shoebox apartment.

[tomm2thumbs]

50. shall I predict these are not Costco shoppers? hehehehe

where would they put anything!

[Berry Cool]

52. What some people seem to be ignoring is that they're saving up to live elsewhere.

They're not living here just because they can't afford anything else. They say something in the article about how they're going to OWN a place in Manhattan in a couple of years, and how many people can say that? (Of course, if this is what they plan to own, it doesn't say much.)

It amuses me to see what their priorities are. They don't cook, but they have a huge cappuccino machine. And the funny thing is, they keep several cans of Drano right next to it. I assume they're careful about what containers they open when preparing their coffee.

I just look at it and it makes me sad what New Yorkers have come to think of as a normal amount of space to live in. I just couldn't live like that. I'd rather be here in Cleveland and pay $850 a month for an apartment that feels like a three-bedroom ranch. Much more room for two cats to enjoy.

[highplainsdem]

88. That shoebox IS what they'll be owning. While still paying $700/mo maintenance.

They think it's a great deal. Crazy...

[iris27]

89. From the way the article read, I'm pretty sure THIS is the place they are saying

they will own. (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/cozy_crazy_couple_makes_tight_studio_R15ToNFTaJE3c17zkw4efP/1) Their 150k mortgage will be paid off in 2 years, at which point they will remodel the place to include a Murphy bed and bigger windows.

[LisaL]

103. They are not saving to live elsewhere.

The place in Manhattan they are going to own is this apartment after they pay off the mortgage.

[Gormy Cuss]

53. It's their home -- no quotes needed. A home is where you live.

As crazy as this seems to people who've never lived in urban areas this little studio was a conscious choice in recognition of their goal to live in Manhattan. It's about half the size of the typical Manhattan studio and certainly not a choice for everyone but I'd bet that a building full of these small spaces would sell out within days if the building were in the right area. It's a great size for a
pied-à-terre or for someone who works long hours or travels frequently. Eating out for most meals is feasible in the city. Their wardrobe parking is a bit unusual but it may work for them, and since they're not home during the day the cats probably are quite happy with the amount of roaming room. It will be interesting to see how long their experiment lasts.

[TorchTheWitch]

111. they don't live there

They said themselves that they travel extensively, eat all their meals out, and spend their time off work exploring the city. The shoebox isn't a home it's a pit stop station by their own admission. If you think the cats are happy living in a closet their entire lives that is not big enough to run in or get away from each other or the stench of their litter box (which I note is not big enough for a cat to shit in comfortably since it's barely the size of a cat) you're kidding yourself.

If this couple is happy living this way, fine and dandy, but it is ABUSIVE to the cats.

[KittyWampus]

130. I'd call this a pied de terre. And it's open to debate whether they "live" there depending on how

you define the word "live".

I really do agree about the cats.

[Gormy Cuss]

146. A)It's not a closet. It's their residence by their own characterization and a great many people

travel extensively and/or are home infrequently even when home is a spacious house in the suburbs.

B) I can't speak for those cats but I've known plenty that were content in small spaces or larger spaces filled with chaos. I respect your opinion that you think it's abusive to the cats but I've lived in cities with cramped spaces and I had college classmates who kept happy cats in dorm rooms smaller than this. Unless you can point to well documented studies showing that this sort of living arrangement is abusive to cats, kindly remember the difference between your opinion and what in reality is good or bad for the cats. And FWIW I wouldn't want to live with a cat in such a small space but I'd rather do that than remove current cats from the household just because I moved to a smaller unit.

[noamnety]

58. New Headline: Pretend poverty is a fun "adventure" for white couple.

Am I supposed to be impressed that they are "testing their limits" by eating out and getting their clothes cleaned at dry cleaners? I know a hell of a lot of people who would love to "test their limits" by being able to pay people to prepare their meals daily, and paying people to do their wash.

Has the author never met a family living in a FEMA trailer?

Seriously, why is this news?

[varelse]

59. Indeed

It's high time someone made that point.

[spoony]

63. Bloody hell, you nailed that! nt

[TorchTheWitch]

112. these people aren't poverty sticken

Why this is news is because they CHOSE to live this way when they can afford much more and DID live in much more space. They have plenty of money to dine out for every meal, dry clean all their clothing and take lots of exotic vacations (where no doubt they stay in hotel rooms far bigger than their shoebox). They have the money to enjoy themselves elsewhere in fine style while claiming this pit stop station where they store their cats is their home when only a tiny fraction of their lives are spent in it.

What pisses me off is the context that this is a normal and affordable way to live and should be acceptable. In other words, they're two whackos imagining they live in a shoebox they're almost never in abusing two cats. No wonder half their storage space is taken up with booze... these nutters think it's more important to have all those bottles of booze close at hand instead of their clothes!

[mdmc]

115. imho this is about location and not about poverty

their place is probably small and expensive. It is in Manhatten (I think. I read this article a while ago. Not news. But interesting none the less).
This couple could rent the entire building that I live in located in Newburgh NY. But they would need to commute to the city. They would need to cross bridges and find parking or take public transit to get to work. They could no longer "jog" to work.

They chose to live like this so that they can live in the city.

[KittyWampus]

132. who said they were "pretending to be impoverished"? YOU are the one laying that image over them.

I find this thread and the replies very, very interesting.

[noamnety]

134. No, of course they aren't. They're just "testing their limits" as an "adventure"

by living the way poor people live on a daily basis (without the help of paid servants and storage all over the city).

[TheMightyFavog]

60. I'd hate to be in that room if someone gets really bad farts...

[tonysam]

62. I thought my 500 sq ft apartment was dinky

It IS too small for me, but I and the two small dogs manage to do okay.

The dogs also have a large backyard to do their business.

I can't fathom living in that sardine can in the OP.

[Cleita]

64. DH and l lived with three cats in a trailer that size for ten years and I did have basic

kitchen equipment and dishes. It's doable. We were able to travel around the country. However, I don't know if I would want to do it in the city. We usually headed for the woods and let the great outdoors be our yard. We mostly lived outdoors when the weather permitted. Our "house" was there mainly for sleeping and storing our stuff. It was a great life style while we were able to do it.

[MercutioATC]

65. Their entire living space is less than half the size of my bedroom!

No thanks.

[uppityperson]

66. I lived in a 8 X 18 trailer for a couple yrs, it was enlightening

I would want a bit more room if there were 2 of us, but it was enlightening to live in that small of a space. Yes, it had cooking, eating, bathroom space in it.

[AbbeyRoad]

68. Poor Kitties

I think it's kind of cruel to have cats in that small of a space. From reading the article, it seems that the couple spends very little time in their apartment. They say, "We're not nesters. This apartment is perfect for someone active. If you want to stay home or entertain, this is just not the apartment for you." Then why did they get cats? I would think an aquarium would be more appropriate.

If they didn't have the cats, I wouldn't really see a problem with this, because there's always something going on in New York. I can easily see not really needing a large space if you spend most of you time out and about and if you don't get claustrophobic.

All that being said, there's a good deal of liquor in there. I thought it was just on the wall rack until I noticed it's on top of the cabinets too. They must bring food back to their place, and drink their own wine, or maybe the drinking helps them forget they live in a dorm room with 2 cats.

[Profprileasn]

69. Amazing.

So much room is often taken up by storing stuff you don't really need.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sabriel]

71. I'd like to see the cats do a Thunder Run in that space

Do they smash into the wall when they try?

[AngryAmish]

72. Imagine the smell...horrifying.

[tonysam]

76. You can bet they have a storage unit

for all of their furniture, etc., for when they get their bigger place in Manhattan.

[Buns_of_Fire]

77. I've recently been playing with some home-design software. I'm only down to 221 sq. ft.

Basically, it's a 15x15 house. Granted, there are compromises, but I designed it for me and me alone, so I'm comfortable with the concept. No bed, but since I've slept on a couch for the last 15 years or so, that's no great loss. No oven, but since a lot of what I eat is nuked in the microwave, I wouldn't miss it. It includes a standard-size refrigerator (for the Guinness), a full bath, AND room for a computer desk (a small one)!

I wound up designing free-standing shelving in lieu of traditional walls, so there's enough space for stashing at least some of the crap that owns me. And that's what it boils down to, I'm convinced...

I believe that we don't really NEED all the space we allocate to ourselves. Let's face it, a lot (if not most) of the space we inhabit is just there for all our STUFF. Our STUFF decides how much space we require.

Less STUFF, less space. It wouldn't work for the Duggars, or for hosting a formal dinner party, but I think I could live with it.

[tonysam]

78. I am going to keep my "stuff," thank you.

To each his or her own. I have spent years getting the things I enjoy, and I am not giving them up.

[TorchTheWitch]

114. most of my stuff is hobby oriented

Most hobbies require stuff that wouldn't fit in that shoebox. Most people have heirlooms and keepsakes they'd never want to get rid of. Most people have art they like to see on their walls. Most people like to have clothes that aren't stashed somewhere else so they have to go to a storage place just to get dressed. Most people think it's more important to have storage space for your clothes than storage space for your booze. These people are nuts.

[Shagbark Hickory]

83. That really is pretty cool. You can build DIY and own it free & clear. Very tempting.

With a home that size you can also more than likely be able to work with a relatively small solar system too.

Another nice thing about a small home, and I realized this from browsing Ikea, it's that if you start out with a tiny home, you can afford to have a really luxurious home. Marble floors, granite tops, all of that.

[Cetacea]

79. By all means, just don't involve innocent animals. Especially a Mau.

That cat on the right looks like an Egyptian Mau, the fastest cat on the planet. Probably going stir crazy in there.:grr:

[highplainsdem]

93. Almost any cat would go stir-crazy in there.

It's cruel to the cats to keep them in such a small space, when that couple could afford a much larger home if they were willing to commute or work elsewhere.

This couple seems willing to trade everything, including their pets' wellbeing, to be able to brag that they own an apartment in Manhattan.

Even though most people would find that apartment laughable.

[tonysam]

96. They DID come from a larger place.

They probably didn't want to get rid of their cats. This "apartment" is considered a temporary place by this couple.

[LisaL]

102. No it's not. Nowhere in the article does it say they consider it

"temporary." They are hoping to pay it off in 2 years and then they can say they own a place in Manhattan (this apartment is the place).

[NJCher]

80. I like this idea

I often long for a place like this. Sometimes I am so busy with work and the outdoors (I am an extreme gardener) that I want one good-sized room and a bath. Teensy minimalist kitchen. And that's about what this is.

When I am home, what do I do? Sit here on the internet. Do I need 2000 square feet for that?

How much time do we really have after work and meals? Not that much.

I could really see this in Manhattan. This couple gets their nature fix at Riverside Park, they say. And with all there is to see and do in Manhattan, I can see where this would be quite a practical solution.


Cher

[roguevalley]

97. I lived in an apartment with a livingroom/kitchen, bathroom and

bedroom for a year. It was about 200 square feet. Maybe. It was just me and a moose that wandered into the house one day when the door was open. It was a strange experience. Only cable made it truly nice. That and the fact that I only had to walk fifty steps to work. :)

[aikoaiko]

82. To each their own, but I would want to live that way (especially not for long) even for NYC

Maybe by myself for while, but definitely not with someone else.

[Silent3]

84. My bedroom is bigger than that...

...not even counting the bathroom and the closet.

Still, if I were younger, didn't have pets (I wouldn't want to squeeze into such a tiny space with two cats like they do), had all of the amenities of a big city available to me, and wasn't into things like having a home theater (which I lived fine without most of my life, but wouldn't want to give up now that I have it), I could still see living in a space like that. It wouldn't be that bad at all.

Even with a real kitchen in our house, neither my wife nor I are fond of cooking much, so we eat out way too much too, and don't have this couple's excuse for it.

The weirdest part of this to me is using perpetual dry cleaning as a form of storage for all of your clothing. I'd go for a small wardrobe and under-the-bed storage, and use a little more of that empty floor space and wall space for storage too.

[tonysam]

85. Only if it were a second residence would it be acceptable.

Otherwise, one would go stir crazy in there. I can't imagine sharing that tiny a space with another person.

[comtec]

86. Welcome to Europe...

seriously no sympathy
We Americans live too lavishly.
If there were more places like this, and we'd adjust to it, we could easily solve the housing problem in the country.
One reason they can pack so many people here in Europe is because the multi-room apartments are all mini-housing.
I was looking at a place a month ago. 490 in a major(ish) city. it was one room with shared bath/shower.
there were 4 rooms, each for one person.
People also spend time outSIDE of their homes, socializing, going to the pub, drinking, doing stuff :)

just because there are 500 channels on TV doesn't mean we have to watch them all... that's what a dvr is for ;)

Rooms should only be for sleeping and the basics.
We should spend the majority of our time with each other in the world.
maybe we'd be better to the world if we did.

but that's just my opinion... i could be wrong.

[TorchTheWitch]

106. not everyone wants to spend their time with other people

I'm very much of a loner. I'd go stark raving mad having to spend so much of my time with others. I don't like going out or being out all the time. My job is a party atmosphere, and when not at work I want to be alone with my dog and QUIET. That's part of the reason I'm a night person... at night it's QUIET and I don't have to hear all the cars on the street, the neighborhood kids playing and all the other human noises being made during the day while I sleep.

I hated apartment living because of having to hear all the noises of my neighbors in their apartments and knowing they could hear all of mine. When I'm at home I want to be able to sing in the shower, run up and down the stairs with the dog playing, listening to music or watching TV or dancing around the living room without having to worry about anyone else being bothered by noise I'm making or knowing what I'm doing because of being able to hear it.

I grew up in a big family so I know all about the problems of living with other people and I don't want it. Privacy and quiet is vital to me and some amount of that is vital to everyone.

[comtec]

143. Very true, I am a recluse myself

but the majority of people aren't

But it might make people appreciate what they have more if they had a bit less of it.
Not mandated of course, but make less available.
We Americans do waste a lot of space, and resources.

That space is too small for 2 people to cohabitate. double would be adequate.
as you say, privacy is nice.

[cliffordu]

90. Feh. My wife and I lived in a 34' airstream for 8 years with FIVE cats.

[uppityperson]

107. yeah, well, look where you live you hippy you!

When I lived in my 20 ft trailer in the woods I said I had a nice contained kitchen/bathroom/sleeping area but my living room was really really big.

[ThomThom]

91. Look at all that wall space they are wasting

could have shelves
also they have no books..... how can anybody live with out books
or computer in this day and age

[tonysam]

95. As I said above,

this couple in all likelihood has their items in storage when they moved from their previous place. Nobody lives that frugally.

[TorchTheWitch]

126. I have an entire room of books

It's basically a large closet with two windows but it's my library. I can't live without books. I don't understand how anyone can live without books.

Most of the tiny bit of storage space is dedicated to booze. These people find it normal to stash the clothes they were at dry cleaners so they can have more space for booze. That is fucked up and says a hell of a lot about these people.

[DemoTex]

92. We had 4 adults + a dog in my 225 sq foot abode for a week last summer.

Three adults slept on the floor in sleeping bags and one on the cot with the dog. Most of the time, however, it was just the dog and me.


My 15' X 15' "home" for five months in the Oregon wilderness

[roguevalley]

98. ah, Bend. :) My apartment was about 1/3 smaller.

[NMMNG]

94. I've lived in small spaces before

for limited periods of time out of necessity, but that would drive me batshit crazy. I don't need anything fancy like granite countertops or the newest everything. But I would like something with space.

[EndersDame]

100. When I was In High School I lived in a Motel Room with Mom and 2 siblings after we were evicted

Believe me it sucked the only privacy we had was the bathroom . My dad decided to stop paying the child support that my mo was counting on and got behind in rent. It sucked my paycheck that I got from my after school job went to saving up for a deposit and first months rent. I think it was probably hardest on my 17 yo brother

[XemaSab]

139. That happened to me too

You're right; it sucked.

We also lived in a 1 bedroom apartment (about 450 square feet) with another family. :(

[tuckessee]

101. They must be illiterate.

175 square feet wouldn't hold even the stacks books designated "to be read soon" let alone my rather substantial library.

[nomaco-10]

116. Please pray tell why....

you have so many books that they would take up so much square footage.

I actually read the books I buy and then pass them on.

You might want to reconsider your collection of books, or take in an episode of Hoarders on A&E.

[XemaSab]

140. You're not kidding

My books are special to me, and I need them with me. :)

[Raine]

109. I couldn't do

but if they can good for them. :thumbsup:

[nomaco-10]

113. I love it....

I guess it depends on what part of the country you're from. When I was in NY, 175 sq ft was considered palatial. When I was sent to southern ca, a media room, bowling alley or a wine room was considered necessary.

Southern people where I come from, LOVE and covet their flimsily built Mac Mansions.

Go figure.

[boppers]

117. WOW, they must have one heck of a tiny carbon footprint.

I did 4.5x8 feet twice in my life, 27 months total (it was in cars), having running water would have been great.

I'm somewhat shocked by all the posters who "need" so much more, as if space was an actual "need", rather than a luxury... these next 50 years will be hard on them.

[SoCalDem]

121. It's always about "stuff".. Stuff controls us.. We save it and collect it

but in the end, our kids end up laughing about all that JUNK that Mom & Dad saved, or they fight over it..

Next year we are planning a get-together with our grown sons..no wives or the girlfriend..just them and us.,. and we are going to go through all the boxes and look in every nook & cranny..and make them TELL us what exactly they want us to keep saving..or better yet take that stuff home with them NOW..

Having gone through the deaths of parents & elderly relatives, I KNOW the nonsense that happens..even with a will..
If all 3 are together with us, there can be NO question as to what Mom & Dad "wanted them to have"..or what they really do even want..

Stuff that NO ONE wants, we can quit "saving"..:)

We want our grown sons to continue to love each other for the rest of their lives, and want to spare them the petty disagreements that pop up ...over stuff..

[boppers]

123. Two lamps and a table.... that was what I wanted, and got.

My grandparents had saved several hundred pounds of clothing. Literally.

In case we wanted it.

[noamnety]

122. I'm finding the article and many of the DU responses offensive.

1. This is how MUCH of the world lives. I find it very odd that people are looking into this photo like missionary/anthropologists in shock that people could survive in that "tiny" space. Are we as a group (of liberals, no less), REALLY that clueless as to how people in poverty live? It's embarrassing.

2. The cats. It follows that if people around the world (including the US) are living this way, so are their children.

When we express this much outrage <--------------------------------------------------> over cats living in a small space, and this much outrage <---> over children being raised in the FEMA parks, something is wrong.

Diamond FEMA park:


We express this much outrage: <> at Iraqi refugee children living at the Tanf camp Refugee Camp between the guard towers of the borders of Iraq and Syria, with no country willing to allow them to enter.


3. In case my previous post was misunderstood, I am not knocking living in small spaces. I've done it (in a much less privileged way that what this couple's doing). I support articles encouraging that lifestyle. What I DO object to is the attitude by the couple and the author that this couple is somehow oh-so-clever - like they've discovered something completely new and are groundbreakers in that regard - for living (much better than) how so many people already live. That's why they are coming across to me as the most offensive type of missionaries to another culture, and why their whiteness is so in my face in that photo (and I'm saying that as a white person). They're adopting an excessively upscale version of how people live and are acting like they are among the first people ever to live that way, as if the other millions of folks who already live that way or can only dream of living that way aren't really fully human and this couple is breaking ground by "testing the limits" of human endurance.

The article could have been written from a different perspective and I wouldn't have found it so offensive.

[SoCalDem]

124. Every article written, "can" be accepted in different ways

I'm pretty sure that this one was written for a NYC audience (primarily), and was written to show that "stuff" and space for stuff, need not control us.

Some expand on the theme and see it as little more than a bourgeoisie attempt at downsizing and as a slap in the face to people who HAVE to "live that way"..

The truth is, that no matter how many singular "couples who downsize & get written about" there are, little will change for the truly downtrodden, BUT, if those small articles spur even a few people here and there, to reconsider the wasteful lives they lead, it can start to make a change...or at least to help people understand how their profligacy affects others.

The author of that article did not write it as a personal affront to you, or to "make light" of the horrendous housing options for the very poor..

If you google back to the post-Katrina era at DU, you will find multiple threads about the horrible living conditions imposed upon the storm survivors...many here have done hands-on-work, and others have donated, and continue to do so.

This is one-little-article about one-specific-couple, and how they are dealing with the exorbitant housing costs of living in NYC. It's their personal choice, because maybe they don't want the expense of commuting to their jobs and "living" in a suburban enclave. ...perhaps even out-of-state.. or maybe they actually enjoy the "tidiness" of their current life.

Perhaps they will go a different way, once they retire..

Cats actually don't "need" a lot of space to be perfectly happy. They have food, water, a place to sleep, and with a small space, I'm betting their litter box is kept VERY CLEAN :)

It looks like they have their people to cuddle with at night, and a soft comfy space to day-snooze while their people are oput, enjoying the city they chose to live in..

I would never live that way (by choice), but I see nothing wrong about their choice to..or the choice of the article writer to write about a couple he/she though to be interesting:)_

[TorchTheWitch]

131. you're missing the point

This couple doesn't actually LIVE in the place. It's nothing but a pit stop station to sleep, shit, and shower. By their own admission they spend almost no time there, therefore, it can't really be defined as their home. They travel extensively, and when not at work they're out and about exploring the town. They're claiming this place is just fine to live in, but by their own admission they don't LIVE in it since they're almost never there. Evidently, they have no hobbies or interests that require stuff, nor do they have books, or art on the walls or any of the other things that make a home a home that people LIVE in. They stash their clothes at various dry cleaners because they would prefer to have that space filled with booze... if that doesn't tell you how fucked up this couple is with their $150,000 Manhattan shoebox they can brag that they own I don't know what will.

No, making two cats live in a fucking closet by themselves since their owners don't spend any time with them is cruel. Check out the litter box... how does a cat even fit in it to take a shit comfortably? It looks like the entire cat would barely fit into it! How do the cats get any exercise living full time in this shoebox? How do they get away from the stench of the litter box or get away from each other? Instead of spending all their money dining out for every meal, stashing their clothes, taking exotic long vacations, paying someone to clean the shoebox since they obviously don't own a vacuum cleaner or other cleaning supplies (they admit they don't even have a trashcan!) they could have a larger place and STILL be able to brag that they own property in Manhattan without abusing the cats.

[SoCalDem]

133. Maybe you should offer to adopt their cats?

I don't understand why "you" are so angry , but you are definitely entitled to your opinion.. I seriously doubt that the author published this just to piss you off, but you seem quite invested in taking it very personally.

Many people where "I" live, have 4,000 sq. ft. "boxes" they call home, but because they are working 18 hrs a day to afford the payments, they use them as "...a pit stop station to sleep, shit, and shower. By their own admission they spend almost no time there, ..." These folks "at the other end" have also chosen a lifestyle which "you" may not approve of, but their pets have a pretty cushy crash-pad all to themselves..

Lighten up, smell a flower, have a cup of tea..don;t take it so personally :hug:

[goldcanyonaz]

125. We lived in an RV with our huge dog for a few years, it's not all that uncommon.

Our dog was happy and so were we.

We're a very close knit family so I'm sure that's what made us so successful in living that way.

After living in the RV for a few years even the smallest of homes seemed like luxury living to us.

The only thing I ever missed when living in an RV was a bathtub, other that that I had no problem.

[Ichingcarpenter]

127. Dry Cleaning and Laundry prices in Manhattan from the web

Right down the street from them.


http://www.alfadrycleaners.com/prices.php

Ridiculous, they must be filthy rich to pay those prices....... get it?

[XemaSab]

142. They're paying 600 a month in dry cleaning!

:o

[Vickers]

129. We have a *closet* that's 104 square feet.

:wow::wow::wow::wow::wow:

[DBoon]

141. "our house is a very very very small house..."

.. with two cats hiding there.
Life used to be so hard
Now everything is easy
'Cause of you
And our la,la,la, la,la, la, la, la, la, la, la....

[ima_sinnic]

145. gee, how "homey," with all those personal touches, books, magazines, pictures on the walls, rugs ...

-- oh, wait. Is "prison cell" the next trend in interior decorating? Gee, it's right up Martha Stewart's alley. :eyes:

[notadmblnd]

148. that's not a home. It's a place to sleep.

[Blue-Jay]

149. I bet that place smells like feet, ass, and cat piss.