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New treatment for soldiers with PTSD to be done by drill sergeants, positive thinking.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:28 PM
Original message
New treatment for soldiers with PTSD to be done by drill sergeants, positive thinking.
A psychologist at Huffington Post points out that the new treatment being prescribed by the Pentagon for soldiers with PTSD is more like positive thinking. Here is an important paragraph from his post:

Vets with PTSD: When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again--Tell Him to 'Think Positively

...the upper echelon in the Pentagon, without the consultation, support, and agreement of military mental health professionals, decided to divert potential mental health treatment funds to what is a pseudo-treatment when applied to treatment and prevention of PTSD. Upon investigation it appears that this "treatment" is designed more to manipulate troops into denying their need for care than to actually treat them.


Here is more about the new Pentagon decision to treat PTSD with positive thinking.

So what is really going on here? In truth, the military has once again retained the positive psychologists, this time to help it use limited mental health resources to try to suck one last measure of devotion from a bone weary combat force many of whom have already been through multiple deployments. It is doing this under the guise of trying to prevent depression and PTSD.

The effects of repeated deployments - particularly with short "dwell times" at home stations between them are cumulative, General Casey has acknowledged. "All our studies show that the more times you deploy with little time between deployments, the more susceptible you are to having mental fitness challenges," the General said. In this regard it is telling that the new program will not be implemented by trained mental health professionals. Instead, it will be administered by drill sergeants. As Seligman conveniently notes, ''They are the teachers in the army"


This part really strikes home. The author points out that it could be saving resources for the continuance of war.

Is this to help the soldiers be more resilient or is it to make them more compliant and to gripe less. If it is the latter, why can't we just say that?

Of course, the reason is that we prefer to deceive and manipulate than to confront the truth about the excessive demands we are making on our troops and pony up the added resources we need if we are going to remain a nation at war.


In my mind this kind of "positive thinking" is actually manipulation. It is being used by religion and business in America to keep people from questioning their circumstances, perhaps to keep them more complacent.

In one of her columns Robyn Blumner of the St. Pete Times spoke of this issue.

The impotence of positive thinking

She mentions Joel Osteen's book, The Secret:

The Secret became a runaway bestseller by telling readers that they could have anything they want just by imagining it. The book was obviously unadulterated bunk, but it sold madly as people grasped at any chance to better their lives. One has to wonder if such magical thinking would have been so popular if people felt they had temporal power to change the conditions of their work and prospects. The reason that so many Americans work at jobs that don't pay enough is not that they don't channel enough positive energy into getting a better salary, but that wages have been stagnant for 30 years. And the reason that wages have barely budged is that America's wealthiest households have kept slicing themselves a larger piece of the income pie.

Between 1979 and 2007, the top 1 percent of American households saw their share of all pretax income nearly double while the bottom 80 percent had their share fall by 7 percent. Ehrenreich quotes the New York Times saying, "It's as if every household in the bottom 80 percent is writing a check for $7,000 every year and sending it to the top 1 percent."

Every working stiff in the bottom 80 percent should be outraged and politically motivated to force change. But if everyone is convinced of the convenient nostrum that our own attitude controls how much we are paid, then workers won't band together to demand a larger share of our national prosperity. This positive thinking message is a kind of opiate that has been particularly effective on the white-collar corporate work force. Ehrenreich documents how corporations hire motivational speakers to convince laid-off workers that their job loss is "an opportunity for self-transformation." Somehow, she says, white-collar workers have accepted positive thinking as a "belief system" that says a person can be "infinitely powerful, if only they could master their own minds."


That refers to Barbara Ehrenreich's book Bright-Sided.

Relentless positive thinking

And Ehrenreich reminds us again that this is such a convenient policy for business leaders.

"But nowhere did it find a warmer welcome than in American business, which is, of course, also global business. To the extent that positive thinking had become a business itself, business was its principal client, eagerly consuming the good news that all things are possible through an effort of mind. This was a useful message for employees, who by the turn of the twenty-first century were being required to work longer hours for fewer benefits and diminishing job security. But it was also a liberating ideology for top-level executives. What was the point in agonizing over balance sheets and tedious analyses of risks — and why bother worrying about dizzying levels of debt and exposure to potential defaults — when all good things come to those who are optimistic enough to expect them?"


Bryant Welch's post at Huffington Post shows his true alarm as a psychologist at this method being used on our military.

This makes returning veterans a ticking time bomb for serious mental illness with a very real danger of violence to themselves, their loved ones, and the general public. As a psychologist who has treated many serious cases of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, it was a jaw dropping experience to learn that under a new $119 million military program these young men and women who have sacrificed so much will have their PTSD addressed with a superficial, psychological treatment based loosely on Norman Vincent Peale's Power of Positive Thinking, known in this generation's iteration as "positive psychology" or the "psychology of optimism.

There is no evidence that the techniques of positive psychology can prevent or ameliorate the effects of PTSD. When its adherents' attempt to extrapolate simplistic studies done on normal junior high students to military combat troops struggling with military traumas they are misleading the military, the public, and, most importantly, the troops.


Thinking positive is a good thing, but not to the exclusion of needed medical care. Not to the exclusion of common sense.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:30 PM
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That is not very nice to say.
You really should change your subject line.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm going to assume sarcasm in this case, until I hear something
different. I can't imagine any decent person actually holding such an unprincipled opinion.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. The FACT is that once you raise your hand, more than any other situation you can think of, IT is no
longer about you.

When you swear-in, you are no longer you. You ARE under the UCMJ and ALL things are submitted to the mission and the chain-of-command. You don't exist. THIS is the ultimate sacrifice of Enlisted military, their humanity.

And any measures you take to establish your individual existence CAN be met with Ultimate Force, so though I agree that an individual does need to be prepared to do so when necessary, s/he also cannot bitch about consequences that you agreed to up front. Y - O - U are Government Issue property.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. You are incorrect. Every serviceman or woman is an individual,
and the military treats each with the respect they have earned, for the most part. There are those in power in the military who do not do so, but they are in the minority. Yes, every soldier knows that he or she faces danger, and accepts that as part of the job.

However, each one also knows that, if injured, every effort will be made to save their lives and restore them to health as far as is possible.

You are speaking of that which you do not know. Perhaps out of ignorance, or perhaps out of malice, but you are quite wrong. Every field commander, officer, and NCO is charged with doing all that is possible to guard the welfare of the troops under their command. Almost all take that responsibility as a sacred duty.

We honor military service in this country, both within the military and outside of it. We have great memorials to the sacrifices our men and women in uniform have made.

You are, quite simply, wrong. I hope that is simply ignorance and not malice. If it is malice, then you join the other poster in my contempt.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. It isn't malice. It is the truth that there ARE limits to what the command can do, depending upon
how I decide to assert my personhood. The conventional response to ir-reconcilable differences is to get the GI out, but even that is not gauranteed as we saw in Ft. Hood recently, an aberration to be sure, but still very much the product of a system that could/would not adapt to that individual.

Of course, I am not just referring to command responsibilities to the injured here.

I am a veteran and I know several veterans, including a couple from our present endeavors in Afghanistan and Iraq and there are still several active duty in My Family.

My point here is that the concern for individuals is to the extent that it serves the mission, for it to be otherwise, there would be no mission.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. P.S. I do not hold with the contempt expressed in post #1 in this thread, but people Must stop kidd
ing themselves about what the Military is: your concerns about Why/What/When/Where/How, much more so than in civilian environments, no longer belong solely to you.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. P.P.S. My 2nd husband was part of the JAG's staff on Okinawa during VN.
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 03:36 PM by patrice
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
90. I think it may be the other way around
It's a minority in command that treats you respect, the majority treats you like shit. Or maybe it was just my unit and I'm not the only one. A 1SG accused a Sgt of malingering when in fact he had a leg injury from an EFP where his passenger died. When the Maintenance Platoon Sergeant developed a case of TBI the unit screwed him and he was one of the rah, rah types. We went out around the same time and he told me the first thing I do when I get home is smoke a big fat one.

I could tell you so much more but it's personal but I'll leave it that. As far as the other poster I STRONGLY disagree with him. They are individuals and they have every right to complain when they get the short end of the stick.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:33 PM
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3. Deleted sub-thread
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:34 PM
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I flat disagree.
Among other reasons, thousands were career service members many years before the Iraq/Afghanistan years.

That aside, the OP is on target, IMO.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:38 PM
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. I have children I helped to raise, in the military.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:42 PM
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. deleted because I decided it wasn't worth a response
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 03:43 PM by Obamanaut
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:33 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:01 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:04 PM
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is or should be a crime.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is a very dangerous and completely ineffectual policy
It will cost far more than the 119 million dollars budgeted to fund it.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. yea sure, tell the obese not to eat...or a cancer victim to workout....the army is dumber than shit
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. It's not dumb; it's in denial.
The military can't acknowledged that combat by its very nature induces post trauma.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. More magical quasi-religious thinking. "Works" only to a very limited extent.
And, certainly, NOT forever and under any and all circumstances.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. my brother in-law self treated his PTSD with marijuana along with counselling
he's doing much better and says he feels like a person again.
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. I never tire
of reminding all of the vets' plight in the current eternal wars fought by "volunteer," army.


Where's Obama's Casualty Plan? - VCS Offers Five Point Outline

"...VCS appreciates that Veterans Affairs (VA) Secretary Shinseki attended the President’s speech at West Point, Shinseki’s alma mater, symbolizing former President George W. Bush’s precipitous Iraq War as well as the need to care for our veterans.

However, Obama offered no words about VA or veterans, a significant oversight not missed by veterans' advocates, including Veterans for Common Sense. In addition to military preparations for a wider war, our nation needs increased military and VA efforts to handle tens of thousands of new casualties, especially for the unseen wounds of war: traumatic brain injury (TBI), depression, post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and suicide.

Last week, Veterans for Common Sense publicly demanded that the Administration implement a casualty plan. After all, these are now Obama’s wars, these are Obama’s casualties, and they are Obama’s full personal responsibility. There is still no casualty plan, a serious problem first raised by VCS on CNN in October 2006, months before the Walter Reed scandal was widely exposed.

While there continues to be outstanding emergency medical services on the front lines saving many lives every day, let us be very clear: our Nation shall not repeat the mistakes after the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and the first eight years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, where the long-term medical needs of our service members and veterans were neglected..."

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.php/veterans-category-articles/1519-vcs



Just think if it is this bad for our "official," vets, what happens to the mercs over there, you know that other tens of thousands of private soldiers in the employ of BW et al? I read a great book by John Lescroat recently, "Betrayal," which portrays the recent years in the Iraq boondoggle and what occurs more accuately than any news depiction. (great surprise there) I have spoken to vets of the middle-east adventures and their account is more like "Hurt Locker," another great depiction, than the official sanitized happy talk news of victory (?) just around the corner, etc. Hurt Locker was tough to watch but left me glad that I watched it. It ended up being more about PTSD, its effects, and what being addicted to adrenelin is like on the young peoople caught up in the "Wars."


Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is a reversion back to the attitudes of WWI, when
the term for PTSD was "Battle Fatigue." At that time, it was considered to be nothing more than cowardice. It took some time for attitudes to be change. Apparently, now, some want to go back to that early, unfeeling time. This is pitiful.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. A lot of combatants in WWI were actually pretty good about that
I remember working with some training manuals from the British during the war which were pretty clear on treating it as equivalent to a physical wound and not simple 'cowardice,' although I don't think they really understood that until around the time of the Somme. Things went up and down since, though. Militaries have this tendency to go in and out of these periods of having some fairly enlightened sympathy about such things followed by waffling off to near the other extreme; it's one of the areas in which their normally-alright institutional memory isn't so hot.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. It was shell shock in WWI, then battle or combat fatigue #2.
With highly mobile industrialized "what front lines?" warfare, troops have no relief from sensory overload. Best analogy I've come across, it's like being in a lethal rave club 24/7. Pre- industrial days, a soldier's combat experience was generally speaking 90% boredom, 10% terror - long breaks between battles, now the 'fun' never stops.

It is pitiful and fruitless: "The floggings will continue until morale improves."
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. You're right. I had the terminology reversed. Thanks!
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
52. Yes it really is pitiful.
I would love to see whoever made up this program thrown into a Hummer to experience an IED going off under the vehicle.

Let them live what they refuse to understand and then maybe they would understand it!


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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Drill sergeants rather than mental health specialists? FUBAR!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Agreed.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. They should just shoot a few of these malingerers, like the British did
with the so-called 'shell-shocked' Tommies in WWI.

That will bring the rest into line, and stop all this PTSD nonsense.


After all, most of the enlisted are from the lower classes, which needs to be thinned out anyway, and taught a lesson to do as they are told by their betters, without complaint.










Do I really need the sarcasm smiley?


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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Nope. Your sarcasm was clear, unlike that of the
cowardly poster above.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. I am glad that they are putting the fate of those damaged souls
under the healing care of the DI's, who, no doubt, will 'cure' troops of their maladies in short order, proclaim them fit for duty, and send them back into the line of fire where they belong.

Or cashier them out of the service, and let them fend for themselves, in a country uncaring of their plight.




Sometimes I am angry as to what this country has become.

Sometimes I am saddened beyond words.

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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Not all DIs are monsters or even uncaring.
What they are is completely unprepared to provide mental health counseling. Some will honestly try to help; most will recognize the bs for what it is and go through the motions.

This is de ole passing the buck redo and it would be funny if it weren't so potentially tragic.

What is truly horrific is many of these noncoms probably have post trauma themselves.

By the way, this 'treatment' of vets and soldiers is nothing new. Read up on the fate of the soldiers who had influenza 1918/19. The only reason the vets of WWII got a decent deal was there were too many of them to ignore.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. You're right about the DI's sarge43. I had one that was a tough little SOB who about killed us
during basic, but we loved him because he had a sense of humor, he looked after us, and he knew when to let up. We would have followed that guy anywhere. Then, there was the other arrogant, belligerent, ignorant, redneck SOB whose answer to everything was to "take step out back and I'll take off my stripes". We hated that motherfucker and probably would have fragged his sorry ass if we had been in a combat situation.

The first DI would have been smart enough and caring enough to learn how to help troops with PTSD. The other one would have called them cowards or babies.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Oops. self delete.
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 07:02 PM by bertman


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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Good 'ens and bad 'ens, just like everyone else.
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 07:30 PM by sarge43
Most of them, being career noncoms, will recognize this as the hot potato and buck pass that it is. Command can not solve the problem, so the stuff starts flowing down hill and the rankers get dumped on. When it fails, quick and easy blame and who cares about some DIs who everyone hates anyway.

So, as noted above, some will try to help. Of course, the five hours of briefings on the subject were a joke, so they're pretty much in the dark. As one of them said during a smoke break, "WTF! If the head shrinkers don't know what to do, HTF are we suppose to?" Most will go through the motions and CYA just in case this SNAFU turns into a cluster fuck. A few will do more damage and with the exception of one get away with it. The one will flogged through the fleet to modify the outrage and booga-booga the troops.

Same song, different verse, a little bit louder and much, much worse.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. Big K&R . Sad to hear about this new "treatment" for such a serious problem.
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 02:58 PM by Overseas
And it is more of that Republican claptrap. If you're poor, you're just not thinking positively enough about getting rich. Yeah, that's it. If you've been evicted, just imagine yourself in a nice comfy new place and God will make that happen. If you're bankrupted by medical bills, maybe you weren't praying hard enough. Try harder.

We wouldn't want people to think about the parallels between the late 1920's crash and the 2008 Bush Depression. No no no. So glad you quote the part of Barbara Ehrenreich's book in which she zeroes in on those devastating realities.

And here's our TFC focusing in on the core issues behind our widespread malaise:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7214807


--------------
Soldiers' PTSD however, is so much more intense. To treat it like general depression is really insulting to our troops, and the psychiatric profession. Flashbacks, nightmares, and intense anxieties can't be simply wished away.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. More about Bryant Welch, Huff Post writer.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bryant-welch

"Bryant L. Welch, J.D., Ph.D is a clinical psychologist and attorney and author of State of Confusion: Political Manipulation and the Assault on the American Mind. (Thomas Dunne Books, St. Martin's Press, June, 2008.) Dr. Welch graduated from Harvard College and received a juris doctorate from Harvard Law School and a Ph.D. from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

After completing his education Dr. Welch joined the UNC medical school faculty and practiced clinical psychology for ten years . In 1986 Dr. Welch moved to Washington, DC to build the American Psychological Association's Practice Directorate.. He was the first Executive Director for Professional Practice of the American Psychological Association and had overall responsibility for all APA programs relating to the practice of psychology including government relations, legal and regulatory affairs, marketing, state psychological associations, and public relations."

He wrote another post called The Right Mental Health Care for Returning Vets: Neglecting Them This Time Will Be Dangerous

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Oh, good. The "Snap out it!", "Shape up, you maggot!" method of pschotherapy.
Or, perhaps, the Positive Thinking approach, "Feel good about yourself when you kill someone, imagine rainbows."

:puke:
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Oh!! We really need somekind of dark-humor rofl smilie for that one!!!
Imagine this one with horns :rofl: and cloven hoofs!
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I'm reminded of Full Metal Jacket type Psychotherapy





Result..

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_y1USaJemzSs/SAW9M6cSFRI/AAAAAAAAAh0/xVQFMFSCmt4/s400/Full--world+of+shit.jpg




OUR MILITARY IS OUT OF CONTROL.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
53. It gets worse the longer it goes on.
But, then, what do I know? I only grew up with Vietnam on the tv set every night since I was 7 years old. And that war didn't end until I was 18.

What do you think the new generation of 15 year-olds think about our country after watching Bush, and now Obama, fight unnecessary wars?
Well, they are getting their minds set on living to the ripe old age of 21 or 22.

They don't care about healthcare or Social Security. They don't think they will ever use it.
They have seen their parents, or close family members, or the parents of their friends struggle in the worst economy of the last 70 years, and they want to be left alone until they can get away from their parents.

How cynical will that generation be when it comes time to move out of the house?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. This is pathetic!
:puke:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
35. Barbara Ehrenreich would be so interested in this....
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 03:33 PM by Nikki Stone1
http://www.amazon.com/Bright-sided-Relentless-Promotion-Positive-Undermined/dp/0805087494/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I35BC0Z0FD2Z9U&colid=1QMIS9VKQPB8G

Positive thinking is cheap; actual treatment is expensive.



....Why, three centuries after the Enlightenment, is American culture so bewitched by magical thinking, elevating feelings and intuition and hope over preparation, information and science? ...

Ehrenreich's examination of the history of positive thinking... begins with a look at where positive thinking originated, from its founding parents in the New Thought Movement (inventors of the law of attraction, recently made famous in books such as "The Secret") through mid-20th-century practitioners like Norman Vincent Peale and Dale Carnegie, to current disciples ranging from Oprah Winfrey to the preachers of the prosperity gospel.

We're not talking here about garden-variety hopefulness or genuine happiness, but rather the philosophy that individuals create -- rather than encounter -- their own circumstances. Crafted as a correction to Calvinism's soul-crushing pessimism, positive thinking, in Ehrenreich's view, has become a kind of national religion, an abettor to capitalism's crueler realities and an overcorrection every bit as anxiety-producing as the Puritans' Calvinism ever was....

Studies proclaiming a link between a positive attitude and cancer survival, she finds, are full of problems and discounted by most researchers. Furthermore, she points out, the popular insistence that cheerfulness can help beat the Big C, while it can be "a great convenience for health workers and even friends of the afflicted, who might prefer fake cheer to complaining," leaves patients in the uncomfortable position of having to hide or deny their very real anger and sadness, even to themselves, for fear of being complicit in their own illness.

As for the tests and formulas devised by practitioners of positive psychology, an academic field that receives major funding from ultra-conservative groups (such as the Templeton Foundation, which also bankrolled the Proposition 8 campaign to overturn California's same-sex marriage law), Ehrenreich points out that the "real conservatism of lies in its attachment to the status quo, with all its inequalities and abuses of power." Unlike scholarship that aims to understand or ameliorate social problems, positive psychology focuses only on the individual's attitude toward those problems, meaning it's a short skip to the point of view that happiness or unhappiness is entirely a function of how a person feels about her circumstances. But what if your circumstances are awful? ...

... If all that stands between you and the good life is a positive attitude, as positive psychology posits, then the only person you have to blame if your life isn't good is yourself.

The author deploys her sharpest tone to eviscerate the business community's embrace of positive thinking. Offered as a sap to those facing layoffs, used as a spur to better performance by those workers who remain (often while enduring cuts in pay and benefits) and relied on as an excuse to ignore unpleasant inevitabilities like bubbles bursting, American positivism reaches its giddiest and most dangerous heights in the corner office. Although our current economic mess has complex and varied causes, Ehrenreich's aim here feels all too true. "Recall that American corporate culture had long since abandoned the dreary rationality of professional management for the emotional thrills of mysticism, charisma, and sudden intuitions," Ehrenreich writes. "Pumped up by paid motivators and divinely inspired CEOs, American business entered the midyears of the decade at a manic peak of delusional expectations, extending to the higher levels of leadership." Gripped by "runaway positive thinking," the markets rose and rose until reality receded into the far distance. Little wonder that it hit so hard when we all fell.
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jobendorfer Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. check out Jim Hillman's work
Particularly _We've Had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy and the World's Getting Worse_.
The premise of the book is that psychotherapy as practiced today very strongly tends to interiorize every issue:
The locus of every problem is *inside you*.
It's never even considered that the problem might be dysfunctional systems of family, church, education, employment, government, corporations.
Nothing to fix there!
It's all about grinding the rough edges off of *you*, so you fit in.

Now: I spent a few years in the trenches of the public mental health system, working as a therapist.
I am dead certain that we ( my fellow therapists and I) were doing our damndest to help our clients.
Hillman is not saying this to pick on therapists, or even the idea of therapy, just to make the point:
Sometimes crazy and dysfunctional behavior is the result of crazy and dysfunctional environments, and yet ...
We keep trying to fix the people when it's the situation that is equally or even more FUBAR.

There is a similar thing that just infests American politics: it is a cult of personality.
There's (another) hundred years of psychological research that says, personality traits don't predict behavior.
(Hell: by the standards of the hard sciences, personality traits aren't even *measurable.*)
If you want to understand the behavior of an individual, look at the system he or she is in.
Focus on the system, focus on the issues, you might get something done.

But we keep reading the psychological tea leaves, convincing ourselves that Hillary or Obama or <fill in the blank> is the *person* that we need.
Meanwhile, the banks continue to loot, the warmakers keep dropping bombs, the corporations keep outsourcing our jobs, and the bill of rights
keeps getting shredded ...

J.



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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Damn those factorials....
!
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. They're using DRILL SERGEANTS to treat ptsd?
Drill sergeants are there to CAUSE PTSD, folks. This is like treating obesity by feeding people Twinkies.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. That IS the psycho-dynamic for a very functional reason.
How else do you get people to automatically obey? If you don't "break" them, they are a threat to themselves and others in combat. I have a brother who was a Navy TI. Boy howdy, how he loved his (oft told) stories!! :puke:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
42. madfloridan.....for the first time since 2001 i`m ashamed to be here....
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 03:48 PM by madrchsod
i`m ashamed to read that some people here would be so fucking hateful.

there is a member here who`s son was wounded in war. we supported her for months while he was in the hospital and celebrated when he came home.

this is the first time i wished i would`t clicked to read your post
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. It is awful. It ruins the whole thread.
I alerted, but it is still there. Makes all of DU look bad.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. Note its similarity to the subject of the OP. It is the same thing as abusing others
to get them to do what you want them to do.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
70. You got it
Get other people who are suffering to pretend they are fine than the asshole brass never have to face the reality that sending people to war and traumatizing people injures them for life. All the control freak officer assholes ,the greedy companies and warmongers are ABUSERS. So when they tell hurting people to shut up and do as they want them to do,or drug thier offending symptoms away with a chemical lobotomy they are saying..yall be shiney happy people or else..


This positive think crap reminds me of labratories that do vivisections on live dogs . First the labs CUT the vocal chords of the dogs so mr scientist feels no compassion for the dogs he is torturing in the name of'science',the dog cannot vocalize it's pain to make the torturer stop.So mr scientist can tell himself the dog doesen't feel pain and so doesen't need to be considered alive or a being like himself.

Same thing going on with the new age course in miracles crap they are pushing onto people in pain from trauma..

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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
44. See, you don't need religion to brainwash people into denial.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
49. It's like abstinence only for grunts
abstain from memories of violence
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
50. They will be shortstopped, Told they are fine, and will snap, with deadly results
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
51. The irony of this is at the current tiome, the experts in neurology are starting to
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 04:43 PM by truedelphi
Get a handle on this.

As I type this, a friend of mine with brain trauma from her strokes is attending a lecture by one of the top neurologists in the nation. I will make some of his remarks an OP for later this week.

Positive thinking means NOTHING in the matter of PTSD. In fact, it will only make things worse -as the person who has the PSTD and then sits through one or several "information seminars" will decide that it was their fault for not thinking correctly!

PTSD is an automatic response nested in the circuitry of the person who experienced the trauma.

I was in a terrible auto accident when I was seven years old. I have spent the last fifty years of my life reliving that accident on an subconscious level any time I am a passenger in a car. If I drive the car I am fine, but if I am a passenger, I KNOW the driver is going to kill me. (The accident occurred when a semi-trailer truck going 60 miles an hour on a test run had no brakes and plowed into the car my dad had been driving. It was not my dad's fault - he had stopped when traffic came to a dead stand still due to an other, earlier accident ahead of us.)

I have no idea why any of us in that sedan lived. But I do know that PTSD is a terrible burden and needs up to date therapies, not POP PSYCHOLOGY.

The irony of these remarks of mine is that I oversee a mini seminar on positive thinking. I love PT - in its place. But not used for everything under the sun.



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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
55. One psychologist wrote on HuffPost why she does not think it will help PTSD
More Troops, More Rotations, More PTSD: Will Positive Psychology Save Our Soldiers?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/belleruth-naparstek/more-troops-more-rotation_b_375068.html


So, yes, there’s research showing this approach has been good for middle school kids and teenagers suffering from iffy self-esteem, adolescent angst and hormonal doldrums. It’s reduced depression in a self-selected study of online volunteers. But as far as I know, it’s not been shown to make a dent on posttraumatic stress, especially the soul-killing kind that comes from the horrors of combat.

PTSD sits in the primitive, survival-based structures of the brain and nervous system. Even deep-dish talk therapy barely touches it, because it's the wrong chunk o' brain involved. PTSD is the result of perceived threat to life and limb, so we're on the turf of the reptilian brain stem and mid-brain. It deals in perception, sensation, images, emotion and muscular reactivity. That’s why guided imagery and hypnosis can reach it. So can certain kinds of acupoint tapping and body work. But talking and thinking? Not so much. And by definition, Positive Psychology is Talking & Thinking, Lite. It’s designed that way.

When I discussed the whys of this choice with a Pentagon official who was present at the meetings where the decision was made to use Positive Psychology, it was explained to me that PP was not seen as something to treat PTSD sufferers. Rather they hoped this would be a skill set troops could learn pre-deployment, in hopes of increasing their resiliency and thus mitigate the likelihood of acquiring PTSD later.

Now, $120 million is a hefty price tag for an intervention with no specific track record for either a military population or for PTSD prevention - especially one that doesn't get up close and personal to those critical primitive brain structures. Indeed, this method barely air-kisses the neocortex.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. That's a good article because it explains how war turns humans back into less than humans
when it refers to the "reptilian brain stem and mid-brain" structure of the mind.

Threats to personal safety, real or imagined, cannot be dealt with simply by praying or having a "postive attitude" about it.
If that were the case, then Norman Vincent Peale's books such as "The Power of Positive Thinking" would have been standard issue to the members of the military and there would be no need for psychiatrists or pyschologists.

Good thing Bush was busy closing down VA hospitals in this country after he invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.
They would have been cram loaded full by now if they were still open.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. From your link:
"So you do things like write down 3 things that went well each day and try to assess why. You identify and ponder personal strengths and see how they can contribute to the Whole. Exercises like these are worthwhile for corporate team building and personal growth.

But do they have the mojo to counter the profound soul loss, despair, terror, grief, fury and deep disorientation that comes from the horrors of combat? That’s a leap. I don’t see how. War assaults identity, sense of safety and reason. In asymmetric war, where civilians may or may not be the enemy, it undermines the mores and ethics that formed us by creating impossible choices.

The gains from positive self-talk and reframing negative perceptions are bound to fragment along with that first terrifying IED blast that blows up a friend’s legs and all sense of justice along with it."

Thanks for sharing that.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. The author of the above article has worked with veterans and other survivors
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Thanks for the link to the book.
Will be checking it out.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. YW.
Here are links to the authors' websites. Belleruth Naparstek sells guided imagey cds but also has nice tidbits linking to studies on how that and techniques like emdr can help some issues.

http://belleruthnaparstek.com

Dr. Robert Scaer http://www.traumasoma.com & links to his books on google books w/previews: http://books.google.com/books?q=Robert%20Scaer&btnG=Search%20Books&as_brr=3
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
78. also found an interview w/her on youtube
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #55
83. Shalla Kali, You are right.
A close friend of mine suffered from PTSD due to experiences in WWII bombing raids. The suffering is subconscious or actually physical.

The person wakes up in the middle of the night screaming and suffers from other such symptoms. Positive thinking is irrelevant to this kind of deep-seated trauma. Positive thinking affects the habits of the thinking, but PTSD does not occur on that kind of thining level. A person with PTSD, however, may be able to function very, very well, even excel in activities for a long time. Then suddenly something sets off the hidden, subconscious fears and anxieties. It's great to practice a certain amount of positive thinking in life because it makes you more flexible in responding to challenges. You have to be realistic, however.

PTSD has nothing to do with that.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
59. The general(s) who thought up this bullshit should be facing a courts martial. This is beyond
outrageous.

Our troops deserve the best medical care including mental health care--not treatment by someone whose job is training troops.

Recommend.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. I take it you don't know the stories, then.
One of them (now a general, she was a flight surgeon) went down in a helicopter, was injured, raped, tortured, and released.

After her release, she started focusing on why some soldiers suffer PTSD, and some don't, and if there were preventative measure that could be taken. The idea gained a lot of traction, and serious scientific study was done. Lots of branches of the military have been working on this problem, lots of generals and doctors trying to reduce the problems caused by service.

Looks like the OP is spin on the outcome of those studies.





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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. You don't use drill sergeants to treat medical conditions.
The OP and another post are referring to articles by medical personnel.

Bottom line, you don't use drill sergeants to treat medical conditions.

It is a ridiculous notion.



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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Preventative training to *avoid* injuries makes sense.
The sergeants aren't treating PTSD, they're teaching skills to help avoid PTSD.

The sergeants also train in skills to avoid hygiene-related illness, but that doesn't mean they're treating UTI's.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. That is not what it sounds like to me.
It sounds like drill sergeants and positive thinking is replacing proper medical care.

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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. See #80
Drill Sergeants make for lousy psychologists, but if the soldiers are less affected, less medical care is needed.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. That's because it's not possible to train people not to develop PTSD.
They can't do preventative measures to keep someone from being affected by PTSD by telling them not to be scared.
It's impossible to train someone not to be scared.

It's one of the most basic parts of our subconscious mind, our survival instinct, "the fight or flight" response we have developed over millions of years in order to stay alive from day to day in a dangerous world.

PTSD is a response to the unnatural level of fear that a person experiences later, from a traumatic event that caused them to be scared to death when the event first occurred.

All of the emotions and all of the physical reactions that a person has to fear, the same reactions that the person experienced when the event happened, are relived when PTSD shows up.

One of the most effective ways to deal with PTSD is to get into therapy, discussing it with other people who are affected the same way by the same type of events, and using the right medication.


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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Science says you're wrong, somewhat.
It's not possible to make people immune to PTSD. I agree there.

It is, however, possible to *reduce* soldier's PTSD, by training people better.

It's also possible to train people to seek trauma counseling post trauma, and better handle PTSD.

My problem with the Op-Ed is that it's mixing everything together. They are conflating training with counseling, post-trauma with pre-trauma, and then, for good measure, synthesizing it with "think positive" bullshit.


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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. No, I'm afraid your comments are useless against something called "reality"
And that is all there is to it.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. No, I'd never heard that story. My reaction was to the use of DI's to treat PTSD as a
COST-CUTTING measure adopted by the Pentagon.

I'd be interested in any links you can provide to educate us about the Pentagon's efforts at treatment of PTSD as well as the "preventative measures" you mentioned. Sounds like it would be very interesting reading.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #75
80. It cuts costs to avoid PTSD, rather than only treating it after occurance
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #71
79. That sounds like an interesting study.
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 01:00 AM by Marr
I'd be very interested to know if there were any general similarities found in people who tend not to suffer from PTSD. But god, talk about something that's hard to control for. Not all traumatic experiences are equal.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Yes, there are similarities, and it depends on childhood, SES, etc.
Hard as heck to control for, which is why there's so much research. See #80 for starters on the Pentagon program, or dig though http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Preventing+PTSD for a bunch of resources and learning points.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. They need to bring in the real mental health experts. Scientologists!
There is nothing too stupid to be embraced by Generals in the Pentagon.I remember reading a book review a couple of years ago that talked about crazy shit they were experimenting with, and they mentioned my original martial arts instructor from back in 1972. And he was a bit of a nut, and that's an understatement.

The book was "Men Who Stare At Goats". It's a movie now, I haven't seen it, but I did read the chapter about my former instructor. He convinced some of the Pentagon's top brass, that he could teach special forces soldiers how to kill people with their mind, and how to walk through solid walls, among other things.

The author talked about sitting in a Colonel's office who was getting really frustrated because every time he attempted to walk through a wall, he'd bounce off of it. And of course, they had guys standing around, staring at goats trying to kill them.

So, I'm not surprised that they would resort to more magical thinking. In their nest step, they'll probably give Pat Robertson a no-bid contract to unleash faith healers on them.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
65. This can't end well.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
66. AP: Brain Scans Reveals Invisible Damage Of PTSD
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/13/brain-scans-reveals-invis_n_355476.html

Yes, headaches are a hallmark of TBI while the classic PTSD symptoms are flashbacks and nightmares. But both tend to cause memory and attention problems, anxiety, irritability, depression and insomnia. That means the two disorders share brain regions.

And Hayes can measure how some of those regions go awry in the vicious cycle that is PTSD, where patients feel like they're reliving a trauma instead of understanding that it's just a memory.

What happens? A brain processing system that includes the amygdala – the fear hot spot – becomes overactive. Other regions important for attention and memory, regions that usually moderate our response to fear, are tamped down.

"The good news is this neural signal is not permanent. It can change with treatment," Hayes says.

Her lab performed MRI scans while patients either tried to suppress their negative memories, or followed PTSD therapy and changed how they thought about their trauma. That fear-processing region quickly cooled down when people followed the PTSD therapy.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
69. I hear this positivity
Edited on Sun Dec-13-09 10:37 PM by undergroundpanther
shit in my day program it's cognitive behavioral therapy meets new age pablum.

And it DOES NOT HELP.

I have pstd,and positive think stinks like denial and I cannot stand it because of the lie it is.. If you wanna piss me off demand I be positive,and demand I LIE about my own thought feelings and situation.
Reality for me is NOT positive.NOT good or precious. It is brutal,sad,violent,callous,pointless,senseless,painful and so so sickening.

Most people can't look at reality as it IS because it makes them anxious.
When you get traumatized your life depends on facing reality and after trauma you cannot look away and make believe all is better lest you get hurt again.

Leave that positive think bullshit on the fiction/new age shelves people.For positive thinking never helped the poor survive it never stopped a rape a child abuser or a war. Stopping that kind of factual reality based problem requires one to look at reality and act despite the anxiety tempting you to bystand.Or to deny reality deny the victim was harmed or play make believe and put a positive lie over a terrible incident.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
74. I have PTSD and this article makes me sick...
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 12:12 AM by CoffeeCat
I am not a mental-health professional, but I have been diagnosed with PTSD due to childhood stuff. I am doing really well
and I have access to great healthcare.

I just want to chime in and say that PTSD is a very creative and resourceful reaction to intense stress. The mind is a very
kind, adaptive thing. If you are in an overwhelming, traumatic situation--your mind will help you "shelve" the emotions
until you are better equipped--or more prepared.

Maybe you're a soldier who just can't deal with the mutilated bodies you've seen or the people you've killed. You still need
to do your job--so your mind helps you. It re-routes your rage, feelings of powerlessness, anxiety, heartbreak and fear. It's
almost as if your emotions are stored in a safe place, so you can avoid falling apart. Soldiers have wars to fight, kids have
algebra to do and people have lives to lead.

What most people recognize as PTSD (nightmares, depression, anxiety, flashbacks, acting out) is actually when you begin to get
stronger. Your mind finally signals that it's ready to let go of what it's been holding onto and allow you to process. Kind
of like your mind saying, "Your safe now. I held onto this stuff for you, but now you're out of danger and the trauma is over...so
I'm going to release what I helped you bury. You're strong. You can do this. Holding onto this stuff takes a great deal of energy
and you need that energy to live your life now."

PTSD is a gift. It's a sign that you're strong enough to process what could not be processed in the past.

This "treatment" described in the OP is a sickening kick in the pants. It's contrary to anything that a decent mental-health
professional will tell you. People need support and compassion when their mind finally releases this stuff. Releasing it is
absolutely terrifying. You feel the emotions as if you were still there--abused in childhood or on the battlefield. It is
very difficult to stay present and to think logically when these emotions seep out. It's so intense and the emotions seem
to saturate every corner of your mind. You wonder if you will ever be normal again. It feels as if you are falling apart.

Part of the reason that people shelve the trauma--is due to FEAR of feeling the emotions. So, not only do you feel the
emotion of the trauma (sadness, anger, etc.) you feel the FEAR that caused you to bury it in the first place. That's some
tough stuff--it's very powerful!

I used to call my therapist--hanging on by a thread. I didn't know when it would end. I didn't know if tomorrow would be better
or worse. I used to have flashbacks in Walmart and I'd have to sit on big bags of dog food away from everyone in the corner
of the store--just to get myself centered.

PTSD sufferers are all ready THINKING POSITIVELY. Their minds acted in a very sophisticated and creative way--to help them survive.
These people delayed feeling--to fight for their country and to keep us safe. They are all ready positive thinkers and heroes
and courageous, selfless leaders who set aside their own mental health to do what was asked of them.

Telling a PTSD sufferer to be more positive is like telling someone who has just rolled in crap--to just spritz on some perfume
and get over it. It's an insult.

Anyone who does say this, has NO BUSINESS treating anyone who has a mental illness or dispensing advice to people who are in
need of therapy. It's not only immoral and completely moronic--but it won't work, and it could worsen a PTSD sufferer.

Sorry so long, but I had to speak my mind and clearly explain how WRONG this is.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #74
84. I, too, have childhood-related PTSD. Undiagnosed for 30 years.
The point you seem to be missing is that these are not children, as this is about training for adults to manage emotional trauma, and reduce future PTSD as a result.

ER doctors see horrific things, and suffer less PTSD, because of their training.

That's the point.

Training.

It's not like telling doctors, or soldiers, to "think happy" (or similar bullshit) will fix PTSD, but that they can be trained to reduce the amount of PTSD, by being conditioned to learn different strengths before the shock, and immediately after the shock.



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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. I understand completely...
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 10:11 AM by CoffeeCat
...that these soldiers are not children. Obviously. However, the elements of PTSD and how the mind
copes wrt PTSD--are similar in soldiers and in children. PTSD symptoms, like depression symptoms--are
similar across age groups.

I have no problem with soldiers getting training, as doctors do, to reduce the stress and the likelihood of
developing PTSD. Is that REAllY what is happening here? Wonderful training? It sounds like a complete
wash to me. Positive thinking to prevent PTSD? Sounds ineffective and misplaced.

I was specifically responding to the OP's comments about "positive thinking" pop psychology being used to
dismiss the gravity of PTSD. The entire jist of the OP was about the negative effects of this "positive
thinking....RIGHT? That's what we're discussing here.

Furthermore, the HuffPo editorial, by the psychologist, was very negative on these methods. From the article:
"It appears that this "treatment" is designed more to manipulate troops into denying their need for care than to actually treat them."

Regardless, the military has been dismissive and unhelpful to soldiers with PTSD, sometimes denying them treatment or
denying the seriousness of PTSD. Feeding happy talk to soldiers is congruent with the military's haphazard treatment
of our soldiers with PTSD. Unlike you, I'm not that impressed.

I'm all for training--but I would really hesitate to position this treatment as some kind of amazing effort on the
part of the military. I see nothing of value here. Furthermore, I see a serious absence of the correct kind
of treatment--when soldiers do come home with PTSD.

I'd call that negligence, not something to celebrate.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. No, the entire OP was not just about positive thinking.
In fact positive thinking is good in its place.

The OP was as much about using drill sergeants and positive thinking to treat a medical condition.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. The DI assumption is an OpEd assumption.
It's not happening. It's an OpEd made for press, conflating things to get press.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
77. Combat PTSD and pop-psych quackery: What could possibly go wrong?
This will not end well.

Hekate

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #77
87. I think you are right.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
86. Its scary to know these young men will be coming back into society untreated
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. THEY ALREADY ARE UNTREATED!
Using unsafe drugs to cover symptoms of PTSD is not treatment.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #86
94. BATTLEMIND
google it, don't take my word.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
95. The gold standard is xanax. MDMA is also promising.
Currently there is no better treatment than xanax. You can't "positive think" out of shell-shock.

There were some promising results in tests that utilized Ecstasy (MDMA) but it probably worked to well.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Those are post-trauma meds.
Pre-trauma training has an effect, as well.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
98. interesting thread.
too late to recommend.
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