That's it - I give up

[Taverner]

YOU...tell me why I should vote?

Why should I bust my ass for any candidate? I honestly think I'd be better off getting stinking drunk and yelling at the TV

Why should I even bother? We're all fucked anyway - whether homo sapien will come to extinction through climate change or through war, we're on our way out.

And America? I am fucking sick and tired of hearing how great "America" is : yeah, we started off giving the vote only to white, male, rich, landowning gentry and gave the vote to others kicking and screaming. Even slavery had to be decided by a war. We were only recently on the "right side of history" and that was last in WWII - since then every war fought has been to make the rich richer and the poor deader.

Americans? Now there's a few of them I like, but most of us are stupid, spoiled mad children. And we are about to go off our addiction (oil) cold turkey - WHEEEEE!!!!

I shouldn't feel this way at 39 - it took Vonnegut till he was in his fifties until he saw the writing on the wall. And this guy watched us bomb Dresden.

What's the point?

[NightWatcher]

1. I got nothing

I'm not going to try to blackmail you with, "oh yeah, you want president mccain?" bullshit

I think I'm going to go lock myself in The Lounge

[Taverner]

3. I think I'll join you

Want a beer?

[NightWatcher]

6. Dude, I'm about to start brewing my own

Heading out this week for a kick ass 8-12 gallon homebrew set up. I've got to clean out the garage and settle on a recipe. I've been "sampling" *hick* different beers a lot lately trying to get down to a good, hoppy IPA mix.

[lyonspotter]

18. ...and double IPA! NT, sorry off topic...

[Hutzpa]

2. Who put a sand on your cereal?

:shrug:

[Taverner]

4. General Pershing did, that's who!

[Hutzpa]

21. Black Jack Pershing

no denying the hate I see, nice.

[Taverner]

23. Anger, not hate - there's a difference

And now...apathy

[walldude]

5. No argument from me...

Soon as my kids are out of school I'm looking into moving abroad... There's nothing left here for me..

[AlienGirl]

26. Nowhere else will be better. The future is Detroit everywhere.

For better or worse, we are in this global economy, and it is no longer possible to flee the effects of a local famine or local depression by going somewhere else.

If there exists a country that maibntains a high standard of living through the global economic collapse, it will become a target, economically or militarily or both, of the ones that don't. Nowhere left to go.

Tucker

[Taverner]

29. Yep

I'm staying in California

Maybe my descendants will be lucky and get to be part of a future Republic of California

[walldude]

46. ?? Yeah maybe economically but I can go to many other places

and not have to listen to the likes of our politicians, talking heads and tea baggers. Plus I can live better in many other places on the same money I make here. And there is plenty of work for me wherever I go.

[mike_c]

53. THAT is one of the most depressingly prescient statements...

...I've seen today. The upside is that it might take a generation or so to accomplish, giving us at least a few years of breathing room. But I wouldn't count on it.

[dysfunctional press]

7. we won't exactly go off the oil addiction 'cold turkey'....

as supplies dwindle and prices skyrocket, we'll be scrounging for the goo like a stoner sifting through the seeds in the ashtray, looking for a hit.

[Taverner]

9. Good visual - and in the end we'll be like that meth head

Who's tearing apart his or her floorboards looking for any that might have fallen in between the cracks

[Motown_Johnny]

8. You should vote to cancel out the vote of one ignorant American

it is the best any of us can do

[Taverner]

11. IN the United States of Stupid, there's too many of them

Partially by design - the Right has been defunding education for years, making us into the stupidest people on earth.

[lyonspotter]

28. That's ok...

..."Who cares?"...just ask any of the teens and early 20 somethings sipping their grande vanilla lattes at Starbucks that don't know what year 9/11 happened. That is the response you will get more often than not: "Who cares?"

We are in a bad way...and the ship needs to get turned around fast!

[Laura902]

41. I doubt that anyone with a functioning brain would say that

..... and even then this is America where ignorance is rampant among all ages, a large number of adults don't even know how many states there are......:P

[Laura902]

42. Not that there are many

Smart informed people at all here

[lyonspotter]

10. And don't forget that even with WWII...

...some of us were on the wrong side of history, i.e., George H W Bush's daddy, W's grandpappy, Prescott Bush.

[Taverner]

14. Yes, and unlike Joe Kennedy Sr, he did nothing to redeem himself

[lyonspotter]

15. ...and we elect his scum posterity. NT

[Hutzpa]

24. .

this is suppose to be a snark, right?

[lyonspotter]

25. That was to say I don't much care for the Bush family. NT

[EFerrari]

12. I have to take a page from Vonnegut and sometimes lay back until

my sense of humor comes back. Not because any of this if funny but because it prevents head explosions.

And, afaik, Americans are not spoiled mad children. They've been inducted into something like national prostitution.

[WI_DEM]

13. Why not just wait and see what happens first.

[asdjrocky]

16. From now on I only work locally.

Also, I'm on the fence regarding voting again. Haven't really decided yet.

Listen to some Dropkick Murphys, you'll feel better.

[WillyT]

17. Wha... Ya Mean We're NOT Supposed To Get Stinking Drunk And Yell At The TV

Ya mean all this time I've been doing it WRONG???

:wow:

K & R for a most excellent rant.

I can relate totally.

:hi:

[lyonspotter]

19. I just yell at the TV...especially '00 and '04. NT

[truebrit71]

20. I hear ya'....

...I'm just about done too...

The Dems in Congress are absolutely fucking useless...and Harry Reid is so fucking bad as leader he couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery...

Tired of being suckered...

[Ohio Joe]

22. Well...

Because giving up won't fix anything. Besides, you can always do both, work to try and get good candidates elected and get stinking drunk and yell at the TV. I do :D

[cali]

27. lol. I wish for one damn time, someone would write something original in

these endless all the same screeds. Or clever or witty or at least not whiny.

[lyonspotter]

30. Is clever more important than truth?

That there could be both simultaneously! But I'll take truth over clever any day if there has to be a choice.

How 'bout this then: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7224118

[cali]

33. I wish some of you could figure out a couple of vital things:

1) opinions are not facts.

2) there are very few unwavering and timeless truths. Most "truths" are subjective.

[lyonspotter]

36. Ah ha...

"Most 'truths' are subjective."

Interesting that you use the word 'most'... I am sure you would not dare use the word 'all.'

"All truths are subjective" is self-refuting. Logic doesn't work that way.

But I still have a bone to pick with 'most'. As if any truths are subjective. Give me an example of a 'truth' that is subjective. Truth, by definition, does not obey our whim. It is objective. The door is open if it is open, and not whether we wish to believe it according to our subjective tastes.

[cali]

40. sure.

Obama is bush 2 is a widely held "truth" by quite a few here. I don't think that's even remotely a truth.

I tend to believe in something I call the theory of apparent paradox: It's when two seemingly irreconcilable "truths" coexist withing the same frame.

[Hutzpa]

50. hey

paradox, theres a wise one.

nuff said.

[branders seine]

63. Obama is NOT bush 2. No frigging way.

Two BIG differences:

Bush did not comprehend what he was doing.

Obama is articulate.

[AlienGirl]

31. There is no logical reason not to give up; only idealistic ones.

Idealistically, one must keep going, simply because one is not excused from one's duty to justice by the inevitability of failure.

For instance, John Brown knew his attack at Harper's Ferry would fail, that he would be executed...but he did it *anyway* because it was worth it to die trying to end slavery, even if slavery were not ended by the attempt. So he's a hero with a song that helped inspire the abolition of slavery--but he had no way to know that would be the result.

Tucker

[tavalon]

38. Exactly!

You explained it far more succinctly than I did.

[whatchamacallit]

32. Rant-tastic! K&R

:fistbump:

[Echo In Light]

34. The empire is in its death throes...just try to take care of yourself & others as best as one's able

:pals:

[Cassandra2010]

35. Giving up is not an option

even if you do. The Beast keeps coming.

There are other options but when trapped in the dead end spiral of conventional party politics one will always vacillate and ultimately need to claim blind allegiance or give up.

The government is not there to serve us and we will have to become serious about grabbing the reins of power if we are to even think of any mild alterations of this criminally insane social system.

[tavalon]

37. The point is to keep fighting the good fight

No, we aren't going to win any time soon and we may well not win at all, but we're patriots. Even though we don't see her through rose colored glasses, America runs through our veins, just as it did for Franklin, Washington, Adams, Jefferson and the many other founders. We are their descendants, if not by actual blood, then by credo. We are the ones who care and so we fight, never knowing if we will win or even if such a win is worth it. We fight for her because we must.

Take a break if you must and then meet us at the barricades.

[csziggy]

39. I felt that way in 1972 when the first Presidential election I could vote in was stolen

By Noxin and his crew of crooks. I didn't vote again until 1980 - and the election again was screwed up. I have never been certain that any of my votes have been honestly counted - and I have lived in Florida all my life.

But it costs me little in terms of time and brain cells to pay enough attention to pick the candidates I prefer and get my ass out there and vote for them. If I did not do that, yelling at the TV would be pointless. At least when I contact my representatives, I can honestly tell them that I voted, and my vote in the future will be affected by what they do on the issue I am calling about.

[Call Me Wesley]

43. Welcome to the Human Race.

Bust your ass for the candidate you believe in, or run for yourself. Lean back, get stinking drunk, scream at the TV and don't complain otherwise because no one listened to you.

Why should you bother? I can't answer that question for you. Seems mighty rhetorical, and pulling a Vonnegut here doesn't make you look better. Read some Ernst Bloch.

What's the point? Struggling. For some future unknown. If you want to be fucked, so be it. Nihilism was always a great excuse to just not bother anymore, sitting in an old Vienna coffeehouse lamenting about the cease of all things left.

[Taverner]

44. Ernst Bloch - I'll check him out

[Call Me Wesley]

45. Principle of Hope. (nt)

[deaniac21]

47. I guess I'm going to have to go home and gargle with my revolver.

[GeorgeGist]

48. Genocide has consequences ...

even when you win a holocaust.

[varelse]

51. I don't get this one

Are you talking about the ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by the founders of our nation against the indigenous people here?

And how does one "win" a crime against humanity?

[varelse]

49. I'm going to watch this thread for answers

because, sadly, I have none :(

[spanone]

52. voting give you the right to rant

people who bitch and don't vote don't get my ear

[we can do it]

54. I'm with You- At Least Til After the Holidays-

Pass the nog

[FarLeftFist]

55. Because if you don't vote then you have no right to complain.

[hunter]

56. The US healthcare system is going to fail and take Wall Street down with it.

Our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan is going to fail too.

It doesn't matter how cleverly we patch things up, these patches will blow. Everything the Obama administration and Congress have done so far has been dirty patchwork.

Obama will enjoy exponentially increasing opportunities to demonstrate his leadership. Whichever way he goes, success or failure, the next presidential election is not going to be close, it's going to be a landslide.

I think there's plenty of politics to play, but I don't want to be standing in the vicinity where behemoths are falling.

It's like watching a drug addict spiraling down, isn't it? Whether they hit rock bottom and begin to climb back up, or they die, you don't let them drag you down with them.

[FarLeftFist]

57. Then why aren't you packing your bags and leaving the country?

You sound so matter-of-fact.

[AlienGirl]

59. To go where, and how?

It's not like there will be anywhere to get away from the global economic depression and environmental shitstorm. It's also fairly hard to get legal immigration status (and qualify for benefits like healthcare) in Canada, Sweden, or other countries with functioning universal healthcare.

Tucker

[DerekG]

58. Hell, I'm 27, and I see the writing on the wall

I'm somewhat proud to say I didn't waste a nickel or vote on Mr. Hope n' Change, but protest voting only goes so far. Gotta find ways to throw monkey-wrenches into the gears of empire.

[branders seine]

60. let's start a club

[grantcart]

61. Well that is what Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin and other nuts are counting on

wear down rational people until they can get back.

[blues90]

62. I can't say I blame you at all.nt