MUAD_DIB
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:08 PM
Original message |
Is there going to be anything left in the HCR bill worth voting on/for? |
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If the Dems cave to Lieberman on medicare, and there is no public option, then what will be left in the bill?
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WeDidIt
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:09 PM
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Skink
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:10 PM
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2. well fining people without ins. could bring in some revenue. |
rwheeler31
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:10 PM
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RUMMYisFROSTED
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:10 PM
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A last second pony amendment.
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TheWraith
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message |
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No preexisting conditions, no unequal premiums for women, no dropping the sick, no limits on payouts, no skimming off the top, and on, and on, and on...
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dkf
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. No preexisting conditions etc, = increase in rates. |
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Especially when they remove the requirement that 90% be paid out. Its a giveaway to the insurance companies.
When rates start to go up even worse, everyone will realize what a disservice this bill did.
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derby378
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
9. I think there are now annual limits on payouts in the Senate bill |
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Someone please show me the link if I'm wrong...
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quinnox
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Everyone has to buy health insurance |
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Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 09:12 PM by quinnox
and there might be some provision that pre-existing conditions can't be used as an excuse to deny coverage, but even that might be in doubt.
So no, not much worth saving. It looks like a good bill for the republicans to run on and use against Democrats and win heavily next year however.
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liberalpragmatist
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:12 PM
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7. Medicaid expansion, subsidies, banning rescission and pre-existing conditions |
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This ends up as an incremental reform effort, which is unbelievably disappointing, given our majorities.
But I would ask the "kill the bill" folks if they'd be happy with the fact that killing it now would mean more than 30+ million people (about half of them on Medicaid) NOT get insurance.
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BeatleBoot
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:14 PM
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dkf
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
14. Those people aren't getting insurance for free. |
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I bet in these tough times they simply won't be able to afford it. I doubt there will be 30 million extra covered. Expanding healthcare through expensive medical insurance isn't going to work.
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liberalpragmatist
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
21. The bulk are getting it through Medicaid |
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And the rest receive subsidies and group rates. Still expensive, but drastically less than the individual market right now.
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dkf
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
laughingliberal
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
17. Okay, pass a bill to expand Medicaid. As it is shaping up now the insurance companies may be forced |
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to sell a policy to people with preexisting conditions but there is the possibility they may be allowed to deny coverage for said preexisting condition.
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liberalpragmatist
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
22. Problem is without the rest of the bill Medicaid expansion unravels |
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If you expand Medicaid eligibility but do it without an employer mandate, then rather than really denting the number of uninsured, Medicaid expansion just shifts a bunch of people from employer-based plans onto Medicaid. Which also further strains state budgets, since they're now on the hook for covering people's health care.
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laughingliberal
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
26. Most people who qualify for Medicaid do not have jobs which offer benefits |
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Walmart employees are, in many states, the largest group on the Medicaid roles. Use a corporate tax or a tax on the upper percentiles. Expand Medicaid and dump the rest of this bill. Here are the people who will benefit from the current legislation:
1) Those with preexisting conditions who can well afford the premiums but are denied due to preexisting. 2) Those people who are at 101-133% of FPL. Those at 100% already get Medicaid
Those are the only people I see benefitting. The rest, even those who qualify for subsidies are going to find the premiums a burden. And that's as it stands now. GOK what more we will compromise away due to the tyranny of Lieberman by the end of the week.
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liskddksil
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:14 PM
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but 2010 and 2012 is going to be a lot of fun...for the Republicans.
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AnOhioan
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message |
12. What is left? More money for the insurance industry. |
Raine
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:16 PM
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nothing for me, plenty for the insurance companies like it being mandatory.
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laughingliberal
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
15. What's left? Mandates and fines for the middle class and working families nt |
quiller4
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
16. Subsidy for low income to purchase insurance, elimination of pre-existing condition clauses |
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elimination of lifetime caps, expanded Medicaid eligibility-estimates that what remains would cut number of uninsured by more than half
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laughingliberal
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
18. Sure, anyone who makes 400% of the FPL or lower will have help |
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If you are a couple making $58,280 per year, you're gonna pay whatever the hell that insurance cartel wants to charge you. My husband and I had to drop ours when we couldn't afford $1200 per month any more. At $58,280 per year that's 25% of your income. That's more than a house note in some areas. You know any people on that kind of income who could afford a second home?
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Hannah Bell
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
23. there's a cap in at least one of the current versions |
uberblonde
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message |
19. They're about to drop the medical/loss ratio, too. |
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This is not reform. There won't be one thing left worth fighting for.
Unless they want to go to reconciliation, this battle is already lost.
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branders seine
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Mon Dec-14-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message |
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Truth be told, it was over the moment Obama unilaterally removed single payer even from the discussion.
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mtowngman
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
25. Yep, pulled the string that started the unraveling. And some still call him socialist. n/t |
David Zephyr
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Mon Dec-14-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message |
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Every Amerian will suffer if Obama signs a bill that mandates all American's health into the hands of these uber-corporations.
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