You know why the democrats don't take away Joe's chair?

[debbierlus]

It isn't complicated.

The democrats are USING Joe as a scapegoat for their wholesale sell-out to the health care industry.

They NEED Joe.

He is playing bad cop to their 'good cop'. The democrats aren't interested in creating a bill that will help the people, they are interested in creating a bill that serves their corporate masters. It is getting mighty tough to continually justify selling out to corporations with the majorities in the House & Senate. So, they use the mere THREAT of a filibuster as the excuse to
take out any meaningful reform.

They don't even TRY to fight. They could take away his chair. They could MAKE him filibuster for days on end. They could force the opposition's political hand.

But, they dont.

Why do you think there is such a mad rush for passage by Christmas? Why do you think this legislation has been written behind closed doors and the contents of the legislation haven't even been available to the majority of the Senate or House Members.

They don't want anyone to have a chance to see the giant turd they are about to deliver to the American people. They know full well, if the people have a chance to dissect the language of this bill, they will be united against it.

This bill is SHIT. It enslaves American citizens to the very industry that has been responsible for the deathes of hundreds of thousands of Americans. It mandates health insurance with no gurantee of health care. It is a betrayal of the worst kind.

Joe Lieberman is a self serving, vain, narcisstic, egotistical, and pathetic little worm of a man. But, he is not acting alone. He is just playing his role.

Don't be fooled by their games.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. That's a believable scenario.

This bill was doomed from the beginning. It should have been obvious, and it was to a lot of us, that any final legislation would be devised to favor the corporations and special interests sitting around that initial table -- PharMA, the insurance companies, the AMA -- not the ordinary citizens of this country. Who speaks for the regular people? Who is not corrupted by the almighty dollar? Why wasn't single-payer even considered an option when so many professionals favored it?

This whole thing was a setup, and I find it very depressing that no more progress than this is being made, when we worked so hard to get these Democrats elected.

What in the hell is it going to take to break the backs of our corporate lords?

[glitch]

93. General Strike. Massive Boycotts.

IOW, they are pretty safe.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. Seems pretty obvious to me. But I don't expect our devout ones to catch on.

they never catch on.

[goldcanyonaz]

41. +1

[Hannah Bell]

3. k/r

[Goldstein1984]

4. In a nutshell, the HCR shouldn't pass because

"It enslaves American citizens..."

People are going to be required to buy insurance from insurance companies, and the subsidies to help them pay for it are nothing but taxpayer support for industries that contribute nothing to the health of this nation.

It's the ultimate quadruple-cross on the people: We don't get a good bill; we have to subsidize a bad bill; the industry that is screwing all of us gets even more customers and profit; and there is nothing to prevent prices from going up further.

[chimpymustgo]

40. " We don't get a good bill; we have to subsidize a bad bill; the industry that is screwing all of us

gets even more customers and profit; and there is nothing to prevent prices from going up further."

"It's the ultimate quadruple-cross on the people."

[debbierlus]

53. It is twisted and surreal, indeed.

[Jackpine Radical]

63. This is the best of

the best of all possible worlds.
--Camille

[AlbertCat]

164. the best of all possible worlds. --Camille

Camille?

You mean Candide? Or more accurately Prof. Pangloss, Candide's tutor.

"When one dismisses
The rest of all possible worlds
One finds that this is
The best of all possible worlds"

[Political Heretic]

77. The "subsidies" that help pay for it are nearly non-existent.

They have been cut and cut and cut and cut so that as they stand there's not nearly enough assistance to help people really afford quality insurance. Not to mention that, last I hear, the "subsides" in the Senate version were in the form of tax "credits" - which is incredibly weak support and does not help someone pay for insurance up front.

[Scruffy1]

103. We have already been enslaved

They are just shortening the chains.

[NanceGreggs]

5. Don't worry, debbierlus ...

... there are all kinds of people "playing games" these days - and not as many people are as "fooled" as you think.

But by all means, carry on ...

[cliffordu]

6. I won't pay for a mandatory policy. I'll go to fucking prison first.

Y'all can mark my words right here.

[monmouth]

42. I am so with you on that one.... Come and arrest me, at least in jail

they at least give you mediocre medical care.

[cliffordu]

70. And don't forget the dental.

:rofl:

[glitch]

94. I think it used to be mediocre, before profits got involved. Now it's brutish.

Perhaps experimental...

[monmouth]

104. That's not good then. I'm in Florida, they love brutish....old rednecks

run the jails down here.

[Cronus Protagonist]

105. I don't have the cash to eat properly

How the fuck am I supposed to afford the fines?

[Fire1]

116. You and a whole lot of others!. n/t

[shadowknows69]

150. Mine too. At least there I'll get health care and food.

[leftstreet]

7. K&R

[Swamp Rat]

8. That's a fairly cynical outlook on things.

However, with all those lobbyists and corporate sponsors, specifically the healthcare and health insurance industry, paying politicians in a myriad of ways, it is plausible... ;)

[AllentownJake]

9. This is like Pro-Wrestling

and anyone who believes the shit that is going on is a Mark.

[chill_wind]

14. +1

[NuttyFluffers]

26. yup, and it's time we started changing channels...

i've had enough pretend for a year. anyone else? i feel primary challenger candidates and their fundraising campaigns to be in order...

[laughingliberal]

28. total agreement, here nt

[AndrewP]

50. +1

[laughingliberal]

10. Yeah, I don't like to think that's true but it does look that way

Otherwise, I believe Joe would have been locked in a closet in the White House bound and gagged until some sort of agreement could be reached. Instead, we have the President's other scapegoat, Rahm, ordering Harry Reid to dump the provision within one day of Joe's declaration. Does that sound like they want us to get any real reform?

[tavalon]

30. Rahm is a lot of things. Amoral, slimy, self serving

but I have never heard of him being called a scapegoat. That's like calling Rove, Bush's scapegoat. Rahm is Obama's own special turdblossom.

[laughingliberal]

48. I think I meant scapegoat in the sense that the President has let Rahm take all the heat from the

left. Look how many progressives get enraged at Rahm and still want to believe the president isn't directing these attacks on progressives.

[tavalon]

49. Oh, yeah, I see what you mean

The two of them definitely have the good cop/bad cop thing down cold.

[laughingliberal]

54. Exactly! nt

[leeroysphitz]

72. Hell the medicare "expansion" wasn't real reform in the first place.

They aren't even trying to fool us anymore.

[Tutankhamun]

11. I wish I could say the "good cop/bad cop" scheme seems unlikely.

I wish. One thing is for damn sure though -- Joe Lieberman is a scumsucking devious ugly worthless little POS who doesn't give a rat's ass about Americans.

Ugh! He makes me so fucking mad! Like break things mad. Toaster through window mad. Fist through wall mad. Ouch my fucking hand is broken mad. I need a doctor now mad. BUT I CAN'T GET ONE BECAUSE THAT FUCKER LIEBERMAN WON'T LET ME!

Joe Lieberman: America's one-man "death panel"

[Ken Burch]

36. So...does Joe make you mad?

I couldn't really tell from your post.

[Jackpine Radical]

64. I do think I detect some

carefully veiled annoyance in that post.

Could be wrong, though.

[Tutankhamun]

108. Obviously I need to be more clear. Stop beating around the Bush.

I feel that Joe Lieberman may conceivably not be quite fully living up to the wonderful potential that I and so many others see in him. For that I am almost to the point at which one could venture that I may be harboring a slight feeling of what could almost be deemed disappointment. I suppose Joe Lieberman is mortal, like the rest of us.

[Ken Burch]

144. I could agree with you on all but the last part of that

Joe is not, in fact, mortal. He is one of the undead(along with our most recent former vice president)and can only be stopped by being shot through the wallet.

[historian]

147. i was born jewish as well as liebermann

but i hate the fucker and am turning into an anti semite!

[Tutankhamun]

161. Fortunately, Lieberman hasn't made me feel antisemitic.

But he has actually completely ruined "Droopy" the dog cartoons for me. Now I hate that dog.

[chill_wind]

12. I always figured

I'd find Joe at near the top of any Top 20

Insurance: Money to Congress


2008 Cycle

McCain, John (R) $2,451,306
Obama, Barack (D) $2,314,070
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) $1,216,240
Dodd, Chris (D-CT) $857,006
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) $400,583
Coleman, Norm (R-MN) $396,379
Rangel, Charles B (D-NY) $370,090
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) $346,048
Chambliss, Saxby (R-GA) $344,736
Sununu, John E (R-NH) $303,804
Cornyn, John (R-TX) $287,569
Dole, Elizabeth (R-NC) $284,662
Baucus, Max (D-MT) $281,350
Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND) $277,675
Cantor, Eric (R-VA) $254,100
Bean, Melissa (D-IL) $253,308
Crowley, Joseph (D-NY) $234,868
Smith, Gordon H (R-OR) $232,650

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=F09&recipdetail=M&sortorder=U&cycle=2008

2010 so far..

Schumer, Charles E (D-NY $188,100
Dodd, Chris (D-CT) $137,250
Grassley, Chuck (R-IA) $125,450
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA)$124,200
Bean, Melissa (D-IL) $123,550
Frank, Barney (D-MA) $119,599
Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR) $112,550
Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND) $110,650
Reid, Harry (D-NV) $106,500
Cantor, Eric (R-VA) $102,950
Bennett, Robert F (R-UT) $96,900
Boehner, John (R-OH) $92,650
Kind, Ron (D-WI) $92,050
Rangel, Charles B (D-NY) $91,800
Neal, Richard E (D-MA) $89,050
Royce, Ed (R-CA) $84,800
Bayh, Evan (D-IN) $84,100
Burr, Richard (R-NC) $81,700
Gillibrand, Kirsten (D-NY) $79,600
Crapo, Mike (R-ID) $77,650
Boehner, John (R-OH) $225,025
Collins, Susan M (R-ME) $215,700


ALL Cycles

McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,919,753
Obama, Barack (D) $2,492,352
Dodd, Chris (D-CT) $2,292,096
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) $1,894,715
Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND) $1,860,506
Johnson, Nancy L (R-CT) $1,612,499
Rangel, Charles B (D-NY)$1,442,835
Kerry, John (D-MA) $1,396,617
Santorum, Rick (R-PA) $1,267,850
Nelson, Ben (D-NE) $1,258,299
Baucus, Max (D-MT) $1,191,163
Schumer, Charles E (D-NY)$1,130,500
Specter, Arlen (D-PA) $1,066,755
Lieberman, Joe (I-CT) $1,037,652
Grassley, Chuck (R-IA) $983,674
Neal, Richard E (D-MA) $974,031
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) $953,557
Boehner, John (R-OH) $939,656
DeWine, Mike (R-OH) $923,163
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) $884,936..

[QC]

13. Obama's gotten a lot more from the insurance racket than Lieberman. n/t

[chill_wind]

15. Yes. Quite a few have. n/t

[bertman]

125. The equation changes when you factor in the salary of Mrs. Lieberman who served as a

"senior counselor" in the firm's "health care and pharmaceuticals practice," referring to her job with Hill & Knowlton, one of the biggest lobbyists in D.C. No doubt her compensation package was very "healthy".

Joe Conason's commentary in Salon helps explain how our Senators' and Congresscritters' spouses (hence said Senators and Congresscritters also) benefit financially from their close ties to the very folks their husbands/wives are supposed to regulate.

It's called "In Bed with Big Pharma"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2006/09/01/hadassah_lieberman/

[Enthusiast]

130. Excellent point. nt

[chill_wind]

146. Thanks for that link, bertman.

Some nasty shady appearances, there. Yes it does seem it would add to the money/influence equation.

[bertman]

154. Indeed, chill_wind. We know about Mrs. Bayh and Mrs. Daschel. How many others are

there who have sold their souls for money and access. Of course, they'll say that their positions in those industry groups have NOTHING to do with how their spouses vote.

[Raine]

22. JESUS(!) that sure explains Obama

letting all the important things like public option etc. go into the dumper! :wow: :cry:

[Enthusiast]

131. I am deeply disappointed.

But my disappointment is nothing compared to millions of dollars. Thousands will actually die because our elected representatives have betrayed us.

[olegramps]

45. Best government that money can buy.

[piratefish08]

47. That list just kinda says it all..........

We were fucked from the beginning.

Even worse than NO hope, is encouraging hope and then squashing it.

We're fucked.

[Enthusiast]

132. Yeah.

Why did we waste our effort?

[Enthusiast]

129. That's pretty ugly.

There's some transparency for you!

Does anyone doubt this money has influenced the outcome of health care legislation? If you do I must question your sanity.

[bvar22]

16. If Team DLC needed another Corporate Owned Democrat....

...to take one for the TEAM to protect Corporate Profits, they could easily command one.
As it is, Former Chairman of the DLC Joe Lieberman is enough for the Kabuki Theater, and he has nothing to lose.



The DLC New Team

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)


”I am a New Democrat!”---Barack Obama
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254931&kaid=85&subid=900184

[snot]

17. K&R'd

[maglatinavi]

18. debbierlus

This is sooooo depressing!!! and to think of all time spent demonstrating for true health care... sigh! To think of all the hours in the hot Texas sun demonstrating for the public option!!! we have been fooled!
the worst part is to think how Teddy has been betrayed by the potus...
:cry: :cry: :cry:
it screams to high heaven that Teddy went so out of his way to campaign for ob... and his life dream has been high jacked!!! It makes me cry my eyes and heart out...:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: kick them all in their collective Dem's derrieres...
If only Hillary had been elected... sigh

[tavalon]

31. I hate to rain on your parade, but it wouldn't have been one bit different

if Hillary was elected. We don't get to choose, really. It's more of an illusion of a choice. Much like the illusion of debate in the Senate right now. It's all a stupid ass reality show, having nothing really to do with reality.

[Enthusiast]

134. Agree. nt

[eridani]

39. The only difference was that Hillary was honest about how she intended to fuck us over n/t

[therealbarack]

110. n/t

[Raine]

19. YUP let Joe take the flack

he's the whipping boy and happy to do it as long as his special interests are paying him and he keeps his seat too.

[Joe the Liberal]

20. Well that's one possibility......

Lieberman provides the Dems with an excuse so that if the health care "reform" they (the Dems) pass turns out to be garbage they can just say "well we tried but Lieberman and the repugs were just to powerful, go blame them".

basically Lieberman is their scapegoat and provides not only an excuse but someone who can take all the blame if health care reform turns out to be shitty.

I can see that happening, it's certainly a possibility and I wouldn't rule it out.

[upi402]

21. Thank you, I agree. And I am not fooled

I'm topped the fuck off! Fed up. I'm so glad I never gave any money or time to corporate Dems; Gore, Kerry, Obama, et al.

[LooseWilly]

23. Well well... I think you're even more cynical than I am.

After seeing chill_wind's numbers down thread though, whatever doubts I might've harbored (not many really)... well, let's just say that the remaining patina of doubt is nearly translucent.

It's enough to make me feel better about my vote for Nader in 2000. At least I wound up with 8 extra years without a mandate to buy private health insurance "for my own good"...

[chill_wind]

25. Take that along

with the "Fat Cats'" money... as we've taken to calling them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7221990&mesg_id=7223254

(more top donor/recipient tallies)

and we're up against a massive amount of inertia and crushing weight of corp self-interest.

[LooseWilly]

32. Ironically, I can't help wishing these Corps had as much foresight in their industries...

as they had politically.

Then again... it can easily be argued that it amounted to the same thing, as politics bailed them out of their failed gambling in their own industries...

Hell, I thought United should've been allowed to fail after 9/11... I have no problem with suggesting that AIG and their ilk should've been allowed to fail... or been bailed out by having the Feds pay off all the bad mortgages that they signed onto ("it takes two to tango", why pay off those who offer bad debts, in preference to those who gamble by taking them on?... the morality of "Rich Man's Virtue" doesn't hold for me...)

Obviously, I'm not a good citizen though... so I'll shut up for the nonce...

[glitch]

98. They really only have one skill: THEFT and they are damn good at it. nt

[amborin]

24. k&r

[laughingliberal]

27. Tell me again how I can tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans

Cause I'm still seeing the working class sold out to corporate America. And neither party tries to hide it anymore.

[hfojvt]

37. here's one way, if you are old enough to remember this

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/electionissues/tp/Bush-Vetos.htm

here's another

http://www.speaker.gov/issues?id=0037

"The previous Republican-controlled Congresses blocked minimum wage proposals from being considered. In 2006 alone, Republicans blocked minimum wage legislation from coming to a vote 11 times. The minimum wage increase passed by the Democratic-led Congress is the first pay raise for working Americans in almost 10 years."

[olegramps]

46. Yes, this failure on HCR has overshadowed his accomplishments.

The sad thing is that it may very well usher in a take over of congress by Republicans. If people think its desperate now, it will be hopeless of the Republicans succeed in their campaign of obstructionism and regain contol of congress.

[laughingliberal]

55. All true. Although I'm getting cynical enough now to believe the White House

would find it easier to push a more conservative agenda. Remember, most Democrats gave Clinton a pass on his move to the right after 1994. We justified it by saying he had to work with the Republican majorities to get anything done.

[hfojvt]

86. I never gave him a pass

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/71

[laughingliberal]

52. You're right. That was a good thing. Guess I'm not showing sufficient gratitude for the crumbs the

they have thrown us. Of course, I'm happy the minimum wage was increased. I have to say, though, that any gain workers may see as the result of that are about to be channeled to the insurance industry. Same thing we've gone through for decades-stagnating wages in large part due to rising health care costs. Health care costs will now continue up but workers will be on the hook to cover the increases more directly under penalty of law.

[hfojvt]

85. that's not true either

minimum wage workers will be subsidized. The government will pay for much of their health insurance.

It seems to take a particular type of lens to equate Republicans and Democrats. First, you forget the things the Republicans did - like cut taxes mostly for the wealthy, start two wars, allow the World Trade Center to be attacked, pass lousy environmental bills and call them 'Clear Skies', pass giveaways to the lumber industry and call it 'healthy forests', etc. ,etc., etc.

Then you turn every Democratic molehill into a mountain. Anything Democrats do wrong, or incompletely, gets blown into a mountain. It is a disaster and failure and sell-out and betrayal of epic proportions. It is always unacceptable!! Put Democrats under a microscope and micromanage and nitpick everything they do. Are they closing Gitmo? Not fast enough. Are they ending the Iraq occupation? Not fast enough. Are they helping the unemployed and shortening the recession? Not effective enough. And so on.

Then turn the microscope around, so anything they do can be called a mere crumb. Increase in the minimum wage? So what? Tax cut for working poor? So what? Infrastructure spending? So what? So what? So what?

Talk about a high maintenance relationship.

[laughingliberal]

169. Ah, you are correct. The minimum wage workers will fall under the expansion of Medicaid

I'm not sure where I equated Democrats with Republicans. And I do not consider the sellout of health care reform to be a molehill. I'm not nit-picking. The progress you mention is positive but that is having to put the whole thing under a microscope to find the good. I'm good with trying to close Gitmo and don't recall raising any hell over it not happening fast enough. As for the unemployment, I am a bit pissed off at a Democratic president who stands up and says, "We have limited resources," about job creation programs after there seemed to be no limit to the help for the banksters.
Sorry, there has been a lot of damage done to the working class over the past 30 years. And it will take time to turn it around. But, it will also take more than token efforts. I apologize if that sounds demanding and harsh but diminishing wages and longer work hours every year with full unemployment for 2 years, now, and no health insurance have taken a toll on me. Can't fix it all at once? Fine. Let's hear some support for some progressive policies. A little less coddling of the wealthy right wing element, a little less courting of the insurance industry campaign contributions, a little more support for those of us who were really creamed in this disaster. And I don't mean Citibank. I'm loyal. I'll stick by people long after I probably should have given up. But I need something to help me believe they're still on our side. How about a little support for EFCA? That would go a ways in showing some worker friendly cred. Support unions. Rebuilding a union work force would probably help the workers more in the long run than a tax cut (although I believe we could have both). And it costs not a penny to support it. Can't get it done? That's ok. I would rather see you tried your hardest and failed than gave up before it got off the ground. And I am not high maintenance. I'm pretty much good, right now, with hoping we can keep one of our old, beater cars running cause we're gonna lose our house and I realize we're lucky to have a car for shelter instead of others in the area with a cardboard box. See? I'm easy.

[tavalon]

29. Yep, Dog meet Pony. Commence show.

[glitch]

99. Ah, The Dog and Pony Show.

No wonder they kept bringing up ponies. I wondered where that came from.

[WT Fuheck]

33. The fix was in long ago,

well before the "election."

[KansDem]

120. Perhaps that's why Kucinich was eliminated early on...

I remember supporting him until he dropped out, then supporting Edwards until he dropped out.

That left Hillary and Obama, so I just waited to see who the "front runner" would be and vowed to support that candidate.

I wondered why Kucinich dropped out so early, and why Edwards came in second in Iowa but wasn't mentioned in the media the next day. They talked only about Hillary and Obama.

Now I know why...

[WT Fuheck]

167. It's all a show just to keep us infotained.

The owners of the country would never let democracy actually happen.

[inna]

34. Yep. My thoughts exactly.

KR, as always.

[Ken Burch]

35. Hard to argue against that analysis.

n/t.

[earth mom]

38. Great post but I'd say most of Washington DC is full of a bunch of self serving, narcissistic

egotistical, and pathetic little worms who are not acting alone. Lieberman is just "playing his role", but so are the rest of the bastards who are pretending to be dems and really aren't.

:grr:

[debbierlus]

80. I agree. It is the hypocrisy and backstabbing that kill me

The Republicans are horrible, but they are a known enemy.

The Democrats pretend they are for the people, and then act just like the Republicans. It is disgusting.

[pleah]

43. K&R

[Vinnie From Indy]

44. I believe you are correct! This has all been arranged

I now believe that Obama and many Dems in the Senate worked this out months ago. They are all simply playing their parts in the grand con game.

[HughMoran]

58. Still waiting for any evidence at all

Simply dreaming up scenarios to explain when things go a certain way is fun, but has no basis in reality if you just make it up as you go.

[reflection]

51. I thought this myself but wondered if I was being too cynical.

Thank you for articulating it so well.

[HughMoran]

59. So saying it in just the right way makes it "true" for you

Evidence to support such a theory be damned?

[reflection]

65. No, not really.

I am telling the OP that his/her thoughts mirror my own, and confirm that I am not alone. Whether it is "true" or not remains to be seen. Or not.

[Ignis]

95. It's a hypothesis, not a theory.

And as such, asking for evidence might be premature.

That being said, I'm sure Holy Joe will provide the evidence in time, if not the motive therefor.

[debbierlus]

60. I don't know how anyone can be too cynical given the events of the last 9 years.

:evilfrown:

[Jackpine Radical]

62. Lilly Tomlin: No matter how cynical you are,

it's impossible to keep up.

[CrispyQ]

82. I love Lilly!

"Things are going to have to get a lot worse before they get worse."

[rudy23]

56. I called it weeks ago. Lieberman is Obama's mentor---he's helping him out here.

Lieberman is only upsetting the people who already hate him. Obama wanted an insurance-friendly bill from the beginning, and Joe is here to bail him out. Not that complicated.

[xultar]

97. Innnneresting.

[HughMoran]

57. Have any evidence to support this scenario?

...or are you simply defending Lieberman as you are working for the dark side?

[Jackpine Radical]

61. Deb, you're nuts. You're raving paranoid.

Or, to put it another way, you have what it takes to see through the illusions to reality. I agree with you entirely about health care, and about Lieberman. He's what you get when you cross a stalking horse with a chameleon.

[femrap]

66. Good analysis.

I was hoping that a couple of the Dems...say Franken or Brown...would demonstrate the troubling aspects of Joe's mental state. Three months ago he is for Meicare Buy-in and now he isn't. He is behaving irrationally...possibly dementia is setting in.

Of course AIPAC would have a fit.

So you're probably right.

But a couple of well placed innuendos would be nice to hear to start a nice Whisper Campaign of Mental Instability.


edit...typo

[robinlynne]

67. unfortunately it is the best explanation I've heard.

[Marr]

68. Yep. Isn't it interesting how the only member of the caucus who

doesn't have to even put up the thinnest impression of being on the left anymore, since so much of his support is Republican, is also the one who gives Democrats cover for this sort of thing? It's obvious what's going on here, and it isn't just Lieberman or Rahm Emanuel that are the problems.

[debbierlus]

79. Any dem senator could threaten to make their demands met - Odd it is only

utilized by the opposition to screw the American people...

Is there not ONE true patriot among them?

Not one?

[Cleita]

69. I have to agree with you.

It's like they are relieved that Joe pulled this off and that they had to remove what was meaningful in the bill. But it makes sense when you think that many of them are up for reelection next year and they don't want to be cut off campaign contributions from those corporations. Our Congress is corrupted by these bribes on both sides of the aisle.

[wordpix]

71. "Why do you think there is such a mad rush for passage by Christmas? "

Your ideas are plausible; however, Congresscritters MUCH prefer vacation and shaking down constituents and corporations for campaign donations to doing the people's health care business.

[flyarm]

73. Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate

yepppppp..dog and pony show..or good cop, bad cop!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate

By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Lieberman’s "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Here’s David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obama’s stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:

snip:

Other sources, including the Hartford Courant, reported that Obama chose Lieberman as his mentor.]

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

[rtassi]

139. Yep! n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

74. Very well put. That makes a lot of sense.

:thumbsup:

[Blue Owl]

75. Pretty much sums it up

Time to flush that turd once and for all.

[Political Heretic]

76. Of course that's what's going on. It's not subtle at all.

[newtothegame]

78. These are Republican talking points.

Wasn't it just a few short months ago that we were ok with noone being able to read the bill and we were blasting conservatives for complaining about closed-door legislating or bills being rammed through? But now we're taking that very same stance from them that we ripped apart just a few months ago?

ed for sp

[harun]

81. Agree 10,000 percent but it isn't stopping Joe from coming out and

supporting the bill. They couldn't scape goat him then.

[closeupready]

83. You utterly nailed that one to the wall.

Major K&R

[Goldstein1984]

84. If Lieberman isn't held accountable for his tactics

then we know how unrepresentative our representatives are.

Given what so many Americans are going to loose for lack of meaningful health care reform, if Lieberman doesn't at least lose his Homeland Security Chairmanship, there is something very wrong. A new Research 2000 poll shows 81% of Democrats want Lieberman to lose the chairmanship, as opposed to 10% of Republicans. That tells you whose man Lieberman is.

[66 dmhlt]

136. Short of serious malfeasance, doubt Lieberman can be removed as Chair

By the Rules of the Senate, the Chair and party ratios assigned to each Committee is set by a Senate Resolution at the outset of every Congress. By a Senate Resolution Lieberman was seated as Chair of Homeland Security and Government Affairs.

It would take another Senate Resolution to remove the Chair of a Committee.

So if the goal were to remove Lieberman (and a worthy goal that most assuredly is), which Republican do you think Democrats could possibly recruit to come up with the 60th vote for cloture, for surely Lieberman is NOT going to vote to remove himself - and Republicans would have absolutely no incentive to remove him (he's one of theirs now).

And so he has his Chair until the 112th Congress is seated.

[Generator]

87. Forcing the poor to be poorer-the bill will take away health care from children!

If this is true, fuck the senate, fuck Obama. This bill is like a form of slavery to the insurance industry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/donna-norton/ipeaceful-revolutioni-thr_b_392912.html


And now in another blow to kids, some children could actually end up worse under health reform than they are now. Must we dress our kids in pin-stripped suits in order to get their interests represented?

Under the current Senate health bill, most of the 7 million children currently covered by the popular and successful Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) would be moved to the new insurance exchanges created by health reform. The result? A recent study by First Focus finds that children moving from CHIP to the exchange plans would dramatically increase out-of-pocket expenses for their families. For example, the First Focus study estimates that out-of-pocket costs for a child living in a family earning 225 percent of the Federal poverty level would increase by 1,100 percent if the Senate were to join the House in repealing CHIP.

[voteearlyvoteoften]

88. K&R!

[Blasphemer]

89. They have been given a mandate for change by the public and yet...

We get an insurance industry giveaway. You are 100% correct - this must have been the plan from the beginning. There is NO other explanation. The 60 vote meme was bullshit from the beginning. Everyone in the MSM blasted the 60 vote idea from every rooftop so they could convince people that they needed 60 votes for any decision made. Conveniently, #60 can be reliably blamed for any decision that serves corporate interests instead of the American public. They are all complicit.

[ArcticFox]

114. I must admit I was wrong.

Not that I ever thought this would help regular people. But I believed Obama's speach on healthcare. I simply thought they would pass a public option taking effect in 4 years like he said. Of course, that would give everybody an opportunity to say in the meantime that it really wasn't needed and to take it away later after the public attention was diverted to something else.

I'm sure that was the plan at the time. Probably, they didn't spread the word among insurance companies and/or legislators and some got nervous. Republicans were most likely never told either. Even if they were, they probably figured: "why wait for this to die in 4 years? If we kill this now, we defeat Obama and guarantee wins in 2010 and 2012."

Whatever the reason, I am not at all surprised that this has turned into a payment of tax dollars to insurance companies. It's an Orwellian world in which we live.

[dana_b]

90. hmmm... you're probably right

about Joe, I mean. I know the bill is shit.

[Capers]

91. Who wants a farted-on chair anyways?

[FLAprogressive]

92. K&R

[winyanstaz]

96. yes...both parties have sold us out....

[ShortnFiery]

100. Sadly, you're probably 100% correct. eom

[sandyj999]

101. I Believe You Have a Valid Point. n/t

[whathehell]

102. I agree with you completely.....After watching Cenk's video, I decided

to send the prez an email asking him if he thought we were stupid, assuring him we were not, and wishing him luck in 2012, because if he continues his LAME performance, he will surely need it.

[valerief]

106. +1 gazillion. nt

[democracy1st]

107. K & R

[Stinky The Clown]

109. I can buy that

K&R

[defendandprotect]

111. Either you're exactly right or Joe Lieberman is more powerful that Pres. Obama . . .!!!!

:evilgrin:

[RufusTFirefly]

112. And Lieberman as the front man will get a windfall

The Illness Industry will either stuff his pockets with campaign contributions or save him a plum spot in the private sector a la Rep. Billy Tauzin, who spent time in Congress as a corporate shill before taking over as CEO of PhRMA.

[secondwind]

113. I think this kind of skepticism is still unwarranted. Let's wait and see what happens.

[ArcticFox]

Seriously?

Many Germans took that same attitude in the 30s and 40s when they heard rumors of concentration camps. Some of them probably said the same thing even as Nazis were marching them to the edges of ditches. If you don't wake up until you're staring at the corpses at the bottom, then you're destined to join them.

[bertman]

155. "If you don't wake up until you're staring at the corpses at the bottom". Great stuff, AF.

[Sunnyshine]

115. Right on! It is a game and it is theirs alone to be played. Voters are spectators. Nuff said. nt

[NorthCarolina]

117. It's simpler than that., Lieberman is a staunch DLC supporter

and the DLC holds the Democratic Party hostage. Rahm, Obama's big power broker on Capitol Hill is DLC, and it seems highly likely that Obama is as well (just undocumented for public consumption).

The DLC came to Joe Liebermans rescue by supporting, funding, and working on his 2006 Senate campaign as an Independent candidate to defeat the progressive Democratic Candidate, Ned Lamont. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/17/520896.aspx

Lieberman is "one of the good ol' boys" from the conservative DLC clan, and they are obviously protecting his Senate interests. It would surprise me greatly if Lieberman suffered any consequences whatsoever from his actions, as he is likely working at the behest of the DLC.

[theFrankFactor]

118. AMEN!!!!! The Masses Wake From Their Dream!!

[Kermitt Gribble]

119. I agree. K&R!

[DebbieCDC]

121. Interesting point

[ChiciB1]

122. Sounds Plausible... I Think He KNOWS He'll NEVER Get Re-Elected....

S0000000000000, her the asshole who's willing to put his neck out!

Just heard a couple of Reps saying "well Joe has been good for women's rights, and other stuff" so they're defending him!

Sounds like THEY like him too! Sorry, I didn't catch their names, a neighbor of mine who has Dementia was trying to talk to me!

Maybe someone else knows!

SICK!!

[jsmandrake]

123. JOE LIEBERMAN AS DEMOCRATIC PROXY

YES....ABSOLUTELY IT!
In fact the entire governmental set up is one big Ponzi Pyramid of Proxy.
Obama, now the titular head

[Vidar]

124. Very believable explanation. Recommended.

[DailyGrind51]

126. Your conclusion can't be argued from viewing the evidence.

[RagAss]

127. You hit the nail on the head !

[earcandle]

128. we are not going for it.

[MilesColtrane]

133. It's been just over 48 hours since Lieberman dropped his stink bomb.

There may be reprisals yet.

Who knows what packages of carrots and sticks are being proposed to Traitor Joe?

Not me, and not you.

[DesertFlower]

135. that's an interesting point.

[spanone]

137. they don't take away his chair, cause they love him...

today President Obama held a meeting with the DEMOCRATS...lieberman was there....he's not a democrat, but they LOVE him

[varelse]

138. that is a very plausible theory

I'm not sure it is the only reason, but it could be one of them.

[rtassi]

140. Agreed with a rec n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

141. As good a conspiracy theory as any. n/t

[Dr Fate]

160. Makes a dandy coincidence theory as well. I think the OP is on to something. n/t

n/t

[hulka38]

142. Ohhh noooo! Will you look what happened again? We just could not get it done.

It's really very difficult. Some of you won't understand the complexities and nuances of lawmaking. Trust me, we did all we could. If you give us a few more seats next time I can almost guarantee we will give you real reform.

Signed,

Democratic Leadership

[keitai]

143. Worried...

Spot on. I can totally see that happening. I guess the next thing to ask is how can this thing be killed or reformed?
I have said on these forums that Obama is up against a system that will take time to bring down. But he may very well end up being seduced by it as others have. I am seeing more evidence that this is the case.

[branders seine]

145. But all we need is 101 votes in the Senate, and we

can pass at least something.

I promise!

Send checks or money orders to: U.R. Screwn, Washington DC

[Slit Skirt]

148. bravo....you are f*cking right on

just like the right needed bin laden alive (and not captured)to have a "bogie man" to justify everything they are doing from spying to torture to continuing the patriot act........and they still need him today to justify afghanistan....

TIME TO WAKE UP

[MissMarple]

149. Sadly, that is too, too obvious. They don't need him, we know that.

They need 50 votes and Joe Biden. Cowards.

[quiet.american]

151. What drama. nt

[bedazzled]

152. i still don't believe that lieberman ended up in this position by accident

what are the chances, he ends up in control of the
whole senate? i think we were played a long time
ago. course i'm a conspiracy theorist from way
back...

[nomaco-10]

153. Bullshit.. I've come to the conclusion that dems AREN'T.....

that damn smart unfortunately.

But, I am hoping and thinking that they will wise up sooner rather than later.

That's just me, ever the optimist.

[droidamus2]

156. Question?

What would happen if there was a complete refusal by people to submit to the requirement to buy health insurance from the private companies. I know this would be hard for those with families but how about an even more extreme approach where people even opt out of their employer paid plans. Everybody uses the emergency room and when you don't get good service raise hell. Basically either we get the kind of health care at a reasonable price (single payer is my option) and good service or we will bankrupt the insurance companies. Maybe even go outside the law and set up some kind of cooperatives where we help those that need care the most. If those we elect can't or refuse to get the job done maybe we need to do a little 'out of the box' thinking and come up with some ideas that can be implemented at the grass roots level.

[juajen]

163. Good idea, and, after all, this was how insurance companies came into existance. NT

[Lorien]

157. I was making this very case to a friend today

seems obvious. Dems want anything that serves the people and costs the corporations dead. As someone else; when they have plenty of money for war and nothing for jobs or health care, it ain't about or for us.

[peacetalksforall]

158. If the OP and all of you are right (and it's very, very plausible) than it means either of two

scenarios. And I am frightened. Could it be .... Obama and the DLC are not as clever and smart as they seem because they have become super transparent. Or are they super transparent because they don't care that they are. Transparency without caring means arrogance. Arrogance means they know something we don't. It means they don't care that we know it (the health plan) is all another form of theft. And something is coming next that is even worse since they don't care that we know what they are doing?

The key traits of Cheney Bush Rumsfeld was transparency to some of us combined with utter arrogance and their battalions were passionately arrogant in act and defense - layers and layers of their facilitators - from vote theft to the AG firings to the RNC type meetings in government offices on government time led by the department head. The theft of money in Iraq, the 4.3 trillion missing money at the DOD under their war manufacturer Comptroller.

What per cent of the people is Obama targeting if it's true that he wants to say he/Dems did something? How many are going to believe him?

Left with symptoms and clues and the ability to piece things together, there is some quality speculation here on the logic side of things based on nine years and more of watching Republicans at work and averting our eyes from the Dems.

If neither side cares about not being able to hide the subterfuge - how bad is the next act?

I'll say it again - the corporations are at war against us. There is a civil war going on here.

Is the U.S. setting the stage for a couple of hundred years of reign of the wealthy over the serfs?

Factor it and counter it, if you wish. I'll read, I'll listen.

We saw more light when Cheney was on his way out, but now it's dimming.

The transparency could use more light, one way or another. Is something else coming soon?

How many more collective losses can we take?

[Laelth]

159. Very insightful. I am not fooled. Obama is responsible.

I can see Rahm's fingerprints all over this mess. He is doing a very good job of controlling every step of this process from top to bottom, and he is following the President's orders.

I am not as angry with Lieberman as I am with Obama. He's selling us out.

:dem:

-Laelth

[puebloknot]

162. An involuntary "general strike" could be the result of this bill.

If people can't pay the high premiums that already exist, and will surely rise, they are going to do the only possible thing -- they are going to pay the rent and buy food, until the gendarmes arrive to throw them in the clinker for the crime of not paying health insurance (which ensures nothing)premiums.

What is it about England and Ireland, Canada, France, Italy, Switzerland, and even a number of Third World countries that makes it possible for them to take care of their citizens' health care issues while still staying alive as a country? How is America so different? Maybe it's those wars of aggression that America so decries while waging them!

Give me a break! No, don't. A broken leg or arm might be the straw that breaks the camel's back with regard to my bank account. (And how will the camel pay for health care for a broken back?) It's all too much. We'll all need psychiatric care, but it will most likely be an exclusion to any "health care" policy available to the common man/woman.

"And nothing is but what is not"! ~~ William Shakespeare

[lonestarnot]

165. It's all a fucking scam. I don't know why I waste energy watching.

[catzies]

166. The single biggest "OMFG" recommendation I have ever given. No more words.

n/t

[democracy1st]

168. Kick