It's personal for lieberman, has nothing to do with health care..

[warrior1]

MATTHEWS: Uh, let's talk about this thing with Harry Reid and Lieberman. I call him "Joe the bummer" as in "Joe the plumber," because he's brilliantly timing this thing. 'I'm not for this, I'm not for the public option, now I'm not for the buy-in on Medicare,' the H-55. He's just killing these guys.

FINEMAN: Well, I talked to his spokesman today, I said, look, I'm going on Hardball, give me your side of the story. Okay, their side of the story is, it's a principled thing, there's many parts of the bill he believes in, the Medicare buy-in is an add-on because there's already subsidies. And the guy gave me a lot of plausible stuff. Okay. And I half believe it. I'm sorry ...

MATTHEWS: What's the other half of your beliefs?

FINEMAN: The other half is it's personal with Joe, not with Obama, 'cause don't forget that Obama, the President, supported Lieberman in the fight in the party in Connecticut. It's the grassroots left of the Democratic Party ...

MATTHEWS: That enjoyed his torture.

FINEMAN: That enjoyed his torture and this is payback to them. Obama, excuse me, the President's caught in the middle here. That's my take on it.

MATTHEWS: So he wants Markos Moulitsas to take a hit.

FINEMAN: He wants Moulitsas, he wants Firedoglake, he wants all those people who rode around on the bus of the challenger, who defeated him in the Democratic primary.

[GKirk]

1. Did you mean...

...that it's personal for Joe?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. let's return the favor.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Don't believe the spin

Lieberman has ALWAYS been about Lieberman. There is no new news there. Framing this as "Lieberman's revenge" misses the real reason that HRC is in it's death throes - Dem Senators and Obama wanted it that way. The fact is Joe is irrelevant to the passage of the bill. He is gleefully playing the spoiler and he is taking one for the team of Democratic Senators that DO NOT want a meaningful bill passed. Obama is not caught in the middle. I don't believe that for a minute.

[tularetom]

4. I'm reluctantly coming around to that point of view

Lieberman is nothing more than a decoy for the Dems to hide behind.

The sad fact is, we voted for FDR, but we got Clinton.

[mdmc]

5. Joementum is Obama's boy - let Obama deal with him

Health care reform is Obama's victory to lose. If Obama wanted Joementum over Lamont, he sure did get that.
Lamont would be all for HRC. Joementum is for Rham..

[HughMoran]

9. I love these crazy "this is the way they wanted it" BS

If you can show me any plausible evidence or any reason why Obama would want to fail, then I'll listen to you.

Until then it's just a crazy defeatist viewpoint.

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. Who says Obama will "fail"

You have a false construct. The fact is that it could be huge win for Obama to pass a bill that looks like reform, but really isn't. HE gets a victory, corporatist Dems get to campaign as being for the little guy and the insurance companies get millions of new customers with Uncle Sam as the enforcer to get their money. There are lots of winnners in that scenario. The losers are the American public.

[HughMoran]

11. That doesn't explain your crazy conspiracy theory that this is what they wanted all along

Please explain with FACTS how Joe was assigned the "dupe" roll.

[Vinnie From Indy]

13. You mean like with depositions, 8" x 10" glossy photos and stuff?

How about you prove me wrong instead?

[HughMoran]

16. "a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven

false"

"Argument from ignorance"

:rofl:

[EOTE]

21. I KNOW, that's absolutely CRAZY!

How sad is it that there are some who believe that corporations would try to use their money in order to influence politicians to do their bidding. Crazy tin foil hatters!

[flyarm]

20. Rep. Capuano Tells Fellow Dems: 'You're Screwed'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/rep-capuano-te...

[EOTE]

22. Fixed link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/rep-capuano-tells-fellow_n_392685.html

[flyarm]

23. thank you i was rushed and had to go out!! eom

[swilton]

14. Totally Agree that this is a distraction

Look at the Democrotic legacy of enabling the status quo. During the Bush administration it was endless wars, Guantanamo torture, violations of the Geneva Conventions, support for Supreme Court nominees. At that time, they hid behind their inability to have majorities in the house and senate.

Now you have more endless wars, same direction in foreign policies, bailout for Wall Street and not Main Street, demonstrable attempts to weaken Kyoto,

I am against making Lieberman, as well as Cheney and Palin, scapegoats or laughing stocks. This is about distracting us from holding the Democrotic leadership accountable to the publlics that elected them.

I think that Obama has mishandled this, the War in Afghanistan and the economy - sad to say - he ran on change. Though he has made minute tweaks in the failed critical policies of the prior two administrations, the bar had been set so low, that his minor tinkering does not offer fundamental solutions to the gravest problems that we now face.

I can't really figure Obama out - I give him credit for being smart. Perhaps his hubris is getting in the way from his ability to see that the big picture. The failure to change direction is alienating his base to his detriment. I didn't expect him to appeal to the far right and the ilk of tea baggers, etc. but he needs to appease the masses of the left, his base so to speak because in the long run they would offer him cover.

[tabatha]

18. Well, why the hell did Obama even try.

That is just plain stupid nuttery - much like one sees on FR.

[Javaman]

6. so throwing the nations poor under the bus because of a personal vendetta.

very nice joe, very nice.

what a prick.

[HughMoran]

7. Destroy Lieberman

He wants to play games with peoples lives for his own personal vendetta?

Destroy him. :mad:

[flyarm]

8. what a crock..this was and is all planned..and Joe is the dog and pony show the big boys need!

to shove shit on a shingle to you..the American people..good cop bad cop..


Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate
By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Lieberman’s "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Here’s David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obama’s stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

[WeDidIt]

15. Sorry, but mentors are assigned, not chosen

Lieberman was assigned by Senate leadership.

New Senators do not get to choose their mentor.

I am pissed at Obama's capitulation to Lieberman, but I cannot abide false information being propogated as truth.

[flyarm]

17. Other sources, including the Hartford Courant, reported that Obama " chose" Lieberman as his mentor.

Other sources, including the Hartford Courant, reported that Obama chose Lieberman as his mentor.

That was in the Firedoglake link..

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

[undeterred]

12. Obama went to bat for Joe, but he won't go to bat for the people.

[flyarm]

19. ahhh..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/rep-capuano-te...