IF HCR fails, are you going to lie down and accept the meme - "well, that's it, then?"

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

There's a thread in GDP that quotes Biden on Morning Joe this morning opining that if we fail this time around, that's it for another generation.

Why would anyone think that? Is continuing to eat up our GDP with an outrageous percentage devoted to healthcare going to somehow become acceptable? Will the 40K deaths a year go away? Will the financial ruin of American families through no fault of their own, except for having the misfortune to become ill or injured, become less devastating?

I predict the issue will become LARGER and may finally light the match for the populist rebellion/political revolt that has been necessary for so long.

If these guys and this President can't get it done, than it time to find some that can. Joe Biden, I've always liked you, but if you think we're gonna take it for another generation, you've got another think coming!!!

If healthcare reform doesn't get done this time around, I say we organize the netroots like they have never been organized before over this single imperative issue. Instead of accepting what they dribble out to us, it time for us to make some demands of our own. We tried it their "uniquely American graft- fueled way" now let's do it our way! And we might as well go for broke and demand single payer. I say that only because our Congress has proven itself incapable of any real negotiating and trying to find a way that includes for profit insurers that doesn't undermine the entire point of reform in the first place. They had their chance with that one and they failed bigtime. Single payer, here we come!

[endless october]

1. hasn't it already failed?

even if it passes, the bill is shit.

if they want to wait a generation to start over, they can look for another line of work.

[kenny blankenship]

2. You will get real health care reform when they are afraid of you.

And not before.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. That is exactly my point.

I would be happy to join a populist movement for real healthcare reform. If it means sit-ins and marches, etc. count me in. Being a good little voter/contributer got me and everyone else squat.

[martymar64]

23. Being a good little voter/contributer got me and everyone else squat.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. I'm weary of the lack of a mere attempt to at least....

THINK of something to DO about this mess and how to get their attention.

I'm as tired and stressed and beaten up as the rest of us as a collective. Some of us still (barely) have a roof over our heads, and I'm grateful for that. I know many here don't even have that blessing.

More of us will be without the basic necessities of life if we don't figure out SOMETHING.

We bitch and moan and gnash out teeth and fight with one another and get NOWHERE.

Can at least a group of us try to work toward SOME semblance of a plan so we don't feel so disempowered in this process? Something different, something we haven't done before?

That's why I appreciate this post, Phoebe. I appreciate any post that is at least attempting to be action-oriented, even if we don't know what action to take.

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7230248

[eridani]

5. Nope. First get them to pull the items in the House bill--

--funding more community clinics and rewarding med students for choosing primary care, and pass them as separate bills.

[jtrockville]

6. Why would anyone think that? Because that's what their TOLD to think.

We should have demanded nothing less than single-payer from the beginning. It's the only real solution. Nothing else makes sense, unless the purpose is to protect insurance industry profits.

[kenny blankenship]

15. +1 that will be the demand of real reformers

the present fiasco began as a preemptive strike on real reform. They wanted to pass something to protect the insurance industry's profits, and to try to protect the collapsing system AGAINST real reform for as long as possible by freezing the system in its current shape by force of law.

But it got out of hand, as one smiling crook vied with the next to see who could be the biggest friend of the insurance mafia. No pressure was exerted against Senators who held up the passage of a draft bill, because the party leadership shared the goal of creating a joke reform. Stick in the mud Senators were a plausible excuse for trading away anything that might help citizens and curb the insurance mafia. But each round of "compromises" --giveaways really-- just brought on another. They knew there would be multiple compromises of the compromise. That's how you grind down the marks and get them to swallow shit. And round and round it went, but maybe in their excited greed they lost count of how many times the wheel went around. They compromised the compromise until even the most blindly loyal Democrats, desperately clinging to hope for progress and faith in their elected leaders, could see that the supposed "reform" was in fact a screwjob by racketeers.

[stray cat]

7. at least until 2012

If the GOP wins - they will get it done but I doubt you will like the plan better than you do this one

[zoff]

19. Not if their plan pisses off their own voters as well.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Please explain how a net roots organization can counter the wealth and power of the

insurance companies and get single payer. Unless one could get a hundred million people to go on a national strike, it'll never happen.

[lamp_shade]

9. Nope. Not me.

[Javaman]

10. what part of 75% of the nation wants it but the politicians ignore us

do you have a hard time grasping?

the fix was in from the start.

If there wasn't electronic voting, I would suggest people vote them out, but alas, we no longer have that power.

What were you saying again?

[undeterred]

11. Some of us might actually die.

[flyarm]

12. and that is exactly what you are going to be fed..it is all a dog and pony show..

with Lieberman the dog..this is planned and is being executed for the big boys..and you are not invited to the secret parties!..They don't give a rats fucking ass about your health care..or reform..the only reform planned is giving big Pharma and the Big insurance boys a wonderful welfare plan that you will pay for..they will use Lieberman as the scapegoat..just to suck you in..so you accept any piece of shit they throw at you!!!!

wake up American..you have been conned by the best in the business!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate
By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Lieberman’s "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Here’s David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obama’s stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

[rucky]

13. Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. n/t

[swilton]

14. I don't like Biden's Scare Tactics

which ignore the fact that in my view the entire policy process was mishandled through the executive branch.

I actually hope this garbage fails - and that the match is lit. The insurance companies are making huge profits from this major subsidizing of failure and the people deserve better.

[guitar man]

16. Actually, I'm going to sit down

in a sense anyway. If they don't get something passed that lowers my monthly premiums for this shit they are calling a health plan at my job, I'm done. I'll walk away from this damn office and not look back.

When I paid the house off back in 03 I realized not having a mortgage hanging over my head gave me a bit of freedom I never had before, nobody can come kick us to the curb. One of the biggest reasons I've kept working, especially after my daughter was born in 06 is for health insurance. It keeps getting more expensive and covering less and less so I'm about to say fuck it.

I can go out and play guitar for around $400 a week or so and not have to put up with this hassle, and make some money off studio projects too. I really don't need this high pressure, low pay management gig if I can't even get decent healthcare for my family out of it.

If they can't get it together, fuck it, I'm done producing for a bunch of rich arrogant fucks that can't see fit to provide a minimum of decency in living standard in return for my effort :grr:

[swilton]

17. I envy your being able to play the guitar

I don't believe that the house or senate bills will be improvements because they offer no price controls on the insurance companies. Even though the insurance companies theoretically cannot deny pre existing conditions or procedures, they CAN make them so expensive that no one can afford them.

I feel for our children. I have a son who is beyond the age that I can cover him and has no full-time job. Corporate America owns all the businesses around here so they can pick and choose who they hire and can hire whomever they want for fewer hours than they are required to pay them benefits. My son has only been offered $7.50/hour and only is given less than five hours work per week.

The health care disaster is analogous to the disaster going on with the climate change treaty at the Copenhagen summit.

[guitar man]

20. It's not easy

But I can go entertain a few drunks with my band for a few hours for $75-$125 a night. Not much money but hell, I'm not making that much on my day gig and I've been with the company for 10 years.

We need price control badly. $500 a month in premiums on a $33700 salary just isn't cutting it. It doesn't leave enough paycheck to keep me motivated anymore. :(

[Vogon_Glory]

18. No, I Don't Intend to Lie Down

No, I don't intend to lie down. If health care reform fails this time around, I intend to do what I can to sack yet more Republicans so we can try again to enact genuine health care reforms in either 2011 or 2013.

[derby378]

21. I like the way you think, Phoebe

:hi:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

22. I will not accept the unacceptable as being the end of the road.

No way. Thanks for your support. We really need to stand together if we're ever going to get real reform.