Let's at least organize to get the mandates out of the bill.

[Cant trust em]

No public option = no mandates.

[OneGrassRoot]

1. I approve this message and would get behind this effort.

:)

[NightWatcher]

2. it doesnt matter what we want. It's what the corpo's want and they want to mandate customers

[earcandle]

3. How can we help?

[Skinner]

4. The mandates serve an important purpose.

If there are no mandates, then the young and healthy won't bother buying health insurance. The result: A sicker population of people covered by insurance, and higher premiums for everyone.

Instead of trying to get the mandates out of the bill, I think a better idea would be to increase subsidies for low-income Americans.

[grantcart]

14. 100% correct

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart/229

[Lyric]

18. And what if we mandate people to buy something

that the insurance companies refuse to sell them? They can't discriminate against sick people, but apparently they CAN discriminate against people who have bad credit scores, and medical problems are the #1 cause of financial strife in this nation.

We cannot mandate just ONE side. If there must be mandates, then the insurance companies need their own mandates--no discriminating against sick people OR people who have damaged credit related to a medical crisis (not all of which would be medical bills, but also other delinquent bills because of lost wages, time off, etc.)

If we fail to mandate fairly, we're leaving an enormous loophole there for the insurance companies to continue to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions by examining their credit records and rejecting them whenever they see unpaid medical bills, which tend to indicate health problems.

Mandates need to work both ways, or we are going to hurt the very people we're trying to help.

[Skinner]

20. I think you make a good point.

I was not aware that insurance companies would be permitted to discriminate in this way. If they were, it does seem inevitable that it could be used as a back-doorway to weed out the sick.

[Lyric]

21. They are already permitted to discriminate this way.

That's the situation as of right now, pre-reform. But the reform bill doesn't address this issue at all, and I really think I should. Someone else brought it to my attention this morning and I was absolutely astounded; I did some checking, and I can't find a single thing in the current proposed regulations that addresses this problem.

I intend to send e-mail to Senator Rockefeller and to the White House about this. It's a serious loophole, and it needs to be closed--otherwise we might well end up with a reform bill that still allows insurance companies to, for all practical purposes, discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions. And worse--if someone doesn't notice this problem soon and get it fixed, there might not be a relief provision in the mandate rules for situations like this either. People could potentially get in trouble for not buying something that the insurance companies refuse to sell to them.

I'm sure we can all agree that such an oversight would have some potentially nasty unintended consequences for both the people of this country and the Democratic party.

[TwilightGardener]

5. How would you ensure total coverage then?

You need everyone to sign up and pay in, especially the healthy, so that pre-existing-condition folks can get covered and costs are kept down. Otherwise, people might only enroll when they're sick--and premiums would be jacked up through the roof.

[liberal N proud]

6. I am still trying to figure out how they expect people to pay for the mandate

when they can't afford insurance now.

Squeezing blood from a turnip.

[TwilightGardener]

8. Subsidies, I thought.

[liberal N proud]

9. Subsidies that will be cut as soon as they are passed.

[TwilightGardener]

13. Boy, I'd hate to see what a GOP Congress and President do with those.

Hopefully people will scream like stuck pigs--the way they do now about Medicare and SS (which is why the GOP is so anxious to crush this reform altogether--there's no turning back once people start getting and LIKING some help and security).

[bluethruandthru]

16. This is the part I hate the most....

Subsidies going to the insurance companies!!

[TwilightGardener]

17. Especially if there's no controls in place to keep them from raising

premiums ON TOP of the subsidies, so that the average consumer soon ends up paying out-of-pocket what he or she is paying now.

[canoeist52]

7. The Mass. mandate is basically trying to force my 21 y/o. to buy

The Mass mandate is basically trying to force my 21 y/o. to buy
her company insurance that she can't afford to use (on part-time wages) because of the 2000 yearly deductible. It's not even catastrophic insurance as it is an 80/20 plan. This is extortion.

[liberal N proud]

10. Exactly, Mandates just worsen conditions for those who already can't afford health care.

[AllentownJake]

11. The bill was all about mandates from the beginning

I'm sorry some of you got fooled that the owners wanted to help you.

[rucky]

12. Without forcing insurers to compete...

mandates are the only thing that'll make their lame-brained plan work.

[Unvanguard]

15. Better to push for stronger subsidies. We need the mandate. n/t

[Kitsune]

19. They'll never come out. They were the whole point.

Everything else was a smokescreen for enabling the health insurance mafia to fuck the American citizen over even more than they already are. It was the entire purpose of the bill from day one, Democrats and Republicans both.

More giveaways for the people that fucked this country up, while the people who are just trying to survive get shit on. Change we can believe in. :/