Rape victims offer advice to today's college women

[Blue_Tires]

(CNN) -- If you are already in college or headed there, sit down. If you're the parent or friend of a student, listen up.

One in five college women will be raped, or experience an attempted rape, before graduation. Less than 5 percent will report these crimes to officials on or off campus, and, when they do, there's a good chance the system will let them down.

A handful of former students who spoke out and reported rapes at their schools told CNN they didn't feel protected by their universites. They were initially interviewed as part of an investigative series by the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based nonprofit that says it seeks to make institutions more transparent and accountable.

The women welcomed the chance to share their experiences and offer advice to students today.

"I was too young, still in too much shock and too emotionally gone to make decisions on my own," said a woman who, as a freshman, reported a rape in 2001. "I needed an adult I trusted. The school did not provide such a person."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/15/sexual.assaults.college.campuses/index.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

2. How long before all the usual suspects come and start declaring rape victims lying sluts?

:puke:

[seabeyond]

4. or rape number is down ergo all is good. regardless of FBI stating be wary of numbers

because too many rapes are not reported and count on local municipals to give them the numbers.

[JonQ]

20. If you're refering to the thread I think you are

it was a case where you declared that rapes were going up, a variety of posters pointed out that according to the data that was not true. At which point you said the numbers weren't perfect, ergo they were wrong in such a way that rapes were actually going up (older numbers were fine, current ones showing a decrease must have been falsified).

No one said "we have fewer rapes this year than last, so no worries".

[seabeyond]

21. you got a little bet right and a lot a bet wrong. nt

[JonQ]

47. Nah, I hit the nail on the head

you took quite a metaphorical beating on that thread.

[JonQ]

16. I seriously doubt anyone on here

has declared all rape victims to be "lying sluts".

But you really kicked the snot out of that strawman.

[Odin2005]

26. There is a significant number of DUers that belittle victims of acquaintance rape.

And a few think having sex with a passed out women isn't rape.

[JonQ]

46. I'm going to call BS on that one for the moment

you have to 1) define what a significant number means, would one guy count, or does it have to be a certain percentage of male DUers? 2) you'd have to actually dredge up the quotes where they say "having sex with a drunk/drugged woman who is unconscious is not rape and that lying slut deserved it", or something close.

You can't just accuse a large number of people of defending rape without proof.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. You can't just accuse a large number of people of defending rape without proof.

He can, and does regularly.

[Odin2005]

70. Says the guy who defended raping a passed out woman...

in the thread on the Movie "Observe and Report" a while back. That thread was proof enough.

[JonQ]

76. You really have to provide evidence of this

from your definition of "rape" he could very well have advocated asking a woman out on a date in order to convince her to have sex with him at some point in the future and you would have deemed that rape.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. It's from a fictional movie.

Wherein a woman on a drug binge passes in and out of consciousness while consenting to sex.

Odin thinks that's rape, regardless of the woman consenting.

[EOTE]

58. *crickets*

By that poster's definition of rape, I've been raped multiple times. What's even more shameful is that some of the times, I actually enjoyed it! I know a lot of people think they're being pro-feminist by expanding the definition of rape to such a ridiculous scope, but I'd imagine real victims of rape don't appreciate it very much.

[JonQ]

60. Yeah I'm not sure how one can be a feminist

and yet seek to redefine words to make women into victims, even when they have no interest in being one.

I think it's the white knight mentality. If he makes women in to victims then he can swoop in and save them (even if they don't want to be saved, and aren't victims at all, and of course all this occurs on the internet rather than real life).

[Odin2005]

71. See post 65.

[EOTE]

72. Post 65 does nothing to address the issues in JonQ's post..

Which, for your convenience, are:

"1) define what a significant number means, would one guy count, or does it have to be a certain percentage of male DUers? 2) you'd have to actually dredge up the quotes where they say "having sex with a drunk/drugged woman who is unconscious is not rape and that lying slut deserved it", or something close."

You made a reprehensible comment and so far have done nothing to distance yourself from it. Pointing to one of your posts where you address something else completely doesn't change that at all.

[paulsby]

17. the vast majority of rape victims

are telling the truth. iow, they were raped. a very significant percentage are lying.
that's just the facts. ask any criminal lawyer (prosecutor or defense)

the difference between a false report of burglary, etc. (which are also quite common, for insurance purposes) is that they rarely "finger" a perp. with rape reports a la duke, people's lives can be ruined. and frequently are.

what is sad is that some campus police dept's are woefully equipped/trained to investigate sexual assault.

that's bad.

also, fwiw, a lot of these stats need to be thoroughly looked at. i saw one study that claimed a very high %age of college rapes. the question they asked to determine if a person had been raped was "did you ever have sex when you didn't want to, or were convinced to have sex against your initial desire" - words to that effect. those skew the stats.

just like i've seen domestic violence pamphlets that define "domestic violence" to include "name calling", "insults", and "a partner that is overly intrusive into your whereabouts, etc." sorry, but that's not domestic violence.

that's called being a jerk.

regardless, rape is unfortunately all too common on college campuses. you have kids often away from home for the first time in their lives, you have the added influence of drugs and alcohol, and you have the feeling , especially amongst many teenage males, that they are "invincible" and the world is their oyster.

i had friend in college who was raped by some assmunch who hid in the closet in her dorm room and jumped out on her. he was never arrested, because she never reported it.

[Odin2005]

28. That isn't skewing stats.

"did you ever have sex when you didn't want to, or were convinced to have sex against your initial desire" IS rape. it may not be brutal "jumped on by a guy on the street" rape but it's still rape. No is no, and if you push it you are a rapist.

[dustbunnie]

29. If that's the case, then half the world's population, women included, need to be in prison. n/t

Those scenes are played out in peoples' bedrooms every night across the globe.

[Odin2005]

32. Your lame attempt at hyperbole is not amusing.

There seems to be a sick mindset that when a woman says "maybe" she means "yes, when she says "no" she means "maybe", and if she says "yes" she is a slut. That is BS. "Yes" means "Yes", "maybe" means "maybe", "no" means "No", and if you keep pushing it you are a rapist.

[dustbunnie]

35. Thank you and you know what? I'm a woman. I know how the scenes play out.

I know that it isn't always a question of "no" because that word isn't always used. There is such a thing as "maybe" especially when you're wondering if it's too soon, is your room mate home by now, will he leave or over stay in the morning, did you shave your legs... oh a whole bunch of stuff that can go through your mind while you're kissing and it's hot and heavy. Even though you start out the evening swearing to god you won't go home with someone, it doesn't always work out. And "Please, baby please, come on, it'll feel good, it's been so long" is another seduction tactic used by thousands of husbands every night. By your stupid logic, those guys should all be locked away.

On edit - not necessary to tell the world my personal business. Women who've been raped know what it entails.

[paulsby]

40. i agree. like i said, if that's the criteria for rape, then i've been raped

several times. sorry, but it's rubbish.

rape is a horrible crime. that's not rape. glad to see some people have common sense

[dustbunnie]

52. Yes, by that criteria we all have been, probably numerous times.

And guess I'm guilty of rape too then, although after 30 seconds you really couldn't tell. :)

[Odin2005]

66. See post 65.

I'm talking about pressure that would qualify as harassment. I don't think I was being clear enough.

[paulsby]

31. that's crap

sorry, but it doesn't meet the criminal standard of rape, and it grossly inflates and distorts.

fwiw, if i was to go by your metric, then i have been raped several times.

omg, i am such a victim

[Odin2005]

33. You were pressured to have sex with someone even if you didn't want to?

[paulsby]

34. yes. and in a few situations i went along with it

i was not raped. at least not in the criminal sense.

i've investigated SCORES of rapes. that does not meet the criminal definition of rape, and calling it rape diminishes the true crime.

so, if you think it's rape, do you think those persons who pressured me should be prosecuted?

[rd_kent]

74. Yes, I have. And so have many other men.

Have I been raped? I would say no, but by your definition I have. Should I call the police on my wife and have her arrested for raping me?


Your douche-baggery knows no limits.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. So if a womans intial desire changes and she desires to have sex and does then she has been raped?

[Odin2005]

43. No, if she is constantly pestered until she gives in then it is rape.

No is no.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. You keep acting as if people are saying no doesn't actually mean no. It's quite funny.

[TCJ70]

45. Doesn't rape imply some kind of force is used?

That force could be strength or some kind of drug. I don't think annoyance counts as a force.

[JonQ]

50. I think odin subscribes to the philosophy

that any heterosexual sex implies that the man is a rapist.

[lukasahero]

53. Fear is force

I don't agree that giving in when you don't want to is always rape but giving in because you're afraid is.

[TCJ70]

59. That's true...

...but that's not what Odin said.

[lukasahero]

62. That's why I never said it was

In fact, I distinctly said I didn't agree with that.

Are you interested in discussing force (you brought it up) or are you really just interested in picking at Odin?

[TCJ70]

64. Woah...

...I wasn't looking for a fight with you or anyone. I just disagree with what Odin said. Sorry for the misunderstanding! :)

I guess my definition of force extends to anything that overpowers someone's ability to make their own decisions, including, as you brought up, fear. Annoying someone into sex doesn't qualify under my definition...that's just kind of pitiful. Other people in this thread have summed it up better than I probably can and under Odin's definition we all have or will most likely will be raped at some point in our lives...yikes.

[Odin2005]

68. It's mostly what I meant, sorry that I wasn't clear enough. See post 65.

[Odin2005]

67. Yes, that is mostly what I meant.

:hi:

[wolfgangmo]

55. Partly true.

Rape imlies that force, or THE THREAT OF FORCE is used.

If a woman has a reasonable reason to beleive that force will be used, even if it isn't and she communicated that sex was a "no" then it is rape. If some linebacker forces a 100 pound woman into his dorm room and won't let her leave and then takes advantage, that would be rape, even if said assmunch doesn't use "force" per se.

[JonQ]

49. Wow

no wonder you think everyone defends rape. You have defined the crime in such a way that it is essentially meaningless.

If asking "can we have sex now please?" over and over until it works is rape to you then no doubt you will find a lot of people "defending rape".

But of course that definition is absurd.

Hey, what if you buy an otherwise somewhat reluctant girl flowers, or a nice dinner on the hopes that that will sway her decisions in your favor? Is that rape?

How about pretending to be interested in hearing about her cats so she will sleep with you?

[dustbunnie]

56. If she accepts the flowers or nice dinner, that obviously makes her a prostitute.

That's why I said up thread most of us need to be thrown in the clink. We're all either prostitutes or rapists.

I think people who haven't dated a lot, or ever been in very long term relationships, don't understand how wacky and zany romantic interactions between people can be.

But on a serious note though, espousing this over zealous, no tolerance, PC attitude can really screw up already confused young people, and this sometimes has tragic repercussions when peoples' lives are ruined as a result.

[Odin2005]

65. I talking about more blunt pressure that would qualify as harrassment.

Not run-of-the mill stuff.

[FreeJoe]

57. Wow...I really am a victim

I wasn't really in the mood and said no. She really wanted to do it, so I finally said OK. I had no idea that I was raped.

When I bought my last car, I wasn't really sure I wanted it. At first, I told the dealer no, but he wouldn't take no for an answer. He kept sweatening the deal and I finally said yes. I was robbed because he didn't accept no as an answer.

It's not my fault that I'm overweight. I always say no to desert, but someone always seems to encourage me to try it. I give in. I've been poisoned.

All this time I thought I had to ber personally responsible. Now I realize that only my initial reaction matters. It doesn't matter if I consent just because someone talked me into it. Finally, I'm free from guilt and can just blame everyone else for anything that I regret.

[Odin2005]

69. See post 65.

[Liquorice]

36. I call BS. A "significant" amount of women who report being raped are NOT lying. It is

very difficult to report a rape, and as such most rapes are unreported. The ones that are reported are usually genuine. It's exceedingly rare for a woman to report being raped when she wasn't. That's just commonsense.

[Jax]

38. Thank you, I agree

I take this one's posts here with a bigtime grain of salt. Always.

[Missy Vixen]

63. Thank you

I'm a bit more than skeptical about his claims to be pressured into sex by multiple women. Of course, this is IMHO and I'm happy to be told differently, but it's amazing there was sufficient room in the bed for anyone else with the poster's inflated ego already there.

That grain of salt is about the size of Cleveland right now.

[Withywindle]

75. I take a lot of what he said with a grain of salt too, but not this, particularly.

Doesn't it happen in pretty much every relationship at some point that one partner is really, really, REALLY in the mood for sex and the other just isn't?

And mightn't the horny partner beg and cajole just a bit? And mightn't the "headachy" partner give in eventually without it being OMGRAPE!? (And maybe wind up really enjoying it, maybe not)?

Either a man or woman can play either role in this scenario, and it certainly happens in same-gender relationships too.

I'm a woman who's done my share of cajoling, "seducing" and downright nagging. I'm not proud of it, but I don't think it makes me a rapist either. I've also done my share of giving in, and winding up having the time of my life! So I totally see what he's saying here as just kind of normal and obvious.

[rd_kent]

73. Project much?

[midnight]

3. Our schools are tools of the corporate world. Somehow adults of these students

need to adjust to that notion. The Corporate world has shut down the idea of rights. Hire a lawyer and make sure the lawyer puts everything in writing.... Don't mess around with the schools they will protect themselves only.

[corpseratemedia]

13. +1

my alma mater and one of the schools where i taught CYA

[Brickbat]

5. Hey men! Stop raping.

[Kitty Herder]

6. Rape prevention tips guaranteed to work:

This has made the rounds on the internets, but I don't think I've seen it here.


Sexual Assault Prevention Tips Guaranteed to Work!

1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.

2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!

3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!

4. NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.

5. If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON’T ASSAULT THEM!

6. Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

7. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.

8. Always be honest with people! Don’t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.

9. Don’t forget: you can’t have sex with someone unless they are awake!

10. Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone “on accident” you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.

[Liquorice]

7. LOL, that is strangely hilarious. nt

[TalkingDog]

10. I was in a conversation with a guy and suggested

the buddy system be enforced. If men wanted to go out after dark the would be required to be accompanied by an armed female that they did not know. He would not be allowed in dimly lit places, distant car parks, etc...by himself even in the day time.

He just about blew a gasket, sputtering about being punished just because he was a man.

I looked at him calmly and said welcome to my world. I can't do any of those things either, just because I'm a woman.

His jaw fell so far I could have pushed a pumpkin in his mouth. Then, good on him, he manned up and said: I guess you're right.

[ismnotwasm]

11. Beat me to it dammit

Rape is a huge and extremely serious men's issue. Perhaps the activists for Men's rights groups would care to address this?

A slightly different version of your list;

Sexual Assault Prevention Tips Guaranteed to Work

1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to assault her.

4. If you are in a lift and a woman gets in, don’t assault her. You know what? Don’t even ogle her.

5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not assault her.

6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars.

7. When you lurk in bushes and doorways with criminal intentions, always wear bright clothing, wave a flashlight, or play “Boys Who Rape (Should All Be Destroyed)” by the Raveonettes on a boombox really loud, so women in the vicinity will know where to aim their flamethrowers.

8. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from assaulting women, ask a trusted feminist friend to accompany you when in public.

9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to assault a woman, you can hand the whistle to your buddy, so s/he can blow it to call for help.

10. Give your buddy a revolver, so that when indifferent passers-by ignore the rape whistle, s/he can pistol-whip you.

Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her that you expect to be assaulting her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.
http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2009/12/06/i-got-yer-rape-prevention-email-forward-right-here/

[Kitty Herder]

39. That one's better.

Of course it is. Twisty wrote it. Or modified it.

Did you read the comments on that post at IBTP? Funny stuff.

[Odin2005]

14. DUZY!

[Kitty Herder]

41. No Duzy for me. I didn't create it.

I've seen it on several websites and blogs. I would have credited someone if I had any idea who to credit.

[Starry Messenger]

15. Wow.

So simple, yet so overlooked. :(

[Fleshdancer]

18. my thoughts exactly

It's disturbing that this is considered funny instead of being the obvious solution.

[Starry Messenger]

22. That too.

I was also taken aback by the fact that I'm so used to reading rape avoidance strategy tips written for women, it actually took me a few seconds to figure out who this was addressing. Scary.

[gaspee]

25. I love those

The answer to rape reduction is simple -- "Hey assholes! Stop raping women!"

Men like the control over women the threat of rape gives them. The only ones who can end rape are men. When are they going to do their part?

I get so sick of the emails that make the rounds on how women can "protect" themselves from rape -- and all of them involve curtailing women's liberty. How convenient for men, eh?

I prefer these tips for rape prevention.

[Nikki Stone1]

27. Well, that puts the blame back where it belongs.

Thank you.

[varelse]

30. This is awesome! (nt)

[Demoiselle]

37. This is wonderful. Thank you.

But then, how could it not be, coming from a Kitty Herder.
(I myself am a multiple cat servant.)

[Fleshdancer]

8. honestly, I think the issue of sexual violence needs to be addressed much earlier

I would like to see the issue raised in high school. Every year, schools educate students about the negative consequences of drugs, STD's and DUI's (remember the gross shock videos we were forced to watch before prom season?). Sexual violence is just as important.

[Demoiselle]

9. I'm shocked at the statistics.

One in five is a huge number. Has it always gone on and we're just really talking about now...or is this a new thing?
I wonder if coed dorms have anything to do with it...in terms of increasing access for predators.

[snooper2]

12. I am suprised about that number as well...

20%!

that's huge, like a really huge number..

Are there any links to the raw data?

[JonQ]

19. I'm skeptical

it's well established that rapes are underreported. So the 1/5 does not come from actual reports, but extrapolations from actual reports based on what they believe the the rate that slip through cracks happens to be.

This is a highly political and emotional issue so I'm somewhat suspect of the accuracy of these numbers. I saw one study that tried to lump anyone who said on a survey that they had felt "pressured to have sex" in with those who had actually been raped, and claimed them all as rape victims.

No doubt the rate, whatever it is, is too high. But I have serious doubts about the 1 in 5 number that is routinely thrown around.

[AngryAmish]

23. Lets look at some numbers

Approx number of German women in 1939 - about 41 million

According to Antony Beevor, about 2-2.2 million German women were raped by the Red Army. War crime on a vast scale.

It means about 5.4% of German women were raped in WWII.

A US college campus is almost 4x more dangerous than Germany after the fall.

Those are some interesting statistics.

[JonQ]

24. College is rough

Recent outbreaks of frightening statistics have occurred on 4 out of every 3 campuses.

[lukasahero]

54. "College is rough" for women. eom

[JonQ]

61. Yes apparently all of them are being raped, all the time

if we're to believe the current crop of statistics being thrown around, and a rather generous definition being used on this thread for rape.

[BlueIris]

51. A university protects its liability first. If you are the victim, go to a law enforcement

representative as far away from the school as jurisdiction will allow.

[Blue_Tires]

78. +1000