Those who mock the voices of despair heard here today...try something ELSE

[Ken Burch]

Try actually making a CASE for some positive reason for people not to give up on this party.

Try actually presenting a strategy to get us out of this.

Don't just say "you've got no place to go".

Our only chance to survive as a party is to REACH OUT to the angry and the disappointed, admit that their feelings are justified, and work WITH them to come up with something better.

Disrespecting people who are reacting justifiably to the current situation serves no purpose. And no one here is really entitled to do it.

We are ALL needed if we're to win in the future.

[saltpoint]

1. Unrec'd.

[Jamastiene]

2. The "you've got no place else to go" meme is getting really old.

Tell enough people that and piss us off enough and we might create somewhere to go. Be careful who you step on on your bid to get to the top, because you'll be seeing those same people on the way back down.

Something's gotta give.

[azurnoir]

9. Perhaps that is true however

creating somewhere else to go has some problems the vote recount debacle for the Minnesota senate seat was created in large part because Minnesota allows third party candidates and one of them a guy named Dean Barkley garnered close to half a million votes mostly drawn from those who would have otherwise voted for Franken, without him Franken would have won hands down in the first place

[LoZoccolo]

3. Maybe you should justify the VIOLENT THREATS made by splinterists. n/t

[Ken Burch]

4. I don't need to. I have nothing to do with any such threats

And will you please knock off the "I'm a Dem and nobody ELSE is" thing already? You're NOT entitled. You've done no more for the party than anybody else. And you've got no greater claim to loyalty than anybody else.

Nobody buys your Mayor Daley routine.

[saltpoint]

5. For those stomping out of the door in a huff, the question has been

posed -- Where ARE you going to go?

Seems like a pretty legitimate question to me.

Maybe the Green Party will run Cynthia McKinney again and maybe this time she'll win big. I could definitely see her sweeping all the blue states at the drop of a hat. She had enormous appeal last time. U.S. citizens flocked to her appearances and gave her their fierce, enthusiastic support.

Wait. I'm checking the 2008 vote totals here... O sorry. She didn't get hardly any votes at all out of the several million cast.

My mistake.

Ken, I am definitely not buying your victim spiel here.

[Ken Burch]

6. I'm not buying your arrogance spiel

You're not entitled to look down on anybody. And you've never been more Dem than everybody else.

[saltpoint]

7. I can't be too arrogant -- I own a Gene Autrey album!

Sorry, Ken. Your whole OP is Victim City.

[Ken Burch]

8. This thread is about thousands of DU'ers....it's not about ME.

I'm angry but I'm not going anywhere.

Nobody's ever bought you're "it's just the particular poster whining" strategy. DU knows that those on the left speak for as many as those like you do.

Nobody here has posted out of self-pity. The pain is for the people. Folks like you can't seem to get it that it is possible to think about someone besides yourself.

[saltpoint]

Untrue. It is your post. Own it.

And it's a whinefest.

That's why I unrec'd it.

It's exclusional and it's whiney.

[Ken Burch]

11. It's the opposite of exclusional to want the party to avoid driving people away

It's INCLUSIONAL.

No good can come from progressives being made unwelcome in this party again. No good came of it in the Nineties.

[saltpoint]

12. The reference to those stomping out in a huff.

Did you miss that part?

They're the ones leaving. I've been around awhile. I plan on staying awhile longer.

[Jim Sagle]

18. And your comments are snottier than a flu victim's nose.

[saltpoint]

19. I love it when you allude to body functions, Jim.

The OP smacks of Victimhood. You want a ride to the bus station I might give you one, but I'd rather you stick around and get something done where the real work is accomplished, and that would not be with the third party scenario.

That would be in the real world, which includes the 111th Congress.

Cynthia McKinney, as unabashed a hyper-progressive as they could possibly come, was slaughtered at the polls last November. Before someone stomps out of a political party, it does seem that they ought to have a destination.

Otherwise all they got is screeching.

[Ken Burch]

20. That's the longest post I've ever seen you write, Sagle.

n/t.

[roguevalley]

22. what makes you think they need to go anywhere? Sitting things out

is a possibility. Given the shit sandwich currently residing on our yes we can dinner plates, don't be surprised if it happens. And calling them out? Sad.

[saltpoint]

23. we've been pals on this site before, roguevalley.

I'm not the one shoving anybody out.

They leave, if they choose to, of their own volition. So your question has to be directed at them, not at those of us who wish to remain.

All good wishes.

[roguevalley]

24. agreed, saltpoint. good wishes back to you. Your point is taken.

[tmyers09]

29. Maybe it's because they made sure nobody knew who she was?

Ask any average person and they'd say "Who?". Guess what? IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY. Our media doesn't let any other parties get any coverage whatsoever. The establishment controls the message that gets put out. I guarantee you that if other candidates were included in debates, given bigger platforms and airtime, they would get a hell of a lot more votes. They almost made that mistake in 1992 with Ross Perot.

[Laelth]

10. Your advice is sound. Now watch it get ignored by the party apparatchiks. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[azurnoir]

13. I will make a case for something else

this is admittedly more in answer to the thread you ran last night, however what we the people have to do must do is put enormous pressure on politicians to END the influence of lobbies ALL of them good or bad it corrupts our entire governmental system basically ALL of our reps are taking bribes in one form or another

[Ken Burch]

21. You're right

n/t.

[Greyhound]

14. Nice try. Problem is that they got nothin'.

Repeating the cycle over and over ad infinitum...

They will eternally compromise with the GOP, but will never give an inch to us.:crazy:

[rucky]

15. Or at least pass around the Vaseline...

or whatever they're using to make this reaming enjoyable to them.

[Gman2]

16. Slongas they keep it here amongst friends.

[RoyGBiv]

17. Reaching out ...

I'll attempt a brief, reasoned reply.

Reaching out requires an open hand in return. Understanding your outrage and the way you express it requires you to understand someone else's and the way they do. That's not happening. I do not place blame on any particular side. (I think we have many "sides" here.) But fault is out there, and it rests with most of us.

We have seen many attempts at reasonable discourse from those with several kinds of perspectives on the issues that are facing us as a party, but currently those attempts are quickly being overwhelmed by a tumultuous chorus of, frankly, profane, childish nonsense if not ignored entirely. Intellectual dishonesty is rampant. The non-sequitur rules the day.

I understand how angry people are. I understand how angry *all* people are, not just those with a specific ideological bent or a particularly sacred issue. But anger does not justify the brutal and often dishonest rhetoric that seeks to do nothing but insult a person whom you do not know and may not understand. If I point out an error in your reasoning, particularly an error based on an objective fact, your anger does not justify a stream of denial, much less profane insults. We see a lot of that, from all sides of all issues and have for a long time, but lately, the amperage has gone way past eleven.

So, yes, I agree with your basic premise, but the "angry and disappointed" need to offer something too, to wit the possibility that the individuals attempting to reach out might just have the same goal in mind as they do, yet have a different opinion on the best way to get there. The group to whom you refer needs to understand that another group may be just as angry and disappointed, but may choose to express it differently. All individuals involved need to understand that "fuck you" never won an election, nor a cause, no matter how much justified anger or disappointment was behind it.

Venting is fine, but take it out on the people that really deserve it.

[hileeopnyn8d]

25. I think I love you!

That was a wonderful post.

[OneGrassRoot]

27. +1 :) n/t

[treestar]

26. I don't think we're talking about many people

A few posters on a message board. Who were not Dems to start with anyway.

And whose style indicates the Dems are better off without them.

[NJmaverick]

28. I pointed out all the lives the bill would save, but that only got a negative reception from the

despair crowd. Seems saving lives is no where near as important as getting one's way.