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Dr. Dean is wrong -- maybe because they don't have the filibuster in Vermont.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:29 AM
Original message
Dr. Dean is wrong -- maybe because they don't have the filibuster in Vermont.
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 09:41 AM by pnwmom
He's not used to working around it. Or maybe he's playing mind games with the Rethugs.

If this lousy Senate HCR bill passes -- in whatever form is necessary to get 60 votes -- the most important work is still ahead of us -- and that is in the conference committee that will work on "reconciling" the House and Senate versions of the bill.

The conference committee, by majority vote, decides how to compromise on the various differences in the bills. Then it issues a "report." This report is what is then voted on by the members of the House and the Senate. If they approve it -- by a MAJORITY VOTE -- then the bill goes to Obama to sign.

And there's no filibuster available to the Rethugs at that point. We will pass whatever we can pass with a simple majority.

So why wouldn't the House and the Senate members of the Conference Committee agree to put the public option back in -- and maybe even a strong public option -- whatever, that is, that a majority of the House and Senate would approve? To hell with the Liebermans!

If we can just get this ugly thing out of the Senate, I think the goal posts are about to be moved.

Here's some info on the procedure. And here's the key part, IMHO: "When the report is received, the question of proceeding to the consideration of the report, if raised, is immediately voted on without debate. The report is not subject to amendment in either body and must be accepted or rejected as an entirety."

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.bysec/final.action.html#conference

Conference Reports

When the conferees, by majority vote of each group, have reached complete agreement or find that they are able to agree with respect to some but not all separately numbered amendments, they make their recommendations in a report made in duplicate that must be signed by a majority of the conferees appointed by each body on each provision to which they are appointed. The minority of the managers have no authority to file a statement of minority views in connection with the conference report. The report is required to be printed in both Houses and must be accompanied by an explanatory statement prepared jointly by the conferees on the part of the House and the conferees on the part of the Senate. The statement must be sufficiently detailed and explicit to inform Congress of the effects of the report on the matters committed to conference.

In the Senate, the presentation of a conference report always is in order except when the Journal is being read, a point of order or motion to adjourn is pending, or while the Senate is voting or ascertaining the presence of a quorum. When the report is received, the question of proceeding to the consideration of the report, if raised, is immediately voted on without debate. The report is not subject to amendment in either body and must be accepted or rejected as an entirety. If the time for debate on the adoption of the report is limited, the time allotted must be equally divided between the majority and minority party. The Senate, acting first, prior to voting on agreeing to the report may by majority vote order it recommitted to the conferees. When the Senate agrees to the report, its managers are thereby discharged and it then delivers the original papers to the House with a message advising that body of its action.

A report that contains any recommendations which extend beyond the scope of differences between the two Houses is subject to a point of order in its entirety unless that point of order is waived in the House by unanimous consent, adoption of a rule reported from the Committee on Rules, or the suspension of the rules by a two-thirds vote. In the Senate, a report exceeding the scope of conference is likewise subject to a point of order.

It is not in order in the House to consider a conference report that differs in any way (other than clerical) from the text agreed to by the conferees, as recorded by their placement of their signatures (or not) on the sheets prepared to accompany the conference report and joint explanatory statement. Furthermore, as described earlier, it is not in order to consider a conference report unless the joint explanatory statement includes a list of congressional earmarks, limited tax benefits and limited tariff benefits in the conference report and joint explanatory statement, or a statement that the measure contains none of these items.

The presentation of a conference report in the House is in order at any time, except during a reading of the Journal or the conduct of a record vote, a vote by division, or a quorum call. The report is considered in the House and may not be sent to the Committee of the Whole on the suggestion that it contains matters ordinarily requiring consideration in that Committee. The report may not be received by the House if the required joint statement does not accompany it.

However, it is not in order to consider either: (1) a conference report; or (2) a motion to dispose of a Senate amendment reported in disagreement by a conference committee, until the third calendar day (excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays unless the House is in session on those days) after the report and accompanying statement have been filed in the House and made available to the Members in the Congressional Record. However, these provisions do not apply during the last six days of the session. It is also not in order to consider a conference report or a motion to dispose of a Senate amendment reported in disagreement unless copies of the report and accompanying statement, together with the text of the amendment, have been available to Members for at least two hours before their consideration. By contrast, it is always in order to call up for consideration a report from the Committee on Rules on the same day reported that proposes only to waive the availability requirements for a conference report or a Senate amendment reported in disagreement. The time allotted for debate on a conference report or motion is one hour, equally divided between the majority party and the minority party. However, if the majority and minority floor managers both support the conference report or motion, one-third of the debate time must be allotted to a Member who is opposed, if claimed. If the House does not agree to a conference report that the Senate has already agreed to, the report may not be recommitted to conference. In that situation, the Senate conferees are discharged when the Senate agrees to the report. The House may then request a new conference with the Senate and conferees must be reappointed.

(continued at link above)
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. It is my understanding that nothing can be added that is not already in one of the Bills.
When they reconcile the two bills (House and Senate) they can not add things that have not already been approved by one body or the other. If the Public Option is not already in either the house or the Senate Bill it can not be added at this time. I could be wrong about this but that is my understanding.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think you're right.
But the public option is in the House bill.

:dem:

-Laelth
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The public option IS in the House bill. It's been there all along. n/t
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Then why were they voting on the Dorgan amendment last night? nt
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. if this senate bill passes- we'll lose the house and senate in 2010.
just watch.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Why? If this Senate bill passes, the conference committee could still agree
on a bill much more like the House bill, and WITH a public option -- whatever could get 51 votes in the Senate, as opposed to 60.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. no...they can't.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Why? Because you said so? n/t
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. tell you what- let's wait and see. would you like to make a wager whether it happens or not...?
i'll bet any amount you wish.
put your money where your mouth is.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I see. You don't have any reason. n/t
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. common sense.
which you seem to be particularly lacking, as far as this subject is concerned.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. IIRC, once out of conference committee, the bill cannot be amended, but can be filibustered.
Which would be major suckage.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. But the conference committee CAN agree to report out a final compromise bill that differs
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 10:03 AM by pnwmom
significantly from the Senate Bill -- that is much closer to the House bill.

And that REPORT can't be filibustered.

From the link at the OP:

"When the report is received, the question of proceeding to the consideration of the report, if raised, is immediately voted on without debate. The report is not subject to amendment in either body and must be accepted or rejected as an entirety."
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yes, and it puts far more pressure on anyone who would filibuster
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 10:16 AM by Jersey Devil
If the conference report is made public and gains popular support before a final vote on it (which can be filibustered) then those like Lieberman will have to decide whether they want to be the ones who go down forever in history as the one(s) who stopped health care reform for a generation. I believe that is the reason for yesterday's statements by both Obama and Biden about health reform being dead for a "generation", so that they can start building the pressure up. Don't forget that if a filibuster is successful at that point then NOTHING will become law, even the weak Senate bill will be dead.

Right now Lieberman can say he is voting for health care reform if he votes for the weak Senate bill. But he can't say that if he filibusters or votes against the conference committee bill.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Lieberman doesn't give a fuck.
He's already extremely toxic, so voting no on the final cloture vote won't be difficult for him.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. How can the final vote be filibustered? A filibuster means they won't agree to
end debate. But the approval of the report is not subject to debate -- it is followed by a straight up and down vote.
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Don't think so - approval of the report and approval of the final bill are 2 different acts
The former is not subject to filibuster and the latter is.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. They can't filibuster the motion to proceed, but they can filibuster the actual debate on the report
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl30360.pdf

"Conference reports themselves, unlike measures on initial consideration, are not
subject to a double filibuster, because they are privileged matters, so that motions to
proceed to their consideration are not debatable. Inasmuch as conference reports
themselves are debatable, however, it may be found necessary to move for cloture on
a conference report."

Initial bills in the senate, before the conference report, can be filibustered in 2 ways - either at the initial motion to debate it at all, or once it's being debated. After the report, the motion to proceeed can't be filibustered, but the final debate still can.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I don't understand what that means, and how it fits with this:
"When the report is received, the question of proceeding to the consideration of the report, if raised, is immediately voted on without debate. The report is not subject to amendment in either body and must be accepted or rejected as an entirety."
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. It means they start the debate on the report at once
but the Republicans could string that debate out as long as they want. They can't alter what's in the report; but they can debate endlessly about whether or not to accept the whole thing. The Democrats would need a cloture vote to end the debate, which is what requires 60 votes.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks, muriel. n/t
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