More WTF, Obama: Obama considering setting up commission to

[cali]

study cutting entitlements.

CNN Exclusive: Obama weighs ordering new debt commission
Posted: December 15th, 2009 06:39 PM ET

From CNN Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry
The Obama administration is considering ordering a debt commission after Sens. Gregg and Conrad proposed a similar move last week.

Washington (CNN) - CNN has learned President Obama is seriously considering an executive order to create a bipartisan commission that could weigh sweeping tax increases and spending cuts to popular programs like Social Security and Medicare in order to try slash the soaring federal deficit.

Documents obtained by CNN show that top advisers to the President have been privately weighing various versions of a commission and there are differing opinions about how to structure it. Officials say that some inside the administration are pushing for a narrow mandate because it's too complicated to tackle reform of the tax system and various popular federal spending programs all at once.

"Each major category of fiscal policy - Social Security, Medicare, discretionary spending, revenues - raises a complex and idiosyncratic array of policy problems and prescriptions," according to the documents detailing some of the administration's deliberations. "Achieving consensus on any one of these issues - much less all of them simultaneously - may be more than the political system can reasonably accommodate."

But officials told CNN that other advisers to the president are pushing for the commission to have a broad mandate to put all of these big issues "on the table" at the same time.


<snip>

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/15/cnn-exclusive-obama-weighs-ordering-new-debt-commission/

I won't say what I'm thinking about Obama right now.

[MNDemNY]

1. No surprise for me.

[rucky]

2. I thought SS & Medicare weren't part of the discretionary budget.

What do entitlements have to do with the deficit?

[TheWraith]

3. Perhaps if you put some actual reading comprehension into it...

Obama is considering a commission which would think about maybe someday the possibility of cutting SS or Medicare as one REMOTE possibility among hundreds to address the national debt, and you read it as "Obama plans to cut Medicare!!!!11"

[mmonk]

6. Commissions are first steps.

[Frosty1]

29. So do you think Bill Gates needs SS and Medicare?

I wouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.:shrug:

[Cleita]

38. It doesn't matter whether they need it or not. They pay into the system and should

be able to partake in it. This is why these systems work so well. The risk is spread and everyone receives the benefits. To start means testing these programs will turn them into programs that don't work so well like Medicaid and welfare. I could see getting private corporations out of these programs that are busting them. Medicare is going broke because of Medicare Advantage programs, and Medicare Part D that the private sector, the corporate health insurers and big PhRMA are siphoning funds off of. Conservative privatization advocates don't like to tell you that. Get rid of them and it fixes what's wrong with these programs. You can still let Bill Gates get his SS although I doubt if he takes it. If he does, he probably does what a lot of rich people do and that is give it to charity or needier relatives.

[cali]

7. YOU, honey, are the one who lacks reading comprehension

I did NOT say Obama plans to cut Medicare. duh.

[OneGrassRoot]

8. But that's the headline that will be used to keep scaring seniors....

I'm sure I'll be getting a right-wing email any moment. And, unfortunately, I can't defend their accusations nearly as much now as I could a month ago. The details coming out are indeed scarier than I would have imagined possible.

I know, I know...it's not a done deal. I'm hoping for some miracles and major unexpected shake-ups -- to the benefit of the citizens -- before it's all said and done.

[chill_wind]

30. The pernicious Propaganda Parade has already started:

Parade Magazine in November

Scaring older people

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x497352

[Romulox]

42. Translation: he's going to cut SS for young people, not *important* people like you and I! nt

[Cetacea]

4. Hmmm. As expected. I knew that would be next.

[hayu_lol]

5. Cuts in SS and Medicare would be a disaster...

includes SS disability as well. People living currently at about $12,000/year are not going to survive at lowered rates.

Medicare falls way short of actual expenses--cuts here would insure the early deaths of many people.

[Odin2005]

57. I get SSI. I am so screwed if that gets cut.

[chill_wind]

9. Starting to feel like one big long very bad dream :-(

[kirby]

10. SS and Medicare are going bankrupt...

Each President has ignored the problem and each year that goes by it gets exponentially harder to fix.

I support that he is going to look at it. The status quo is unsustainable.

[joeybee12]

11. No, they're not...both have at least 20 more years of solvency...

...it's the high cost of healthcare that is creating the deficit, so let's do nothing about that.

[kirby]

25. 20 years is not very long...

So what about all the people who will be retiring just as the system goes bankrupt?

Your response is short term thinking that highlights why a commission is needed. People think 'its 20 years from now'. Its kinda like how so little has been done on climate change because the disaster will be 'later'.

I do agree that health care is a huge factor though.

But part of this issue is simply the demographics - the population is aging. We are going from a country with 3 workers per retiree to 2 workers per retiree.

[Cetacea]

12. That happens when they keep dipping into the fund.

[still_one]

18. It is only because of the baby boomers. It is supposed to normalize after that is over

In addition, the amount of military spending and unnecessary wars, especially hiring contractors/mercenaries to do our bidding isn't cheap

[closeupready]

26. Bzzzt. The Congressional Budget Office says it will be fully solvent into 2048.

n/t

[kirby]

33. Link please

Which program - SS?

The CBO report I have seen says 2019 it pays out more than it receives. 2030 it runs out of money from the mythical trust fund.

According to CBO’s projections, the 1940s cohort, for example, is virtually certain to receive all of its scheduled first-year benefit. The 1990s cohort has only a 32 percent chance of receiving all of its scheduled first-year benefit but an 84 percent chance of receiving at least 70 percent of that benefit.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9649/08-20-SocialSecurityUpdate.pdf

Medicare is even worse.

[closeupready]

34. Here you go:

>>Payable benefits will equal scheduled benefits until the trust funds are exhausted (see Figure 2 on page 10); thereafter, they will equal the Social Security program’s revenues. In 2049—CBO’s projected date for the trust funds’ exhaustion—revenues will equal only 84 percent of scheduled outlays. Thus, payable benefits will be 16 percent lower than scheduled benefits. Beginning in about 2070, the gap between scheduled and payable benefits will begin to grow, and by 2082, CBO projects, payable benefits will be 19 percent less than scheduled benefits.<<

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9649/08-20-SocialSecurityUpdate.pdf

I was wrong, but so are you - it runs out of money almost 20 years after the year you claim. And that's even if their assumptions are correct. And even if THAT is correct, there will still be money for paying benefits, but reduced by 16% - and that's if we don't eliminate the income cap, and if we did that, it would be solvent for much longer.

[kirby]

40. A little confusing...

Look at Figure 1, that shows outlays versus revenues. At 2019, the line crosses. At that point, it starts dipping into the trust fund, which we all know is not really there. The date it depletes the trust fund is estimated around 2049. At you say this is based on estimates of many variables that are hard to predict.

However, the SS problem is insignificant compared to Medicare/Medicaid. And the health bill it appears we might get will not help.

[closeupready]

43. Either the trust fund is there or it isn't. If you think it isn't, then your entire argument is moot

Which makes me question what your real point is here?

[kirby]

48. My point...

My original point is that it is a serious issue that needs working on because each administration knows there is an issue, yet each has not had the cohones to address them. If adjustments need to be made, the longer we wait, the bigger the pain (either in higher taxes, cut benefits, or increased benefit age).

[tammywammy]

39. Sweet, just in time for my retirement! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

49. And using hundreds of billions from Medicare to fund HC reform will ...

do what to Medicare??? Still do not understand that one.

Medicare is the big problem, but I do not hear the WH pushing to negotiate Medicare drug prices.

[earth mom]

65. Bullshit. Social Security is NOT broken. The powers that be are fucking it up on purpose. nt

[Lorien]

13. Care about the deficit? Get us the f*ck out of the Middle East!!

And start the "green jobs revolution" we were promised HERE.

[bluestateguy]

14. Bipartisan commissions never do anything

They push paper for several months (the usual suspects, you know, Vernon Jordan, Lee Hamilton, Gary Hart, James Baker, etc.) then amid much fanfare produce:

TA DA!

A REPORT!

Now of course since the commission has no power and Congress has to pass any policy recommendations they make, the commission's carefully crafted report is then summarily thrown in the trash can, though an extra copy is always sent to the Library of Congress to help them with their dust problem.

And of course, another anonymously sourced BS "story" from some hot shot, blow dried CNN personality (with the tousled hair and all, I'm sure) about what Obama is allegedly thinking about maybe possibly considering planning to do. And there are no sources man enough to go on the record.

[Cetacea]

17. It's not overblown. Obama mentioned this often during the campaign.

[placton]

45. you are so right bluedude!

I am retired, and would love some of those commission gigs!

[still_one]

15. I got an idea Obama, how about getting us out of Afghanistan NOW. Think how much that would save

[WilliamPitt]

16. He's been talking about doing this since the campaign

Shouldn't come as a surprise.

[TwilightGardener]

19. I do think Medicare and SS need to be studied, unless

there isn't as big a disparity between the baby-boomer population and younger generations as I had thought. I can't argue with studies and commissions--turning a blind eye won't solve anything.

[TankLV]

20. Why am I no longer surprised?

"Change" we can belive in...
















yea...

[Cetacea]

21. It will be his "Clinton moment' to appease the right. (Welfare Reform)

[peace frog]

32. How did that appeasement work out for Clinton?

Expect the same response for Obama's appeasement attempt.

Obama = appeasement and capitulation for the Right, scorn and abuse for the Left.

[99 Percent Sure]

47. Let's see. . .Ratcheting up Afghanistan-I know, he promised this so we shouldn't be upset or

disappointed-but it's a Clinton moment.

Keeping Gates, courting Gregg, worshipping at the feet of Snowe for her support of insurance reform HCR, re-signing the Patriot Act, FISA, bailing out big banks/big business but not the people he promised, promised he'd work for. Summers, Geithner, listening to McChyrstal the big ol' prevaricator.

Ignoring the will of the people on single payer and/or public option in order to pass a health care reform bill just for the sake of it. Lack of real commitment to jobs creation when drafting the Recovery Act.

Continued plaintive cries/importuning for bipartisanship while constantly getting publicly flogged and slapped in the face by those he wishes to bipartisan with. . . .

Yes, he's had more "Clinton moments" in a little less than a year than Clinton had in 8 years. In fact, I've been saying this since his campaign: He's much more right-leaning than Billy Jeff ever was, and his love for repugs is scary. He's no more liberal/progressive than his distant cousin, Darth Cheney.

I know, I know. Better him than McCain't because the president's a Democrat and since he hasn't concealed his pro-war bent, since he was never for single-payer/public option/whatever, and since he's said more than a couple of times that he was going to--we must--look at cutting entitlements, we shouldn't be upset or angry or disappointed because he's keeping his word.

What.ever.

[MH1]

22. Good on him - it's about time someone faced reality.

I prefer mostly tax increases (like raising the FICA cap) but there are some benefit adjustments that might make sense, too. Like raising retirement age coupled with some expansion of early waivers or some such (to account for physically wearing careers vs. relatively easy careers).

[Mari333]

23. more war!! more war!! we have oodles of monies for war and mercenaries!

the elderly can go f themselves it seems.
great timing, obama..as if your poll numbers werent low enough.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

of course, we know who your biggest contributors are.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. Well, he has to find a way to pay off the Pentagon and the bankers.

[chill_wind]

27. Dean Baker called it bizarre last February-- he's been watching ever since.

Dean Baker: Obama to Appoint Social Security Task Force
Feb 14th, 2009

Dean Baker is the Co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, and he shares some interesting information with us:

Word has it that President Obama intends to appoint a task force the week after next which will be charged with “reforming” Social Security. According to inside gossip, the task force will be led entirely by economists who were not able to see the $8 trillion housing bubble, the collapse of which is giving the country its sharpest downturn since the Great Depression.

This effort is bizarre for several reasons. First, the economy is sinking rapidly. While President Obama’s stimulus package is a good first step towards counteracting the decline, there is probably not a single economist in the country who believes that is adequate to the task. President Obama would be advised to focus his attention on getting the economy back in order instead of attacking the country’s most important social program.

The second reason why this task force is strange is that Social Security doesn’t need reforming. According to the Congressional Budget Office, it can pay all scheduled benefits for the next 40 years with no changes whatsoever.

The third reason that this effort is pernicious is that this talk of reform is occurring with the baby boomers just as the cusp of retirement. Due to the reckless policies of the Rubin-Greenspan-Bush clique, this cohort has just seen their housing equity wiped out with the collapse of the housing bubble. Tens of millions of baby boomers who might have felt reasonably secure three years ago are now approaching retirement with little or no equity in their homes.

(...)

more:


http://susiemadrak.com/2009/02/14/14/11/dean-baker-obama-to-appoint-social-security-task-force/

[ipaint]

28. Obama's Reagan moment

"Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid. The pitch sounds preposterous to millions of ordinary working people anxious about their economic security and worried about their retirement years. But an impressive armada is lined up to push the idea--Washington's leading think tanks, the prestige media, tax-exempt foundations, skillful propagandists posing as economic experts and a self-righteous billionaire spending his fortune to save the nation from the elderly.

These players are promoting a tricky way to whack Social Security benefits, but to do it behind closed doors so the public cannot see what's happening or figure out which politicians to blame. The essential transaction would amount to misappropriating the trillions in Social Security taxes that workers have paid to finance their retirement benefits. This swindle is portrayed as "fiscal reform." In fact, it's the political equivalent of bait-and-switch fraud.

To understand the mechanics of this attempted swindle, you have to roll back twenty-five years, to the time the game of bait and switch began, under Ronald Reagan. The Gipper's great legislative victory in 1981--enacting massive tax cuts for corporations and upper-income ranks--launched the era of swollen federal budget deficits. But their economic impact was offset by the huge tax increase that Congress imposed on working people in 1983: the payroll tax rate supporting Social Security--the weekly FICA deduction--was raised substantially, supposedly to create a nest egg for when the baby boom generation reached retirement age. A blue-ribbon commission chaired by Alan Greenspan worked out the terms, then both parties signed on. Since there was no partisan fight, the press portrayed the massive tax increase as a noncontroversial "good government" reform.

Ever since, working Americans have paid higher taxes on their labor wages--12.4 percent, split between employees and employers. As a result, the Social Security system has accumulated a vast surplus--now around $2.5 trillion and growing. This is the money pot the establishment wants to grab, claiming the government can no longer afford to keep the promise it made to workers twenty-five years ago."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090302/greider



Obama campaigning-

Obama advocates removing the current cap on Social Security payroll taxes, which exempts all income above the first $102,000 each person earns. Obama argues that the system favors wealthy people, who should be paying a fair share to support Social Security, but he acknowledges a compromise may be needed to protect middle-class workers whose incomes are slightly higher than the current cap.

During the Democratic debate at Drexel University in October 2007, Obama said: "Social Security is not in crisis; it is a fundamentally sound system, but it does have a problem, long-term. We've got 78 million baby boomers, who are going to be retiring over the next couple of decades. That means more retirees, fewer workers to support those retirees. We are going to have to do something about it. The best idea is to lift the cap on the payroll tax, potentially exempting middle-class folks, but making sure that the wealthy are paying more of their fair share, a little bit more."

http://seniorliving.about.com/od/presidentialcampaign2008/a/obama_mccain-tc.htm


Now we need a "bipartisan" commission to look at the problem of entitlements a la reagan.

[Renew Deal]

31. What's wrong with this?

They aren't saying they're going to cut anything specific. They want to look at how the system operates and look at opportunities. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd say it's another promise kept by Obama. He said he'd go through the budget "line by line."

"And, absolutely, we need earmark reform. And when I'm president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/512/go-line-line-over-earmarks-make-sure-money-being-s/

[Ganja Ninja]

35. Be afraid!

I smell another double cross coming.

[JVS]

36. Booooooo

[asdjrocky]

37. There is virtually nothing left to be surprised by.

I take that back.

[QC]

Only Nixon could go to China...

and only a Democrat can corporatize public education, gut the New Deal and Great Society, expand the neocon wars, etc.

[jonnyblitz]

44. I remember this theory mentioned when Clinton did welfare

reform. It makes sense to me.

[QC]

46. I remember it, too. The goopers had wanted "free trade" and "welfare reform" for years

but couldn't do it on their own.

Luckily for them, a very smooth-talking "New Democrat" showed up just in time and did it for them.

They should have been more grateful to him, but nobody ever said they were gentlemen.

[Romulox]

41. Ut-oh. It's finally *the OP's* ox that's been gored. Time to get mad!

:silly:

[Mithreal]

50. This is not the first warning. It's his advisors and his own malfunction.

I beg anyone who considers themselves a diehard or weaker supporter to get them to stop talking about cutting entitlements immediately.

[sendero]

51. Most Democrats don't want to hear it.

.... but entitlements will have to be cut. It is simple math and if you don't understand why then do a modicum of research.

Yes, we can raise the SS deduction ceiling and raise the retirement age and do a few other tweaks here and there that will help. What we cannot do is compensate for the birth rate.

[Mithreal]

54. Ridiculous tripe

SS funds were put in the general fund. Those need to be paid back. People who make over around 100k stop paying SS taxes, and that cap should be removed. That fixes the problem, thank you very much.

[sendero]

58. Paid back?

... paid back with what? those funds are GONE, there IS NO MONEY only the promise to TAX WORKERS in the future.

This works fine where there are 5 workers for each retiree, it does not and can not and will not work when there are 3.

I'm tired of explaining this to people who clearly are not too bright. SS will be cut, you can FUCKING COUNT ON IT.

[Mithreal]

61. pathetic excuse, right back at you

[sendero]

63. Excuse..

... reality that is apparently over your head.

SS will be cut. Count on it or pay the price.

[Mithreal]

67. rightwinger mantra

[TexasObserver]

52. I'm having Manchurian Candidate flashbacks.

The sequel, not the original.

We did win, right?

[Tailormyst]

53. Unbelievable

The news gets worse everyday. I am kicking myself for ever allowing myself to hope in regards to a politician. I know better. I foolishly let myself think this time was different.

[varelse]

55. I'll say it

Goodbye majority in 2010

Goodbye Presidency in 2012

[Odin2005]

56. You're dead to me, Mr. President. I get SSI and you will take it from my cold, dead hands.

This is outrageous.

[Forkboy]

59. Careful what you wish for. That may be just how they get it.

[David Zephyr]

60. "Merry Christmas Americans. You must suffer more."

Someone's got to pay for the party Obama gave Wall Street and the Defense Contractors.

And someone's got to pay for the giveaway to the Insurance Cartel.

And it's going to be the poor and working class.

A "commission". How tidy.

[Laelth]

62. You have got to be kidding. It's Clinton redux.

I don't need to be pushed too much more, and I'll be right out of this party.

:dem:

-Laelth

[G_j]

64. Hey!!!! end the freakin' war!!!!!

nt

[and-justice-for-all]

66. End the damn middle east occupations and

close bases over seas....then those social services cuts will not be necessary!