So...Jesus was illegitimate?

[trof]

So sayeth sage Chuck Norris:

What if Mother Mary had Obamacare?
Lastly, as we sit on the eve of another Christmas, I wonder: What would have happened if Mother Mary were covered by Obamacare? What if that young, poor uninsured teenaged woman were provided the federal funds (via Obamacare) and facilities (via Planned Parenthood, etc.) to avoid the ridicule, ostracizing, persecution and possible stoning because of her out-of-wedlock pregnancy? Will Obamacare morph into Herodcare for the unborn?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=118905

Ol' Chuckie may have opened a colossal can of worms if the fundies and true believers get aholt of this.

Merry Christmas, y'all.
;-)

[dustbunnie]

1. The Lord is perfectly okay with abortion. He performs thousands himself, every day. n/t

[spanone]

2. too many steroids, chuckie, too many steroids

[lapfog_1]

3. Now why would Chuckie diss ol' Mary like that.

I mean, she was visited by angels and shit BEFORE god came down and put his seed in her.

Or is he implying that she was making up that story because of the shame of being knocked up before marriage? And that Jesus really WASN'T the son of God.

Can't have it both ways fundies.

[Fire1]

4. No, Jesus was not illegitimate. It's called "immaculate

conception."

[FarCenter]

8. "Immaculate conception" refers to the conception of Mary

Who was therefore born free from "original sin" and thus a fit vessel to bear the Son of God. Gotta keep those myths straight.

[RobinA]

17. This Never Made Sense

The "Immaculate conception of Mary " thing never made sense to me at all...oh, wait. It always made less sense than usual to me. Why is it even necessary to this fable. And everybody gets it wrong anyway. Maybe because I went to a Presbyterian church when I was growing up, and quite a liberal one at that, some of these details passed me by. We weren't real big on Mary to begin with, or original sin, for that matter. Our minister focused more on being nice to others.

[Fire1]

22. A fable to one is fact to another. I don't see how intelligent

beings can get something so simple so wrong. Perhaps I give them more credit than they deserve.

[CBGLuthier]

43. so she would not soil god's penis, she had to be special.

I used to be picky about women too so I can sympathize. :-)

[Fire1]

21. No shit sherlock! It is because of the immaculate conception

of Mary that Jesus is not illegitimate. Sorry, I thought that was self explanatory.

[JVS]

9. Immaculate conception refers to Mary not inheriting original sin.

[Fire1]

23. Who said it refers to original sin?? n/t

[JVS]

27. Pius IX, although the first person to say that it is about original sin is a detail lost to the ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

[Fire1]

28. Ok. you mean, "WITHOUT" original sin, thus immaculate.

[JVS]

29. Yeah, thus "not inheriting"

[Arugula Latte]

45. Long story short :

It's all a crock of shit.

[rurallib]

5. I forget - which came first? The pregnancy or the marriage? I forget.

Either way, Mary crossed fundie beliefs. She was either knocked up as an unmarried woman or she was fucking around on the side.
And another thought - obviously Jesus didn't look a think like his stepfather, Joe, but why didn't he look half like his Father? Like maybe half visible, half invisible?

[Sanity Claws]

7. The pregnancy came first

Gabriel announced the pregnancy to Mary and she said, "I know not man." This meant she was a virgin, not married. Also, I remember vaguely that an angel told Joseph to go ahead with the marriage even though Mary was pregnant.

As for reason reaching fundies, forget about it.

[pipi_k]

54. Holy cow...more twists and turns than an episode of "Jerry Springer"

I think God should have asked for a DNA test. You never know what goes on in those community bathtubs or what's floating around in them.

[Turbineguy]

6. Luckily, Mary and Joseph lived in a Republican Paradise:

No Room at the Inn.

[Brother Buzz]

10. Pontius Pilate needs to produce a copy of the 'long-form' live birth certificate

It should have signature of the three wise men, Joseph and Mary, and God, so we can sort this mess out once and for all.

[FarCenter]

37. Didn't the shepards get there before the wise men?

They should certainly have their signatures on the long form birth certificate, if only as "X"s witnessed by the wise men.

[Brother Buzz]

39. Did the shepards bear gifts?

Who gave baby Jesus 'Rosebud'?

[izzybeans]

11. Me thinks one of the wise men has some 'splainin to do.

[RobinA]

18. I Thought

the wise men were from Orient Are. Inscrutable, ya know. They were across the desert during the whole conception fiasco.

[izzybeans]

47. I don't know with the trade routes and things, I'd travel that far to

see if the baby was mine or not.

[treestar]

12. I've heard that from right wingers

The assumption that all out of wedlock pregnancies are motives for abortion. One said Obama should be against it, because his mother was pregnant before she got married. Seemed in the good old days of 1961 that forced the Obama's to get married. It never occurs to the right winger that Anne might have had the child anyway. IOW, the right winger never realizes that an unwed mother still might want to keep her child.

[SidDithers]

13. No. Jesus was imaginary...nt

Sid

[mr blur]

15. Exactly (nt)

[Romulox]

20. This is simply incorrect. He was a historical person (though his real name was not Jesus)

:hi:

[librechik]

33. The Romans, famous for their meticulous bookkeeping, have no record of Pontius Pilate

Jesus, or any order to travel to Bethlehem to pay taxes. There was no vast killing of infants by Herod o(a historical figure well-documented by historians of the time.)There are many many records still available of the time. The only thing close is a record of a guy named Judas who rented a "field of blood" for a community party a few days around Easter Time in the year 20 or so. The "field of blood" reference is to an empty lot full of Amanita Muscaria mushrooms. "Jesus" is the word they used for the slime that covered the head of the mushrooms used as a sacrament in the Essene cult that supposedly Jesus belonged to (no record there either, though there should have been.)

More folks should actually read the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls as written by John Allegro. It clears up a lot of misconceptions, so to speak.



By the way, what is your historical evidence of the existence of Jesus the Christ? I would like to see that.

[FarCenter]

38. There is a stone with part of Pontius Pilate's name in the inscription

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_Stone

However, biblical archaeology is more political and less reliable than most scientific endeavors, say global climate projections.

About Jesus, you are right -- no historical evidence, nada.

[librechik]

49. thanks for the link--interesting n/t

[Romulox]

41. Jesus is referenced by several non-christian sources...

Your claim as to Pilate is a new one to me. Care to document it in any way?

As to your question, here's a bit of information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

[librechik]

50. sorry, can't document no evidence. thanks for the link

Again, I suggest everybody read Allegro. He's the best.

[Romulox]

51. That's simply not true. You may be thinking of "can't prove a negative"

But if, for example, you claimed that, say, George Washington never existed, despite a consensus to the contrary, you'd be expected to provide some documentation of this theory, if only a link to a historian who explains his theory as to why this is so.

That's perfectly possible. What's not possible is conclusively proving a negative via deductive logic.

[librechik]

52. I'm sorry--I gave you a link--to the man who translated the Dead Sea Scrolls

John Allegro--
http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Mushroom-Cross-Christianity-fertility/dp/0982556276/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260990864&sr=8-1

he begins his proof by looking for evidence of the historical Jesus. he comes up negative. Then goes into the text of the scrolls.

Really, if you are interested in the subject you mustn't miss Allegro, no matter what your opinions might be.

[Romulox]

53. The post upthread contained no link.

"Really, if you are interested in the subject you mustn't miss Allegro, no matter what your opinions might be."

Thanks for the recommendation. I may add it to my reading list.

[librechik]

55. by golly you're right, just put up the Amazon pic

too late to edit, tho

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. Yeah, but there aren't any contemporary accounts.

So they're not really evidence of anything.

[Romulox]

42. Here's some evidence of Pilate, btw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate

:hi:

[librechik]

48. thanks for that--interesting if it can be established as from the era

still no Jesus proof. And that rock is the ONLY thing next to the scriptures, which I have to put aside as evidential.

[Orsino]

14. That which you do to the least of these... n/t

[Jello Biafra]

16. This is a perfect example of what happens...

when you take one too many kicks to the head. :-)

Time to hang it up Chuckles....

[dysfunctional press]

19. it would have been HER choice...not herod's.

btw, upchuck- abortions don't have to be legal for a woman to decide to terminate her pregnancy, so it's a moot point.

but- if mother mary DID have 'obamacare'- maybe YOUR fucking saviour would have been born in a hospital instead of a barn.

[Winterblues]

24. Exactly what care did Joseph and Mary receive anyway?

The same kind of care Republicans wish for America in general it would appear..

[LibertyLover]

25. If Chuck Norris thinks that there was no abortion or birth control

in the ancient world or that they were not effective, then he needs to read one of these: Contraception and Abortion from the Ancient World to the Renaissance or Eve's Herbs: A History of Contraception and Abortion in the West, both by John Riddle, or Abortion in the Ancient World by Konstantinos Kapparis. Those would open his eyes. These would really disturb him: Holy Abortion? or Abortion and the Early Church both by Michael Gorman. Gosh, whatta maroon.

[montanto]

26. Jesus's father is also the father of Jesus's mother

which you'd think would cause the bigger stink. I'm not sure how any health care system can hope to deal with transcendental incest. Just hope it doesn't happen again is all.

[librechik]

30. yup--no birth certificate either!

[DefenseLawyer]

31. Jesus was the Sun

Just like Horus and literally hundreds of other saviors. But, as sun gods go, he was pretty cool.

[cmkramer]

32. He doesn't know what he's talking about

When Jesus was born, Mary was married to Joseph. Thus, he was not "illegitimate".

[Obamanaut]

34. Even then, 'abstinence' didn't work. nt

[Javaman]

35. I posted this a while back...

it got deleted but I saved in time. :)

:evil:

Joseph the absentee father...
Posted by Javaman in General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007)
Thu Dec 21st 2006, 03:43 PM
2 years after the birth of jesus...

Things in the Christ household aren't all beer and skittles...

Joseph: I'm going out...

Mary: what? That's the third time this week?

Joseph: well, did you ever think that I'm a little under appreciated around here? It's jesus this and jesus that...

Mary: Joe, he's a 2 year old, he needs a lot of attention.

Joseph: you know perfectly well, that's not what I'm talking about.

Mary rolls her eyes.

Mary: not this again?

Joseph: damn straight, if you hadn't talked me out of telling your parents about that wild night in down at the shore that summer 2 years and nine months ago, none of this would have been an issue!

Mary: are you kidding???? and get stoned to death?

Joseph: I told you I would marry you then...

Mary: yeah right, "mr. I have to go dwarf bowling with my buddies"...

Joseph: you always have to bring that up, don't you?

Mary: it's true.

Joseph: True? what do you know about the truth? Immaculate conception? Bahahaha! that's rich! Prior to meeting me, there was nothing immaculate about you!

Mary: what the hell do you mean by that?

Joseph: they didn't call you the "ceiling rafter counter" for nothing!

Mary: Get out! Get out! I never want to see you again!

Joseph: That's fine by me, you never let me be the father to begin with so what's the difference???

Joseph storms out and slams the cloth door.

Mary sits alone weeping.

She picks up, the crying jesus.

Mary: (to jesus) you so better be worth it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. No child is "illegitimate" except in the eyes of hard-hearted people.

[FarCenter]

40. Of course Joseph was really the father according to Mathew 1:1-17

Matthew 1:1 says:

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The remainder of the verses go though the genealogy starting with Abraham and ending with Joseph.

This makes no sense unless Joseph supplied the sperm. Of course, that is possible without there having been actual penetration, so Mary may still have technically been a virgin with an intact hymen.

[deutsey]

46. Interestingly, the genealogy mentions three women who wouldn't

have been seen as "pure":

Rahab used to be a prostitute, Ruth was an outsider to Judaism (a Moabite), and Bathsheba, of course, has adultery with King David.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. Whatever you do:

(Don't miss my Christmas column next week, titled "Away with the manger," about how the feds are whitewashing America's Judeo-Christian heritage via a progressive, politically correct and pro-Muslim platform.)

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