COMPROMISE is not the same as CAPITULATION.

[bertman]

Someone needs to explain the difference to President Obama and the Democratic leadership.

[polichick]

1. They are at risk of losing any semblance of credibility or respect...

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. That's what Obama is doing - over and over again.

[Winterblues]

2. Compromise entails both sides giving something

Unless you consider a steadfast NO on every single issue a Compromise I don't think the word even enters the equation..

[bertman]

5. Of course you're correct, Winterblues. My post relates to the words I keep hearing come from

Democratic Senators and Congresscritters who say that we cannot have everything that we want in one fell swoop, so we have to compromise in order to get SOMETHING that we can build on. But what I see is NOT compromise. It is capitulation. Sadly, our starting position on healthcare reform left us almost no room to manuever (compromise) and get something worthwhile.

Now, I'm getting sick watching these Democratic elected representatives try to explain what a wonderful OPPORTUNITY this is to do something to reform healthcare. Boy am I glad I have health insurance. Cause I'm feeling sicker by the day.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Says the guy who wants to capitulate with Republicans and kill the bill.

Irony, thy name is bertman.

[bertman]

6. Thank you, HighFruc. Coming from you I consider that high praise. (Sarcasm thingy.)

Capitulation has already been done by our Dems. Killing this bill will be a mercy killing. Then we'll be able to work for real reform.

[tekisui]

4. knr.

[Popular Front]

7. Someone needs to explain it to those who want to destroy the bill

We worked hard to get this bill through. We need health care reform now!

[bertman]

8. The bill is already destroyed as far as reform is concerned. It's now a shell and a pale shadow of

what we need.

Of course, if you're referring to healthcare reform that further enriches and strengthens Insurance companies, well this will do just fine.

[Popular Front]

9. Why would Obama support a bill that enriches the insurance companies?

Were you asleep during the campaign?

[tekisui]

10. It isn't the campaign anymore.

Wake up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. And why would all the insurance companies, Republicans still oppose it?

The people who want to help the insurance companies and Republicans are the ones who want to kill the bill.

[Popular Front]

12. Bingo. If you want to stand up to the insurance companies, vote FOR the bill

Period.

[Duende azul]

29. Because they can leave the dems holding the bag for all the shit. A win win for them.

And hell, why should they not oppose an opponent who compromises continuously to their side without even wanting them to sign a contract and take responsibility?
It's much like the bailout.
They'd be fools if they just didn't lean back and watch the democratic meltdown unfold.

I guess even they can't believe what's happening. They get more than expected.

And with the mandate they get delivered a poisonous talkingpoint for 2010 for free.
Again why should they stop opposing it?

[WeDidIt]

14. Because he wants ANY bill he can call "Health Care Reform"

to check a box next to and proclaim himself great for having gotten it done.

[Popular Front]

16. Nonsense

Have you read Dreams For my Father? Obama is fighting for us.

[WeDidIt]

17. I've read it

I see precisely zero evidence that Obama is "fighting for us".

Nope, he's fighting for the health insurance comapnies and pharmaceutical companies.

[Popular Front]

18. Tinfoil hat much? n/t

[EFerrari]

25. You have no idea what is in this bill, do you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Actually, this is the hole reason some "DUers" are so upset.

A modest HCR bill would be a modest political victory for Obama.

And the thought of a modest political victory for Obama has some people so upset they'd screw over the millions of people this modest reform would help.

[ljm2002]

21. We do need health care reform now...

...but we won't get it with the bill that is coming out of the Senate.

[Popular Front]

22. Prove it n/t

[Selatius]

24. There's no strong cost containment or a robust public option.

Without those two, any bill that does pass will simply cripple an economy already in a deep recession. People will have their health care; this much is true, but they will lack money for anything else, and that will drag the economy down.

[ljm2002]

26. Ha ha ha, great reply!

No, seriously, you are killing me with your superior logic here.

Health care reform would ensure that all Americans can receive necessary health care. The proposed bill has very, very minimal cost controls. The 85% rule that states insurance companies must pay out that much of their premiums on health care is an incentive for them to charge more for their policies. The plans that most of the newly insured will receive, will have deductibles and co-pays that price lots of them out of receiving any actual health care anyway. The deal with big pharma was a sham, since they have already raised prices enough to make up for their promises to Obama on that score, and the bill forbids drug re-importation among other things. The bill forbids states from trying single payer on their own if they want to.

Finally, with the demise of any public option or a slightly enlarged pool of people who can buy into Medicare, people are forced to buy their insurance from the private corporations who have screwed us all over so royally up until now.

No, what is being proposed is not real reform. It is a sham and deserves to die. I am truly sorry to have come to that position. But that is how I see it.

[Popular Front]

27. I see what you're saying

I don't know whether I believe it. If what you say is true, then our situation is completely hopeless.

[ljm2002]

28. Please look it up...

...I have been following this pretty closely as things develop, but I don't have links I can give you unfortunately.

However, all of the issues I mentioned are well known. I was prepared to support it while holding my nose, as long as it included some form of a public option. Then that was scrapped for the slightly expanded Medicare buy-in, and I was still willing to support it while holding my nose tighter. Now that it has neither of those options? No, I will not support a bill that mandates people must buy a substandard product from a rapacious industry that is bankrupting people and dancing on their graves. HELL NO!

We're already in a health care crisis. Putting mandates on people -- even with subsidies -- is a stupid idea. Especially when the product is substandard, and many of the newly insured will not actually receive medical care even while they are paying out $$ for coverage. Even more especially when the enforcement mechanism is the IRS. It's stupid both practically, and politically. The Republicans will have a field day if this stinker passes.

[WeDidIt]

13. Correct, Compromise GOES BOTH WAYS!

Capitulation is giving in to the demands of your opponent WITH NOTHING IN RETURN.

[Vinca]

15. You are exactly right! Name one conservative compromise in this bill.

There are none. We gave them single-payer before they even asked for it. Then we gave up the public option. Then expanded Medicare. I expect Nelson's abortion amendment will weaken the whole mess even more. I'm with Dr. Dean at this point.

[ljm2002]

19. You are so right!

All we have seen in this health care reform debacle, is capitulation to the right by the Democratic party and the President.

Pathetic, infuriating, and not in the interests of the American people.

[EFerrari]

23. They've exchanged the big tent for the big cave-in. n/t