Progressives!!! The "Critical Path" to passing ANY real Progressive reforms...

[MNDemNY]

goes first through CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM !!Kill this dog of a HCR bill and start over! First you take Manhattan, THEN you take Berlin!

[elleng]

1. Won't happen, not in any significant way.

[MNDemNY]

2. There is no other path.

The one we are now heading down solidifies the corporate hold on this country. Seemingly with the blessing and support of this White House.

[elleng]

5. You're right.

I doubt that it will happen. Think this health care fight is hard?

[kctim]

3. So, giving progressive candidates

the same amount of money will cause me to vote for the progressive over the moderate? Seriously?

[MNDemNY]

4. Nope, but it will take away the incentive to vote "the dollars"

(You seem to have a very limited concept of Campaign Finance Reform.)

[kctim]

12. Na, I understand it just fine

I just don't see any validity in claiming somebody is voting for "the dollars" instead of their constituents for a lack of it. IF they are, then its their constituents who need to hold them accountable and that ain't happening. Do you really believe that people will all of a sudden start wanting something like single-payer simply because of CFR? And that the ONLY reason those reps are voting against it is because of "the dollars?" Its possible, but I guess we won't know until the election results.
IF they are re-elected, then their people are happy with their position on it and believe they were voting for them rather than "the dollars."

[hfojvt]

13. except that people get re-elected with dollars

It's dollars that buy TV ads. With TV ads, I can slickly package myself as honest and brave and compassionate and intelligent and hard-working, and then I can contrast that against my opponent, who is corrupt and cowardly and heartless and stupid and lazy. Plus you can do other things with dollars - make flyers that you can mass mail. Make signs for all the yards so it looks like everybody is voting for you. Hire people to go door to door and talk about how great you are. Travel all over the district and have catered events and schmmoze with voters. All of those things take dollars and the candidate with more dollars can do that better.

Not to mention that an incumbent typically starts with much better name recognition than any challenger. Everybody already knows Senator X and many people have never heard of challenger Y.

[MNDemNY]

14. No, you don't, at all.

It is more than "everyone getting the same amount of money" It takes the corporate money out of the equation, If you think that politicians, both Rs and Ds are not beholden to the corporate money that finances them, then you are out of touch with reality. If you think that the millions of dollars spent by big business has no effect on elections or re-elections then you are foolish. If the corporate money where gone, the corporate leverage would be as well. :think:

[kctim]

15. Afraid I do

which is why I asked if you thought the only reason they voted against it was because of "the dollars," meaning lobbyists.

Look, I have no problem with some sort of CFR and I am not naive enough to believe that some politicians are not beholden to corporate interest. But to say that all will be fixed and the people will start voting how you think they should, simply because of CFR, is not true. Most people will vote for what they believe in and if that is for less govt in their lives, no amount is going to change their minds, no matter how much you tell them it is what you think is best for them.

We need to get corporate money out of there because of the perks it buys, not because we think voters are too stupid to think for themselves.

[MNDemNY]

16. naive.

[Cleita]

6. And election reform.

Publicly financed campaigns and instant run-off voting would lessen the corruption rampant with our elected representatives. We have to start at a local level to do it though and make it go viral. Some small start has been made in this country. We have to build on it nationwide.

[maglatinavi]

7. kill the bill

... and start with the right foot in front ....:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[MNDemNY]

10. Correct.

[librechik]

8. agree--but prepare yourself for a fight that makes this one look like a pillow fight

at the marshmallow factory.

[MNDemNY]

9. But it would be a fight worth fighting.

This has degenerated into a joke. The developed world laughs at us.

[librechik]

11. I'm there, and sharpening my incisors for the task.

BRANG IT ON!!!